Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Halfway There Report Card 2017-18: Coach's Edition

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9

    Halfway There Report Card 2017-18: Coach's Edition

    Since I don't see a Report Card for this guy, I figure we can do this one by committee and have some fun with it.

    I'll start it off and give my opinion thus far. Now I'm not sure if you guys have figured out that I can't stand this guy being behind the bench, but I'm going to be as fair as I can be with my own personal assessment. Here goes:

    D+

    He's fantastic with the media; They seem to love this guy. He's kind, considerate and answers all their questions with a smile, a giggle and he is very entertaining to listen to....if you're a reporter I suppose. He also dresses very nice, but I guess when you have the contract extension they gave him last year, you can go with that type garb a lot easier.

    After that it goes off a cliff for me;

    I see the guy as very poor at matching lines; as a matter of fact I have yet to see him be able to get the correct or more favorable matchups, even with the last change at home games.
    The team has a lack of discipline, and takes too many stupid penalties.
    There is no set STYLE of play; all 3 forwards flying the zone looking for a breakaway is not a style.
    NO SHOTS - You cannot score if you don't shoot the puck! If 3 passes in a row fail we have no backup plan, do we?
    Our puck support in the defensive zone is for shit. Very little to no support from the unit of 5. (See below)
    Defensive & Neutral zone turnovers are at an all time high....again...not as much a player issue in my opinion.

    I can go for days on this guy...I wanna be fair but I can't. This team cannot win a championship with this guy back there. In my eyes, he's too soft, and he seems to have no concept of how to win a playoff series. I've watched him back there for too long now, and it's time for a change. You can have that "Power play mastermind" Scott Arniel as well. Our PP has basically sucked a moose's ass. ...Fucking team NEVER SHOOTS THE PUCK!!! EVER!!

    This head coach should be in the front office doing seminar's on clothing, and charity work with the community. He looks to be a a nice guy, but I think he has a better idea of how to install batteries into a vibrator better than handle a hockey team's playoff hopes. He's won an impressive amount of regular season games too!!! Which leads someone to believe that this guy is one of the best in the business...

    Not the case, Kids!

    My opinion: This team will never win a championship with this guy at the helm.....and it's not ALL the player's fault.

    Have at it gang! Let's see whatcha got!

  2. #2
    List Maker BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    22,566
    Rep Power
    198
    B

    Team is worse on paper:
    Zibenajad the number 1 C, no C depth
    Shattenkirk added to defense - weakens defensive corps, subtracting of Girardi means less stability in their own end as well. Re-signing Smith, as I mentioned over the summer, was a mistake.


    Much better coaches are doing much worse with much more.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bantam Division Bugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,870
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Since I don't see a Report Card for this guy, I figure we can do this one by committee and have some fun with it.

    I'll start it off and give my opinion thus far. Now I'm not sure if you guys have figured out that I can't stand this guy being behind the bench, but I'm going to be as fair as I can be with my own personal assessment. Here goes:

    D+

    He's fantastic with the media; They seem to love this guy. He's kind, considerate and answers all their questions with a smile, a giggle and he is very entertaining to listen to....if you're a reporter I suppose. He also dresses very nice, but I guess when you have the contract extension they gave him last year, you can go with that type garb a lot easier.

    After that it goes off a cliff for me;

    I see the guy as very poor at matching lines; as a matter of fact I have yet to see him be able to get the correct or more favorable matchups, even with the last change at home games.
    The team has a lack of discipline, and takes too many stupid penalties.
    There is no set STYLE of play; all 3 forwards flying the zone looking for a breakaway is not a style.
    NO SHOTS - You cannot score if you don't shoot the puck! If 3 passes in a row fail we have no backup plan, do we?
    Our puck support in the defensive zone is for shit. Very little to no support from the unit of 5. (See below)
    Defensive & Neutral zone turnovers are at an all time high....again...not as much a player issue in my opinion.

    I can go for days on this guy...I wanna be fair but I can't. This team cannot win a championship with this guy back there. In my eyes, he's too soft, and he seems to have no concept of how to win a playoff series. I've watched him back there for too long now, and it's time for a change. You can have that "Power play mastermind" Scott Arniel as well. Our PP has basically sucked a moose's ass. ...Fucking team NEVER SHOOTS THE PUCK!!! EVER!!

    This head coach should be in the front office doing seminar's on clothing, and charity work with the community. He looks to be a a nice guy, but I think he has a better idea of how to install batteries into a vibrator better than handle a hockey team's playoff hopes. He's won an impressive amount of regular season games too!!! Which leads someone to believe that this guy is one of the best in the business...

    Not the case, Kids!

    My opinion: This team will never win a championship with this guy at the helm.....and it's not ALL the player's fault.

    Have at it gang! Let's see whatcha got!
    If they don't gain the zone with a decent break in, they aren't going near the net. It's as if dump&chase is beneath them. On the occasions they do gain the zone, the overpassing is infuriating. Either somebody is telling them to do all that looking for the perfect shot nonsense, or the coach is not telling them to shoot and get to the net. Either way the coach is at fault for that.

    There is no Plan B. Offense goes dead until they get desperate. I understand Buch may be a bit of a defensive liability, but sometimes with offensive talent you have to let it go because the tradeoff is more than worth it. With Kreider out, do not understand that move at all.

    For all the supposed concern about defense, the NYR are arguably the least physical team in their own zone I have ever seen. Not looking for Dave Shultz and Nick Fotiu, for f__'s sake, put a body on a opposing forward. One game vs. EDM they did a very good job on Conor McDavid, but otherwise it's like 5 road cones to get around before you get to Lundqvist's doorstep.

    The record right now is a function of superior goaltending. Lundqvist loves it here. But I wonder if they is going to poop at the deadline if there's a voice in the back of his head that might welcome a trade. The 5 guys i f o him night after night don't seem to care nearly as much as him. Not sure if that's a roster issue, but know damn sure AV is not going to get a Mike Keenan personality kit at Amazon. Was in Vegas the other night, They get up 1 goal and then...nothing. One team wanted it a lot more and was willing to push it, one was not, more inclined to take their time, dump and change, leave it for the next unit. And that's been a lot of losses in the AV Era. Not sure if AV doesn't have a screamer gear, but at this point, they've heard everything he has to say anyway. It's time to move on.

    C-and may be only because Allaire is on the staff.

  4. #4
    List Maker BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    22,566
    Rep Power
    198
    According to stats per team, shots on goal (and shots against) do not have a direct correlation with goals or wins.
    Quality shots are more important. We have Nash snakebitten, Grabner cant score on breakaways, Hayes wont shoot the puck when he's got a wide open net, and everyone else would rather pass it 2 more times before taking a shot. Those are huge factors that could be the difference of a goal a game. These are on-ice decisions made by the players, not the coach.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Junior Division
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    9,674
    Rep Power
    70
    C

    They're mediocre. Everything about them is mediocre (everything but goaltending, which if we're honest, might earn AV a different grade if they had a league average goalie in net).

    Here's how I see it:

    Style of play has not changed since 2014 even though the player personnel has - They are no longer the quickest team in the league and yet they play the style of one. Odd man rushes are basically the only way this team creates offense. It didn't work in 2014 when they were known for speed - it certainly doesn't now when they have one "fast" player in 30yo Michael Grabner. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And that's exactly why they're in the position they're in. Middle of the pack.

    Soft - Yes, the NHL has changed. The Broad Street Bullies have died out. But my god, how many times do I have to see a player reach for the puck with his stick rather than take the body? I don't even need a bone crunching hit, I'd just want some god damn contact to get puck separation. I don't need goons or even fighting on a regular basis but fuck me it would be nice to see someone other than Mats Zuccarello standing up to someone after a whistle. They're soft as baby shit and have only gotten softer year after year.

    Point production - Yes, this team isn't the most talented group of men ever assembled but take a look at this:

    NASH - 42 - 9 8 17
    HAYES - 42 - 9 8 17
    VESEY - 42 - 9 - 7 - 16

    This group of forwards is supposed to be the second line or at least the "depth" of the team. Not a single one of them is hitting .5 PPG. This includes PP time for some of them. Rick Nash - arguably the most skilled forward on the team has less than 20 points on the year.... what in the fuck is that?

    BUCHNEVICH - 41 - 11 15 26 - Was just benched for a game and has seen his ice time cut in-game multiple times. Yet, he's still 3rd on the team in points!

    ZUCCARELLO - 41 - 8 23 31 - leads the team in points with 31. THIRTY ONE!

    I'm not saying it's AV's job to put the puck in the net, but it's certainly his job to get the most out of his players, which I argue, he does not. Sometimes they play well. Yes. But sometimes puts you in the wildcard or worse.

    Slow Starts - plain and simple, the team comes out of the gate slow more nights than not. Simply put, that's a coaching issue.


    In summary, the team is okay. They're not good. They're not shit. To me that's quite possibly the worst thing you can be in today's NHL. Was it not for Hank and Pavelec over the last three weeks, this team might be outside the playoff picture.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    According to stats per team, shots on goal (and shots against) do not have a direct correlation with goals or wins.
    Quality shots are more important. We have Nash snakebitten, Grabner cant score on breakaways, Hayes wont shoot the puck when he's got a wide open net, and everyone else would rather pass it 2 more times before taking a shot. Those are huge factors that could be the difference of a goal a game. These are on-ice decisions made by the players, not the coach.
    When the coach says "shoot it or you're gonna sit", you shoot it! When the coach says, "If you're not going to play 60 minutes, I'll find someone that will", you come out flying like you have a rocket up your ass!!! LOL

    Josh, I think a lot of this stems from the lack of "coaching" and/or discipline from the staff. I hear what you're saying as to on-ice decisions, but I believe those decisions are influenced...or not....by what's going on behind the bench.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,374
    Rep Power
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    When the coach says "shoot it or you're gonna sit", you shoot it! When the coach says, "If you're not going to play 60 minutes, I'll find someone that will", you come out flying like you have a rocket up your ass!!! LOL

    Josh, I think a lot of this stems from the lack of "coaching" and/or discipline from the staff. I hear what you're saying as to on-ice decisions, but I believe those decisions are influenced...or not....by what's going on behind the bench.
    But he has. Guys have been stapled to the bench or put in the press box. That only goes so far. He can't bench everyone, and there are only so many players at his disposal. He allso has to try to win games. Cant ice an AHL team.

  8. #8
    List Maker BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    22,566
    Rep Power
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    When the coach says "shoot it or you're gonna sit", you shoot it! When the coach says, "If you're not going to play 60 minutes, I'll find someone that will", you come out flying like you have a rocket up your ass!!! LOL

    Josh, I think a lot of this stems from the lack of "coaching" and/or discipline from the staff. I hear what you're saying as to on-ice decisions, but I believe those decisions are influenced...or not....by what's going on behind the bench.
    When the coach does this, fans bitch and complain.

    He does do this... fans think he's targeting kids, or guys because of their contract.
    Zuccarello, Hayes, Nash, Buchnevich, Miller, Kreider, Zibenajad etc have all been moved down the lineup due to play you mentioned.

  9. #9
    I feel sorry for the earth's population BSBH Prospect
    AmericanJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19,523
    Rep Power
    328
    If you think they're not told to pass up low danger shot attempts in favor of trying to create higher danger shot attempts, I'm not sure what team you're watching. Sometimes that'll mean a play doesn't get executed, other times it might mean a player passes up what turns out to have been a high danger shot attempt because they didn't recognize it as such. That's the main reason why winning teams under AV have poor possession metrics.

    None of that's a problem. AV's a really good offensive strategy coach. He's lacking in player usage, although he's not terrible there. Just average. His biggest weakness is in game adjustment. He'll make changes, but they often seem like changes to make changes, not because he recognizes a weakness of the other team that he can exploit or because a team is exploiting a Rangers' weakness and he needs to counter (see Playoffs - Staal, Marc and Holden, Nick).

    So he'll shuffle lines and every once in a while that will turn a game, but it's not, at least from what I've seen, because he thinks a different combination could target or prevent something. It's just "this isn't working, let's try something else instead". These recongitions usually come late, too. He'll wait until the 3rd period to make changes unless the team is not just getting outplayed significantly, but also his goaltending hasn't been able to make up for it.

    All in all, AV's a B- coach. His system works very well when there's some offensive talent and elite goaltending. Problem is when he really faces off against the best coaches/teams in the league, it's never going to be enough. AV doesn't take a good team and make them great, he takes a great team and makes them very good.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    If you think they're not told to pass up low danger shot attempts in favor of trying to create higher danger shot attempts, I'm not sure what team you're watching. Sometimes that'll mean a play doesn't get executed, other times it might mean a player passes up what turns out to have been a high danger shot attempt because they didn't recognize it as such. That's the main reason why winning teams under AV have poor possession metrics.

    None of that's a problem. AV's a really good offensive strategy coach. He's lacking in player usage, although he's not terrible there. Just average. His biggest weakness is in game adjustment. He'll make changes, but they often seem like changes to make changes, not because he recognizes a weakness of the other team that he can exploit or because a team is exploiting a Rangers' weakness and he needs to counter (see Playoffs - Staal, Marc and Holden, Nick).

    So he'll shuffle lines and every once in a while that will turn a game, but it's not, at least from what I've seen, because he thinks a different combination could target or prevent something. It's just "this isn't working, let's try something else instead". These recongitions usually come late, too. He'll wait until the 3rd period to make changes unless the team is not just getting outplayed significantly, but also his goaltending hasn't been able to make up for it.

    All in all, AV's a B- coach. His system works very well when there's some offensive talent and elite goaltending. Problem is when he really faces off against the best coaches/teams in the league, it's never going to be enough. AV doesn't take a good team and make them great, he takes a great team and makes them very good.
    This right here is probably the best analysis of him I've seen! I think this sums up what I'm trying to get at in my own personal stand point on his way of coaching this team.

    I was absolutely FURIOUS with this team when they gave him that extension, because in my mind, this team will never win with him behind the bench. He simply gets out-coached all too often, especially when it counts.

    He seemingly just throws shit at the wall with his "adjustments", like you're referring to, Jesus. Overall I love that post! It's not knocking him like I did, it's very fair....accurate too.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division 4EverRangerFrank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    772
    Rep Power
    10

    Halfway There Report Card 2017-18: Coach's Edition

    AmericanJesus - "All in all, AV's a B- coach. His system works very well when there's some offensive talent and elite goaltending. Problem is when he really faces off against the best coaches/teams in the league, it's never going to be enough. AV doesn't take a good team and make them great, he takes a great team and makes them very good."

    This is the summary right here! AV deserves a "A" ofr how well he excels at THAT skill.

    C for overall performance and lack of in-game adjustment...which is a huge part of successful coaching in a parity league.
    Last edited by 4EverRangerFrank; 01-18-2018 at 03:41 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9
    ....and then we get a game like last night's.

    So my question is, "where is this all season?"

    I know teams go through ups and downs, and have streaks and slumps along the way, but seriously....Have we ever seen a team that is more Jekyll and Hyde than this....EVER? I don't remember one. The fact remains that this team is not a bad team. I think it surely has the parts to compete in the playoffs this year, and like Future and a few of you guys have stated that as long as you get in the playoffs, your chances are as good as anybody.

    That very well may be true in most cases. The fact is that it's starting to become very apparent to me that this team simply either doesn't like, or doesn't want to play for this guy anymore. Hank is becoming visibly aggravated as well, and that's not like him at all. I'm wondering if he's pissed at the team, or the coaching. I think it's been the coaching and to me, this team has no chance with this guy behind the bench. None! But that's me.

    Either way, I still feel there is no better year to take advantage of the upcoming draft and our opportunity to "re-vamp" or "re-tool" this team with some youth, talent and high draft picks. Not to mention make a change at the top and bring in coach(s) (not sure who yet) to take this young core of players and build them into a hard working, tough, disciplined championship team. I don't think we've ever had a chance as good as this year to do so. We have a lot of UFA players that have very good value, and also some players that can and should be moved while we can still get a good return for.

    Again, I'm not saying to tank the season, but seriously; In a year where I could bet my sack that this team will not win a cup, why not re-vamp this squad for the next 4-5 years and bring in not only some powerful youth, but get a guy behind the bench with a pair of balls and the experience that can bring us a championship.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,617
    Rep Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    If you think they're not told to pass up low danger shot attempts in favor of trying to create higher danger shot attempts, I'm not sure what team you're watching. Sometimes that'll mean a play doesn't get executed, other times it might mean a player passes up what turns out to have been a high danger shot attempt because they didn't recognize it as such. That's the main reason why winning teams under AV have poor possession metrics.

    None of that's a problem. AV's a really good offensive strategy coach. He's lacking in player usage, although he's not terrible there. Just average. His biggest weakness is in game adjustment. He'll make changes, but they often seem like changes to make changes, not because he recognizes a weakness of the other team that he can exploit or because a team is exploiting a Rangers' weakness and he needs to counter (see Playoffs - Staal, Marc and Holden, Nick).

    So he'll shuffle lines and every once in a while that will turn a game, but it's not, at least from what I've seen, because he thinks a different combination could target or prevent something. It's just "this isn't working, let's try something else instead". These recongitions usually come late, too. He'll wait until the 3rd period to make changes unless the team is not just getting outplayed significantly, but also his goaltending hasn't been able to make up for it.

    All in all, AV's a B- coach. His system works very well when there's some offensive talent and elite goaltending. Problem is when he really faces off against the best coaches/teams in the league, it's never going to be enough. AV doesn't take a good team and make them great, he takes a great team and makes them very good.
    Extremely good and accurate analysis on so many points, and well said. 31 makes some reasonable points too.

    I was going to give AV an incomplete. Here's why. The only thing that matters at this point is the playoffs, one of the reasons why AJ's post is so spot on. When it comes to playing the best teams, the hottest teams, the top coaches... can AV make the Rangers compete and win in 2018? In 2019? I have my doubts for all the reasons already expressed. He does not get the edge enough, in what is a ridiculously competitive environment. His personnel decisions are maddening. He utilizes incongruent tactics that conflict each other or with his preached strategy. He is slow to adjust and lowers our statistical chances to exceed performance goals. He does not bring out the best results from young players or new pieces.

    So, INCOMPLETE. He must get us to outperform in the playoffs. Win at least 2 rounds and go down fighting if we do get eliminated. Upon elimination we should be talking about puck luck or the officiating not personnel or awful matchup decisions. If he can't get us to the tourney... well that is an outright F.

    F for fired.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9
    I don't know what it is about that guy, but I just had it out for him for a long time. I don't like his inabilities and his choice to sit players who are undeserving. There's a lot I don't like about him being back there....mostly the fact that he's gagged in the playoffs consistently with very good teams.

    I'm not even a big Torterella guy! I wasn't a huge fan of the hard-fisted, in-your-face coach he was, but at least it seemed the team left it all out there every game with him at the helm, in my opinion.

    That raises the question: Who actually could be, or is available to take this group to the next level; assuming they make some deadline trades and/or add these new players and young talent through the draft?

  15. #15
    List Maker BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    22,566
    Rep Power
    198
    Ruff or Byslma
    Neither has a history of being a players coach.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,617
    Rep Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Ruff or Byslma
    Neither has a history of being a players coach.
    Hard pass.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division 4EverRangerFrank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    772
    Rep Power
    10
    First off Oz, don’t bet your sack on anything. You need that! Geezus man...

    A combination of Torts and AV would be ideal but they are water and oil IMO.

    The lack of in-game adjustments has run its course. AV needs to be shown 7th Ave and told to turn right and keep walking.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Suffolk County, NY
    Posts
    159
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    First off Oz, don’t bet your sack on anything. You need that! Geezus man...

    A combination of Torts and AV would be ideal but they are water and oil IMO.

    The lack of in-game adjustments has run its course. AV needs to be shown 7th Ave and told to turn right and keep walking.
    He looks old back there these days!! Hair's getting really gray coaching this bunch!

    I hear AV is so old, when he was a kid, the rainbow was in black and white!!!! =)

    Hey I spoke to Larry today and I'm getting him to join up here as well!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Bantam Division paddynyc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bronx, New York
    Posts
    1,879
    Rep Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    He looks old back there these days!! Hair's getting really gray coaching this bunch!

    I hear AV is so old, when he was a kid, the rainbow was in black and white!!!! =)

    Hey I spoke to Larry today and I'm getting him to join up here as well!
    Excellent Ozzy.
    "Meet me later in the gymnasium, next to the dumbbells... you'll know me, I got a hat on."
    Curly

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •