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Thread: Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

  1. #241
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    That much I agree with wholeheartedly. I've said it for years. Goalies CANNOT WIN YOU HOCKEY GAMES. They only keep you alive in ones you otherwise don't belong in long enough to steal a victory. That's not a worthwhile strategy for winning a Stanley Cup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    That much I agree with wholeheartedly. I've said it for years. Goalies CANNOT WIN YOU HOCKEY GAMES. They only keep you alive in ones you otherwise don't belong in long enough to steal a victory. That's not a worthwhile strategy for winning a Stanley Cup.
    Like I said, our generational talent plays the wrong position.

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    Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

    It's only a losing discussion for you because you're making declarative statements about a process you've only been on one side of (not being privy to when and why other members are infracted or warned or have their posts deleted).

    The fact of the matter is that I've removed countless posts and disciplined other users for going after you. You now crying foul over being disciplined yourself is rich.


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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Haha. Iím done. Another trade all our garbage for a top line center guy. All we need is you know a top line center and poof we are contenders. It hurts to try and rationalize with mentality. Iím arguing with somebody who lives in a fantasy world. Teams donít trade top line centers period. So zetterberg would be a fit. Havenít seen that before. Letís trade for a forty year old. Iím done discussing unicorns and Bigfoot.
    Good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Which do you think is of more value to the chance of the Rangers winning a Stanley Cup in the near future — holding onto UFAs like Grabner, Nash, etc. plus keeping McDonagh and Zuccarello, or "judiciously selling" among the group for a myriad of high-level prospects and first-round picks?
    If you're in the the playoffs you have to take the shot. Being in the playoffs is the only way you have a shot.

    The longest current playoff drought is Carolina. 8 years. Since they last made the playoffs they've drafted #7, 12, no 1st rounder (traded #8 pick for Jordan Staal), 5, 7, 5, 13 & 21, 12. That's 8 straight years of top 15 picks and they're still on the outside looking in. The next 2 longest droughts are Buffalo and Arizona. They have tons of high end prospects.

    Again I'm not against trading any and everyone, but only if the shit play continues and we fall out of the playoff race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Having a generational talent sure helps but having a good young core is essential to be a consistent contender. Chicago is more than Kane, and Pittsburgh is more than Crosby. The Rangers have a tendency to acquire the shiniest past-peak name, instead of building a young core. I'd advocate the approach Phil suggests.
    That's not at all true. If you look at the playoff stats of those teams, Kane/Toews and Crosby/Malkin and Kessel carry the load aided by vets, very few impact player in their early 20's on those teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    I said I'm not getting into a further discussion on this!
    Then why did you respond!?!?

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If you're in the the playoffs you have to take the shot. Being in the playoffs is the only way you have a shot.

    The longest current playoff drought is Carolina. 8 years. Since they last made the playoffs they've drafted #7, 12, no 1st rounder (traded #8 pick for Jordan Staal), 5, 7, 5, 13 & 21, 12. That's 8 straight years of top 15 picks and they're still on the outside looking in. The next 2 longest droughts are Buffalo and Arizona. They have tons of high end prospects.

    Again I'm not against trading any and everyone, but only if the shit play continues and we fall out of the playoff race.
    That doesn't answer my question, though. I'm not asking what the "right thing" to do is. I'm asking what you think it's a better strategy for Cup success.

    Let's use their current pace as a barometer. Assume they maintain this position, but the same level of play.

    Which, in your estimation, lends best to the Rangers' chance at winning a Cup Ė limping into a first-round matchup against the Lightning or Caps, or judiciously selling for a slew of high-end prospects and draft picks?


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  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    That's not at all true. If you look at the playoff stats of those teams, Kane/Toews and Crosby/Malkin and Kessel carry the load aided by vets, very few impact player in their early 20's on those teams.
    Now. Not in the recent past. The price they've paid for success is in having to trade away much of that talent to meet the Cap ceiling.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Which do you think is of more value to the chance of the Rangers winning a Stanley Cup in the near future — holding onto UFAs like Grabner, Nash, etc. plus keeping McDonagh and Zuccarello, or "judiciously selling" among the group for a myriad of high-level prospects and first-round picks?
    Havent we had a decent run of doing a little of everything?
    Some people are caught up on what they Rangers did years and years ago, but this team isnt run that way. Theyve traded for 1 player "past his prime", in E Staal, we didnt like the trade, but Staal actually had a huge bounceback season the next year. oops. Other than that, there havent been these massive trades for washed up guys. Nash put up 40, Smith everyone loves/d, Yandle was ok for more than a few months, Gaborik traded, Brassard traded to get younger and faster, Stepan moved to get younger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    That doesn't answer my question, though. I'm not asking what the "right thing" to do is. I'm asking what you think it's a better strategy for Cup success.

    Let's use their current pace as a barometer. Assume they maintain this position, but the same level of play.

    Which, in your estimation, lends best to the Rangers' chance at winning a Cup – limping into a first-round matchup against the Lightning or Caps, or judiciously selling for a slew of high-end prospects and draft picks?


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    trading our strengths to upgrade the team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    That's not at all true. If you look at the playoff stats of those teams, Kane/Toews and Crosby/Malkin and Kessel carry the load aided by vets, very few impact player in their early 20's on those teams.
    I agree. Best teams are top heavy teams, with great players. Young core dont mean shit unless you have game breaking talent.
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    Top heavy with a supporting cast of speed

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    Rangers don’t have those players I think we can all agree on that. It’s the starting point of this whole discussion. So how do they get those players? Draft picks and prospects seem the only way. Even if you were able to sign a ufa like Tavares his cap hit would require cheaper talent to fill out your roster and fit into the cap. Regardless holding onto nash and Grabner is great for this year but in the end doesn’t get you any close in the years to come.

    The only question is there a reasonable chance for a cup this year? If yes then keep them if no than trade them.

    We

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    That doesn't answer my question, though. I'm not asking what the "right thing" to do is. I'm asking what you think it's a better strategy for Cup success.

    Let's use their current pace as a barometer. Assume they maintain this position, but the same level of play.

    Which, in your estimation, lends best to the Rangers' chance at winning a Cup – limping into a first-round matchup against the Lightning or Caps, or judiciously selling for a slew of high-end prospects and draft picks?


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    We sit 4 points behind Columbus with 3 games in hand. Even without a drastic improvement, its not out of the realm of possibility we finish higher than a wild card. I don't know how else to say it. The best strategy for cup success is to play playoff games. If its the middle of February and we're still in a playoff spot you have to take the chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Rangers don’t have those players I think we can all agree on that. It’s the starting point of this whole discussion. So how do they get those players? Draft picks and prospects seem the only way. Even if you were able to sign a ufa like Tavares his cap hit would require cheaper talent to fill out your roster and fit into the cap. Regardless holding onto nash and Grabner is great for this year but in the end doesn’t get you any close in the years to come.

    The only question is there a reasonable chance for a cup this year? If yes then keep them if no than trade them.

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    Youre asking me if I'm going to marry this girl and we havent even gone on our first date, yet!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Rangers don’t have those players I think we can all agree on that. It’s the starting point of this whole discussion. So how do they get those players? Draft picks and prospects seem the only way. Even if you were able to sign a ufa like Tavares his cap hit would require cheaper talent to fill out your roster and fit into the cap. Regardless holding onto nash and Grabner is great for this year but in the end doesn’t get you any close in the years to come.

    The only question is there a reasonable chance for a cup this year? If yes then keep them if no than trade them.

    We
    The cup winning teams all have 1 or 2 "Tavares contracts", though. They usually have 4, then a bunch of 1m guys that fill in. We have too many middling forwards and defenders. Package those guys and upgrade
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  18. #258
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    The best players don't make the best teams. The best teams are made from the players who play their best together.

    Winning isn't easy. Winning consistently and being a contender as long as the Rangers have isn't easy or they wouldn't be the only team to miss the playoffs once since pre 04/05 lock out. The Rangers do what they feel is best to help the team win every year, not every organization does that. Now you can say it hasn't worked because there hasn't been a cup, but why would we want to mirror teams that have not only haven't won a cup, but haven't even been relevant for any amount of time?
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  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    We sit 4 points behind Columbus with 3 games in hand. Even without a drastic improvement, its not out of the realm of possibility we finish higher than a wild card. I don't know how else to say it. The best strategy for cup success is to play playoff games. If its the middle of February and we're still in a playoff spot you have to take the chance.
    I don't agree. The best strategy for Cup success is strong drafting. The only way to win the Cup is playing playoff games, but playing them when your chances of winning is very low, or at least not very high, isn't a strategy. It's hope.


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    Hoping your draft picks pan out is also hope.

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