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Thread: Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    No we do not agree. The goal is to get into the playoffs. Did anyone expect Ottawa to make it to double overtime in game 7 of the conference finals last year? Good thing they didn't give up in the middle of the season.

    You think the leafs should trade JVR and Bozak because Tampa is sooooo scary so they should give up too?
    TSN had an article about "own rental". Essentially treating these players as if they are a rental. Saying thats the best for the team, not trading them, then trading for deadline acquisitions.

  2. #182
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Big difference here is that the rangers did buy for the past couple of years Yandle, Staal, Smith. The rangers until this past draft didn’t have a first round pick for four or five straight years not to mention the seconds they traded as well. Hence their poor prospect base in which nobody seems relevant. The leafs for one are not in this same position. Matter of fact I don’t think there is another team in playoff position that has done the same thing the past couple of years. In my opinion the rangers don’t have the luxury of hoping for a run only because of what they have done in the recent past.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Big difference here is that the rangers did buy for the past couple of years Yandle, Staal, Smith. The rangers until this past draft didn’t have a first round pick for four or five straight years not to mention the seconds they traded as well. Hence their poor prospect base in which nobody seems relevant. The leafs for one are not in this same position. Matter of fact I don’t think there is another team in playoff position that has done the same thing the past couple of years. In my opinion the rangers don’t have the luxury of hoping for a run only because of what they have done in the recent past.
    There is not a single formula to winning the cup, or else everyone would do it.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Big difference here is that the rangers did buy for the past couple of years Yandle, Staal, Smith. The rangers until this past draft didnít have a first round pick for four or five straight years not to mention the seconds they traded as well. Hence their poor prospect base in which nobody seems relevant. The leafs for one are not in this same position. Matter of fact I donít think there is another team in playoff position that has done the same thing the past couple of years. In my opinion the rangers donít have the luxury of hoping for a run only because of what they have done in the recent past.
    Stop saying this. Everyone thinks its relevant. Nobody in the history of hockey has believed that you should sell your chances at a playoff run for a 50/50 shot (at best) at replenishing your prospect pool. You think the team sucks, which, fine, whatever. But stop trying to justify anything else.

    Washington traded for Oshie and Shattenkirk. Pitt traded for Schultz and Streit, and just dumped a first for Ryan Reaves. Not to mention Kessel. The Ducks and Wild both flipped firsts (Potentially) for vets at the deadline last year. That's not to mention the litany of picks and prospects that the Hawks, Kings, and Bruins have sent out during their Cup runs.

    And again, nobody is calling for the Rangers to sell young players and picks for rentals.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Big difference here is that the rangers did buy for the past couple of years Yandle, Staal, Smith. The rangers until this past draft didnít have a first round pick for four or five straight years not to mention the seconds they traded as well. Hence their poor prospect base in which nobody seems relevant. The leafs for one are not in this same position. Matter of fact I donít think there is another team in playoff position that has done the same thing the past couple of years. In my opinion the rangers donít have the luxury of hoping for a run only because of what they have done in the recent past.
    No, you're right. The Leafs aren't in the same position. While the Rangers have been in the playoffs, since 2008 the Leafs have had picks #1, 4, 5 (x2), 7, and 8 because they won the 6th fewest games in the league from 2007/8 to 2015/6. Thank god for Auston Matthews. Doesn't change the fact they, along with every other team in every single sport, won't trade pending UFA's while battling for a playoff position.

    All the teams with strong prospect pools have sucked for years, enabling them to draft high. Unfortunately for them, none have won a cup and most still suck because while their prospects are lighting up juniors most aren't translating to the NHL.

  6. #186
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    I could only imagine the Gorton and coach threads if this team was that bad for that long. OMG it would be awful. People would be jumping off of buildings.

    And then they'd start blaming the GM when every draft pick doesnt become Messier or Leetch.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick.

    The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago.
    Speaking of Chicago, anyone think Saad could be a good fit for the teams needs and budget as far as giving up assets? I'm pretty sure he can play center.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Who said that? If you are expecting that in keeping Nash and Grabner means you are contending you are dreaming. So then what? You guys want to stand pat in hopes of extending the season a week? They are probably gone maybe Grabner stays at a massive raise but weíll see. You give no thought in getting something for them when you will get a good return instead of losing them for nothing? There is no argument in that other than a misguided prayer that they will be key parts to a championship this year. Do you really think they have a good chance at winning?
    If you do trade them You are guaranteed to get a raise in your prospect pool. It doesnít mean they will be stars or anything. But it does give you assets in which you either try and develop or could flip down the line to improve your team. A first round draft pick this summer will keep their value for at least a couple of years. You never know what will become of 17-18 year old kids but being able to select as high as possible will give you a better chance. The more of those chances you have the better chance you have at hitting on something. You have scouts for a reason. You hire them because you think they can identify talent. For once let them do their jobs. The only guarantee here is by doing nothing you donít win a cup and your roster next year will be weaker and you cap situation in future years will be worse off than if you had traded them. Having cheap young talent is the best currency in this league now. Nobody can argue that that is not the case. Getting that kind of talent only comes from building a deep prospect pool. Having more high end picks gives you a better chance of developing that.
    Nobody is saying have a fire sale. The only thing being said is you need to trade the players who have high value who arenít going to be here anyway. They made this same mistake with Yandle. Everybody knew he was a goner but they held onto him for a false hope at glory. 5 predictable games later they were golfing and instead of getting a high return for him the rangers got a 5th round pick. That whole situation was insane and yet you guys are proposing the same thing now. That decision on Yandle is effecting this team this season. Maybe if the correct decision was made then this team would be better situated to actually do what you are proposing. Weíll never know. What we do know is that the rangers arenít getting closer to a cup each year with this team. You canít go for it every year.
    The thing that seems displaced here is that you claim it's a definite this team can't be a contender.

    IMO, I think they have as good a chance as any at this time. It's a season where it's really up in the air. There isn't any team that is standing out and looks unbeatable.

    This really all depends on how they are playing around the trade deadline. I'm not against trading Nash and Grabner or 80% of this roster if they don't look better and when the decision has to be made. I'd like to see a change at center for that 2nd line, if not a upgrade on the 1st line. I'm fine with dealing Miller, Hayes, Holden, and at this point Smith in any kind of package not including Skjei, Chytil or a first for said type of player.

    I think if they give up and deal Nash and Grabner, why not deal anything else of value that isn't an impact player?

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    You donít know that. So is chytil a shitty prospect because he was a Kate first round pick. How about Buchnevich is he horrible? Thatís just two. When was skeij picked? Do we really need to do this? The rangers arenít getting a generational talent for them no shit. But the just the rangers roster is loaded with guys picked mid to late in the first two rounds. Could we use another miller? Is that player enough to win them a cup, no. But they sure could use more of players of that caliber especially when a player of that caliber is making peanuts for three years.

    You guys just canít wait the two or three years for that player to be here at the expense of a week longer season today. Thatís fine but
    Yeah let's have a team full of Miller's. That 1 goal in the playoffs is a definite way to go about winning. You're not winning shit with a ton of mediocre home growns. You are seriously down playing the role a player like Nash has on this team.

  10. #190
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    Columbus lost yet again. Let's still throw in towel though.

    #pessimistforever

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  11. #191
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Yeah let's have a team full of Miller's. That 1 goal in the playoffs is a definite way to go about winning. You're not winning shit with a ton of mediocre home growns. You are seriously down playing the role a player like Nash has on this team.
    My point was not that but that Miller was not a high first round pick and neither was skeij. While neither are generational talents both are very nice players.
    Nash has 17 points in 42 games right now. He’s down playing his own role

  12. #192
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Columbus lost yet again. Let's still throw in towel though.

    #pessimistforever

    Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile...ed by Tapatalk
    No I take everything back. Of course now that Columbus lost last night the cup is ours.

  13. #193
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    The thing that seems displaced here is that you claim it's a definite this team can't be a contender.

    IMO, I think they have as good a chance as any at this time. It's a season where it's really up in the air. There isn't any team that is standing out and looks unbeatable.

    This really all depends on how they are playing around the trade deadline. I'm not against trading Nash and Grabner or 80% of this roster if they don't look better and when the decision has to be made. I'd like to see a change at center for that 2nd line, if not a upgrade on the 1st line. I'm fine with dealing Miller, Hayes, Holden, and at this point Smith in any kind of package not including Skjei, Chytil or a first for said type of player.

    I think if they give up and deal Nash and Grabner, why not deal anything else of value that isn't an impact player?
    They aren’t a contender. If you really can’t see why or are purposely looking away as to why then that’s ok. I also believe in everyone hearts of hearts her at least those who know what they are watching don’t believe this team can win without an absolute miracle. They just don’t like reading it.
    The problem with what you want to add is that how are you adding those kinds of players? A second line center, who? At what cost? A top line player? Again more of the same. They aren’t available and if they are there is going to be a bidding war and again which has already been discussed. The rangers really don’t have a surplus of “worthless” prospects in which to deal from.
    Trading Holden or Smith is taking out your garbage you pay people to pick up your garbage.
    So here are the rangers sitting here with two players that will be two of the top trade deadline targets. They will fetch a great return for all the reasons people on here don’t want to deal them. They are ufas at seasons end.

    Columbus lost last night do never mind get the parade going already
    Last edited by Fatfrancesa; 01-13-2018 at 05:14 AM.

  14. #194
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    Jack Johnson requested a trade, hmmmmmmm. Nash for Johnson?!?!?!


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  15. #195
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    Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

    The Rangers have 1 regulation win in their last 10 and we are hanging our hats on a Columbus lost. This team has a very long way to go if they want to be a true contender. Thereís a reason most predicted them to be a fringe playoff team.

  16. #196
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    For those who say they can’t make these trades. The rangers traded their number 1 center for two “ worthless” prospects just this summer. I agreed with trading Stepan. Point is even the rangers know that they had to restock and that their cap was untenable. They got relief and two prospects. Two unknowns to a team with the same designs then as they do now. Thankfully Gorton was able to use his brain. Here’s hoping he does again

    “Rebuild on the fly”. Would there be a better example than to trade two expiring contracts?
    Last edited by Fatfrancesa; 01-13-2018 at 08:38 AM.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    For those who say they can’t make these trades. The rangers traded their number 1 center for two “ worthless” prospects just this summer. I agreed with trading Stepan. Point is even the rangers know that they had to restock and that their cap was untenable. They got relief and two prospects. Two unknowns to a team with the same designs then as they do now. Thankfully Gorton was able to use his brain. Here’s hoping he does again

    “Rebuild on the fly”. Would there be a better example than to trade two expiring contracts?
    maybe they traded 2 worthless players

    Stepan was moved to clear room for free agent contracts.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    My point was not that but that Miller was not a high first round pick and neither was skeij. While neither are generational talents both are very nice players.
    Nash has 17 points in 42 games right now. He’s down playing his own role
    Nash is busting his fucking ass and draws a lot of attention out there, yet is still getting chances and being denied. Very snake bitten. He's been a lil down lately, but hopefully this time off gave him some energy. The guy is in a contract year. Something tells me he's going to have a crazy second half. Dude is fuckin due. Flood gates are going to open.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    They aren’t a contender. If you really can’t see why or are purposely looking away as to why then that’s ok. I also believe in everyone hearts of hearts her at least those who know what they are watching don’t believe this team can win without an absolute miracle. They just don’t like reading it.
    The problem with what you want to add is that how are you adding those kinds of players? A second line center, who? At what cost? A top line player? Again more of the same. They aren’t available and if they are there is going to be a bidding war and again which has already been discussed. The rangers really don’t have a surplus of “worthless” prospects in which to deal from.
    Trading Holden or Smith is taking out your garbage you pay people to pick up your garbage.
    So here are the rangers sitting here with two players that will be two of the top trade deadline targets. They will fetch a great return for all the reasons people on here don’t want to deal them. They are ufas at seasons end.

    Columbus lost last night do never mind get the parade going already
    How are they NOT a contender? I'm watching the team. They have been up and down, and when they are up they look like a team that can beat anyone. They aren't without fault. They need help to be some kind of juggernaut, but that really doesn't look necessary this year.

    Honest question. Who CANT they beat? There's not one single team that scares me. It's so up in the air, that making the decision to give up NOW isn't a very good one.

    To get that center. You deal Miller, you deal DeAngelo, you deal Smith ( out of the lineup again today), you deal Holden, you deal Fast. You make a package from these guys and prospects or picks (not a first unless it's a top line guy, in that case you offer Buch as an option) and you get a player that fits.

    Whos available? I don't know, but I'd imagine there's top six players to be had from teams like Anaheim, Dallas, Detroit, Montreal, Edmonton, Buffalo, Colorado, Florida, Ottawa, Philly, SJ, Toronto, Vancouver.... Plenty of trade partners that would be looking to be sellers or change things up, or add pieces that this team should be offering. Probably some older players available at half their salary for pennies on the dollar just with more years than you'd want. Like maybe Zetterberg can be had as a salary dump. Getzlaf? Lucic?

  20. #200
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Nash is busting his fucking ass and draws a lot of attention out there, yet is still getting chances and being denied. Very snake bitten. He's been a lil down lately, but hopefully this time off gave him some energy. The guy is in a contract year. Something tells me he's going to have a crazy second half. Dude is fuckin due. Flood gates are going to open.
    Hope he does. He is hardly going to crush them if he’s moved. It will hurt but his production won’t be missed his intangibles will

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