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Thread: Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

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    Senior Member Mite Division jsm7302's Avatar
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    Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

    It's time to cash in on Rick Nash. He won't command a huge return but with his lack of production, I feel a Hartford kid could step in and have 17 points halfway through the season. Think we could get a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the upcoming draft? You guys are more knowledgeable about this stuff than i; I just know it doesn't make sense to keep him if they don't plan to resign him for a MAJOR discount. Send him back to Columbus for his farewell tour.

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    ^^ And bring back Dubinsky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    ^^ And bring back Dubinsky.
    So he can cheer from the press box?

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    "A Hartford kid": There aren't any.

    "17 points" : A single player accumulating some arbitrary amount of points aren't how hockey games are won.

    If the Rangers have 1) No designs on competing this year or 2) Know for fact what Nash' contract demands are going forward, then, yes, trading him makes perfect sense. However, they do, obviously, have designs on competing this year and we, as fans, have no idea what his and the teams future plans are.

    At this point in both the season and Nash' contract, what he makes is virtually irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that they are certainly a better team with Rick Nash than without Rick Nash and until you replace him with somebody better than he, it will remain that way.

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    There's a case to be made for trading Nash, but "Player A could score 17 points" is a pretty poor approach to that.

    And I think he'd get you a heck of a lot more than a 2nd round pick. His reputation around the league is much, much higher than what it is for NYR fans.

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    Because they see him play all the time. It sure ain't pretty. Trade him back to Columbus.

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    He often looks brilliant in creating Grade B scoring chances. It's so frustrating that he doesn't find a way to create Grade A chances given his levels of skill and effort are still high. He ends up having to try to do it all himself because he hasn't developed really good chemistry with any of the other forwards; it goes back to Columbus where he had to do it himself. I can see him excelling elsewhere if he finds the right situation and personnel. Remember Eric Staal, who seemed washed up in Carolina and couldn't play his way off the third line here? He's kicking butt and leading Minnesota in scoring. He's on track for a 35 goal 70 point season!

    The play-by-play goes something like this: "The thoroughbred Nash roars across the blue line. Along the boards he incredibly sheds three defenders while maintaining possession of the puck! He wheels to the center while his line mates watch or change. He out muscles yet another defender! He has a fleeting clear look from 35 feet out at an angle! He unleashes a wrist shot while being harassed. It is routinely saved by the goalie. But boy, what an effort by Rick Nash! The man still can play!"

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    From the git - go it was a mistake for the NYR. Failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    There's a case to be made for trading Nash, but "Player A could score 17 points" is a pretty poor approach to that.

    And I think he'd get you a heck of a lot more than a 2nd round pick. His reputation around the league is much, much higher than what it is for NYR fans.
    Guaranteed first-round pick from a contender. Anything less and they sold for seventy cents on the dollar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    From the git - go it was a mistake for the NYR. Failure.
    From the get go? You seem to have a selective memory. The 21 goals and 42 points in 44 games his first year here, and the 42 goals in his third year were failing?

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    Been saying this since September. Doesn’t matter how many goals or points he has. Doesn’t matter what place we’re in at the deadline, the ONLY proper decision is to move him. Same with Grabner.

    Get. Something. For. These. Players.

    Rick Nash is not the missing piece this roster needs to win a cup. They’re rebuilding - whether it’s “on the fly” or not - that’s what needs to happen. Younger. More skilled. More cost control. More draft picks. Resign of Nash and/or Grabner is a mistake and an acceptance of 7th-9th place finishes for the forseable future. Simply put, it’s bad management to keep them.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Been saying this since September. Doesn’t matter how many goals or points he has. Doesn’t matter what place we’re in at the deadline, the ONLY proper decision is to move him. Same with Grabner.

    Get. Something. For. These. Players.

    Rick Nash is not the missing piece this roster needs to win a cup. They’re rebuilding - whether it’s “on the fly” or not - that’s what needs to happen. Younger. More skilled. More cost control. More draft picks. Resign of Nash and/or Grabner is a mistake and an acceptance of 7th-9th place finishes for the forseable future. Simply put, it’s bad management to keep them.
    Name one player younger than Nash who is more skilled and one player younger than Grabner who will score more goals, that you can get without losing draft picks or prospects. We know you hate him, but you act like dumping him for anything makes this team better.

    If you just want to get younger and tank, fine. But you aren't going to get players who move the needle without giving up futures. That's not how this league works. It never happens without a 1-for-1 swap. The reality is that dumping Grabner and Nash for picks and prospects moves you down right now and leaves you with a bunch of questions about the future. You've got as good a shot of turning the return into players who move you up from 7th-9th as you do down and, chances are, you're going down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Name one player younger than Nash who is more skilled and one player younger than Grabner who will score more goals, that you can get without losing draft picks or prospects. We know you hate him, but you act like dumping him for anything makes this team better.

    If you just want to get younger and tank, fine. But you aren't going to get players who move the needle without giving up futures. That's not how this league works. It never happens without a 1-for-1 swap. The reality is that dumping Grabner and Nash for picks and prospects moves you down right now and leaves you with a bunch of questions about the future. You've got as good a shot of turning the return into players who move you up from 7th-9th as you do down and, chances are, you're going down.
    That’s exactly my point. The team has been trending down since 2014. Accept that they need to restock. This perpetual hole plugging is not a strategy. Get something (picks) for these players instead of finishing 7-9th. I don’t care if it makes them worse tomorrow if it makes them better than mediocre - which is what they are - in a year or two.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    That’s exactly my point. The team has been trending down since 2014. Accept that they need to restock. This perpetual hole plugging is not a strategy. Get something (picks) for these players instead of finishing 7-9th. I don’t care if it makes them worse tomorrow if it makes them better than mediocre - which is what they are - in a year or two.
    So, it seems we are having this discussion on two current threads. 31, I understand what you are saying. Here's essentially what I said on another thread:

    It is good to get something (building blocks/high draft choices) for assets a team could potentially lose for nothing, next year.

    However, this is sports, this is hockey, 8th seeds have won Cups recently... you're a competitor. YOU play, coach and manage the team to win. PARTICULARLY when those 3 parties believe they are a PLAYOFF team.

    Life is short. I've seen plenty of reasonably talented teams put it together in the post season. Guys get hot. Other team's stars can get hurt. A team can not trade key pieces like Nash or Grabner for draft choices, when the team thinks it is a playoff team and is in that position halfway through.

    A compromise is in order. A compromise I opined for the year we traded for Staal. We do not trade Nash or Grabs for draft picks. Yet, we do not trade legitimate futures for rentals.

    Basically Nash and Grabs are our rentals. Do for not trade futures or pay an inflated price for any other rental.

    31, if you were GM how would you sell it to the players and coaches that you just traded Nash AND Grabs for future draft choices and no come across as a quitter or having no confidence in the core of the personnel here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    From the get go? You seem to have a selective memory. The 21 goals and 42 points in 44 games his first year here, and the 42 goals in his third year were failing?
    Picking cherries doesn't escape the facts. Generally, he showed up when he decided to. Surely not on every shift. and more so, not the elite player that he was cracked up to be. Bye bye, Ranger Rick. See ya'.

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    Hey Guys, let's give up on the year. We're only going to pace 98 points this year, We should build for the future in the expectation of finishing with maybe 102 points!

    I don't understand this logic. Rebuilding guarantees NOTHING. I'd actually say the teams that are "rebuilding" generally tend to be constantly rebuilding. Edmonton sucks. Buffalo, is worse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    So, it seems we are having this discussion on two current threads. 31, I understand what you are saying. Here's essentially what I said on another thread:

    It is good to get something (building blocks/high draft choices) for assets a team could potentially lose for nothing, next year.

    However, this is sports, this is hockey, 8th seeds have won Cups recently... you're a competitor. YOU play, coach and manage the team to win. PARTICULARLY when those 3 parties believe they are a PLAYOFF team.

    Life is short. I've seen plenty of reasonably talented teams put it together in the post season. Guys get hot. Other team's stars can get hurt. A team can not trade key pieces like Nash or Grabner for draft choices, when the team thinks it is a playoff team and is in that position halfway through.

    A compromise is in order. A compromise I opined for the year we traded for Staal. We do not trade Nash or Grabs for draft picks. Yet, we do not trade legitimate futures for rentals.

    Basically Nash and Grabs are our rentals. Do for not trade futures or pay an inflated price for any other rental.

    31, if you were GM how would you sell it to the players and coaches that you just traded Nash AND Grabs for future draft choices and no come across as a quitter or having no confidence in the core of the personnel here?
    I appreciate the well written/thoughtout response.

    Yes. It’s a hard sell to the players. In fact, it’s probably impossible not to piss off a few guys. But if Im the GM I’m looking at this bigger picture. I’m not here to make nice with Hank - who would be most pissed. I’m here to rebuild a perennial contender. I’m here to be realistic about the current team and the future. I’m here to execute a PLAN.

    Yes, an 8th place team can catch lightning in a bottle - but that doesn’t happen very often. So if I’m looking at trends, I see that this team has been trending downward for years now. I see that major pieces have been traded off, while some remain as part of a half-rebuild, half-i-don’t-know-what. It’s not the GMs job to say “well, I don’t want to anger the players, so I’m just going to stand pat and let the cards fall where they may.” He’s paid to make those hard decisions. Standing pat is not making a decision. It’s kicking the can down the road.

    Letting Grabner and Nash walk for nothing is just not an acceptable plan. The bandaid has to be ripped off here. I believe Nash can net us a 1st. With that 1st and the depth of this draft we could potentially see 4 1st round picks on next years roster. If that doesn’t excite you, I don’t know what does. Two years down the road we have the Russian kid in net and viola, the team is born a new.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Yes. It’s a hard sell to the players. In fact, it’s probably impossible not to piss off a few guys. But if Im the GM I’m looking at this bigger picture. I’m not here to make nice with Hank - who would be most pissed. I’m here to rebuild a perennial contender. I’m here to be realistic about the current team and the future. I’m here to execute a PLAN.

    Yes, an 8th place team can catch lightning in a bottle - but that doesn’t happen very often. So if I’m looking at trends, I see that this team has been trending downward for years now. I see that major pieces have been traded off, while some remain as part of a half-rebuild, half-i-don’t-know-what. It’s not the GMs job to say “well, I don’t want to anger the players, so I’m just going to stand pat and let the cards fall where they may.” He’s paid to make those hard decisions. Standing pat is not making a decision. It’s kicking the can down the road.

    Letting Grabner and Nash walk for nothing is just not an acceptable plan. The bandaid has to be ripped off here. I believe Nash can net us a 1st. With that 1st and the depth of this draft we could potentially see 4 1st round picks on next years roster. If that doesn’t excite you, I don’t know what does. Two years down the road we have the Russian kid in net and viola, the team is born a new.
    It's not just Hank, more than half the team would be pissed, all the coaches, many fans, etc. But that is not what concerns me most.

    It is the message you the GM (the leader) you send from the top and it is the culture you foster. You would consciously and subconsciously instill a quitters and losers mentality. You would create a poisonous locker room and a terrible culture. This team is currently in the playoffs, but mgmt gives up in Jan? The payoff - 4 first round draft choices versus 3, according to your comparison - is not worth it. To boot, that extra draft choice is coming from a contending team and is going to be late in the round anyway. We are not adding Tkachuk or a talent of that ilk, in that spot.

    The risk is too high, its unprofessional and it creates new problems unnecessarily. Vets would have to question the makeup of our mgmt, it might be less desirable to come here. Would a classy winning big market organization quit on a playoff team?

    Better solution is to just not make trades that mortgage our future. Shouldn't have made the Staal or Klowe trades, among others. That is 5-6 additional prospects we'd currently have in our coffers. Stop making those trades and we'll be fine. Scout well. Acquire extra picks when we are not a playoff team or in the off season.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 01-04-2018 at 07:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    Picking cherries doesn't escape the facts. Generally, he showed up when he decided to. Surely not on every shift. and more so, not the elite player that he was cracked up to be. Bye bye, Ranger Rick. See ya'.
    Picking cherries doesn't escape facts? The only facts presented were Nash's outstanding numbers in years 1 and 3 of his Ranger tenure. You saying he was a failure from the get go is not a fact. You never post any facts only weirlly biased, unsupported opinions.

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    And when I ask "how do you sell it?" I think what I really mean is that you would not be able to sell it. Just saying you have a plan would not sell it. Your actions would speak so loudly about not only your plan, but how you feel about the team as a whole that it wouldn't matter how good a communicator you are. It would have a deleterious effect.

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