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Thread: Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Is that what it means? So having draft picks guarantees you being terrible? How is that? Having no picks would guarantee you not getting a good player. It’s not hard to understand but I’ll try one last time.
    The higher the draft pick the better odds at drafting a good player. The more of those said high draft picks the better the odds at drafting a good player. Now when a players contract runs out they do not play for you anymore unless you resign them. That player is free to go wherever he wants. If your goal is to win you will want to maximize the talent on your team. Having no players would guarantee your team sucks
    Does not having draft picks guarantee you not getting a good player? Vesey, Hayes, and Zucc say hi. Current prospects Lettieri and Pionk say hi too. Here's a question you seem to be ignoring, if you trade half your team for draft picks, who do you put on the ice? You think those draft picks step in year one and replace what Nash and Grabner, or even DD and Holden, do for the team? You think a team of rookies will win games because some of these draft picks may turn out to be good players 2, 3, 4 years down the road?

  2. #142
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Who said that? If you are expecting that in keeping Nash and Grabner means you are contending you are dreaming. So then what? You guys want to stand pat in hopes of extending the season a week? They are probably gone maybe Grabner stays at a massive raise but we’ll see. You give no thought in getting something for them when you will get a good return instead of losing them for nothing? There is no argument in that other than a misguided prayer that they will be key parts to a championship this year. Do you really think they have a good chance at winning?
    If you do trade them You are guaranteed to get a raise in your prospect pool. It doesn’t mean they will be stars or anything. But it does give you assets in which you either try and develop or could flip down the line to improve your team. A first round draft pick this summer will keep their value for at least a couple of years. You never know what will become of 17-18 year old kids but being able to select as high as possible will give you a better chance. The more of those chances you have the better chance you have at hitting on something. You have scouts for a reason. You hire them because you think they can identify talent. For once let them do their jobs. The only guarantee here is by doing nothing you don’t win a cup and your roster next year will be weaker and you cap situation in future years will be worse off than if you had traded them. Having cheap young talent is the best currency in this league now. Nobody can argue that that is not the case. Getting that kind of talent only comes from building a deep prospect pool. Having more high end picks gives you a better chance of developing that.
    Nobody is saying have a fire sale. The only thing being said is you need to trade the players who have high value who aren’t going to be here anyway. They made this same mistake with Yandle. Everybody knew he was a goner but they held onto him for a false hope at glory. 5 predictable games later they were golfing and instead of getting a high return for him the rangers got a 5th round pick. That whole situation was insane and yet you guys are proposing the same thing now. That decision on Yandle is effecting this team this season. Maybe if the correct decision was made then this team would be better situated to actually do what you are proposing. We’ll never know. What we do know is that the rangers aren’t getting closer to a cup each year with this team. You can’t go for it every year.

  3. #143
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    if you trade them when you are in a playoff spot, for random picks, thats horrible.

    You arent getting a great pick or prospect for either player.

    If this team is playing shitty hockey, 10th/11th place just going through the motions, I dont think youll see too many people complain about UFA getting moved... but we are not at that point.

    The issue with your comments, stem from your willingness to trade off UFA, at below market value, when the team is in a solid spot to make the playoffs. And honestly, no team in the East is unbeatable.

  4. #144
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Trading two ufa players is not trading half your team. Both of those players are more than likely not here anyway and if they are it’s at the cost of other roster players because they have to get paid too. You guys are all ridiculous and I thought when people like bob McKenzie says that the rangers market and fan base won’t allow them to make shrewd moves like think about more than right now he was wrong. I guess not. The beat goes on and that cup will have to last a lifetime. They way this team has operated has resulted in 1 cup in almost 80 years. You would think that would be enough for any of you to even consider trying doing something different but I guess not.
    Anybody want to bet the rangers don’t get out of the first round this year? I have 4 tickets to all Stanley cup final home games for the rangers this year. Anybody care to wager for them?

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Trading two ufa players is not trading half your team. Both of those players are more than likely not here anyway and if they are it’s at the cost of other roster players because they have to get paid too. You guys are all ridiculous and I thought when people like bob McKenzie says that the rangers market and fan base won’t allow them to make shrewd moves like think about more than right now he was wrong. I guess not. The beat goes on and that cup will have to last a lifetime. They way this team has operated has resulted in 1 cup in almost 80 years. You would think that would be enough for any of you to even consider trying doing something different but I guess not.
    Anybody want to bet the rangers don’t get out of the first round this year? I have 4 tickets to all Stanley cup final home games for the rangers this year. Anybody care to wager for them?
    What other roster player?

    You just said the Rangers have nobody in the pipeline.

  6. #146
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    No one is saying we don't want or value picks. We're saying that no team, in any sport, trades away players for futures when they are in the playoffs. That's a sure fire way to have the players still on your team quit on you and want to go elsewhere to win. Good luck attracting free agents when you give up playoff opportunities because you quit trying. But I get get it, you're a pessimist, been that way for years.
    Last edited by Long live the King; 01-12-2018 at 01:00 PM.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Trading two ufa players is not trading half your team. Both of those players are more than likely not here anyway and if they are it’s at the cost of other roster players because they have to get paid too. You guys are all ridiculous and I thought when people like bob McKenzie says that the rangers market and fan base won’t allow them to make shrewd moves like think about more than right now he was wrong. I guess not. The beat goes on and that cup will have to last a lifetime. They way this team has operated has resulted in 1 cup in almost 80 years. You would think that would be enough for any of you to even consider trying doing something different but I guess not.
    Anybody want to bet the rangers don’t get out of the first round this year? I have 4 tickets to all Stanley cup final tickets for the rangers this year. Anybody care to wager for them?
    So, when the team is competitive, you want to trade these guys, for picks. Develop those picks, then trade those prospects for a Nash/Grabner type player at the deadline when this team is on the bubble in a few years.


    And seriously... there is no sense bringing up how this team was "run" prior to the lockout. That's completely irrelevant. The Rangers have been one of the most successful teams ... you know, on-ice success, which is a lot closer to a cup than a few draft picks in 2019.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Trading two ufa players is not trading half your team. Both of those players are more than likely not here anyway and if they are it’s at the cost of other roster players because they have to get paid too. You guys are all ridiculous and I thought when people like bob McKenzie says that the rangers market and fan base won’t allow them to make shrewd moves like think about more than right now he was wrong. I guess not. The beat goes on and that cup will have to last a lifetime. They way this team has operated has resulted in 1 cup in almost 80 years. You would think that would be enough for any of you to even consider trying doing something different but I guess not.
    Anybody want to bet the rangers don’t get out of the first round this year? I have 4 tickets to all Stanley cup final home games for the rangers this year. Anybody care to wager for them?
    If you're trading Nash and Grabner, then why are you keeping Holden and DD? So who are replacing one of your top 4 D and 3 of your top 9 forwards with next year?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If you're trading Nash and Grabner, then why are you keeping Holden and DD? So who are replacing one of your top 4 D and 3 of your top 9 forwards with next year?
    He doesnt care. He doesnt want the team to win, or be competitive.

    Its a "why work to save for money when you might win on a lottery scratch off" mentality.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    You don’t know that. So is chytil a shitty prospect because he was a Kate first round pick. How about Buchnevich is he horrible? That’s just two. When was skeij picked? Do we really need to do this? The rangers aren’t getting a generational talent for them no shit. But the just the rangers roster is loaded with guys picked mid to late in the first two rounds. Could we use another miller? Is that player enough to win them a cup, no. But they sure could use more of players of that caliber especially when a player of that caliber is making peanuts for three years.

    You guys just can’t wait the two or three years for that player to be here at the expense of a week longer season today. That’s fine but

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    You don’t know that. So is chytil a shitty prospect because he was a Kate first round pick. How about Buchnevich is he horrible? That’s just two. When was skeij picked? Do we really need to do this? The rangers aren’t getting a generational talent for them no shit. But the just the rangers roster is loaded with guys picked mid to late in the first two rounds. Could we use another miller? Is that player enough to win them a cup, no. But they sure could use more of players of that caliber especially when a player of that caliber is making peanuts for three years.

    You guys just can’t wait the two or three years for that player to be here at the expense of a week longer season today. That’s fine but
    NO actually what we're saying is the team will be terrible for the 2 or 3 years while we wait for these pick to, key word here, hopefully develop. On top of that, 3 years down the road we'll be having this same conversation at the deadline, only well be talking about trading Miller or Zib or Krieder.

  12. #152
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    There's a pretty good chance that player will never make it here, and even if he does it will be in a role that could be filled by many other options.

    Prospect attrition is very high and why I'm never to hung up on trading or trading for a late 1st rounder.

    I believe it's wiser to get while the gettins' good, which is right now.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    You don’t know that. So is chytil a shitty prospect because he was a Kate first round pick. How about Buchnevich is he horrible? That’s just two. When was skeij picked? Do we really need to do this? The rangers aren’t getting a generational talent for them no shit. But the just the rangers roster is loaded with guys picked mid to late in the first two rounds. Could we use another miller? Is that player enough to win them a cup, no. But they sure could use more of players of that caliber especially when a player of that caliber is making peanuts for three years.

    You guys just can’t wait the two or three years for that player to be here at the expense of a week longer season today. That’s fine but
    We dont have a prospect pool or good players or good young players because we dont have draft picks. You already stated that.

  14. #154
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Yes I don’t want them to win or be competitive. Good call. If you want to move Holden or dd go ahead. If the rangers can get back a decent return for either Nash or Grabner that aren’t prospects but are on friendly contracts then great do it.
    Those two are most likely gone this summer for nothing. Why is that so hard to understand? If they stay then somebody else is gone because of the cap. How is it being pessimistic to want to get something for them before losing them for nothing? They are in the mix for a playoff spot based solely on their goaltending. They are not playing good hockey they are mediocre. They play 20 minutes a night. That is what they are. Can you dispute that? I’m not the one calling for a scratch off mentality. Praying for a miracle run is that mentality. The cost of that prayer is losing two valuable players for nothing making you worse next season and beyond. Not trading them is not Armageddon but they can better position themselves by doing so for next year and beyond. You want to roll the dice great. I don’t. I see it as just more of what hasn’t worked. I see it as closing their window as opposed to extending it. The rangers have left themselves rather bare compared to their piers by doing this over the past decade. I didn’t disagree with going for it in some of those years but at some point you need to rebuild that cupboard. This year instead of going for it I think it’s best for long term success to this year to recoup assets for those you are sure to lose anyway.

  15. #155
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    What I stated is that our prospect pool is weak compared to their piers. Players playing in the NHL’s are not prospects especially when they are no longer on a elc. Anderson and chytil are a good start. But they could always use more especially at the expense of two guys you are going to lose for nothing

  16. #156
    Senior Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    I get it but how is Nash and Grabner going to help for the next two or three years when they sign elsewhere this summer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Yes I don’t want them to win or be competitive. Good call. If you want to move Holden or dd go ahead. If the rangers can get back a decent return for either Nash or Grabner that aren’t prospects but are on friendly contracts then great do it.
    Those two are most likely gone this summer for nothing. Why is that so hard to understand? If they stay then somebody else is gone because of the cap. How is it being pessimistic to want to get something for them before losing them for nothing? They are in the mix for a playoff spot based solely on their goaltending. They are not playing good hockey they are mediocre. They play 20 minutes a night. That is what they are. Can you dispute that? I’m not the one calling for a scratch off mentality. Praying for a miracle run is that mentality. The cost of that prayer is losing two valuable players for nothing making you worse next season and beyond. Not trading them is not Armageddon but they can better position themselves by doing so for next year and beyond. You want to roll the dice great. I don’t. I see it as just more of what hasn’t worked. I see it as closing their window as opposed to extending it. The rangers have left themselves rather bare compared to their piers by doing this over the past decade. I didn’t disagree with going for it in some of those years but at some point you need to rebuild that cupboard. This year instead of going for it I think it’s best for long term success to this year to recoup assets for those you are sure to lose anyway.
    Give that enter key a couple taps. Paragraphs are good.


    There is no bigger roll of the dice than the draft...

  18. #158
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    I donít see why itís so farfetched to want to trade Nash or anyone else with an expiring contract for prospects or picks if you believe the team isnít good enough to win the whole thing. It was already said that top heavy seems to win, how else do you get there?

    I personally donít feel they are near close, if they do happen to make their way in the playoffs, I donít see them getting out of the first round. Especially with their blue line, lacking a good centerman and powerplay. But thatís me, heck I would even entertain offers for McD at this point.

  19. #159
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    General question. Pray tell. What " picks " will Na$h or Grabner actually bring?

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers4Life View Post
    I don’t see why it’s so farfetched to want to trade Nash or anyone else with an expiring contract for prospects or picks if you believe the team isn’t good enough to win the whole thing. It was already said that top heavy seems to win, how else do you get there?

    I personally don’t feel they are near close, if they do happen to make their way in the playoffs, I don’t see them getting out of the first round. Especially with their blue line, lacking a good centerman and powerplay. But that’s me, heck I would even entertain offers for McD at this point.
    For me, being in the playoffs usually means your a contender... unless your team is terrible and lucked out (nope) or there is multiple "scary good" teams in your conference (nope).

    I'll trade them for upgrades, sure.

    I'll trade anyone for an upgrade.

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