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Thread: Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Future, that is spot on. He's been very good until recent weeks. During this stretch, Nash is getting DD as his C, resulting in him covering defensively for his centerman.

    I've talked incessantly about how McD needs a partner, but Nash and that 2nd line needs a quality two-way C to produce more points and mesh with Nash and our group of top 6 wingers. The league is getting faster and dramatically more talented. The kids are ready sooner and there is more of them from the US and other countries, then ever before. A 31 y/o DD is not part of top 6 for a Cup contender. Or even a top 9 on this team. And now it appears the 4C can be held down by Lettieri or Nieves and some even even say a guy from Hartford, making DD practically expendable.

    It is not that he hasn't tried to fit, and he's contributed here and there. Like Carey, he also makes for a great vet to be able to bring off the bench when injuries hit. But he does not make enough of an impact for such a key role and unlike some of the smaller players we like, he is pushed off the play or puck, too often. Add that he is below average defending and you have to wonder if he should be here.

    My take - once Zib and Hayes are fully healthy, rather than send down Lettieri or sitting Nieves, I'd trade or sit DD. Frankly, we need a 2C like RNH centering for Nash. Edm is still sucking and Chiarelli has been known to make a shitty trade every now and then.
    I've liked DD and what he brings, but I can't disagree with your assessment.


    Do we really want to clog up the center position with RNH, at this point? (and certainly not for a few months of Nash). We have Tavares to target in the offseason, we have Chytil and Lias coming up,. Already have Hayes, Zibs and Nieves.

    Honestly, what this team needs... is what we hope to get from Andersson and Chytil in a few years.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    I'm sick of early exits.

    This team isn't one piece from a Cup. It's one piece from winning a round. If Nash, Grabner, Kreider, or basically anyone not named Skjei/Zib on our current roster gets us a piece that lets us think about the Cup next year, I'm all for it.
    The only way that's happening is via a coup-type trade. It's a shame Chiarelli already gave away Eberle and Hall for seventy cents on the dollar. Hall, especially, would have been an impressive get.

    I guess there's always Marc Bergevin.
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  3. #103
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    2. So, yes, Gorton should be in aggressive listening mode, specifically on pending free agent Rick Nash, who unfortunately is playing some of the weakest hockey of his tenure in New York, having gone pointless in his last 10 games while recording just two goals and six points in 23 games going back to Nov. 17.

    The wingerís decline in production isnít likely to increase his market value, but it only takes two teams believing that No. 61 can be a missing link to a title in order to generate a bidding war. Generally, Iíd say nothing less than a first-rounder would do, but given the likelihood that Nash will not be back next year under even a hometown discount, you bet Gorton should entertain offers including a second-rounder, plus.

    Might the Rangers take a step back without Nash? Yes. But trading Nash would open ice time for Vinni Lettieri. And, pucks to baseballs, trading Carlos Beltran, Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman at the 2016 deadline did not kneecap the Yankees for even the next two months.

    But it isnít just about Nash. It is about an attitude and philosophy approaching the deadline that the Rangers might be able to use as a mechanism to take two steps forward next year and three the year after that even if it does result in a step back this time.
    https://nypost.com/2018/01/09/ranger...rade-deadline/
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    The only way that's happening is via a coup-type trade. It's a shame Chiarelli already gave away Eberle and Hall for seventy cents on the dollar. Hall, especially, would have been an impressive get.

    I guess there's always Marc Bergevin.
    How do either still have a job?

    And how did the Devils get so fuckin lucky?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I've liked DD and what he brings, but I can't disagree with your assessment.


    Do we really want to clog up the center position with RNH, at this point? (and certainly not for a few months of Nash). We have Tavares to target in the offseason, we have Chytil and Lias coming up,. Already have Hayes, Zibs and Nieves.
    Good question. If the Rangers find an opportunity to acquire a youngish, proven top-6 center (like RNH) for less than mkt value, they should do it. Reason is top centers are too important and rare enough that gambling the kids will reach that level before they hit drinking age is too risky. Plus Zib and Hayes would have to remain healthy and play at a continuous high level. Too many things need to go right. If by chance they all reach potential, then we'll have a trading chip to get our Seth Jones or Sergachev. Besides, centers can move to wing temporarily.

    Honestly, what this team needs... is what we hope to get from Andersson and Chytil in a few years.
    Honestly, if I'm being honest with myself, that is the most sobering and realistic take on the center situation and future. Let's hope one of them pans out to a legit top talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Phil, must you take out the trash here?

    OK, I'll indulge.
    1. Vinni is not replacing Nash.
    2. Injuries look to provide Vinni ice time anyway.
    3. We'd never trade Nash for less than a 1st (they are late firsts anyway).
    4. If we did sell cheap, Gorton would be on a short leash.
    5. This mgmt and ownership will not trade Nash if we are a playoff team.
    6. How da fuck does he know how much Nash would want to stay? Nash likely does not even know. Depends on production.
    7. Getting cutesy saying hometown discount. Too simplistic. Par for the course.
    8. His thoughts are shaped by the message boards, which he provocatively regurgitates down to an unnuanced rancid pile of know-it-all bile.

  7. #107
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    Nash for Picks in the 2018 Draft?

    Itís a business, business tells you that Nash should be traded and Nash shouldnít be traded.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Phil, must you take out the trash here?


    1. Vinni is not replacing Nash.
    I agree with all of your distaste for Larry, lol, but I think this point is interesting.

    Vinni is the type of guy who should be on a line WITH Nash, not replacing him. Despite the slump, he's a guy who still commands attention around the net and gives other guys room to operate, but he never really plays with shoot-first players. If Vinni is that guy - and it looks like he is - who can be the third man in, find a weak spot, and pull the trigger, he'd compliment Nash real well.

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    If Nash and Grabner are not traded than Gorton should be fired for incompetence. This organization clearly never acts in the proper way that builds championships. They contend for the playoffs every year and hope to get lucky. It has never resulted in a cup. Never. The only cup they have won in 78 years cane from a team that was the favorite. It wasnít a prayer it was the best team winning. To think this team can win this year is a prayer. It can happen but the odds are beyond slim. Trading nash who is gone this summer is a no brainer for he will bring back good assets. Assets that can be used in ranger blue years from now or assets that can be traded when the team is better positioned to contend. Grabner is a tougher decision because if heís willing to sign a reasonable contract you could keep him. But heíd bring back some serious return at the deadline that strengthens this team down the roads. Question is is Grabner the player of the past two years or the guy the past 8. My view is cash out high and build. The team will be worse this season but will be stronger going forward and it will gain flexibility cap wise which is like adding another high end asset.

    This team has no chance at a cup this year and management knows it. Does msg value one round of playoff money or does it value winning cups? That answer has always been the playoffs. History tells you that ends in 54 year droughts. Itís even more pronounced now in the cap era and the impact youth is making in the league. You canít have enough young talent and young talent is what youíll get in moving Nash and Grabner. The only responsible decision is trying to win and I mean the cup is to trade them.

    For those who think they could become the Sabres is running their team scared. What they do now hasnít worked. They had their window and that window could open again quicker if they donít constantly chase false hopes. It doesnít guarantee anything but it gives them a better chance. Tavares is a monster ifís this year and a wet dream. Next years ufa crop is loaded probably the best ever. If you want to be players in that market you need cap space. Young elc players are what afford you that space. That only can happen if you have those kind of players which the rangers donít have. Yes Anderson and chytil are a nice start but having more only helps that case. Trade them it has to happen. 78 years is all that needs be said. Enough of always going for it. This is not the year just like the last two werenít it either.
    Last edited by Fatfrancesa; 01-10-2018 at 11:19 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    If Nash and Grabner are not traded than Gorton should be fired for incompetence.
    What if he keeps them and they make a run to the cup final?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    What if he keeps them and they make a run to the cup final?
    Obviously he stays. However that is a pipe dream. Making the playoffs is probably 50/50 at best. Winning a round would be way over achieving. This team just isn’t good.

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    And it doesn’t get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesn’t understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    And it doesn’t get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesn’t understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich
    I dont know what you are looking at, but the entire ranking of the prospect pool is crap.
    The rangers have had the worst prospect pool since 1928. It didnt seem to stop them from being one of the best teams in the league over the last decade, even though they havent won a cup. Who cares if you have 13 forwards that might make the AHL. What matters is game-breaking prospect... which are usually NHL players. fuck prospect pools.

    Pittsburgh has been ranked the worst prospect pool since Crosby came...

    there is litterally zero correlation between prospect pools and future success.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    And it doesnít get better by hanging onto ufa players at seasons end that if traded would bring back a load of young assets. Just my opinion but those who argue to keep them for the hope of playoff miracles just doesnít understand that the league changed dramatically when the cap came about. Young cheap quality players are like gold. The rangers dont have enough of them. In fact they are ranked dead last in terms of their prospect pool. The young guys they do have are all getting paid by this summer other than Buchnevich
    No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick.

    The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick.

    The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago.
    Same issue we have now, too many middle 6 forwards. (aka - your previous prospect pool)
    Best teams, recently, are extremely top heavy teams - Pittsburgh, Chicago. 2nd teir being LA (every other season), SJ
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Same issue we have now, too many middle 6 forwards. (aka - your previous prospect pool)
    Best teams, recently, are extremely top heavy teams - Pittsburgh, Chicago. 2nd teir being LA (every other season), SJ
    And to take it one step further, those teams are top heavy from consecutive YEARS of sucking and lucking into generational talent. Not from being sellers at the deadline for a couple extra picks in the 20's in one draft....

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    Our generational talent was drafted in the 7th round and plays the wrong position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    And to take it one step further, those teams are top heavy from consecutive YEARS of sucking and lucking into generational talent. Not from being sellers at the deadline for a couple extra picks in the 20's in one draft....
    Bingo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I dont know what you are looking at, but the entire ranking of the prospect pool is crap.
    The rangers have had the worst prospect pool since 1928. It didnt seem to stop them from being one of the best teams in the league over the last decade, even though they havent won a cup. Who cares if you have 13 forwards that might make the AHL. What matters is game-breaking prospect... which are usually NHL players. fuck prospect pools.

    Pittsburgh has been ranked the worst prospect pool since Crosby came...

    there is litterally zero correlation between prospect pools and future success.
    You couldn’t be more wrong. It’s actually funny. Prospects are rated based upon potential. Having guys who don’t have high upsides according to those who actually scout players doesn’t bold well for your future.
    As far as the rangers not having a top prospect pool since 1928. Again you are so wrong you should probably stop posting.
    The years leading up to you know the beginning of the 90’s when some good things happened the rangers had a massive amount of highly rated prospects. Um richter kovalev leetch amonte weight marchant zubov nemchinov katpotsev etc. they were very highly rated and they were the foundation for what was to come. Some stayed some were traded for pivotal pieces.
    Same thing with the past run of excellence. The rangers did it through the draft or prospect pool. They again were ranked extremely high. Callahan Dubi arty Staal Girardi hank etc. The rangers did not make rash moves they built up with the draft. And they were ranked very high as far as their future.

    Every good team started with a great prospect pool. They might have been bad at the time but if you pay attention you know which teams are going to be good in the years to come.
    Your whole premise of it not mattering what talent is in your system shouldn’t have to be explained why it’s important.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    No team wins a Cup without UFAs - most are buyers at the deadline and sell futures for a Cup run. If you are perpetually trading your vets to get assets, you will constantly have a lot of assets and never win dick.

    The cap actually means that you have to trade for good players at the deadline because you can't afford to keep all of your young talent. Let's say the Rangers trade Nash for Puljujarvi and Grabner for, say, Honka. What happens when Pulj, Honka, Buch, and Skjei are all all stars, need to be re-signed in two offseasons, and you can't fit them under the cap? You trade one of them? The cap means that you can't just build a massive stock of young players, because when their ELCs expired, you've got to dump good players. It's exactly what's happened to Chicago.
    Perpetually trading our vets. You’re funny. The rangers can go five years without a number 1 pick until last year and that’s your statement? The only perpetual thing going on here is that the rangers never sell and they always buy to appease what they must believe is a less than smart fan base. This team has done the exact thing you are again asking them to do again for almost 100 years. They have actually built up depth in their prospect pool on two occasions that I can think of and in both cases they enjoyed all the success this team has ever had. Yet you have no patience. It doesn’t mean you can’t go for it when the time is right because that is what results in cups including our lone one. But this is not that team.
    They haven’t played more than 20 minutes a night ever. They get outshot by 20 every night. They are horrible on the blue line and worse down the middle. By the grace of hank they are again in the mix. Hank can be Fucking god and he’s not enough. This is not the same team as 14 it’s not even close.

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