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Thread: Replacing Kreider Won't Be Easy

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Ah, ok, fair enough. I don't really agree with that but it's an argument I can buy at least.

    I actually agree that we should be in the process of re-tooling, rather than selling futures for anything. But I don't like the idea of making your team worse when you're a playoff team, regardless of what it might mean for next year.
    Like you future, to a small degree I get the argument. It is good to get something (building blocks/high draft choices) for assets a team could potentially lose for nothing, next year.

    However, this is sports, this is hockey, 8th seeds have won Cups recently... you're a competitor. YOU play, coach and manage the team to win. PARTICULARLY when those 3 parties believe they are a PLAYOFF team.

    Life is short. I've seen plenty of reasonably talented teams put it together in the post season. Guys get hot. Other team's stars can get hurt. A team can not trade key pieces like Nash or Grabner for draft choices, when the team thinks it is a playoff team and is in that position halfway through.

    I think a compromise is in order. One I opined for the year we traded for Staal. We do not trade Nash or Grabs for draft picks. Yet, we do not trade legitimate futures for rentals.

    Now I could be talked into a trade for a legit 2C who plays 200' and can add to our offense. Only guy I see from a team that might not be in the playoff hunt is RNH. However, he has been so good lately that the talk is mgmt is going to keep him and figure out how to deal with his salary, next year. Besides, we are not trading Chytil or Shesty, so unless we trade Andersson and they like one of our D prospects, we don't have the ammo to get a guy of his caliber, who isn't a rental.

  2. #22
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    TLDR version:
    So I'm basically saying Nash and Grabs are our rentals. Who we may even resign. No need to pay inflated prices for any more rentals, who won't have the benefit of a training camp in our system and likely will not fit in right away.

    Looks like we should stand pat, make a minor trade, rip someone off, or make a hockey trade that benefits us now AND in the future.

    Even though I don't think we have more than a small puncher's chance to make a run this year, everyone is 0 - 0 to start each playoff series. I may not bet on us, but I will root for the playoffs and enjoy the playoff games thinking we have a better chance than the USA in 1980.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    TLDR version:
    So I'm basically saying Nash and Grabs are our rentals. Who we may even resign. No need to pay inflated prices for any more rentals, who won't have the benefit of a training camp in our system and likely will not fit in right away.

    Looks like we should stand pat, make a minor trade, rip someone off, or make a hockey trade that benefits us now AND in the future.

    Even though I don't think we have more than a small puncher's chance to make a run this year, everyone is 0 - 0 to start each playoff series. I may not bet on us, but I will root for the playoffs and enjoy the playoff games thinking we have a better chance than the USA in 1980.
    I agree with this, particularly the bolded. Unless things get drastically worse before the deadline, this should be the course.

    I'm just curious what people say if, before the deadline, the Rangers win a whole bunch of games in a row and end up being #1 in the Metro. We still sellers, because that seems crazy to me.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    So when is a team good enough to be in Win Now mode?
    That's why we pay Sather and Gorton and Co. the big bucks ... to make that call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    What's the percentage of teams who collect futures and turn it into a Cup? Because I've got news for ya, every Cup winner the last decade has been in Win Now mode, and they've all sold major futures for pieces to their Cups. It's so easy to say "The Rangers should sell they aren't good enough to win a cup this year durrrr," but nobody ever wants to take the important step and say what qualifies a team to be in win-now mode. If it's lucking into drafting Toews/Kane or Malkin/Crosby, then you're crazy. You're lucky to get one of those guys, two is a miracle.

    You know who has been sellers for a long time? Buffalo, Arizona, and Edmonton. None of them are closer now to being a contender than they were a decade ago because the draft is, at best, a crap shoot.
    You bring up a good point.

    And you know, I think of that series against the Kings when we were underdogs and we came that close. I think players who want to win a cup would prefer to take theri chances with a team that makes the conference finals and playoffs with regularity than wiht one that doesn't, so I kind of agree with you, but there's also a point at which you have balance and to make investments in the future, good young cap friendly players to make those Free Agent rockstars affordable. While I think Nash is a nice player to have, I think if it is a case of either Nash or Tavares (assuming we even have a chance at Tavares), then I would have to think about it seriously — but for sure I think we'd have a better chance if we had them both. That said, as good as Nash is as an all-round player, I look at his production numbers and they raise serious questions. His finishing this year has been tough to watch - can only hope it turns around. 65 games in 4 of the last 5 seasons make keeping Nash a bit more of a question mark.
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  5. #25
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    @lindacohn

    New York Rangers General Manager Jeff Gorton announced today that forward Chris Kreider will undergo surgery to have his rib resected. Following the surgery, he will remain sidelined indefinitely. #NYR

    Geez.

    Get well, sir.
    Last edited by Lt. Dan; 01-05-2018 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Falco View Post
    @lindacohn

    New York Rangers General Manager Jeff Gorton announced today that forward Chris Kreider will undergo surgery to have his rib resected. Following the surgery, he will remain sidelined indefinitely. #NYR

    Geez.

    Get well, sir.
    Fuck, that's not good.

  7. #27
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    It is good, actually.

  8. #28
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    Krieder catching no luck here.
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  9. #29
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    Translation?
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    It is good, actually.
    Because it's happening at the same time as an existing injury?


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  11. #31
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    If he comes back this year it’ll likely be for playoffs. Wonder what kind of long term effect this has on the team.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  12. #32
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    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Because it's happening at the same time as an existing injury?


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    From my googling its the same injury. Most likely he has thoracic outlet syndrome. Clotting in the arm is a symptom and rib resection surgery is the fix...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    From my googling its the same injury. Most likely he has thoracic outlet syndrome. Clotting in the arm is a symptom and rib resection surgery is the fix...
    See: Steven Stamkos
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    It is good, actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    See: Steven Stamkos
    I don't know. This isn't something like a torn ACL where everyone follows the same path and is pretty much guaranteed a full recovery.

    Expected Outcomes of Surgery

    In properly selected patients with neurogenic TOS who undergo supraclavicular decompression using the approach described here, we expect approximately

    85% to have substantial improvement in symptoms within 3 months of the operation or earlier (it is relatively rare for patients with neurogenic TOS to describe a complete absence of symptoms and no restrictions in activity, but this type of exceptionally favorable outcome can occur in approximately 5% of patients after surgery).
    Approximately 10% of patients will have less improvement or no substantial change in symptoms after surgery
    Approximately 5% will describe symptoms that have worsened in the first several months
    Although most patients with neurogenic TOS exhibit substantial improvement in symptoms within the first several months of operation, some will continue to have more steady improvement over a period as long as 1 to 2 years after surgery.

    Patients with neurogenic TOS are generally kept from returning to work or school for approximately 4 to 6 weeks after surgery, to allow sufficient time for recovery from the operation and to make satisfactory progress with physical therapy. Some patients may require a longer period of recovery before returning to work, depending on their preoperative levels of symptoms, pre-existing limitations and restrictions, and the nature of their work activities.

    Some may return to limited activities earlier, particularly if their work or school activities are relatively sedentary.

    Most patients are able to drive within 2 to 3 weeks of operation, but in some this can aggravate neck muscle spasm.

    Excessive activity in patients who return to work or other activities too early can lead to flares of neck and back muscle spasm, recurrent neurogenic symptoms, and even more prolonged recovery.
    http://tos.wustl.edu/For-Patients/Neurogenic-TOS

  16. #36
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    Hasn't Kreider had multiple instances of neck spams issues in the past? Also a symptom of thoracic outlet syndrome...

  17. #37
    Senior Member Mite Division Costa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    That's why we pay Sather and Gorton and Co. the big bucks ... to make that call..
    SHOW ME THE FREAKIN RINGS. SHOW ME THE RINGS.
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  18. #38
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    It's good because it's the likely cause of the restricted blood flow, if the fix works there will be no blood thinners required which means he will be able to come back and play again.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa View Post
    SHOW ME THE FREAKIN RINGS. SHOW ME THE RINGS.
    Like winning the cup is so easy? Rebuilding is a guaranteed cup?

    Of the last 9 cups, Pitt and Chicago account for 6.

    Chicago first won in 2009-2010. Prior to that, from 1997 to 2008 (12 years) they absolutely sucked. Record of 343 - 414 - 145. 7th fewest wins in the league. Between 1997 and 2005, they had 8 top 15 draft picks and they still sucked enough to draft Toews #3 in 2006 and Kane #1 in 2007. Is that what you want the Rangers to do? Suck miserably until they luck into drafting a Toews and a Kane?

    Pittsburgh first won in 2008-2009. Prior to that, from 2001 to 2006 they had the FEWEST wins in the NHL. 100 - 178 - 50. During those 5 years they drafted #5, #1, #2, #1, #2. They were lucky enough to draft two players better than Toews and Kane in Malkin and Crosby. They got lucky that there was generational talent available to coincide with the beginning of their suckiness.

    See Edmonton for what 8 straight top 10 picks will do without generational talent, Buffalo has had 5 straight. Arizona has had 8 picks in the top 8 (including the #7 they traded to us) in the past 13 drafts.

    Let's see...Washington had 12 first round picks between 2002 and 2007, to include a #1, #4, and #5. They haven't won a cup or as many playoff games as the Rangers.

    What else...The Trashers/Jets are finally having a good year. Since their inception in 1998 - 1999 to 2015 - 2016 they went 518 - 593 - 167. That's second worst in the league for 17 years. They had 2 #1 picks; 3 #2 picks; 1 each #3, #4, #7, and #10; 2 each #8 and #9. That's 13 top ten picks with an overall playoff record of 0 - 8. Fan-fucking-tastic to have to live through that if your a fan of theirs.

    Fuck rebuilding, I'd rather watch playoff hockey.
    Last edited by Long live the King; 01-05-2018 at 03:48 PM.

  20. #40
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    I don't see Kreider returning this season No way they'll take a a chance with this.

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