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Thread: Michael Grabner – What's the Cost of a Unicorn?

  1. #21
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    I don’t keep him. Half of his goals this year are ENG that will pass his contract beyond what he’s worth.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    For like 4m, though?
    I think id rather have Nash at that amount

    And the Rangers can't afford 4m without the cap going up, and getting rid of Miller, Hayes and/or Vesey.
    Literally, no money next offseason
    Around the 3 mark. I would take Nash back at 4, but with Grabner you're not going to think you have to have him on your top two lines. With Nash, for the next few years you have to consider him a top line guy. I think it's time to start to walk away from Nash in that regard. If he comes back, he's gotta know his role is no longer as THE guy. He might wind up on a third line. Grabner should already know that, and is effective in that role as is. No ego, no allegiance. That's not to say I don't like Nash or don't want to bring him back. I would at the right price and if it's clear to him that it's time to get in the back seat. Problem is, you need a player good enough to force him back there.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddynyc View Post
    Very tough decision with Hayes, Miller, Skjei and Vesey all up for new contracts. How do you keep them all ?
    I haven't studied the cap numbers, and I'm not goint to until much closer tot he deadline. But it seems to me the team has to let one or two or a few veterans on the downslope of their career go or they will really pancake the future.

    I hate to lose Grabner but we got two for the best rolls of the dice with him, and his value ought to have increased, and ENG's, while nice to seal a game, are harder to come by in the playoffs, I reckon (but I could be wrong). Jesper Fast could be his heir apparent, as much as you can replace a player as unique as Grabner. If he was young like Hagelin was, I'd have much more of a problem losing him to free agency. I'm still pissed about that.

    His game depends on speed. But a multi year contract seems liek a big risk. I'm leery of the 31+ contracts these days — which is crazy for a 56 year old guy to say as 31-40 still seems young enough to do plenty of damage, jto me, ust ask Jagr, lol.
    Last edited by Respecttheblue; 12-02-2017 at 06:19 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Around the 3 mark. I would take Nash back at 4, but with Grabner you're not going to think you have to have him on your top two lines. With Nash, for the next few years you have to consider him a top line guy. I think it's time to start to walk away from Nash in that regard. If he comes back, he's gotta know his role is no longer as THE guy. He might wind up on a third line. Grabner should already know that, and is effective in that role as is. No ego, no allegiance. That's not to say I don't like Nash or don't want to bring him back. I would at the right price and if it's clear to him that it's time to get in the back seat. Problem is, you need a player good enough to force him back there.
    With Nash, that appears to be precisely our problem. I don't think we have enough top-tier, top-6 talent to do that right now.
    Lemme see ... (Zibs if he can stay unconcussed), the players that come to mind as out best forwards aside from Nash are Kreider, Buch, Hayes, Vesey, Miller, Zucc, and Fast, (Chityl's gonna need time and luck).
    None of them bring what Nash brings in one package, but Buchnevich is improving nicely. We need Vesey to take a leap forward and Miller to progress.
    I'm OK with a young eager and very decently talented team, but it needs another game-breaking talent to get to the promised land, and logically Nash dollars should be banked for signing our future talent. If we can get a #1 pick for him, I think we have to look at it very seriously, especially as the team is likely to try to keep McD -- who is probably the biggest chip we have to dangle for a #1 pick plus.

    But, as many have said before, this team tends to be a buyer not a seller when it sniffs playoffs.
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  5. #25
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    Michael Grabner – What's the Cost of a Unicorn?

    While I sincerely appreciate what Nash brings, consistently too I might add, it still remains all too true that the spin-o-Rama move often fails, the one handed shot while leaning in on the D-man while driving to the crease often fails and at his pay rate more goals should result. Sorry to say but he has to go OR take a major discount to stay a Ranger.

    On the other hand, these ‘faults’ in Nash makes keeping Grabner a much easier decision. It’ll all come down to $$$.
    Last edited by 4EverRangerFrank; 12-03-2017 at 06:11 AM.

  6. #26
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    As noted, as long as AV is around, this guy is a perfect fit. He was the single biggest difference in the Rangers improved performance between 2015-16 and 2016-17. He pulls away like an Nitro Burning Funny Car, and he will last longer than most players due to that speed.

    Tidbit: I've been watching the Rangers for 50 years now (yikes!) and I'm pretty sure that I've never seen a hat trick with two into an empty net. All of these empty netters that he's getting are more than just stat padders though, because many of them are cutting off extended 6 on 5 sequences in the final minute or two, and you know how well we do in those situations...

  7. #27
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    People RIPPED Dubinsky for scoring ENGs. Grabner is the ENG king. His numbers and future contract will be massively inflated.
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    I'm pretty sure all the FO's in the league are well aware of what Grabner is at this point.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    People RIPPED Dubinsky for scoring ENGs. Grabner is the ENG king. His numbers and future contract will be massively inflated.
    That wasn't true until a few weeks ago. He only had 4 last year and even if you include all 10 with this year, he's still near 30 5v5 goals. That doesn't really change anythign in terms of production vs. cost right nwo.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    I'm pretty sure all the FO's in the league are well aware of what Grabner is at this point.
    Yeah, well, I said the same thing about Smith and Shattenkirk heading into last offseason...

    Last thing we need is some GM saying "I'd give Grabner 2m"... and so Gorton offers 5.5x7.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    That wasn't true until a few weeks ago. He only had 4 last year and even if you include all 10 with this year, he's still near 30 5v5 goals. That doesn't really change anythign in terms of production vs. cost right nwo.
    I believe they mean even strength goals, not necessarily 5 on 5. (unless im wrong, but I thought he had a few 4 on 4)

    Dubinsky did get ripped on for ENG... mostly because thats all he did his 2nd to last year in NY. Phil can show you his old "4.4m to kill penalties" sig, if you want. I even went back through all of his goals (one of those seasons) and he only had 3 "meaningful" goals (non EN, scored when team was up by 2, down by 2, etc). So, Dubinsky got ripped for it, but that was a bullet point, not the reason for the criticism.
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  12. #32
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    After watching last night's game, I have to say that Grabner is playing his ass off for this team. He's been nothing short of magnificent. I haven't had a chance to chime in on this thread yet because it may just be too early to say whether you keep a guy like this or deal him away while he's at his peak and could very well help a team win a Stanley Cup. We sure could benefit in what he brings back in return!!

    The way I see it, this team is really not a Stanley Cup contender; Playoffs, yes. They should be able to make the playoffs, but if they get past the first round I think they'd have exceeded my expectations. There's too many glaring weaknesses starting behind the bench and right up through the middle. Our goalie is now past his prime and we have no elite player like a Sid or Jonathan Towes to lead us to the promised land....again this is what I see.

    I believe that when the deadline comes, the Rangers, if they're in the same position they're in right now; that "win one-and look like shit in the next one" mode, I think we should probably do everything we can to get the best bang for our buck and take advantage of trading Grabby for some proven youthful NHL player or possibly a high pick. I'd rather go for proven youth, myself. Picks can be a bust sometimes as we already know!

    In my estimation this team is really not gritty enough, or close to tough enough to weather four 7 game series' in the NHL playoffs. They just don't have the horses, and the funny thing is that as fans, we've all seen what it takes to win a Cup....Question is, Do you actually really think this team has what it takes to win?? Seriously?

    That answer in itself tells me exactly what to do with a guy like Grabner. I don't feel he's going to be a player to "build around", especially at age 30. I could see if he was a Sidney Crosby, or an Ovechkin, of course that's a guy you hang on to for a long time. But a guy like Grabner is going to eventually slow down, and that's more sooner than later at this point in my estimation.

    If things are looking like they are in March like they are now, I think we deal him to a contender and get back some talented, tough and gritty youth. He's an RFA anyway, and why risk losing him for nothing or very little. Especially since he's having a career year. Why not the Rangers deal a guy one year early than sign these so called "saviors" one year too late???

  13. #33
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    If Grabner stays hot, he, like Rick Nash, would bring a big haul at the deadline. But while you don't build around him, necessarily, he's a guy that can be a real good fit for the next few years. It seems like his play has gotten better as he's turned 30, so I don't think we should expect a massive drop off any time soon. If he doesn't ask too much, you certainly try to bring him back.

    But the reality is that this team is as much of a contender as pretty much anybody in the east, even though this board hates that idea. Every team is flawed and the Rangers have been one of the best teams in the league since the end of October. They're far more likely, at this point, to be buyers than sellers at the deadline.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    If Grabner stays hot, he, like Rick Nash, would bring a big haul at the deadline. But while you don't build around him, necessarily, he's a guy that can be a real good fit for the next few years. It seems like his play has gotten better as he's turned 30, so I don't think we should expect a massive drop off any time soon. If he doesn't ask too much, you certainly try to bring him back.

    But the reality is that this team is as much of a contender as pretty much anybody in the east, even though this board hates that idea. Every team is flawed and the Rangers have been one of the best teams in the league since the end of October. They're far more likely, at this point, to be buyers than sellers at the deadline.
    All depends on how the next two months go...I wouldn't be opposed to having a "Hey, we're looking at trading you at the deadline to add extra draft picks for the future, but we're also really interested in bringing you back through free agency" conversation with either of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    All depends on how the next two months go...I wouldn't be opposed to having a "Hey, we're looking at trading you at the deadline to add extra draft picks for the future, but we're also really interested in bringing you back through free agency" conversation with either of them.
    For sure. I think both would be open to returning as well.

  16. #36
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    Yes, he would be viewed as a classic finishing piece for a contender and would bring in quite a loot at the deadline, but I'd hate to trade him. He will resign because he's not dumb, and having found himself in some places where he wasn't a good fit in the past, he's not going to walk from a good situation. You can't understate what he does for this team. His presence on the ice is totally disruptive to the opposition. Just watch: they are always deviating from what they want to do because of him. His wheels should be good for some years. They should not trade him unless they are 28th in the league and in a total rebuild mold.

  17. #37
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    I know what you guys are saying and believe me, I hope he is a good player for a long time. It's just that my belief is that this is the exact type of guy we should trade in order to build from. I agree, he's been nothing short of great, and Future is most likely right, as the Rangers are always buyers at the deadline and always seem to give it a half-assed shot at it no matter what...mostly because Hank is still back there I think.

    That's the way it's going to be, I know that. This thing isn't going to change until 2 things happen:

    Hank either gets dealt or retires, and they get rid of that lump of fail behind the bench.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    I know what you guys are saying and believe me, I hope he is a good player for a long time. It's just that my belief is that this is the exact type of guy we should trade in order to build from. I agree, he's been nothing short of great, and Future is most likely right, as the Rangers are always buyers at the deadline and always seem to give it a half-assed shot at it no matter what...mostly because Hank is still back there I think.

    That's the way it's going to be, I know that. This thing isn't going to change until 2 things happen:

    Hank either gets dealt or retires, and they get rid of that lump of fail behind the bench.
    Well this team will be sellers if they're clearly not a contender at the deadline, regardless of Hank's status. That could mean they're in 10th or dead last, but we'll know by then.

    I just think there's too much talent and too many games that they'll win against good teams to make me think that's realistic, barring more significant injuries.

  19. #39
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    They do have a lot of talent, Future I agree. It's just that I hope that this team takes notice that it's just not built for a long playoff run. They're too soft and I don't think they'll hold up for more than maybe one seven game series. I hope I'm wrong, but even if I am, I think we'll be out-coached by any of the leading contenders.

    But you're right, we'll have to see what this thing looks like in a few months.

  20. #40
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    This team is outplayed way more than they are outcoached.
    The majority of the time, as we've seen the last few games, the team is prepared, and have a game plan that works... they just dont play. Its what happened in the Ottawa series last year.

    We have the talent, guys are just inconsistent.
    So, if we have this team near the trade deadline, and we are in spot to get a playoff spot... theyll be pulling the trigger on a scorer to get them over the hump. If the forwards play consistent hockey, put up good numbers and they score close to expected potential, only then would you see them grabbing a bottom 6 banger.
    This team wears out defenders with speed and skating, not physical play. When these guys focus on physical play, (see Zucarello in the playoffs last season), they abandon what they are good at, dont score, and lose close games by a goal or 2.
    Its a double edged sword.
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