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Thread: At Least 4 Victims Killed After Shooting At School, Other Locations In California

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    At Least 4 Victims Killed After Shooting At School, Other Locations In California

    A shooter in Northern California has killed at least four people in a violent rampage that began at a home and ultimately included seven locations, including an elementary school, officials say.

    The shooter was killed by police, bringing the total death toll to five. Ten people have been hospitalized, authorities say.

    At least two children are among the wounded — a student at Rancho Tehama Elementary School in Tehama County was shot, and another child was shot in a truck along the road, according to county Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston. A woman driving the truck was also shot; all three are being treated.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-in-california


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    Unbelievable RIP

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    "Too early to talk about guns. Prayers and thoughts and us still getting our pockets stuffed by the NRA is the answer"

    Sayeth the GOP

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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    "Too early to talk about guns. Prayers and thoughts and us still getting our pockets stuffed by the NRA is the answer"

    Sayeth the GOP

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    "lets not talk about mental health, or this guys history of mental problems, or his history of violence... he never had these issues because guns were invented!"

    dumb fucking liberals.

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    Re: mental health:

    Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

    These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

    The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.
    Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American, according to a 2015 study by Adam Lankford, a professor at the University of Alabama.
    If mental health made the difference, then data would show that Americans have more mental health problems than do people in other countries with fewer mass shootings. But the mental health care spending rate in the United States, the number of mental health professionals per capita and the rate of severe mental disorders are all in line with those of other wealthy countries.

    A 2015 study estimated that only 4 percent of American gun deaths could be attributed to mental health issues. And Mr. Lankford, in an email, said countries with high suicide rates tended to have low rates of mass shootings — the opposite of what you would expect if mental health problems correlated with mass shootings.
    More gun ownership corresponds with more gun murders across virtually every axis: among developed countries, among American states, among American towns and cities and when controlling for crime rates. And gun control legislation tends to reduce gun murders, according to a recent analysis of 130 studies from 10 countries.

    This suggests that the guns themselves cause the violence.
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/0...m.facebook.com


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    Are we talking mass shootings or any gun violence? Only an issue when its a mass murder. Even though Chicago has had how many die already this year?

    No one seems to want to do anything about inner city violence (liberal lands)

    The large majority of gun crimes are committed by non-NRA members with illegally obtained firearms.




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    And again, no "sane" person goes out and kills someone.

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    There's no way that 4% number is accurate. As of 2013, suicides represented 60% of gun deaths (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...st-gun-deaths/). Isn't suicide always attributed to a mental health issue? That's not to mention the fact that it includes all gun deaths but then tries to connect it to mass shootings. The study should say how many mass shootings can be attributed to mental health, not how many shootings total.

    That sentence you bolded is misleading on purpose.

    Yes, there is a correlation between guns and mass shootings, but lets not act like mental health has nothing to do with it.

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    They should make Fentanyl and Heroin illegal while they're at it. That should solve the Opioid epidemic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    There's no way that 4% number is accurate. As of 2013, suicides represented 60% of gun deaths (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...st-gun-deaths/). Isn't suicide always attributed to a mental health issue? That's not to mention the fact that it includes all gun deaths but then tries to connect it to mass shootings. The study should say how many mass shootings can be attributed to mental health, not how many shootings total.

    That sentence you bolded is misleading on purpose.

    Yes, there is a correlation between guns and mass shootings, but lets not act like mental health has nothing to do with it.
    Yes, when you attempt to copy the demographics of Honduras, you shouldn't be surprised when you get social ills, like Honduras.

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    Just my two cents - but if mental health is the issue, why is America so much worse then every other country with all these mass shootings?

    In Norway as long as I've lived I can recall 1 mass shooting (probably the worst ever done by just 1 man, but thats on the local cops and the feds), just this year in the US I can recall 5 where atleast 3 have been killed.

    We have mental health issues here aswell. Im 20 years now and still never seen a real gun in person, except for people in the military thats normal.

    PS! Dont wanna start a war with anyone. Im just curious to what you people that live in the US think about the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Just my two cents - but if mental health is the issue, why is America so much worse then every other country with all these mass shootings?

    In Norway as long as I've lived I can recall 1 mass shooting (probably the worst ever done by just 1 man, but thats on the local cops and the feds), just this year in the US I can recall 5 where atleast 3 have been killed.

    We have mental health issues here aswell. Im 20 years now and still never seen a real gun in person, except for people in the military thats normal.

    PS! Dont wanna start a war with anyone. Im just curious to what you people that live in the US think about the issue.
    Comparative to size and population, the US isn't too far ahead of other industrialized countries when it comes to mass murders. More likely, mass murderers use guns in US opposed to vehicles or bombs. We hear "mass shootings" because that fits an agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Just my two cents - but if mental health is the issue, why is America so much worse then every other country with all these mass shootings?

    In Norway as long as I've lived I can recall 1 mass shooting (probably the worst ever done by just 1 man, but thats on the local cops and the feds), just this year in the US I can recall 5 where atleast 3 have been killed.

    We have mental health issues here aswell. Im 20 years now and still never seen a real gun in person, except for people in the military thats normal.

    PS! Dont wanna start a war with anyone. Im just curious to what you people that live in the US think about the issue.
    They get famous in America.

    Plus, based on just population size, the US really only has 8 or 9 peers to compare to. I mean, 1 shooter in Norway is the equivalent of 60 in the US. Norway's population is basically the same as Colorado where there has been 3 mass shooting in the last 20 years, but it's also the same as Minnesota and Wisconsin where, off the top of my head, I can't remember any. The actual homicide rate in the US is 94th and, of the top-10 countries based on population, Brazil, India, Mexico, Nigeria, and Russia all have more homicides per year. The US is larger than all of them except India. When you have a larger population, you're going to have more "bad apples." But by and large, the US isn't particularly more violent than most places.

    Also, as a side note, I'm 29 and have never seen a gun other than a hunting rifle or the pistol my grandpa kept locked in his car. I've never shot one.
    Last edited by Future; 11-15-2017 at 11:03 AM.

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    Thanks for the answers. I guess media paints the picture that fits their agenda and sells the most papers/gets most clicks. No one cares about a shooting in the favela's, but a school shooting sells (unfortunately). I think its a problem thats too hard to fix anyway. Psycho's will kill, a law or medical help won't stop them I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Also, as a side note, I'm 29 and have never seen a gun other than a hunting rifle or the pistol my grandpa kept locked in his car. I've never shot one.
    Well, not even cops in Norway got a gun in their car, so I guess that kinda proves a little of my point lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Thanks for the answers. I guess media paints the picture that fits their agenda and sells the most papers/gets most clicks. No one cares about a shooting in the favela's, but a school shooting sells (unfortunately). I think its a problem thats too hard to fix anyway. Psycho's will kill, a law or medical help won't stop them I guess.



    Well, not even cops in Norway got a gun in their car, so I guess that kinda proves a little of my point lol.
    I mean, I'm not quite so nihilistic that I don't think there's any solutions, though I do agree that there is always going to be a crazy or two. But the solution, in my opinion, isn't gun control. It's education and empowerment and breaking bad cycles. Nobody wants to do the legwork on that, so they just blame guns a lot of times.


    I didn't know that. Next time I want to rob a bank, that's where I'm headed lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I mean, I'm not quite so nihilistic that I don't think there's any solutions, though I do agree that there is always going to be a crazy or two. But the solution, in my opinion, isn't gun control. It's education and empowerment and breaking bad cycles. Nobody wants to do the legwork on that, so they just blame guns a lot of times.


    I didn't know that. Next time I want to rob a bank, that's where I'm headed lol
    I think it's both. Guns are obviously not the only (possibly not even the main) reason, but the way I see it, its too easy to buy a gun. Atleast make some rules that u need to pass some hunting and medical test or something like that. I dont know, not easy for me to understand all the values and "traditions" you americans have towards guns, hunting etc, so I wont talk to much about it.

    But yeah, short of cash come here. Especially around holidays. The biggest robbery in the country was around easter, because they knew the cops would be understaffed lol. They did it in 2004, all got caught, but everyone is free now (even the guy that shot and killed a police officer), and over 5m dollars undiscovered, so they got life covered now lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOKAS_robbery (if you want to read about it lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    I think it's both. Guns are obviously not the only (possibly not even the main) reason, but the way I see it, its too easy to buy a gun. Atleast make some rules that u need to pass some hunting and medical test or something like that. I dont know, not easy for me to understand all the values and "traditions" you americans have towards guns, hunting etc, so I wont talk to much about it.

    But yeah, short of cash come here. Especially around holidays. The biggest robbery in the country was around easter, because they knew the cops would be understaffed lol. They did it in 2004, all got caught, but everyone is free now (even the guy that shot and killed a police officer), and over 5m dollars undiscovered, so they got life covered now lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOKAS_robbery (if you want to read about it lol).
    I don't understand the "values" or whatever either but there are plenty of folks who need their guns to hunt and eat (not assault rifles, mind you). I think that guns should be registered but don't think our government is competent enough to do it lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Until these posts I thought you were an intelligent and rational person.

    Disappointed, Mr Trump

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    I dont listen to President Trump. I draw my own conclusions and not worry what someone is telling me to think, or if my beliefs both some lib on a message board trying to force his ignorant political position onto others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    I think it's both. Guns are obviously not the only (possibly not even the main) reason, but the way I see it, its too easy to buy a gun. Atleast make some rules that u need to pass some hunting and medical test or something like that. I dont know, not easy for me to understand all the values and "traditions" you americans have towards guns, hunting etc, so I wont talk to much about it.

    But yeah, short of cash come here. Especially around holidays. The biggest robbery in the country was around easter, because they knew the cops would be understaffed lol. They did it in 2004, all got caught, but everyone is free now (even the guy that shot and killed a police officer), and over 5m dollars undiscovered, so they got life covered now lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOKAS_robbery (if you want to read about it lol).
    First, the majority of the gun-related crimes in the US are from illegal guns (depending on which stats, you are looking at upward of 80%). More regulation is just going to increase that number. Again, criminals dont follow laws, so more regulation isnt going to stop it. Second, we have discriminatory laws against certain tests when it comes to guaranteed rights. Certain tests would probably eliminate certain groups of people, resulting in "discrimination".

    Its just an overall lacking of societal needs. The most recent rampager - he was just in jail, has a history of domestic abuse, neighbors saying he was always getting in fights and shooting off guns, he was a marijuana grower, history of mental illness... family didnt do anything (bailed him out of jail), sheriff ignored the case... no one is looking out for one another. Even here, we have BLM vs Police, and all that crap. We arent taught how to function, how to look out for one another. You cant say "hey, this guy has lost his mind, I fear hes going to go on a killing rampage" without getting labeled an asshole, even though you are trying to help out. What good will more laws do if we dont enforce them? What good is mental help when you cant identify it?

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