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Thread: How Bold is Too Bold to Fix the Rangers' D?

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    Junior Member ClearedForContact's Avatar
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    How Bold is Too Bold to Fix the Rangers' D?

    At this point, considering the rarity of firing a coach so early in the season, the more likely move is a trade. Chris Kreiderís name has been kicked around but heís probably the closest thing the Rangers have to untouchable. Along with Pavel Buchnevich and Mika Zibanejad, the return for Kreider is unlikely to match the value he gives this team.

    If Friedman is right and the Rangers want picks and donít want any part of the ďdreaded middle,Ē then moving a back-end piece, ironically, might be the play. No matter how untouchable the KZB line may be, New Yorkís most valuable pieces are Ryan McDonagh and Brady Skjei as both would fetch massive returns. Maybe the answer to the woefully deficient defense is actually to just tear the whole thing down. That would also qualify as bold.

    Depending on which way this team wants to move, trading one of Mac or Skjei could make sense. If Gorton is set on making a move for the future, then does he consider trading the captain? If he wants to win now, does flipping Skjei for another top center help?

    Without a doubt, McDonagh would net an enormous return and expedite a rebuild like no other player on this team. Plus, heís going to get awfully expensive after next season and weíd have to expect the Rangers to compensate a bit for the team-friendly deal he signed in 2013. The market would be prime for McDonagh and Toronto makes sense in a swap for, say, Mitch Marner. There could be value in bringing back a young middle-six scorer as well as a top-flight D prospect. The risk in moving Mac is that, even though heís a #1D in the way that Stepan was a #1C, the Rangers donít have a prospect ready to take the reigns and thereís no guarantee that theyíll be able to find another one. That would become a focal point of the rebuild.

    If Gorton accepts just picks in exchange for his best trade chip, coupled with dealing Rick Nash at the deadline, the Rangers could easily have five first-round picks in the next two years to couple with Lias Andersson and Filip Chytil. Thatís a strong start to a rebuild, especially with a lot of pieces already in place. And letís not forget that, even though the context was different, the last time the Rangers traded a captain, they made it to the Cup Final.

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    Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
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    At this point, I think I'm tired of trying to make this particular version of the Rangers work (The AV/Lundqvist/Nash/McDonagh era). I also believe that if the Rangers go the "tear-it-down" route that it will take about 3-5 seasons to rebuild it properly. That means no "GO FOR IT" trades, and stick to the rebuild plans.

    We've never done that in the 46 years I've been watching this team.

    As it stands now, I think I could totally go for it though; Aside from last night's game in Tampa which actually held my attention for 3 periods for the first time all year, I actually liked the game we played as a unit.

    Yeah, we're too damn soft and when Kampfer is your only tough guy, you really have to re-evalute the toughness factor of the team. The first quarter of this season leads me to see very little or no hope for this team we have currently. The games are about as exciting as watching grass grow, and there's nothing to even positively pull from it...especially when your coach continues to misuse the youthful and upcoming players like Buchnevich and others. (that's my opinion)

    I'm no fan of this coach by any means and on our former website I tore him a new ass on a regular basis. I don't think these players actually "like" to play for him. He has no style of play, doesn't seem to grasp how to match lines, and simply hides all his weak points with that "We're just gonna roll our 4 lines" bullshit story.

    Bottom line...yeah! Tear it down and gimme some promising, youthful players that want to play Rangers hockey again! Get rid of this whole regime and I don't care if it takes 3-5 years to do. Yeah, I'll watch every single game, but I want MY Rangers back!

    ...and every game I just keep hoping someone is going to throw cold water on these guys, they're going to wake up, and hit, skate and play like they mean it. Maybe I oughtta have my head examined....'cause it ain't happenin' with this guy behind the bench, and definitely not with this bunch of softies!

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    I think the Leafs have proven that the 3-5 year window can be dramatically shortened to as much as a single season (but more likely two) provided you're lucky enough to land a generational star in the draft. Luckily for the Rangers' woes, Rasmus Dahlin sure as hell seems like one.

    Like Mike mentioned in the article, if you are systematic in how you tear this version down, you can really fast-track this thing. Say, for example, McDonagh is moved to Toronto (something that actually makes a lot of sense). You're getting a first-round pick out of that, if not two (depending on whether they'd move, say, someone like Mitch Marner in the deal as well as a conditional first contingent on Cup success). Nash can get you another. That's upward of three first-rounders for this coming draft, which the Rangers actually still hold their own pick for. That's as many as six first-round selections, one of which could be a lottery pick, plus Chytil and Andersson, and two years.
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    Member Mite Division Ozzy's Avatar
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    I like your thinking Phil! I'm hoping Gorton can make that kind of thing happen! We really need to get this thing back on track.

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    Deangelo was a first too. Adding 2 firsts plus our own from this draft with a McDonagh and Nash trade opens so many doors. Our D will stabilize with the guys we have in the system already. Lets make the rangers great again.....

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    it's hard for me to separate the d from goaltending. you need more consistently good goaltending along with better defensemen play to feel better about what’s going on in our end
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    it's hard for me to separate the d from goaltending. you need more consistently good goaltending along with better defensemen play to feel better about what’s going on in our end
    You hit right to the heart of the matter. Hank has had a few good games, but we need more consistency from him. AND we need the defensemen to play better in our own zone. The forwards have to pick up their D, backcheck and forecheck too.

    Look at the difference in the way Nieves and Buch pressure versus DD. The other night everyone blamed Shattenkirk when he had his man. That goal was all on Kreider, who left his man and coverage to chase the puck, leaving the pass wide open. That can be fixed, though they do need a C.

    The D is a personell and coaching issue. Goaltending is age.

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    Iím all for rebuilding this team. Miller and buch. Are the only guys I would like to see stay. The rest I donít care about.


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    I think moving McD sends a message to the roster. Times up. I love the idea of moving McD for Marner or Nylander. Absolutely LOVE IT.

    Skjei becomes the top guy. I feel as of now he IS the top guy. I really don't want to give McD his next contract. Not so much for the cost. But the term. He's not going to take a 3 or4 year deal. He's getting at least 6.

    There's gotta be a decent D man available via free agency this summer. That's if they even need to go that route. People seem convinced that Graves and Pionk can play in the NHL. The Rangers are going to have to go with youth on the blue line.

    Trading McD, Nash, Smith, and maybe even Zucc, clears TONS of cap space. They could maybe make a play for Tavares with all that money. A top six including names like Zib, Kreider, Miller, Buch Tavares Marner/Nylander is down right scary good.

    The more I think about it, the more it makes sense and is exciting to think about the possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I think moving McD sends a message to the roster. Times up. I love the idea of moving McD for Marner or Nylander. Absolutely LOVE IT.
    Thank you, I was inspired by the Toronto fans talking about getting a real #1D for one of the two. Besides tanking (Blah) and getting very lucky in the lottery, this is the best way I could think of to get a potential gamebreaking teenage forward. Additionally, preventing the Rangers from signing him to an 8 year 60 mil contract.

    Skjei becomes the top guy. I feel as of now he IS the top guy. I really don't want to give McD his next contract. Not so much for the cost. But the term. He's not going to take a 3 or4 year deal. He's getting at least 6.
    You got it all right except the term. If he gets 7, it will be considered a concession.

    There's gotta be a decent D man available via free agency this summer.
    Calvin de haan is our guy. I'd consider Jon Moore. Both 26.

    That's if they even need to go that route. People seem convinced that Graves and Pionk can play in the NHL.
    We need to see them under fire. If just 1 is a GOOD 3rd pair guy, we are psyched. I think Graves is gonna be that by next year. Pionk looked good in preseason. We'll see.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 11-05-2017 at 12:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    it's hard for me to separate the d from goaltending. you need more consistently good goaltending along with better defensemen play to feel better about what’s going on in our end
    You're not going to get good goaltending without good structure on D. That's pretty much par for the course across the league. Carey Price's numbers are also horrible - and that's because of the clown car of defenders in front of him, not because his play has slipped.

    It's impossible to play goalie at a high level when you don't trust that your defense is A) going to prevent cross-crease passes B) keep guys out of your crease and C) not stop opponents from getting to rebounds first. Hank has to worry about all three of those and that makes the routine saves a lot more difficult.

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    Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Carey price has slipped. He constantly loses his net right now and is not playing like himself. Could some of that be because of the structure in front of him of course. However price has not been up to par himself and he's only making the situation worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Carey price has slipped. He constantly loses his net right now and is not playing like himself. Could some of that be because of the structure in front of him of course. However price has not been up to par himself and he's only making the situation worse.
    This is true, unfortunately I'm closer to Montreal than Future. Price is not in the lineup due to a "minor injury". Yet, every reporter and insider is saying they want to give Price a 'Hank type' week off to get his game back. Friday one source was saying the Habs wanted Price to "start from scratch and break things down to the basics and approach it as a restart to the season".

    If you think Hank's contract is bad, Price's 8 year monster doesn't even begin till next year.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 11-06-2017 at 11:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Carey price has slipped. He constantly loses his net right now and is not playing like himself. Could some of that be because of the structure in front of him of course. However price has not been up to par himself and he's only making the situation worse.
    Not being up to par is basically a goal a game. Not trusting the defense in front of you can absolutely do that, especially in a small sample.

    It's not some physical decline, just as it isn't for Hank.
    Last edited by Future; 11-06-2017 at 12:10 PM.

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    How Bold is Too Bold to Fix the Rangers' D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Not being up to par is basically a goal a game. Not trusting the defense in front of you can absolutely do that, especially in a small sample.

    It's not some physical decline, just as it isn't for Hank.
    This canít all be blamed on the defense. Hank simply isnít the goaltender he once was....and this decline has been going on for a while.
    More often than not we out chance and outshoot our opponents only to have the 2nd best goaltender in the league.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    This can’t all be blamed on the defense. Hank simply isn’t the goaltender he once was....and this decline has been going on for a while.
    More often than not we out chance and outshoot our opponents only to have the 2nd best goaltender in the league.


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    Not all of it, but it's not a physical decline. It's a mental issue. His sv% on high danger chances is fine. It's the soft stuff that's problematic and that's not physical. So either Hank somehow lost his ability to focus or he's cheating and thinking a step ahead because he distrusts the defense.

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    He's cheating because of his physical decline.
    Same with Price.

    Hank has talked about it over the last few seasons. He's using different techniques to stay in shape, and making alterations to his game because he's not as fit as he was in his 20s.

    Price is nearing that crosssroads as well, especially with his injury history.

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    When did he say that? Before the season he said he trained for this year the same as he does every year.

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    Constantly.
    This year he focused on getting his weight down. In the past he stressed flexibility, movement, strength or conditioning, depending how the previous season went and where he wants to be, physically.

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    Constantly? Link?

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