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Thread: No Simple Solutions for the Rangers

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    Junior Member ClearedForContact's Avatar
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    No Simple Solutions for the Rangers

    Wait until Thanksgiving. That is typically the rule of thumb for evaluating a team as it gives them 20 to 25 games to find themselves, sort out any problems, and set a course for the rest of the season. However, when you’re the New York Rangers, a team that year-after-year expects to not only make the playoffs but also to challenge for the Stanley Cup, you don’t get as much leeway – especially when you just signed the summer’s biggest free agent. So let’s just say we’ll be celebrating Thanksgiving a little early this year.

    At the time of this writing, the Rangers are in 28th place, sitting on a 2-6-2 record. They’ve got themselves a pitiful minus-11 goal differential due to the fact they’ve given up 3.50 goals per game (23rd) and they’ve only scored 2.50 goals per game (27th). Oh, they’ve also killed 77.8% of their penalties (22nd). But there’s not much to worry about because there’s plenty of time left in the season, right?!

    The Rangers need to play at the level they did last season in order to just barely make it into the playoffs, assuming playoff point projections are correct. It doesn’t sound wholly unreasonable to think that can happen. But, what about the first 10 games makes you believe the Rangers can “flip the switch” and play at a 103-point pace rather than the 25-point pace they’ve been playing at?

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    Senior Member Bantam Division paddynyc's Avatar
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    Thanksgiving gives the Rangers about 5 weeks to straighten out their game. If they continue their current trend then AV will be gone within 2 weeks and with the hope Ruff can turn things around. Other than changing the head coach you are correct there isn't a simple solution.
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    The pace they'd have to play at just to make the lower end of the playoff spectrum is insane, though. Really, tomorrow's game is, IMO, the fulcrum. A loss there and you almost have to change coaches to see if a new voice can't right the ship.

    But I also believe that it's an issue of composition more than coaching, and I have no faith at all in Lindy Ruff or Scott Arniel to get blood from this stone.
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    Member Mite Division Fatfrancesa's Avatar
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    Easy fix. Stop acting like the window is open and rebuild. Not on the fly not half assed but go all the way. Immediately fire the coach who cannot develop young players and can only get 20 minutes of decent effort from his players. Rebuild the culture that this coach has dismantled year after year. Bring back the desire to play a mans game. Let players "wear themselves out" or whatever the fools complained about with the prior coach. Yes that's right give me a team that tries to hard every night from the one who doesn't compete period by period. Respect the uniform

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    No Simple Solutions for the Rangers

    That's not actually easy. It's easy for us to say. That's often the kind of decision that costs people their jobs.

    I actually would welcome a tear down and real rebuild that comes through a lottery pick (Rasmus fucking Dahlin). I'm not so sure the Rangers FO would, though. It's beyond the Lundqvist thing, too. They just bought Shattenkirk. Zibanejad just signed his extension. McDonagh is up soon. This decision would have to be considered and measured against for the long-term impact it might have as part of the fallout, not just the boon of a first overall pick.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Easy fix. Stop acting like the window is open and rebuild. Not on the fly not half assed but go all the way. Immediately fire the coach who cannot develop young players and can only get 20 minutes of decent effort from his players. Rebuild the culture that this coach has dismantled year after year. Bring back the desire to play a mans game. Let players "wear themselves out" or whatever the fools complained about with the prior coach. Yes that's right give me a team that tries to hard every night from the one who doesn't compete period by period. Respect the uniform
    None of these things are easy.

    An all the way rebuild means losing, and lots of losing. The Rangers as an organization don't want that because it means less asses in the seats. The fans think they want it, but watching a team lose constantly just plain sucks... like it does right now. Plus, the team has invested a lot in players like Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Zibanejad, etc. and just throwing seasons away (or even trading some of them) to completely rebuild is a tough pill to swallow.

    Nevertheless, should this season continue to go down the drain, I tend to agree. You look at what they need to do in order to just make the playoffs, we'll find out really soon whether or not it's a realistic option. Should be a really interesting scenario if that's the case. This team has never, ever been sellers at the deadline.

    Oh, and, in my opinion, the only way real change can occur is if the entire Sather regime is ousted. Gorton is just a shadow of Sather. I don't trust him for a second.
    Last edited by Morphinity; 10-26-2017 at 10:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    That's not actually easy. It's easy for us to say. That's often the kind of decision that costs people their jobs.

    I actually would welcome a tear down and real rebuild that comes through a lottery pick (Rasmus fucking Dahlin). I'm not so sure the Rangers FO would, though. It's beyond the Lundqvist thing, too. They just bought Shattenkirk. Zibanejad just signed his extension. McDonagh is up soon. This decision would have to be considered and measured against for the long-term impact it might have as part of the fallout, not just the boon of a first overall pick.


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    Toronto made it much easier for a big market team to do it, while Pittsburgh's and Chicago's repeated success illustrates how important it is for winning a Stanley Cup. Gorton's still new enough in his tenure (and Dolan hands-off enough) that he'd be given the reigns to get the rebuild going. So there is no real job cost here, imo.

    In a full rebuild, you have some options, too. Like this one:

    18/19 - $3.9M
    19/20 - $4.4M
    20/21 - $5.8M
    21/22 - $1.9M
    22/23 - $1.9M
    23/24 - $1.9M

    That's Lundqvist's buyout cap hit. It frees him up to go sign a deal that would give him a couple more kicks at the Stanley Cup can with a legitimate contender, ala Dominic Hasek. Heck, he could go be the backup in Pittsburgh, hook back up with Talbot in Edmonton or try out life in Toronto. Actual Cost to the franchise: 6 years @ $1.9M ($11.4M total). It's really the least the team can do for a Rangers' living legend and allows them to stop pretending they are a competative team because they have an elite goaltender. Give Pavelec the reigns with Nell or Georgiev as backup.

    Nash and Grabner of course can be moved as rentals.

    McDonagh and Zucc can be moved for extra value with a year left on their deals after this one. Either is free to come back to the franchise in 19/20 when they are UFAs again if it makes sense at that time.

    And that, my friends, is how you successfully tank. The team, with those players removed, will be in the draft lottery for at least the next two to three years. And then you've got enough top tier young talent through the draft, a couple of young elite level goaltending prospects ready to start their NHL careers, enough depth young talent (Chytil, Andersson, Day, Pionk, etc) and the veterans (Zib, Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Fast, Vesey, Shattenkirk, Skjei) to put together a legitimate Cup contender again.

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    I don't think you buyout Hank unless you absolutely positively cannot move him.Fuck, offering to eat half his cap hit is way more reasonable. It's only $4.25M until 2021.

    You can't let Lundqvist go without getting assets in return. Despite his downturn in play, he can definitely net a huge return, especially if there's a playoff team at the deadline whose goalie goes down to injury or something.

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    Senior Member Mite Division Costa's Avatar
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    The only reason NOT to tank is to justify those high ticket prices.
    #TankforTkachuk #SuckforSvechnikov #FailforFilip

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    Senior Member Bantam Division Bugg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    The pace they'd have to play at just to make the lower end of the playoff spectrum is insane, though. Really, tomorrow's game is, IMO, the fulcrum. A loss there and you almost have to change coaches to see if a new voice can't right the ship.

    But I also believe that it's an issue of composition more than coaching, and I have no faith at all in Lindy Ruff or Scott Arniel to get blood from this stone.
    If Lundqvist sucks, not much else matters. But you can play dump and grind with big guys like Kreider and Nash camped i f o the net looking for garbage goals. They do not do that,ever,and you have to be told to do that. AV's offense is 4-6 tape to tape passes looking for an open shot. They still managed to outchance SJS but were outworked and badly,. And that's the real problem. There has been the Habs game that had a 60 minute effort and that's it. What ever system you play doesn't matter if you're gonna skate around like a bunch of kids at open skate waiting for mommy to get you hot cocoa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Toronto made it much easier for a big market team to do it, while Pittsburgh's and Chicago's repeated success illustrates how important it is for winning a Stanley Cup. Gorton's still new enough in his tenure (and Dolan hands-off enough) that he'd be given the reigns to get the rebuild going. So there is no real job cost here, imo.

    In a full rebuild, you have some options, too. Like this one:

    18/19 - $3.9M
    19/20 - $4.4M
    20/21 - $5.8M
    21/22 - $1.9M
    22/23 - $1.9M
    23/24 - $1.9M

    That's Lundqvist's buyout cap hit. It frees him up to go sign a deal that would give him a couple more kicks at the Stanley Cup can with a legitimate contender, ala Dominic Hasek. Heck, he could go be the backup in Pittsburgh, hook back up with Talbot in Edmonton or try out life in Toronto. Actual Cost to the franchise: 6 years @ $1.9M ($11.4M total). It's really the least the team can do for a Rangers' living legend and allows them to stop pretending they are a competative team because they have an elite goaltender. Give Pavelec the reigns with Nell or Georgiev as backup.

    Nash and Grabner of course can be moved as rentals.

    McDonagh and Zucc can be moved for extra value with a year left on their deals after this one. Either is free to come back to the franchise in 19/20 when they are UFAs again if it makes sense at that time.

    And that, my friends, is how you successfully tank. The team, with those players removed, will be in the draft lottery for at least the next two to three years. And then you've got enough top tier young talent through the draft, a couple of young elite level goaltending prospects ready to start their NHL careers, enough depth young talent (Chytil, Andersson, Day, Pionk, etc) and the veterans (Zib, Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Fast, Vesey, Shattenkirk, Skjei) to put together a legitimate Cup contender again.
    They're gonna lead the NHL in dead cap money anyway so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Toronto made it much easier for a big market team to do it, while Pittsburgh's and Chicago's repeated success illustrates how important it is for winning a Stanley Cup. Gorton's still new enough in his tenure (and Dolan hands-off enough) that he'd be given the reigns to get the rebuild going. So there is no real job cost here, imo.

    In a full rebuild, you have some options, too. Like this one:

    18/19 - $3.9M
    19/20 - $4.4M
    20/21 - $5.8M
    21/22 - $1.9M
    22/23 - $1.9M
    23/24 - $1.9M

    That's Lundqvist's buyout cap hit. It frees him up to go sign a deal that would give him a couple more kicks at the Stanley Cup can with a legitimate contender, ala Dominic Hasek. Heck, he could go be the backup in Pittsburgh, hook back up with Talbot in Edmonton or try out life in Toronto. Actual Cost to the franchise: 6 years @ $1.9M ($11.4M total). It's really the least the team can do for a Rangers' living legend and allows them to stop pretending they are a competative team because they have an elite goaltender. Give Pavelec the reigns with Nell or Georgiev as backup.

    Nash and Grabner of course can be moved as rentals.

    McDonagh and Zucc can be moved for extra value with a year left on their deals after this one. Either is free to come back to the franchise in 19/20 when they are UFAs again if it makes sense at that time.

    And that, my friends, is how you successfully tank. The team, with those players removed, will be in the draft lottery for at least the next two to three years. And then you've got enough top tier young talent through the draft, a couple of young elite level goaltending prospects ready to start their NHL careers, enough depth young talent (Chytil, Andersson, Day, Pionk, etc) and the veterans (Zib, Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Fast, Vesey, Shattenkirk, Skjei) to put together a legitimate Cup contender again.
    If Hank isn't good enough to win with, and we're Mali g those trades, drafting high, and playing kids, then we don't need to buy Hank out. At least not yet. We won't need the cap savings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If Hank isn't good enough to win with, and we're Mali g those trades, drafting high, and playing kids, then we don't need to buy Hank out. At least not yet. We won't need the cap savings.
    Hank isn't good enough to win with for us. But we can let him go try to win with a much better club at a significantly lower cap hit. Getting out from under that fourth year at $8.5M might be important. $1.9M is much easier to manage in 21/22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Hank isn't good enough to win with for us. But we can let him go try to win with a much better club at a significantly lower cap hit. Getting out from under that fourth year at $8.5M might be important. $1.9M is much easier to manage in 21/22.
    I'd much rather just have that convo with him, and if that's the case he can waive and we can trade him.

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    Junior Member zman's Avatar
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    I didn't know where else to post this, but my concern is a trend that is becoming more noticeable over the last 1-2 years...

    Early period goal, late period goals and tying goals at the end of the game. Its as if it's crept into all of their heads now. Whats the answer for that, a team psychologist? It feels like they're expecting it. Is that coaching?
    A tear down would help that i guess.

    Is it just me, or roughly 5 years ago, if the Rangers had a 1 goal lead in the 3rd, it was lock down. Now, it's hold your breath, and here it comes. I think the first time i remember it starting was against washington 2 or 3 years ago, when Ovi slammed boyle into the boards and i think Ward scored a goal with a few seconds left. Then the whole season 2 years ago, and of course last year with Ottawa.
    I think this years team is better than last. And the record doesn't reflect their skill. The shooting percentage is way down so far and will likely pick up as the other teams slow down. But if these late game tying goals and early period goals don't get fixed, and i have no idea how, whats the point. It really feels psychological at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zman View Post
    I didn't know where else to post this, but my concern is a trend that is becoming more noticeable over the last 1-2 years...

    Early period goal, late period goals and tying goals at the end of the game. Its as if it's crept into all of their heads now. Whats the answer for that, a team psychologist? It feels like they're expecting it. Is that coaching?
    A tear down would help that i guess.

    Is it just me, or roughly 5 years ago, if the Rangers had a 1 goal lead in the 3rd, it was lock down. Now, it's hold your breath, and here it comes. I think the first time i remember it starting was against washington 2 or 3 years ago, when Ovi slammed boyle into the boards and i think Ward scored a goal with a few seconds left. Then the whole season 2 years ago, and of course last year with Ottawa.
    I think this years team is better than last. And the record doesn't reflect their skill. The shooting percentage is way down so far and will likely pick up as the other teams slow down. But if these late game tying goals and early period goals don't get fixed, and i have no idea how, whats the point. It really feels psychological at this point.
    I think a lot of it is psychological, yea.

    The thing is, they don't do anything differently now than they did under Torts. They never blew a one-goal lead with him - Actually I think they set some sort of NHL record for holding leads - but they turtled just as much. Just, for whatever reason, pucks didn't end up in the back of the net as often.

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    Senior Member Squirt Division 4EverRangerFrank's Avatar
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    And who will pay for our therapists? The fans need mental help as well with the way this season has gone so far.

    I'm keeping the faith no matter what. Keep me entertained and give an honest attempt to win by giving it 100% every game. There's no 'life or death' stuff here although it is tough to see that sometimes when you are an invested fan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    You really are Francesa.

    And BTW if the Rangers or any NY team followed your FIRE EVERYBODY approach, especially after 10 games of an 82 game season, Fatso on the FAN would be the first one RANTING and RAVING after the first losing season of "rebuilding"

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
    More criticism, which is fine, it makes the place fun but what about some opinion and thought?

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    Senior Member Squirt Division Nicky Fotiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    The pace they'd have to play at just to make the lower end of the playoff spectrum is insane, though. Really, tomorrow's game is, IMO, the fulcrum. A loss there and you almost have to change coaches to see if a new voice can't right the ship.

    But I also believe that it's an issue of composition more than coaching, and I have no faith at all in Lindy Ruff or Scott Arniel to get blood from this stone.
    The pace stuff is scary this early in a season but there is no reason a good team can not make up 2-4 points in 71 games.

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    Senior Member Squirt Division 4EverRangerFrank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Fotiu View Post
    The pace stuff is scary this early in a season but there is no reason a good team can not make up 2-4 points in 71 games.
    Operative phrase: ‘good team’

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