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Thread: It's Time to Move Kreider

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Right? On the flip side, it will get life again once he goes through a cold spell lol

    The problem with Kreider is that he tends to go invisible when he's not scoring. He's not consistently a threat on the rush or a physical presence along the boards. For someone with his physical ability, those parts of his game should always be there.
    The problem was that when he did play physical, because he is so string, he was getting called for the hits.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    The consistency is what differentiates first line players from second line players. He’s a second line player, and a good one. What “consistent” second liner would you move Kreider for?


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    I'd classify him as a complimentary first line player. similar to how I'd classify most power forwards. He needs linemates on their game to be effective - and the last 2 weeks, Zibanejad and Buchnevich have been more consistent with their 5 on 5 play. Kreider is able to help them maintain that level with his finishing, skating, pressure and getting to the net. He's not a guy that can carry a line by himself.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Right? On the flip side, it will get life again once he goes through a cold spell lol

    The problem with Kreider is that he tends to go invisible when he's not scoring. He's not consistently a threat on the rush or a physical presence along the boards. For someone with his physical ability, those parts of his game should always be there.
    This is the disconnect between pantsy stats and observing.
    Yes, sure, there are games where he struggles, but that doesnt mean hes completely invisible when hes not scoring. defensive zone - yeah, and that will always be an issue.

    Defensemen know when hes on the ice, they cheat getting back, they dont take chances in their own zone - moving the puck quickly behind the net to avoid pressure, and they definitely pay attention to what hes doing in front of the net. Similar to what Nash was doing when he was cold. Sometimes these things dont show up in the box score, and its hard to notice if you dont know what you are looking at, but hes still causing the defenders to work, and creating room for his linemates.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I'd classify him as a complimentary first line player. similar to how I'd classify most power forwards. He needs linemates on their game to be effective - and the last 2 weeks, Zibanejad and Buchnevich have been more consistent with their 5 on 5 play. Kreider is able to help them maintain that level with his finishing, skating, pressure and getting to the net. He's not a guy that can carry a line by himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    This is the disconnect between pantsy stats and observing.
    Yes, sure, there are games where he struggles, but that doesnt mean hes completely invisible when hes not scoring. defensive zone - yeah, and that will always be an issue.

    Defensemen know when hes on the ice, they cheat getting back, they dont take chances in their own zone - moving the puck quickly behind the net to avoid pressure, and they definitely pay attention to what hes doing in front of the net. Similar to what Nash was doing when he was cold. Sometimes these things dont show up in the box score, and its hard to notice if you dont know what you are looking at, but hes still causing the defenders to work, and creating room for his linemates.

    I think those are solid distinctions. Sometimes a player can be that 2nd line player who can work on a top line in a variety of situations, and as long as he is bringing the tangible/intangibles to the table.

    Unfortunately — or fortunately for BSBH — we are drawn like moths to a flame, or wide-mouth bass to a piece of bait, to trade proposals either in support or in disagreement. I rise to the bait, too, lol, but felt I needed to lend some support to Kreider who I think gets a bad rep too often here and is comparatively undervalued and comparatively difficult to replace in the genre of player that he is.
    Last edited by Respecttheblue; 11-10-2017 at 01:09 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    The consistency is what differentiates first line players from second line players. He’s a second line player, and a good one. What “consistent” second liner would you move Kreider for?
    Interesting point.
    Not too many, the ones off the top of my head...

    Logan Couture
    Vinnie Trocheck
    Brayden Point
    Marner is a 4th liner
    Ehlers and Laine are on the 2nd line but they shouldn't count. Neither should Barzal.

    BTW, consistent or not, I'd pull the trigger on those 7. Would anyone disagree with any of them?

    RNH has some merit. Interesting, good fit, but no.
    Jaden Schwartz is very tempting but he's been promoted to the 1st line.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 11-10-2017 at 01:51 PM.

  6. #106
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    i think the Blues would jump all over that.

  7. #107
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    It's Time to Move Kreider

    Can’t help but like the guy again when he begins to produce and takes off the cloak of invisibility. He talks a good game, says he needs to be in on every play every shift but doesn’t follow through.

    Ok, ONE MORE CHANCE Kreids, one more shift of thoughts to ‘you’re a keeper’ and let you stay. But if you slip up again and pull another Casper — you are gone!! I mean it this time.
    *sarcasm*

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty9 View Post
    i think the Blues would jump all over that.
    Surprised you think so. I don't think the Blues touch that with a 10 foot poll.

    * It's possible that outside St Louis, Jaden is one of the most underrated players in the entire league. The guy gets zero hype, but does so many hockey things well. Contributions that go unnoticed by the casual observer.

    * He has been a critical part of the Blues great start, even with key injuries.

    * Just turned 25, plays both C and LW. Currently 4th in the NHL in scoring. 17GP 9G 12A 21P +14

    * He never makes a dumb play or takes a bad penalty, great at positioning, good defender, sweet stickhandler and passer, even better w/o the puck, makes everybody on the ice better consistently.

    * He looked excellent in the last 2 playoffs and is killing it again this year. He does everything very well and consistently. Fun to watch.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 11-11-2017 at 04:06 PM.

  9. #109
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    Schwartz is basically a more offensively-talented and faster Stepan that can play wing and center. Smart player, good playmaker, and agreed with Giacomin very underrated.

    My point was that a 1 for 1 deal would not produce anything better than Kreider. The people here see him play every night, but they don't see the other players every night. It's the same story: inconsistent, dominant some nights and invisible others. That's what separates 1st liners from 2nd liners. The skill sets are similar, if not slightly off. It's the ability to do it night in and night out. Kreider isn't the only, or probably not the most frustrating, player in the league who does this.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Schwartz is basically a more offensively-talented and faster Stepan that can play wing and center. Smart player, good playmaker, and agreed with Giacomin very underrated.

    My point was that a 1 for 1 deal would not produce anything better than Kreider. The people here see him play every night, but they don't see the other players every night. It's the same story: inconsistent, dominant some nights and invisible others. That's what separates 1st liners from 2nd liners. The skill sets are similar, if not slightly off. It's the ability to do it night in and night out. Kreider isn't the only, or probably not the most frustrating, player in the league who does this.
    It's also not easy to bring that same intensity every game. It has nothing to donwith effort, heart, or passion. Regardless of their salaries, the players are not robots. There are so many factors we don't see or know about. There's something going on in every room with 1 or more guys. Every athlete in every sport, at every level, goes through highs, lows, and mediocrity. It's life. If a guy is constant dog shit for 2 years, different story. That's not usually the case though, and isn't the case with Kreider at all.
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  11. #111
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    Started this thread a month ago. He hit the score sheet and started playing more physical the next day.... (LOL you're welcome)

    He's had a really good month and I'm glad he's playing somewhere close to his potential. Hopefully he maintains this aggressive play and maybe gets even better.

    This team is almost running on all cylinders. That's some winning streak. How do we feel about how they stack up now, as opposed to a month ago?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Started this thread a month ago. He hit the score sheet and started playing more physical the next day.... (LOL you're welcome)

    He's had a really good month and I'm glad he's playing somewhere close to his potential. Hopefully he maintains this aggressive play and maybe gets even better.

    This team is almost running on all cylinders. That's some winning streak. How do we feel about how they stack up now, as opposed to a month ago?
    Team wise, they are playing much closer to 60 minutes now, as where they were only playing ~20 minutes a night, earlier in the season. And, as much as people will ignore it - they are playing AVs system. When they come out, together, and skate, they are a good team. Its when they come out, dont move their feet, they are not effective. Kreider is a perfect person to watch, and he exemplifies that. When hes moving, he creates trouble and scoring chances. When he's standing around watching, he looks bad, lost and detrimental. Unfortunately, we have a lot of those guys. Overall, the consistency from shift to shift, game to game and improved. Still need to get 5 on 5 play to where it needs to be, as the PP is allowing us to neglect some issues.

    To me, I think this is closer to where I expected them to be, looking at how they were a month ago. I said back then, the team was in most games, just didnt play the full time and came out on the wrong end. Now, they are trying and getting rewarded with some bounces in their favor.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    It's also not easy to bring that same intensity every game. It has nothing to donwith effort, heart, or passion. Regardless of their salaries, the players are not robots. There are so many factors we don't see or know about. There's something going on in every room with 1 or more guys. Every athlete in every sport, at every level, goes through highs, lows, and mediocrity. It's life. If a guy is constant dog shit for 2 years, different story. That's not usually the case though, and isn't the case with Kreider at all.




  14. #114
    Junior Member Mite Division Sod16's Avatar
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    His uneven play reminds me of Kovy, but his propensity to turn it up when it matters most reminds me of Kovy as well. Everyone crowed about Marty St.L inspiring the Rangers and turning around that Pittsburgh series. I think about #20, coming back off an injury, scoring a one man PP goal, when we had been like 0-34, that set the tone for game 5 and the rest of the series. How about the tying goal with the goalie pulled in Game 6 of the Caps series in 2015? Or how about that herculean effort in the third period of game 6 of the Ottawa series last year that Larry Brooks talks about once a week? I don't care if he sleep walks through a third of the regular season, doesn't score off the rush, gets 28 goals for the year when he could get 43 etc. I don't think a trade for him would bring something that would help us more and he has usually performed best in the clutch.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Started this thread a month ago. He hit the score sheet and started playing more physical the next day.... (LOL you're welcome)

    He's had a really good month and I'm glad he's playing somewhere close to his potential. Hopefully he maintains this aggressive play and maybe gets even better.

    This team is almost running on all cylinders. That's some winning streak. How do we feel about how they stack up now, as opposed to a month ago?
    Next player that goes through a cold spell we'll make sure that you start up a thread about trading that guy!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Next player that goes through a cold spell we'll make sure that you start up a thread about trading that guy!
    Seems to work. I complain that Holden and Kamfer are playing over Smith and the team goes on a winning streak.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Seems to work. I complain that Holden and Kamfer are playing over Smith and the team goes on a winning streak.
    Make a thread complaining that you never win the lottery.

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