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Thread: The Case for Keeping Rick Nash

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Save that 3m for McDonagh
    Do we want to pay him 7.7 at age 30? He's going to have to have a gigantic year of 50+ points this season to get me on board of giving him over 6 mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Do we want to pay him 7.7 at age 30? He's going to have to have a gigantic year of 50+ points this season to get me on board of giving him over 6 mill.
    He'll probably top 50 points playing with Shattenkirk most of the year. Especially if he's on the first PP unit with him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Do we want to pay him 7.7 at age 30? He's going to have to have a gigantic year of 50+ points this season to get me on board of giving him over 6 mill.
    I dont. But I dont hand out the contracts. I think 7.5 give or take a bit is realistic.

    I actually started writing a piece making a case for trading McDonagh... but I got lazy and stopped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    He'll probably top 50 points playing with Shattenkirk most of the year. Especially if he's on the first PP unit with him.
    Even still he's not a $7.5m guy unless he wants to get even for taking a team friendly deal. I think he goes term and longer aav, so we pay him until he's 36 but only around $6m. Something like 6 for $36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    Now it's on to trading Mac. Some ideas are truly perplexing.
    If skjei is a top pair guy after this year and bereglazov looks like a top-4 guy, there are stranger things that could happen.

    I wouldn't be shocked I don't think. Mac doesn't have much upside that skjei doesn't, at this point, especially after next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    He'll probably top 50 points playing with Shattenkirk most of the year. Especially if he's on the first PP unit with him.
    And if he doesn't play with Shattenkirk?

    Heck, if he does, I'm not convinced he reaches.50 points. If he's with Shattenkirk his job remains similar to what it was with Girardii, which was " watch out for Girardis screw ups". I hope Shattenkirk can elevate McD's game like you seem to think he will. I'm holding my breath.

    If he can reach 50 points do YOU give him 7.7 mill? I'm not sure they have to, if the new drpth works out as expected. And if they do, do you trade McD and make a killing? Hell, if they DON'T and the team sucks dick this year, do you deal him and make a killing? (Am I right in assuming his contact is up after this season? I'm going off of what Josh suggested)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONG TIME FAN View Post
    Now it's on to trading Mac. Some ideas are truly perplexing.
    If this team looks like it will finish last in the division and has zero chemistry, I think it would be wise to tear it all down.

    I'm not very excited about this year.

    Losing a first line center and not replacing him, is going to seriously affect this teams offense. That's coming from someone who wasn't a big Stepan fan. But you have to replace him with something comparable or better, and they haven't yet.

    The addition of Shattenkirk and his lack of a solid defensive game could also put this team in an awkward position of having to play him on the 2nd or even 3rd pair... He did it with Yandle.....

    So they are already starting the season with a defensive deficiency at forward and on the back line. They lost a semi competent top line center, but added an offensive D man. I'm not crazy about this recipe at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    And if he doesn't play with Shattenkirk?

    Heck, if he does, I'm not convinced he reaches.50 points. If he's with Shattenkirk his job remains similar to what it was with Girardii, which was " watch out for Girardis screw ups". I hope Shattenkirk can elevate McD's game like you seem to think he will. I'm holding my breath.

    If he can reach 50 points do YOU give him 7.7 mill? I'm not sure they have to, if the new drpth works out as expected. And if they do, do you trade McD and make a killing? Hell, if they DON'T and the team sucks dick this year, do you deal him and make a killing? (Am I right in assuming his contact is up after this season? I'm going off of what Josh suggested)
    McD has two years left

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Do we want to pay him 7.7 at age 30? He's going to have to have a gigantic year of 50+ points this season to get me on board of giving him over 6 mill.
    I'd say definitely not. …. but let's wait until we get there — summer of 2019 — before we make that decision prematurely. (I'm also of the mindset more and more that is looking toward optimizing the moment to cash in those aging trade chips for top draft picks. There's a limit to how much you can avoid it before you become like the NYKnicks)

    To me it looks like this league seems to be demanding more speed from defensemen every year, even those in defensive or hybrid offensive/defensive roles. To risk involved in signing veteran defensemen to $6m+ contracts, as we've seen with G and Staal only seems to be increasing.

    Unfortunately part of the role that's fallen to McDonagh for better or worse, and often for the worse of his dislocated shoulders and body, has been to soak up a tremendous amount of abuse and wear and tear from the other team. The mileage on the poor guy right now is more akin to a 30 year old than a 28 year old right now.

    I hope the old way of quickly issuing these $6.5 million contracts to veteran Dmen will be seriously reevaluated next time it comes around.
    Last edited by Respecttheblue; 09-07-2017 at 05:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    Unfortunately part of the role that's fallen to McDonagh for better or worse, and often for the worse of his dislocated shoulders and body, has been to soak up a tremendous amount of abuse and wear and tear from the other team. The mileage on the poor guy right now is more akin to a 30 year old than a 28 year old right now.
    I don't think I really agree with that. He takes the same amount of abuse as any other number 1 d-man doesn't play nearly as many minutes as other guys. Over the last five seasons, he's not even in the top 20 of TOI and his average TOI is 19th.

    I've always been of the mind that Mac should be playing 25:00 a night, but he hasn't. The top defenseman in the league play 3:00 or 4:00 more a night than him so, in that regard, he's pretty low mileage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I don't think I really agree with that. He takes the same amount of abuse as any other number 1 d-man doesn't play nearly as many minutes as other guys. Over the last five seasons, he's not even in the top 20 of TOI and his average TOI is 19th.

    I've always been of the mind that Mac should be playing 25:00 a night, but he hasn't. The top defenseman in the league play 3:00 or 4:00 more a night than him so, in that regard, he's pretty low mileage.
    Most top defenseman in the league are getting those extra minutes on the PP.
    Most of those defenseman aren't getting the defensive assignments like McD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Most top defenseman in the league are getting those extra minutes on the PP.
    Most of those defenseman aren't getting the defensive assignments like McD
    Maybe in the past. Mac was over 3:00 per game on the PP this season. He gets tougher zone starts than most (Pietrangelo and OEM both had a higher DZS I think), but not tougher assignments. They all face top lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    If this team looks like it will finish last in the division and has zero chemistry, I think it would be wise to tear it all down.

    I'm not very excited about this year.

    Losing a first line center and not replacing him, is going to seriously affect this teams offense. That's coming from someone who wasn't a big Stepan fan. But you have to replace him with something comparable or better, and they haven't yet.

    The addition of Shattenkirk and his lack of a solid defensive game could also put this team in an awkward position of having to play him on the 2nd or even 3rd pair... He did it with Yandle.....

    So they are already starting the season with a defensive deficiency at forward and on the back line. They lost a semi competent top line center, but added an offensive D man. I'm not crazy about this recipe at the moment.
    Pretty much sums up my feelings ATM. Minus the not excited part. It's hockey. Can't wait for it to start.

    I am tempering expectations for this season. And honestly hope to see some young kids make the roster. New faces and new talent would be nice to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    I'd say definitely not. …. but let's wait until we get there — summer of 2019 — before we make that decision prematurely. (I'm also of the mindset more and more that is looking toward optimizing the moment to cash in those aging trade chips for top draft picks. There's a limit to how much you can avoid it before you become like the NYKnicks)

    To me it looks like this league seems to be demanding more speed from defensemen every year, even those in defensive or hybrid offensive/defensive roles. To risk involved in signing veteran defensemen to $6m+ contracts, as we've seen with G and Staal only seems to be increasing.

    Unfortunately part of the role that's fallen to McDonagh for better or worse, and often for the worse of his dislocated shoulders and body, has been to soak up a tremendous amount of abuse and wear and tear from the other team. The mileage on the poor guy right now is more akin to a 30 year old than a 28 year old right now.

    I hope the old way of quickly issuing these $6.5 million contracts to veteran Dmen will be seriously reevaluated next time it comes around.
    McDoanghs games played is very similar to Staal and Girardi 2 seasons ago (When they truly started to fall apart).

    For McDonagh, I dont think the injuries, to this point, have been from playing too many minutes. Most of his injuries (shoulder and head) are from his inability to properly take a hit behind his net. He's a turning and gets rocked into the boards in awkward positions on a regular basis.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Maybe in the past. Mac was over 3:00 per game on the PP this season. He gets tougher zone starts than most (Pietrangelo and OEM both had a higher DZS I think), but not tougher assignments. They all face top lines.
    Yeah, I had just gone back to his first full NHL season until now.
    He was 15th overall in minutes per game
    Looks like the only difference between him and the next 10 or so were PP time, but as you said, that has changed recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    McDoanghs games played is very similar to Staal and Girardi 2 seasons ago (When they truly started to fall apart).

    For McDonagh, I dont think the injuries, to this point, have been from playing too many minutes. Most of his injuries (shoulder and head) are from his inability to properly take a hit behind his net. He's a turning and gets rocked into the boards in awkward positions on a regular basis.




    Interesting perspective on McD's play. I think he is old school take a hit to make a play, maybe almost to a fault. And with guys coming stronger and faster and more reckless, it compounds the issue.

    My main drift was the abuse of that type has been mounting up with the years, and we're only looking at more of the same. the risk of him finding himself in the same situation as Staal and G is something the team will have to evaluate when the time comes to pay up or trade and move on. Of course, age and mounting damage is just one factor. We lost Michael Sauer as a young player. Anything can happen, and bad luck happens.

    I used to have a predisposition to favor savvy veteran defensemen playing to a ripe old age and winning cups, but the game today does not seem to allow NYR much room for error in personnel selections and their ability to survive and thrive in the deep playoffs grind. I'm a lot more leery these days — whether it's a veteran import Free Agent or a home grown warrior captain who's gone beyond the call of duty and to whom we may owe much gratitude — the spend needs to be very balanced so there's enough youthful speed energy and resiliency.
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