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Thread: What Will the Rangers' Late Game 'D-ployment' Look Like

  1. #21
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    What Will the Rangers' Late Game 'D-ployment' Look Like

    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    [insert something stupid because i coached a kids hockey team once and know everything, plus something political]

    Its simple
    they got scored on and Shattenkirk failed to clear the puck twice.
    Well, it's a difference of opinion, and I guess I just value mine more.
    No worries, we all have different ideas around here.
    Last edited by Puck Head; 08-18-2017 at 04:26 PM.

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    well, you are advocating for a "at best" 50/50 puck battle in your own zone as opposed to an icing, or the puck going to the NZ. I dont agree with that. Thats been a huge issue for the Rangers in the past, and led to some costly goals against.

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    The both of you have tremendous knowledge of the game. The difference here is not right or wrong, but a preferred coaching style. I'm not taking anything away from Josh here, but this is the way the game is taught now. So much so, USA Hockey has removed icing the puck without consequence during a pk from Bantams and below. They want to develop players to play the game controlling the puck in all 3 zones and in all situations rather than "off the glass and out". Does that mean there's no place for it in the game? Of course not. We still yell it at our guys, but if they learn what we teach them, we can trust them more to make a better play in certain situations. I believe Shatty was just doing what he's coached to do there. The first attempt wasn't soft, and his fwd fucked it up. Playing results tells us he was better off letting it go completely passed him for an icing, but that's not the play they were looking for. Same as the soft chip to the half boards. You have one of the best players on the planet there. Make a play.
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    Holtby could've swallowed that, at both points where he interacted with the puck. Nothing wrong with another faceoff on the books. No. 88 could've circled back to take it and have a few more seconds to maneuver. If you're pressured I don't see a problem with keeping it behind the net to create some open ice in front.

    I've never played or coached btw, except nhl video games. Make the safe play, there was a forward on the right of holtby that could have fought for it also on the right side boards.

    Sometimes I don't trust the forwards to handle it without clear space. We've seen this happen with many teams.

    Is Shattenkirk wrong for that? Not necessarily. Like others have said, it is what you are trained to do, but Pitt especially pressures hard.

    If defensemen are trained to do it and we all know it, maybe it is not a good idea? There are a lot of things to look at before claiming Shatt would consistently screw that up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliveIn94 View Post
    Holtby could've swallowed that, at both points where he interacted with the puck. Nothing wrong with another faceoff on the books. No. 88 could've circled back to take it and have a few more seconds to maneuver. If you're pressured I don't see a problem with keeping it behind the net to create some open ice in front.

    I've never played or coached btw, except nhl video games. Make the safe play, there was a forward on the right of holtby that could have fought for it also on the right side boards.

    Sometimes I don't trust the forwards to handle it without clear space. We've seen this happen with many teams.

    Is Shattenkirk wrong for that? Not necessarily. Like others have said, it is what you are trained to do, but Pitt especially pressures hard.

    If defensemen are trained to do it and we all know it, maybe it is not a good idea? There are a lot of things to look at before claiming Shatt would consistently screw that up.

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    Unless for the obvious line change, you never want the puck to be behind your own net. Nothing good can happen behind there. That's why you always hear "get it deep" or "make the other team go 200 feet". Percentage wise, more goals are generated from behind the crease than anywhere else, including off the rush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    The both of you have tremendous knowledge of the game. The difference here is not right or wrong, but a preferred coaching style. I'm not taking anything away from Josh here, but this is the way the game is taught now. So much so, USA Hockey has removed icing the puck without consequence during a pk from Bantams and below. They want to develop players to play the game controlling the puck in all 3 zones and in all situations rather than "off the glass and out". Does that mean there's no place for it in the game? Of course not. We still yell it at our guys, but if they learn what we teach them, we can trust them more to make a better play in certain situations. I believe Shatty was just doing what he's coached to do there. The first attempt wasn't soft, and his fwd fucked it up. Playing results tells us he was better off letting it go completely passed him for an icing, but that's not the play they were looking for. Same as the soft chip to the half boards. You have one of the best players on the planet there. Make a play.
    He didn't control the puck.
    Isn't that what we are debating, his decision with the puck...
    Seriously, his decision couldn't have been worse.
    And the one thing you should teach players is how to make the right play. "They teach that now". Well if this guy is dumb enough to think that's the ONLY play to make, then we have bigger issues.
    The play wasn't there. There was no play to make on that side wall, the winger was breaking out "as we teach them" and as he should his teams system.

    "We teach this on two on ones"
    "Dude, it was a breakaway"

    We are talking about THIS play, not your "ideal" breakout you run in practice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Unless for the obvious line change, you never want the puck to be behind your own net. Nothing good can happen behind there. That's why you always hear "get it deep" or "make the other team go 200 feet". Percentage wise, more goals are generated from behind the crease than anywhere else, including off the rush.
    What about swinging it towards the right side boards? Might be a bit of a battle, but preferable to a turnover the goalie is not ready for.

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    Video team, can I get a screen shot of 5 seconds

    Shattenkirk just got the puck, looks up.
    He's get a Penguin pressuring from the back but has time to make a play. His defensive partner is in front of the net. He sees the open boards. He can't see the winger, Ovechkin, as he's in the slot, behind his teammate. He sees the Penguins defender, previously retreating to the NZ, moving in to the zone to hold the blue line.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    He didn't control the puck.
    Isn't that what we are debating, his decision with the puck...
    Seriously, his decision couldn't have been worse.
    And the one thing you should teach players is how to make the right play. "They teach that now". Well if this guy is dumb enough to think that's the ONLY play to make, then we have bigger issues.
    The play wasn't there. There was no play to make on that side wall, the winger was breaking out "as we teach them" and as he should his teams system.

    "We teach this on two on ones"
    "Dude, it was a breakaway"

    We are talking about THIS play, not your "ideal" breakout you run in practice
    Wasn't he chasing the puck behind the net, got there first, took the hit, and wrapped it to his teammate? That's a good decision imo. I don't think he could have done anything else with it.

    The decision on the 2nd attempt could have been a few things:
    A) Not expecting Holtby to give it to him. Lol
    B) If he throws it high and hard off the backhand, chances are that puck is in the 7th row.
    C) Try to turn forehand, clap it down 180' for an icing
    D) Play it softly up the wall to that #8 guy. He's good.

    I'm not going to criticize the soft backhand, because that's what he was trying to do. He wasn't being a lazy pussy, an idiot, or a bad defensemen. He was trying to give the puck to his guy. Was it the best pass? No. It actually should have been softer, because it chased up the wall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Video team, can I get a screen shot of 5 seconds

    Shattenkirk just got the puck, looks up.
    He's get a Penguin pressuring from the back but has time to make a play. His defensive partner is in front of the net. He sees the open boards. He can't see the winger, Ovechkin, as he's in the slot, behind his teammate. He sees the Penguins defender, previously retreating to the NZ, moving in to the zone to hold the blue line.
    As I watch it unfold, we'll have to agree to disagree about him seeing Ovi. I believe 100% he knows he's there, and the path he's supposed to take. Ovi fuckin rink turned it. Got too low. He was between the hash. You can definitely tell Shatty was trying to feed him, and definitely not trying to clear the puck.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliveIn94 View Post
    What about swinging it towards the right side boards? Might be a bit of a battle, but preferable to a turnover the goalie is not ready for.

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    I'm sorry, I'm not following your suggestion. I'm probably not reading it correctly. Can you give me a bit more?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I'm sorry, I'm not following your suggestion. I'm probably not reading it correctly. Can you give me a bit more?
    In the video, on the right side boards where the forwards are looking to break out, send it past the ref to the forward on that side. That way holtby sees the puck, the right-winger gets reinforcements if necessary and and can clear off the boards toward the neutral zone or pass to the center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    As I watch it unfold, we'll have to agree to disagree about him seeing Ovi. I believe 100% he knows he's there, and the path he's supposed to take. Ovi fuckin rink turned it. Got too low. He was between the hash. You can definitely tell Shatty was trying to feed him, and definitely not trying to clear the puck.
    But still, best scenario is... what happened.
    Ovechkin wasn't there, and he can see the d coming back in the zone, moving forward. He's tossing up a 50/50 puck and a chance his forward gets wrecked.
    Skate it up, skate behind the net, fire it out

    if that's your best pass, you don't make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliveIn94 View Post
    In the video, on the right side boards where the forwards are looking to break out, send it past the ref to the forward on that side. That way holtby sees the puck, the right-winger gets reinforcements if necessary and and can clear off the boards toward the neutral zone or pass to the center.

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    What he tried to do? (soft pass up near boards up to Ovechkin to possess/chip out past defender)

    That's what we are talking about.

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    Yeah, but I was suggesting an alternative. Ovechkin was covered pretty tightly and a good bounce for Pitt helped. Why not send it back the other way to the right side boards, so Holtby sees the play and is prepared?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliveIn94 View Post
    Yeah, but I was suggesting an alternative. Ovechkin was covered pretty tightly and a good bounce for Pitt helped. Why not send it back the other way to the right side boards, so Holtby sees the play and is prepared?

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    Back the other way is either across or behind your own net, which is not what we want to see.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    But still, best scenario is... what happened.
    Ovechkin wasn't there, and he can see the d coming back in the zone, moving forward. He's tossing up a 50/50 puck and a chance his forward gets wrecked.
    Skate it up, skate behind the net, fire it out

    if that's your best pass, you don't make it.
    I'll get on board with the poor all around execution, but the play was there for both of them. I'm also not disagreeing that icing it would have been ok. I'm just saying that's a designed play that wasn't executed properly by the fwds on the 1st attempt or by the forwards and Shatty on #2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    But still, best scenario is... what happened.
    Ovechkin wasn't there, and he can see the d coming back in the zone, moving forward. He's tossing up a 50/50 puck and a chance his forward gets wrecked.
    Skate it up, skate behind the net, fire it out

    if that's your best pass, you don't make it.
    In addition, I love this discussion. This is what I come here for. Thank you.

    Gotta spread it around.
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    I think we can all agree that Shattenkirk isn't a great defensive defenseman but this play wasn't really his fault IMO. If Hank let up that goal, he would be getting lit up here. If Nash was lazy and didn't get to that loose puck, he would be getting lit up. If Girardi went off the glass for an icing instead of trusting his forwards to make that play, he would be getting lit up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    I think we can all agree that Shattenkirk isn't a great defensive defenseman but this play wasn't really his fault IMO. If Hank let up that goal, he would be getting lit up here. If Nash was lazy and didn't get to that loose puck, he would be getting lit up. If Girardi went off the glass for an icing instead of trusting his forwards to make that play, he would be getting lit up.
    That's why watching a play like this without your favorite team involved, or players that you may or may not like involved from personal investment are more fun to break down. Backhands are trickier shots to stop because you never know how the puck is going to come off the stick, but Holtby wants that one back.
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