Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Trump Bans Transgender Troops from Armed Services

  1. #1
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    81,913
    Rep Power
    361

    Trump Bans Transgender Troops from Armed Services

    House Republicans were planning to pass a spending bill stacked with his campaign promises, including money to build his border wall with Mexico.

    But an internal House Republican fight over transgender troops was threatening to blow up the bill. And House GOP insiders feared they might not have the votes to pass the legislation because defense hawks wanted a ban on Pentagon-funded sex reassignment operations — something GOP leaders wouldn’t give them.

    They turned to Trump, who didn’t hesitate. In the flash of a tweet, he announced that transgender troops would be banned altogether.

    Trump’s sudden decision was, in part, a last-ditch attempt to save a House proposal full of his campaign promises that was on the verge of defeat, numerous congressional and White House sources said.

    The president had always planned to scale back President Barack Obama-era policies welcoming such individuals in combat and greenlighting the military to pay for their medical treatment plans. But a behind-the-scenes GOP brawl threatening to tank a Pentagon funding increase and wall construction hastened Trump’s decision.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-scenes-240990
    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I say, “I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.”"
    - Christopher Hitchens

  2. #2
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division AliveIn94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    860
    Rep Power
    10
    I approve of this, but I had hoped for something less ad-hoc, but it's Trump so...

    Sent from my Z981 using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  3. #3
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    81,913
    Rep Power
    361
    Why do you approve of it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I say, “I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.”"
    - Christopher Hitchens

  4. #4
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division AliveIn94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    860
    Rep Power
    10
    I feel like it threatens group cohesion. I'd say, at first you don't care who is in the foxhole with you as long as they save your ass. However, there are many times when this is not the case, and can make for some discomfort and awkwardness in the ranks. Plus there is the factor of payment for reassignment surgery among other things.

    Sent from my Z981 using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bantam Division sg3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,119
    Rep Power
    6
    Ironic that a 5 time draft dodging coward attacks 15,000 people currently serving their country apparently without even consulting Pentagon officials.

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    List Maker BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    21,349
    Rep Power
    172
    Was there that many issues that this was needed?
    Is it because of the cost of surgery?

    I think I'm fine with allowing 1 elective procedure for every 2 years served. Seems like good incentive to get people to join.

  7. #7
    swamped Midget Division
    fletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Too far from MSG
    Posts
    3,781
    Rep Power
    70
    just keeps getting weirder and weirder. 7.5 more years of trump to come
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

    "How many Cups you've got?" - Esa Tikkanen

    "Hatred can keep you warm when you run out of liquor" - Ray Ratto, Dan Patrick show 1/20/2017

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mite Division rmc51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    8
    On the fence with this one. I'd like to see a poll of all active military personnel to see their feelings, and probably abide by that. I care more about the feelings of the majority of the people who risk their lives than the 1% or less who want to serve but might need to be told no. The military isn't the right place to turn all PC, whether we think it's OK or not in normal everyday life.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mite Division rmc51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    8
    Take this article for what it's worth: https://www.navytimes.com/news/penta...nder-policies/

    Poll summary:

    57% of active military thought allowing trans-gender would have negative impact.
    27% no impact.
    16% positive impact.
    Last edited by rmc51; 07-28-2017 at 12:09 AM.

  10. #10
    I feel sorry for the earth's population BSBH Prospect
    AmericanJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19,438
    Rep Power
    323
    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    On the fence with this one. I'd like to see a poll of all active military personnel to see their feelings, and probably abide by that. I care more about the feelings of the majority of the people who risk their lives than the 1% or less who want to serve but might need to be told no. The military isn't the right place to turn all PC, whether we think it's OK or not in normal everyday life.
    This is a slippery slope. Soldiers are supposed to follow orders. If you allow their "feelings" to influence who you allow in the ranks, do you also allow their "feelings" to dictate whether or not they execute a mission if they disagree with it's goals or methods?

    The military shouldn't be politically correct, it should be Constitutionally correct. Here is what Article 1, Section 8 says about that:

    Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
    Section 8 - Powers of Congress
    ...
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    ...
    So then, Congress, not the President, should be making the "Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces".

  11. #11
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    81,913
    Rep Power
    361
    Right. What if the majority "feel" more comfortable not fighting alongside blacks, or hispanics, or non-Christians? Very, very slippery slope.
    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I say, “I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.”"
    - Christopher Hitchens

  12. #12
    Resident Garbage Clown BSBH Prospect
    Dunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    10,745
    Rep Power
    188
    Gender Dysphoria is a mental condition.

    https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-...nder-dysphoria

    This group of people suffers from an incredibly high rate of suicide and self-inflicted harm. This is a no-brainer. Why would you want to give advanced weapons training and access to sophisticated weapons platforms to people with a diagnose-able mental illness?

    The use of Twitter to announce this was pretty tactless, sure, but it's the right call in my mind.

  13. #13
    swamped Midget Division
    fletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Too far from MSG
    Posts
    3,781
    Rep Power
    70
    even if it was the right call, trump should not have declared the policy change without at least letting the military know before hand that the announcement was coming, and to discuss how to implement the change. it is why the military is ignoring the tweet until they have a directive and can figure out the execution
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

    "How many Cups you've got?" - Esa Tikkanen

    "Hatred can keep you warm when you run out of liquor" - Ray Ratto, Dan Patrick show 1/20/2017

  14. #14
    Senior Member Mite Division rmc51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    This is a slippery slope. Soldiers are supposed to follow orders. If you allow their "feelings" to influence who you allow in the ranks, do you also allow their "feelings" to dictate whether or not they execute a mission if they disagree with it's goals or methods?

    The military shouldn't be politically correct, it should be Constitutionally correct. Here is what Article 1, Section 8 says about that:



    So then, Congress, not the President, should be making the "Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces".
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Right. What if the majority "feel" more comfortable not fighting alongside blacks, or hispanics, or non-Christians? Very, very slippery slope.
    I've noticed the left likes to fight against the majority unless we are talking about gross total of votes in Presidential elections.

    Really though, fair point. But it wouldn't surprise me if reps in Congress use information and polls like I mentioned. I know I would. Not as an end-all be-all, but as something to go off of in arguably gray areas.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Junior Division
    BlairBettsBlocksEverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,744
    Rep Power
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by AliveIn94 View Post
    I feel like it threatens group cohesion. I'd say, at first you don't care who is in the foxhole with you as long as they save your ass. However, there are many times when this is not the case, and can make for some discomfort and awkwardness in the ranks. Plus there is the factor of payment for reassignment surgery among other things.

    Sent from my Z981 using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    They said the same things about group cohesion and the likes when the military was racially integrated. I don't think that's a fair point to bring up.

    also, in terms of cost, it really wouldn't be THAT much, especially compared to what we already spend on in the military. I read recently that the military spends a bunch on viagra prescriptions already. You could certainly argue that neither should be allocated money, but I don't see any uproar about the other part do you?

    We have a volunteer fighting force for a reason. Anyone whose trans and joins has more balls (pun not entirely intended) than I ever have had. Who are we to judge?
    __________________________________

  16. #16
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division AliveIn94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    860
    Rep Power
    10
    In my view race and gender are different issues. Similar, but not the same.

    Sent from my Z981 using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Moderator BSBH Prospect
    Puck Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    10,573
    Rep Power
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    They said the same things about group cohesion and the likes when the military was racially integrated. I don't think that's a fair point to bring up.

    also, in terms of cost, it really wouldn't be THAT much, especially compared to what we already spend on in the military. I read recently that the military spends a bunch on viagra prescriptions already. You could certainly argue that neither should be allocated money, but I don't see any uproar about the other part do you?

    We have a volunteer fighting force for a reason. Anyone whose trans and joins has more balls (pun not entirely intended) than I ever have had. Who are we to judge?
    I'm torn on this issue, but financial burden really doesn't come into the decision for me. Analysis by the Department of Defense put cost estimates between 3-9 million approx, which is nothing for the DOD.

    And I've ready some varying opinions differentiating transgender vs gender dysphoria which was enlightening.


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  18. #18
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    81,913
    Rep Power
    361
    Able-bodiedness is the only factor that matters here. I have my own thoughts on transgenderism with regard to gender dysphoria as well, but none of that matters in the same way race, religion, and other immutable characteristics don't matter when dressing an army. The only factors that do are physical. Any American who is willing and able to handle the physical tasks of warfare should be allowed to do so.
    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I say, “I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.”"
    - Christopher Hitchens

  19. #19
    Resident Garbage Clown BSBH Prospect
    Dunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    10,745
    Rep Power
    188
    Well that should rule women out of combat roles, I guess.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division AliveIn94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Staten Island
    Posts
    860
    Rep Power
    10
    I don't see a problem with that either.

    Sent from my Z981 using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •