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Thread: Another Look at a Marc Staal Buyout

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    Another Look at a Marc Staal Buyout

    With the conclusion of the Mika Zibanejad arbitration case ending with the Swedish center re-signing to a five year contract, Jeff Gortonís busy summer has entered its final stage, attempting to land another center to fill the void left by the departure of Derek Stepan. Or maybe it is already done if no deal can be had to move some combination of the Rangersí depth at wing and on defense to plug the last remaining hole in the roster. That situation is complicated by a lack of salary cap space, though, with the Blueshirts currently sitting at around $3M with one spot remaining to be filled. They might have one last option to help that situation, though.

    The third day after today would be Friday, July 28th and the buyout window would extend 48 hours past that, through the close of business on Sunday, July 30th. The Rangers should, as I pointed out almost three months ago now, use that opportunity to buyout the remaining four contracted years of 30-year old shell of his former self, Marc Staal.

    Click here to view the article.

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    So if I'm skimming the article correctly, if they buyout Staal right now, they'd have 5.7m in cap space, freeing up about 3m with the buyout.
    There's still no one available in free agency and it seems that a 1a/1b center will cost a lot in trade.
    Unless they have a potential trade lined up where we need that cap space, I wouldn't buyout Staal. I'd sooner try and deal Nash on the last year of his contract. Shit, I'd even be ok with retaining 50%. I believe Nash has value and without looking, I believe some team could use him. If you dump even half of Nash's salary, it's 3.9m freed up, which is already more than Staal's buyout would free up. And you don't have to think about years 2-6 since Nash comes off the books after this season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by booze and wingz View Post
    So if I'm skimming the article correctly, if they buyout Staal right now, they'd have 5.7m in cap space, freeing up about 3m with the buyout.
    There's still no one available in free agency and it seems that a 1a/1b center will cost a lot in trade.
    Unless they have a potential trade lined up where we need that cap space, I wouldn't buyout Staal. I'd sooner try and deal Nash on the last year of his contract. Shit, I'd even be ok with retaining 50%. I believe Nash has value and without looking, I believe some team could use him. If you dump even half of Nash's salary, it's 3.9m freed up, which is already more than Staal's buyout would free up. And you don't have to think about years 2-6 since Nash comes off the books after this season.
    It's not that simple though (in your scenario)...

    Option 1:

    - Trade Nash 50% retained gives us ~$6.9m (what are we getting in return?)
    - We now have to fill Nash's top 9 wing spot
    - We're looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    - We are still putting Staal on the ice

    Option 2:

    - Buyout Staal gives us ~$6.6m
    - All are wing spots are full
    - Still looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    - Can replace Staal with an ELC D (Bereglazov or Pionk)

    If the plan for the bolded part is still some sort of Holden + a pick/prospect for Bozak then I think Option 2 makes the most sense. Cap space of $6.6m +Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4m. Carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have just over $3m in cap space going into the season.

    In Option 1 you'd have Cap space of $6.9m + Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4.3m. Again carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have ~$3.5m in cap space going into the season, but we'd still have to replace Nash. So unless Nash's trade is bringing back a top 9 forward who is cheaper than Bozak, I think the Staal buyout is the way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    It's not that simple though (in your scenario)...

    Option 1:

    - Trade Nash 50% retained gives us ~$6.9m (what are we getting in return?)
    - We now have to fill Nash's top 9 wing spot
    - We're looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    - We are still putting Staal on the ice

    Option 2:

    - Buyout Staal gives us ~$6.6m
    - All are wing spots are full
    - Still looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    - Can replace Staal with an ELC D (Bereglazov or Pionk)

    If the plan for the bolded part is still some sort of Holden + a pick/prospect for Bozak then I think Option 2 makes the most sense. Cap space of $6.6m +Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4m. Carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have just over $3m in cap space going into the season.

    In Option 1 you'd have Cap space of $6.9m + Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4.3m. Again carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have ~$3.5m in cap space going into the season, but we'd still have to replace Nash. So unless Nash's trade is bringing back a top 9 forward who is cheaper than Bozak, I think the Staal buyout is the way to go.
    Sold.. Where do I sign?

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    Nearly 7m tied up in buyouts when our top 2 players are due new contracts is a problem.

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    Bozak's cap hit is $4.2m. If we're at $3m of space and flip Holden ($1.6m), then we don't need to buyout Staal. Buying out Staal would be very shortsighted in that context.

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    Buying out Staal for the purpose of maybe needing cap space to make a move at the deadline seems silly - especially since any move we make would be shedding one of the guys in our top-9 who have big numbers anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Nearly 7m tied up in buyouts when our top 2 players are due new contracts is a problem.
    Compare that with having Girardi and Staal on the roster at a combined 11 mill.. it sucks.. and it spreads the suck.. but the immediate impact is a positive one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Bozak's cap hit is $4.2m. If we're at $3m of space and flip Holden ($1.6m), then we don't need to buyout Staal. Buying out Staal would be very shortsighted in that context.

    Kreid-Zib-Buch
    Nash-Bozak-Zucc
    Miller-Hayes-Vesey
    Fast-Nieves/Desh-Grabner

    Mac-Shatt
    Skjei-Smith
    Staal-DeAngelo

    Buying out Staal for the purpose of maybe needing cap space to make a move at the deadline seems silly - especially since any move we make would be shedding one of the guys in our top-9 who have big numbers anyways.
    I'd buyout Staal for the purpose of not having Marc Staal, and jusitfy it by citing replacement level production/play at a fraction of the cost.

    While, yes, you can look at it and say "but the buyout costs X and Y in years this and that", the sword cuts both ways. Staal is, right now, the seventh-best defenseman on the team, at best, so you're already paying $5.7M in dead cap space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Bozak's cap hit is $4.2m. If we're at $3m of space and flip Holden ($1.6m), then we don't need to buyout Staal. Buying out Staal would be very shortsighted in that context.

    Kreid-Zib-Buch
    Nash-Bozak-Zucc
    Miller-Hayes-Vesey
    Fast-Nieves/Desh-Grabner

    Mac-Shatt
    Skjei-Smith
    Staal-DeAngelo

    Buying out Staal for the purpose of maybe needing cap space to make a move at the deadline seems silly - especially since any move we make would be shedding one of the guys in our top-9 who have big numbers anyways.
    That would leave us with about $400k of cap space with only 6 D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Nearly 7m tied up in buyouts when our top 2 players are due new contracts is a problem.
    7m in buyouts is about 2.2m less than 3.5m in Giradri's buyout and the full 5.7m of Staal's deal. Add together what we currently pay Mash, Miller, and Skjei roughly 11.5m i think off the top of my head and you have plenty to lock up Miller and Skjei next summer.

    Having plenty of ELC D, makes the D by outs a lot easier to handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    It's not that simple though (in your scenario)...

    Option 1:

    - Trade Nash 50% retained gives us ~$6.9m (what are we getting in return?)
    Depends on where Nash goes, and unfortunately I don't know who would need a power forward good for ~45 points (jesus christ, i just looked this up and saw that he had 38 points this past season...eeesh), can kill penalties, and can create some space for your other guys on the ice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    - We now have to fill Nash's top 9 wing spot
    True, but I've seen so many times this summer that we're deep at the wing... Even without Nash, you're icing Zucc, Kreider, Miller, Buch, Vesey, Grabner in the top 9. That leaves Puempel, Fast, and whoever else to fill some holes on the fourth line and bottom 6 for when others need to slot up. Nash had 38 points last year in the top 6 with power play time. AND he costs 7.8m. It's not a bad idea to shop him, and if you find the right deal, you take it without looking back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    - We're looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    Yeah. The idea would be to get back a center who can perform in our top 6/9. And if that's Bozak at 4.2m, Nash @50%, you have 2.7m to get a 13th forward (which gets you a damn good 13th forward, which likely puts Puempel as our 13th).

    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    - We are still putting Staal on the ice
    No matter which way you cut the cookie, you're probably right. Staal on the third pair shouldn't be the end of the world though, right? I've no statistics to back up that statement, but time and time again I've read people say Staal, at this point in his career, is simply overpaid and misused, but can still be an asset on some team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Option 2:

    - Buyout Staal gives us ~$6.6m
    - All are wing spots are full
    - Still looking for maybe another top 9 center or at least 13th forward
    - Can replace Staal with an ELC D (Bereglazov or Pionk)

    If the plan for the bolded part is still some sort of Holden + a pick/prospect for Bozak then I think Option 2 makes the most sense. Cap space of $6.6m +Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4m. Carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have just over $3m in cap space going into the season.

    In Option 1 you'd have Cap space of $6.9m + Holden ($1.6m) - Bozak ($4.2m) would leave us with ~$4.3m. Again carry Kampfer as the 7th D and we'd have ~$3.5m in cap space going into the season, but we'd still have to replace Nash. So unless Nash's trade is bringing back a top 9 forward who is cheaper than Bozak, I think the Staal buyout is the way to go.
    Oh man, I need to smoke. I've thought more about this post than I did about the entire 8 hours of work I did today. idk how you guys do this shit.
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    Out: Girardi, Klein, Stepan, Raanta
    In: Shattenkirk, Desharnais, Pavalec, DeAngelo/Bereglazalov/Pionk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Bozak's cap hit is $4.2m. If we're at $3m of space and flip Holden ($1.6m), then we don't need to buyout Staal. Buying out Staal would be very shortsighted in that context.

    Kreid-Zib-Buch
    Nash-Bozak-Zucc
    Miller-Hayes-Vesey
    Fast-Nieves/Desh-Grabner

    Mac-Shatt
    Skjei-Smith
    Staal-DeAngelo

    Buying out Staal for the purpose of maybe needing cap space to make a move at the deadline seems silly - especially since any move we make would be shedding one of the guys in our top-9 who have big numbers anyways.
    If this is the roster we're going with, then there's no reason to buyout Staal if they're willing to make him a 7th/8th defenseman. At that point, they can buy him out next year when we need the cap relief, however minor when you factor in his replacement (likely on an ELC). So Staal needs to be bought out this year or next.

    Two other things. If you buyout Staal rather than essentially burying him in the bleachers, you allow a player who's been a good soldier in the franchise to try to catch on elsewhere this season. You also build up a good amount of cap space should you find the center situation untenable down the line or want to make some serious purchases at the trade deadline.

    Here's what the buyout picture looks like as far as cap charge against the team:

    Year - BO Now - BO Next Year - Never
    17/18 - $0.00 / $2.13 / $5.7
    18/19 - $2.06 / $2.13 / $5.7
    19/20 - $3.06 / $3.13 / $5.7
    20/21 - $3.86 / $3.93 / $5.7
    21/22 - $1.36 / $1.43
    22/23 - $1.36 / $1.43
    23/24 - $1.36 / $1.43
    24/25 - $0.00 / $1.43

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    I don't really see the point in doing it now. If no one will take him (assuming we've asked him to waive and he accepts) at 50% I think it's better to wait until next year to buyout. We're not hurting for cap space and if we needed a little more Holden would still be available to move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by booze and wingz View Post
    Depends on where Nash goes, and unfortunately I don't know who would need a power forward good for ~45 points (jesus christ, i just looked this up and saw that he had 38 points this past season...eeesh), can kill penalties, and can create some space for your other guys on the ice.



    True, but I've seen so many times this summer that we're deep at the wing... Even without Nash, you're icing Zucc, Kreider, Miller, Buch, Vesey, Grabner in the top 9. That leaves Puempel, Fast, and whoever else to fill some holes on the fourth line and bottom 6 for when others need to slot up. Nash had 38 points last year in the top 6 with power play time. AND he costs 7.8m. It's not a bad idea to shop him, and if you find the right deal, you take it without looking back.



    Yeah. The idea would be to get back a center who can perform in our top 6/9. And if that's Bozak at 4.2m, Nash @50%, you have 2.7m to get a 13th forward (which gets you a damn good 13th forward, which likely puts Puempel as our 13th).



    No matter which way you cut the cookie, you're probably right. Staal on the third pair shouldn't be the end of the world though, right? I've no statistics to back up that statement, but time and time again I've read people say Staal, at this point in his career, is simply overpaid and misused, but can still be an asset on some team.



    Oh man, I need to smoke. I've thought more about this post than I did about the entire 8 hours of work I did today. idk how you guys do this shit.
    Good job bro, you done good!
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    I wouldn't do it now, its going to cost too much in cap space. I would try to move him instead. If there is no takers, keep him and re-visit the buyout next season. The other thing is buying out 2 guys isn't going to go well with other upcoming UFA's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRanger11 View Post
    I don't really see the point in doing it now. If no one will take him (assuming we've asked him to waive and he accepts) at 50% I think it's better to wait until next year to buyout. We're not hurting for cap space and if we needed a little more Holden would still be available to move.
    At first, i also didn't see the sense in taking that additional hit ó thought might as well keep as 6/th 7th. However as someone pointed out it is effectively dead $pace if he doesn't' raise his game -- and if he's keeping some very promising or significantly more capable d-man from developing or playing in that position, then it might be worth it.

    Just looking at Holden again, i was pleasantly reminded he was 11g 23a 34pts +13
    playoffs 2 2 4 -3, not so great

    But maybe there's a chance he improves his playoff game, he's certainly a useful point production engine for the regular season.
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    I think the smarter move is wait till next offseason to buyout Staal
    THANK YOU, FOKK YOU, BYE!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    I wouldn't do it now, its going to cost too much in cap space. I would try to move him instead. If there is no takers, keep him and re-visit the buyout next season.
    It doesn't though because both can be replaced with ELC D men. IN the most expensive year of the potential dual buyout (2019-2020) it would cost $6.75m compared to having them in the lineup at $11.2m. That's a still a savings of $4.45m. And that's three years from now. We could have Sean Day in the lineup in 2019 at a cap hit under$775k. Zborovsky would potentially be under $750k. Bereglazov, Pionk, and DeAngelo will all be on their second contract and aren't arbitration eligible. Pick any 2 of those 5 guys to replace Staal and Girardi and its cheaper than the $4.45 we're saving.

    The only time the buyouts aren't saving you money is in the second half when the contract would have been over (3 extra years for Girardi @ $1.111 and 4 years for Staal @ $1.433). Those would over lap for two years 2021-22 and 2022-23 totaling a $2.544 loss in cap space in those two years, which is a pretty minor amount.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    The other thing is buying out 2 guys isn't going to go well with other upcoming UFA's.
    A) It's a business. Players know teams have to make financial decisions and you have to preform on the ice to keep your job.

    B) How much does Girardi care that he got bought out? He still gets paid all the money the Rangers agreed to pay him, plus now he gets an extra $6m from the Lightning. Seems like he came out ahead in the deal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa View Post
    I think the smarter move is wait till next offseason to buyout Staal
    That really doesn't save much money, less than $100k per year. The only benefit is that it is one year shorter, so it would save you $1.433m against the cap in 2024-25, which isn't that big of a deal.

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