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Thread: What is Stepan Worth?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    So you think he's going to come off surgery for a torn ACL and MCL that - if there's a 6-month recovery (which is probably generous for a 37 year old) - won't be fully recovered until late October, assuming there are no setbacks, and put up 70-something points?

    Not to mention the fact that, in this scenario, he'd be on the Rangers, who don't have one single shooter similar to the guys he's played with in SJ (Marleau, Pavelski, Burns), on a team predicated almost entirely on speed and where he's going to get about 2-3 minutes less per game?

    Ok then.
    Yes.

    Put him with Nash, turn Nash back into a goal scorer, and add Vesey, Kreider, Zucc or Buch to the other wing (don't care which side Nash plays on).

    Thornton bounces back and paces his usual numbers. Here or back in SJ, which is more likely.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by thes5 View Post
    Step didn't have a great post-season, but how does it help the team to get rid of him? I have read some proposals that are crazy.
    The guy puts up respectable numbers and plays a solid 200 foot game against the best centers in the league.
    Just because he isn't a prolific scorer doesn't mean he isn't an important piece of the puzzle..
    There is another guy on the roster who is paid to be a prolific scorer and he isn't, so why isn't everyone looking to get rid of him?
    That prolific scorer has been stuck playing with Stepan for most of his time here. I don't care about Stepans "200' game". I want a center on the top line that can take over a game offensively. A player that dictates who the other team puts on the ice. Stepan going up against the other teams top players, shouldn't be the plan for your top offensive line. Having Stepan out there in a defensive role getting top minutes is what is wrong with the Rangers. New game plan. Dictate how the game is played with top offensive talent getting the most icetime.

    The game plan is more of the problem than Stepan is.

    Cue people talking about how high the Rangers offense ranked.. The team had a balanced offense that somehow some way put tons of pucks in the net early in the season. Their 3rd/4th line winger scored the most goals for the team. The third line center finished with something line 4 less points than their top center. Then they ALL sucked save for their fourth liners.

    I feel they need a go to guy. A player you KNOW has to be out there when you need a goal. A game breaker. Not a slow footed, perimeter playing, predictable player.

    I'm sorry I think Stepan really needs to go. Change the dynamic of the team, and have a changing of the guard. Stepan, Girardi and maybe even Staal could and should be off this roster by next season. I think it's for the best for the team moving forward. The gutting needs to begin now.

  3. #143
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    The last thing this team needs is a hobbled, old Joe Thornton to replace Stepan. You get a silo'd player that needs to be protected and can't PK. You complain about Stepan being slow? How do you think you'll feel watching Jumbo Joe at 37 years old coming off knee surgery?

    And how is signing a late-30s player an upgrade? It's a change for the sake of making a change. It's short-sighted, reactionary and will not make us better now or down the road.


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  4. #144
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    Agreed, stay away from Thornton unless he comes extremely cheap on a 1 year deal


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    Thornton with Nash? Okay, if Nick Ra$h grows a comparable beard.

  6. #146
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    This has been a refreshing read.. All this time I'd assumed there wasn't a tree that grew dynamic two way centermen that will routinely produce 80 plus points, apparently we can just go pick whom ever we'd like from said tree.. I'd also fallen into the trap of thinking the salary cap was a real thing..

    Apparently I'm off base, so fuck it!!! Trade Stepan and get us a legit #1.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    The last thing this team needs is a hobbled, old Joe Thornton to replace Stepan. You get a silo'd player that needs to be protected and can't PK. You complain about Stepan being slow? How do you think you'll feel watching Jumbo Joe at 37 years old coming off knee surgery?

    And how is signing a late-30s player an upgrade? It's a change for the sake of making a change. It's short-sighted, reactionary and will not make us better now or down the road.


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    Again. The assets Thornton would bring are facets of the game that are different than Stepan. Thornton brings size, grit, and a higher talent level.

    I don't want my top center killing penalties. I think that's an absolute disaster waiting to happen. The Rangers should seriously concentrate on shying away from using Nash and Stepan on the PK, and using their lower line players who are supposed to be here for their defensive ability. Lindberg, Fast, Grabner should be 3 of their top four PK forwards. Somehow Stepan and Nash seem to be out there more often than ANY of these guys.

    Thornton won't be here to kill penalties. He would be here to change the chemical make up of the top six, from wimpy perimeter, to a bit more gutsy, ballsy style that isn't afraid to take the puck to the middle of the ice and drive TO the net.

    It's not a move for the future. It's not a move just for the sake of making a move. The Rangers need to go in a different direction than Stepan. It has to happen, or else this team stays the same. Thornton may not be the BEST answer. But it's an option I feel should be looked into.

    I'm more into Duchene.

  8. #148
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    Thornton's massive dip recently in production is not a anomaly.
    It's the standard course of a player with his talent and his age.
    His best days are behind him.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Again. The assets Thornton would bring are facets of the game that are different than Stepan. Thornton brings size, grit, and a higher talent level.

    I don't want my top center killing penalties. I think that's an absolute disaster waiting to happen. The Rangers should seriously concentrate on shying away from using Nash and Stepan on the PK, and using their lower line players who are supposed to be here for their defensive ability. Lindberg, Fast, Grabner should be 3 of their top four PK forwards. Somehow Stepan and Nash seem to be out there more often than ANY of these guys.

    Thornton won't be here to kill penalties. He would be here to change the chemical make up of the top six, from wimpy perimeter, to a bit more gutsy, ballsy style that isn't afraid to take the puck to the middle of the ice and drive TO the net.

    It's not a move for the future. It's not a move just for the sake of making a move. The Rangers need to go in a different direction than Stepan. It has to happen, or else this team stays the same. Thornton may not be the BEST answer. But it's an option I feel should be looked into.

    I'm more into Duchene.
    Thornton had seven goals last year. He's not gritty, he's not tough, he's not driving the net. He's a playmaker, and at 37 is more of a PP/offensive specialist. And again, coming off knee surgery and not being fleet of foot to begin with, he's not "driving the net". Size? He's gonna be as much a marshmallow as Hayes.

    Why don't you want your #1 center killing penalties? The best centers in the game do. Jonathan Toews, Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, Jeff Carter, Filip Forsberg all played prominent PK roles for their teams. Shit even Crosby and McDavid had PK roles. Your #1 center is a 200-foot player and plays in all situations. Having a purely offensive first line center, especially one like Thornton, exposes your team more than helps it.

    Thornton is a waste of time, and Stepan is being scapegoated after a bad playoff. Duchene would cost significant assets, but I'd be more open to that because he actually brings skill to the team while not being on the brink of using a walker.


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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Again. The assets Thornton would bring are facets of the game that are different than Stepan. Thornton brings size, grit, and a higher talent level.
    Thornton has never been a gritty player who uses his size as anything other than an advantage when trying to protect the puck. He's exactly like Kevin Hayes, in that regard. It's not as if he's the type of player who bullies his way to the net and battles at the edge of the crease.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    That prolific scorer has been stuck playing with Stepan for most of his time here. I don't care about Stepans "200' game". I want a center on the top line that can take over a game offensively. A player that dictates who the other team puts on the ice. Stepan going up against the other teams top players, shouldn't be the plan for your top offensive line. Having Stepan out there in a defensive role getting top minutes is what is wrong with the Rangers. New game plan. Dictate how the game is played with top offensive talent getting the most icetime.

    The game plan is more of the problem than Stepan is.

    Cue people talking about how high the Rangers offense ranked.. The team had a balanced offense that somehow some way put tons of pucks in the net early in the season. Their 3rd/4th line winger scored the most goals for the team. The third line center finished with something line 4 less points than their top center. Then they ALL sucked save for their fourth liners.

    I feel they need a go to guy. A player you KNOW has to be out there when you need a goal. A game breaker. Not a slow footed, perimeter playing, predictable player.

    I'm sorry I think Stepan really needs to go. Change the dynamic of the team, and have a changing of the guard. Stepan, Girardi and maybe even Staal could and should be off this roster by next season. I think it's for the best for the team moving forward. The gutting needs to begin now.
    Who wouldn't want a game changing center? Problem is there are about six of them in the NHL.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Thornton has never been a gritty player who uses his size as anything other than an advantage when trying to protect the puck. He's exactly like Kevin Hayes, in that regard. It's not as if he's the type of player who bullies his way to the net and battles at the edge of the crease.
    The player being described by the Dude is Jamie Benn basically.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    The player being described by the Dude is Jamie Benn basically.
    Hah yea.

    I'd trade for him all day lol

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Thornton's massive dip recently in production is not a anomaly.
    It's the standard course of a player with his talent and his age.
    His best days are behind him.
    Everyone said that two years ago, then he popped in 80+ points last season.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Thornton had seven goals last year. He's not gritty, he's not tough, he's not driving the net. He's a playmaker, and at 37 is more of a PP/offensive specialist. And again, coming off knee surgery and not being fleet of foot to begin with, he's not "driving the net". Size? He's gonna be as much a marshmallow as Hayes.

    Why don't you want your #1 center killing penalties? The best centers in the game do. Jonathan Toews, Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, Jeff Carter, Filip Forsberg all played prominent PK roles for their teams. Shit even Crosby and McDavid had PK roles. Your #1 center is a 200-foot player and plays in all situations. Having a purely offensive first line center, especially one like Thornton, exposes your team more than helps it.

    Thornton is a waste of time, and Stepan is being scapegoated after a bad playoff. Duchene would cost significant assets, but I'd be more open to that because he actually brings skill to the team while not being on the brink of using a walker.


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    Idk. Thornton seems to always find himself in the opposition's crease, or along the boards protecting the puck.

    The games top centers ARE NOT used on the PK. You named a few that got more than Stepan who was ranked about 50th in PKTOI. The majority of the league does not use their top center on the PK. Look up the numbers. Above Stepan at around 50, I'd say there are 5-6 top line players on that list... That's about 45 centers who are not top line centers. 200' game doesn't include pk duties IMO. Just means they aren't a detriment to the D and aren't one dimensional.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Thornton has never been a gritty player who uses his size as anything other than an advantage when trying to protect the puck. He's exactly like Kevin Hayes, in that regard. It's not as if he's the type of player who bullies his way to the net and battles at the edge of the crease.
    Thornton drives to the net till this day. He's always in the mix infront of the net or pushing the puck deep and alone the boards. Idk where you get the idea that's he's this marshmallow. No, he's not going to fight and throw his body around. But he's solid on the puck and still goes to the hard spots on the ice.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by thes5 View Post
    Who wouldn't want a game changing center? Problem is there are about six of them in the NHL.
    And there are 30 Stepans....

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Everyone said that two years ago, then he popped in 80+ points last season.
    He's had one point per game season in the last seven seasons. Put up just 50 points last season and then suffered two bad injuries. Are you remotely familiar with how an ACL injury can affect someone? You really don't think that will hamper him? Because he's "a beast?" Everything suggests he'll trend downward. If you think he'll come back from a five month recovery and then somehow improve offensively you might as well play the lottery. That's not something I'd remotely bet on. Doesn't seem remotely possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Idk. Thornton seems to always find himself in the opposition's crease, or along the boards protecting the puck.

    The games top centers ARE NOT used on the PK. You named a few that got more than Stepan who was ranked about 50th in PKTOI. The majority of the league does not use their top center on the PK. Look up the numbers. Above Stepan at around 50, I'd say there are 5-6 top line players on that list... That's about 45 centers who are not top line centers. 200' game doesn't include pk duties IMO. Just means they aren't a detriment to the D and aren't one dimensional.
    If Thornton were physical or a crease crasher, he'd have more than seven goals. He's not that type of player.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    He's had one point per game season in the last seven seasons. Put up just 50 points last season and then suffered two bad injuries. Are you remotely familiar with how an ACL injury can affect someone? You really don't think that will hamper him? Because he's "a beast?" Everything suggests he'll trend downward. If you think he'll come back from a five month recovery and then somehow improve offensively you might as well play the lottery. That's not something I'd remotely bet on. Doesn't seem remotely possible.
    <<Goes to play lotto>>

    So he had one point per game season in seven years ( he's actually had 2 in the last 7, but...) and it happened to be the season prior to this (prior to that he had a not so good season).. So he had a bad year and that's going to be it for him. He's done? That's rational and fair? Yes he's getting older and most players are on a serious decline at his age. I'm saying he's different. He's that level of good.

    I'm aware of how an ACL injury can affect someone. I'm also aware the guy played with the torn ACL, while most people would not even try. Hes a different animal. He's got something to prove. I don't think the guy is going down quietly. He's got a couple more productive seasons left in him.

    Besides all the Thornton talk. I'd rather they try to get Duchene. Probably a better move for a possible future.
    Last edited by The Dude; 05-20-2017 at 12:11 PM.

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