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Thread: What is Stepan Worth?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Not in an particular order: lack of foot speed, predictable paths in the OZ, telegraphs the majority of his passes, unwilling to use his shot (defers to aforementioned telegraphed passes, even when he has a high-danger opportunity).
    I'm just curious what people think about all the other centers in the league that Stepan has more points than, because anyone above him on the points list is not attainable.
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    Stepan is a 1C. He's just on the low end of the spectrum. So he looks "bad" compared to the high end guys. But when push comes to shove he plays the toughest match ups and still manages to put up 60 points which is no easy feat.


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  3. #123
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    Your complaints cover the majority of the centers in the league, even the ones better than him.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    These two totally disappeared playing on the third line the second half and in the playoffs, playing against the other teams weaker lines. What have they done to earn more responsibility on this team? If they had issues on the third line, what are they going to do when moved up to help the team. While Stepans face-off percentage sucks, his point production is more consistent than these two. Honestly, I would move Hayes over Step or Miller, and give Miller that 3rd line spot. You can't have these guys playing top 6 just to win a face-off playing against the other teams more talented forwards and still not be productive.
    I hear what you are saying.

    The players I mentioned are very young. Hayes felt it was incumbent on him to play a very defensively responsible game. He has tremendous offensive skills. I think it is up to the coach to put those skills into action not suffocate them.

    I just think the cap crunch is going to screw us over in the next few years and we are not getting bang for Stepan's $6.5 million bucks. He is not getting it as far as the speed the game needs to be played at. Instead he is slowing down his line and making it predictable. That wastes both nash and vessel's skills too. To make matters worse, Stepan insists on continuing to play that way. He could be a lot better but he shows no inclination to adopt the necessary sense of urgency or speed up his game. time to move on. Steps is a player I'd look at moving while he is still young ... the older he gets the less value that 6.5 million contract represents.

    I will admit to being cranky, but his play pisses me off more than the others because he should know better by now.
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I'm just curious what people think about all the other centers in the league that Stepan has more points than, because anyone above him on the points list is not attainable.
    Stepan this past season is 32nd in the league in points (32 last season as well) for centers... He's replaceable. There's an upgrade out there. One that might get better results playing with the players Stepan has.
    Last edited by The Dude; 05-14-2017 at 04:21 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Stepan this past season is 32nd in the league in points (32 last season as well) for centers... He's replaceable. There's an upgrade out there. One that might get better results playing with the players Stepan has.
    Ok. Who, and how ?

    Also, he was tied for 28th with 55 points, Coyle was 27th with 56. 5 guys are tied with 58. I won't count Eichel with 57 because he missed 21 games. So you're talking about 11 guys within 3 points of each other.
    Last edited by Mikey37; 05-14-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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    Stepan should be on the block because he should have enough value to get a defenseman that we badly need, and his production doesn't exactly jump off the charts as an untradeable asset. He's a solid two way player, but he's ideally a 2nd line center while we use him and pay him like a 1st. Miller, Zibanejad, and Hayes were all around Stepan's rate of point production per game this year with less ice time and pp time, and they all cost significantly less than Stepan's 6.5/yr.

    Two negative things about Stepan's game that seem to get magnified when the team isn't playing well are his below average foot speed and below average skill with the puck on his stick. If he has time and space he has good vision and can make great passes, but he doesn't work particularly well in tight spaces under pressure since he isn't very creative with the puck. This is most evident on the PP, though it seems a lot of Rangers have trouble with this. The puck possession on the PP is downright awful, but there are certain guys who struggle more than others. To me, Stepan is one of those guys who struggles more with pressure. If we don't trade him, he needs to be utilized a bit differently IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Ok. Who, and how ?

    Also, he was tied for 28th with 55 points, Coyle was 27th with 56. 5 guys are tied with 58. I won't count Eichel with 57 because he missed 21 games. So you're talking about 11 guys within 3 points of each other.
    Who and how. I've already named two players from free agency. Thornton ( I know you're not a fan but he was an animal LAST season, but stunk this season putting up Stepan like point totals) Marleau (used to mainly play center,, don't see why he can't switch back, he's fast as fuck). There's Duchene, you may be able to deal Miller and a little something for him. Out of the 30 something NHL teams, I'm sure there is a trading partner for such a playe.r.

    I missed that it was a 5 way tie for 32nd. I'm thinking you were in disbelief of how low he was ranked and double checked. I went to nhl.com and punched it in. That's where they ranked him. So, let's give home the benefit of the doubt and give him 25th..... Still not good enough. That's over or around 3/4 of the league's centers out producing the Rangers top center.

    If this was something the team was just starting to try out (spreading out the mid range talent to try to win) I'd be fine with going ahead with Stepan. It's been what? 4-5 years if hoping it works. IMO, it's a failed experiment. He's just not enough.

    This obviously doesn't absolve the craptastic wingers they have of part of the blame. Nash had a semi bounce back year, but he's gotta get back on track and be a 40 goal scorer. IMO, he's become a defensive minded guy who doesn't take chances. He might as well be wearing the #21 on his back.

  9. #129
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    Duchene stinks. Thornton is 107. Everyone wants a shiny new toy. Take a look at what these other superstars get paid and how close they all are in point production. Then factor in that Stepan plays a 200' game and is a good pker. Complain about pp points? Go look up the production of others. You'll be surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Duchene stinks. Thornton is 107. Everyone wants a shiny new toy. Take a look at what these other superstars get paid and how close they all are in point production. Then factor in that Stepan plays a 200' game and is a good pker. Complain about pp points? Go look up the production of others. You'll be surprised.
    ?? He's tied for 25th in the league for PP points. Continuing his bottom 1/4 of the league status.. Add in that he amassed more PP time than:

    Austin Mathews
    Sam Gagner
    Eric Staal
    Nylander
    Mariner
    Koivu
    Granlund
    Backlund
    Kuznetsov
    Rakell
    Galchenyuk
    and plenty others.

    Duchene is a really damn good offensive player. I hope they press to get him because he could be a franchise player. I hope the Isles don't go balls deep and trade for him. They'd be very dangerous down the middle. Thornton may be 2,543 years old, but the dude still has it. Getting him on a one year deal for 4 mill, while dealing Stepan for a D-man or prospects would be a smart move to improve now, and add for the future. Thornton is an upgrade in size and skill even at the age of 5,248, 611. If it doesn't work. Oh well. One year and done and you have something to show for Stepan in a hopefully improved D. Then maybe there's a chance at Tavares or whoever is a FA the following year.. Cash in on Stepan and Miller now, while you can, and grab a stop gap that has big boom potential.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    ?? He's tied for 25th in the league for PP points. Continuing his bottom 1/4 of the league status.. Add in that he amassed more PP time than:

    Austin Mathews
    Sam Gagner
    Eric Staal
    Nylander
    Mariner
    Koivu
    Granlund
    Backlund
    Kuznetsov
    Rakell
    Galchenyuk
    and plenty others.

    Duchene is a really damn good offensive player. I hope they press to get him because he could be a franchise player. I hope the Isles don't go balls deep and trade for him. They'd be very dangerous down the middle. Thornton may be 2,543 years old, but the dude still has it. Getting him on a one year deal for 4 mill, while dealing Stepan for a D-man or prospects would be a smart move to improve now, and add for the future. Thornton is an upgrade in size and skill even at the age of 5,248, 611. If it doesn't work. Oh well. One year and done and you have something to show for Stepan in a hopefully improved D. Then maybe there's a chance at Tavares or whoever is a FA the following year.. Cash in on Stepan and Miller now, while you can, and grab a stop gap that has big boom potential.
    Duchene is possibly one of my favorite players in the league. No chance he's a franchise player. He's 26. His career has been wildly inconsistent despite playing on a terrible team. He's very talented in some areas, but he's not game breaking.

    You also don't go for Thornton because he "still has it." He doesn't still have it. His production dropped by 32 points and he just had ACL surgery. He'll be 38 come July. Here's this player who's already slowing down that just underwent something that will obviously be a hindrance, especially at his age. If you think adding Thornton as a stop-gap helps this team then we might as well throw in the towel now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Duchene is possibly one of my favorite players in the league. No chance he's a franchise player. He's 26. His career has been wildly inconsistent despite playing on a terrible team. He's very talented in some areas, but he's not game breaking.

    You also don't go for Thornton because he "still has it." He doesn't still have it. His production dropped by 32 points and he just had ACL surgery. He'll be 38 come July. Here's this player who's already slowing down that just underwent something that will obviously be a hindrance, especially at his age. If you think adding Thornton as a stop-gap helps this team then we might as well throw in the towel now.
    I really think that Colorado has been a disaster the last few years, and despite that, he hasn't been all that bad at his worst. Then again I haven't watched him as much as you I'm sure, as I haven't paid that much attention to him. He's one of your favorite players is what I mean by that. So, you obviously watch or pay more attention to how he is doing.

    As for Thornton. Dude played with a turn ACL and MCL. If anyone is capable of recovering from the injury, I'd say it's him. He had a drop in production, but IMO that team had a drop in production besides Burns of course. He still put up 40- something assists in a bad year. Stepan numbers.

    82 points season prior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I really think that Colorado has been a disaster the last few years, and despite that, he hasn't been all that bad at his worst. Then again I haven't watched him as much as you I'm sure, as I haven't paid that much attention to him. He's one of your favorite players is what I mean by that. So, you obviously watch or pay more attention to how he is doing.

    As for Thornton. Dude played with a turn ACL and MCL. If anyone is capable of recovering from the injury, I'd say it's him. He had a drop in production, but IMO that team had a drop in production besides Burns of course. He still put up 40- something assists in a bad year. Stepan numbers.

    82 points season prior.
    Colorado has been bad, yes, but Duchene just isn't driven enough nor does he has the sheer talent to be a difference-maker. He's a good number one center, but he's not a guy you bring in to drive an offense. He's a complementary player. You need to get him good wingers. No one on this team is really significantly better than any talent he had in Colorado. He is what he is at this point. He'll score in a 50-70 point range, but he'll be wildly inconsistent. The benefit is that he has highlight reel play ability.

    An ACL injury is a bad injury. The fact that he had ACL and MCL damage as a 37-year-old is a red flag. He's already not a fast player. The rehabilitation time and what it might do to his already falling game isn't worth it. I'd say the Sharks scoring drop came as more of a result of aging stars like Thornton as opposed to the team not aiding in Thornton's ability to produce.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    ?? He's tied for 25th in the league for PP points. Continuing his bottom 1/4 of the league status.. Add in that he amassed more PP time than:

    Austin Mathews
    Sam Gagner
    Eric Staal
    Nylander
    Mariner
    Koivu
    Granlund
    Backlund
    Kuznetsov
    Rakell
    Galchenyuk
    and plenty others.

    Duchene is a really damn good offensive player. I hope they press to get him because he could be a franchise player. I hope the Isles don't go balls deep and trade for him. They'd be very dangerous down the middle. Thornton may be 2,543 years old, but the dude still has it. Getting him on a one year deal for 4 mill, while dealing Stepan for a D-man or prospects would be a smart move to improve now, and add for the future. Thornton is an upgrade in size and skill even at the age of 5,248, 611. If it doesn't work. Oh well. One year and done and you have something to show for Stepan in a hopefully improved D. Then maybe there's a chance at Tavares or whoever is a FA the following year.. Cash in on Stepan and Miller now, while you can, and grab a stop gap that has big boom potential.
    Where's the pp toi stat ? And fwiw the difference would have to be monumental to argue Duchene's 9 pp points, among others that are below him, like Jonathan Toews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Where's the pp toi stat ? And fwiw the difference would have to be monumental to argue Duchene's 9 pp points, among others that are below him, like Jonathan Toews.
    It's in the report section.

    I didn't include Duchene in my list of players who got less PP time. He had a not so good year on arguably the worst team in the game.

    I plucked some names that played a similar amount of games to Stepan. The Toronto kids had amazing numbers as they logged I think about 25-30 minutes less on the PP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Colorado has been bad, yes, but Duchene just isn't driven enough nor does he has the sheer talent to be a difference-maker. He's a good number one center, but he's not a guy you bring in to drive an offense. He's a complementary player. You need to get him good wingers. No one on this team is really significantly better than any talent he had in Colorado. He is what he is at this point. He'll score in a 50-70 point range, but he'll be wildly inconsistent. The benefit is that he has highlight reel play ability.

    An ACL injury is a bad injury. The fact that he had ACL and MCL damage as a 37-year-old is a red flag. He's already not a fast player. The rehabilitation time and what it might do to his already falling game isn't worth it. I'd say the Sharks scoring drop came as more of a result of aging stars like Thornton as opposed to the team not aiding in Thornton's ability to produce.
    So worst case scenario Duchene puts up Stepan like numbers, but with more goals? I think a change of scenery will do that kid wonders. He's got game breaking ability. This team needs that.

    As for Thornton. I'm pretty confident he comes back and plays into his typical numbers. Dude is a beast and IMO will play as long if not longer than Messier, because he is chasing that ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    As for Thornton. I'm pretty confident he comes back and plays into his typical numbers. Dude is a beast and IMO will play as long if not longer than Messier, because he is chasing that ring.
    So you think he's going to come off surgery for a torn ACL and MCL that - if there's a 6-month recovery (which is probably generous for a 37 year old) - won't be fully recovered until late October, assuming there are no setbacks, and put up 70-something points?

    Not to mention the fact that, in this scenario, he'd be on the Rangers, who don't have one single shooter similar to the guys he's played with in SJ (Marleau, Pavelski, Burns), on a team predicated almost entirely on speed and where he's going to get about 2-3 minutes less per game?

    Ok then.

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    Step didn't have a great post-season, but how does it help the team to get rid of him? I have read some proposals that are crazy.
    The guy puts up respectable numbers and plays a solid 200 foot game against the best centers in the league.
    Just because he isn't a prolific scorer doesn't mean he isn't an important piece of the puzzle..
    There is another guy on the roster who is paid to be a prolific scorer and he isn't, so why isn't everyone looking to get rid of him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thes5 View Post
    Step didn't have a great post-season, but how does it help the team to get rid of him? I have read some proposals that are crazy.
    The guy puts up respectable numbers and plays a solid 200 foot game against the best centers in the league.
    Just because he isn't a prolific scorer doesn't mean he isn't an important piece of the puzzle..
    There is another guy on the roster who is paid to be a prolific scorer and he isn't, so why isn't everyone looking to get rid of him?
    Cause Ricky's only got one more year left and he isn't a black hole in the offensive zone.
    Out: Girardi, Klein, Stepan, Raanta
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    Quote Originally Posted by booze and wingz View Post
    Cause Ricky's only got one more year left and he isn't a black hole in the offensive zone.
    Unless, of course, it's a big game.

    He might actually be moveable now that he's only got one year left, but I won't get my hopes up.
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