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Thread: Gorton Has to Stay Away from Shattenkirk

  1. #1
    Junior Member Ice27's Avatar
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    Gorton Has to Stay Away from Shattenkirk

    He wants 6 mil + and he is a -7 playing on the 3rd pair no less for the caps,so it's not like he's out against Crosby or Malikn. He also was a -14 last season with the blues and Hitch is known for good defensive teams. LET HIM SIGN SOMEWHERE ELSE.

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    I disagree.

    1. We really don't know what his ask is. It's entirely possible all the numbers that have been speculated—and that's exactly what we have to work with at this point, speculation—are simply a means to keep his market value high. Frankly, his agent wouldn't be a very good one if he wasn't constantly chumming the waters around his clients' name. Whether or not those numbers actually apply entirely to the Rangers or not remains to be seen. Players don't generally take discounts in free agency, but this situation clearly favors the Rangers given how effectively public he's been about wanting to play here.

    2. I don't care that he's a minus-seven in eight games with a Capitals team he's never played for, who he was abruptly dealt to and forced to learn a whole new system for a brand new coach on a club he had no familiarity with. That tells me very, very little about how abilities as a player.

    3. He's on their third pairing because they have one of the deepest blue lines in the NHL, not because he's a poor player.

    In the last five years, his 212 points are tenth in the league among defensemen. Of them, 113 are power play points, second only to Erik Karlsson over that same span. Ahead of Keith Yandle, P.K. Subban, Shea Weber, and Brent Burns. He’s also averaged a 53 CF% and 54% Fenwick in that time.

    Find me an equivalent player in free agency or trade who wouldn't come with a similar price tag or acquisition price.

    Given the Rangers desperate need to dramatically improve the right side of their defense, I'm hardpressed to think of a better solution than the incredibly productive, relatively young, unrestricted free agency who wants to play here. Especially as the league trends harder and harder toward speed and skill.
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    Show me the last high priced/long term contract we've given to a defenseman that's worked out...

    I am the definition of "on the fence" about this one. Will he be over paid? Yes. Will he live up to the hype? No. Will he play well? Who knows? I have been watching him closely during the playoffs knowing that we're the front runners to get him, and honestly, I'm not impressed. He's fine but he hasn't made the Caps better. On paper, it looks awesome. McD, Skjei, Smith and Shattenkirk as the top 4 LOOKS great. But the money is scary. The term is scary. And again, will history repeat itself? Probably. It always does.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

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    I can show you the last high-priced/long-term contract they should have given out to a defenseman who would have worked out, and he's not even half as productive as Shattenkirk.



    Shattenkirk's ask is a little scary, as most UFA's are, but it's really hard to know exactly what he'll actually sign for.
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    Should have and have are two different things. I mean we have TWO albatross contracts on D already. Both players signed at a similar age. Both players haven been on steep decline for three years. I'm just not excited about doing that again.
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    Neither of whom was half as productive and skilled as Shattenkirk. Honestly, the closest comparison if you want to go full comparison panic is Redden, not Girardi or Staal. Difference there being (A) he was much older than Shattenkirk when the Rangers signed him, (B) he was already in a consistent decline in terms of production, and (C) the Rangers offered more than $1.5M more than the Blue Jackets and Senators, so of course he took their offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Neither of whom was half as productive and skilled as Shattenkirk. Honestly, the closest comparison if you want to go full comparison panic is Redden, not Girardi or Staal. Difference there being (A) he was much older than Shattenkirk when the Rangers signed him, (B) he was already in a consistent decline in terms of production, and (C) the Rangers offered more than $1.5M more than the Blue Jackets and Senators, so of course he took their offer.
    Redden.... fuck.

    I'll always be torn on it. I just don't want the Rangers to be that team that "blows him away" with an offer. If he wants to come to NY, make him come at our terms, not his.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

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    Right. I'm with you there. I want Shattenkirk, and I probably value him more than most around here, but there's still a limit to that. Given his age, my hope is that they can get him signed to something like $6.5M x 6 years. He'd be making a respectable salary while the Rangers would carry him to age 34.
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    I can't really disagree with you... another shiny toy that will probably flame out.

    My main issue is that we're not a Shattenkirk away from winning it all unless there are some genius moves by Gorton this offseason. Once he commits a few major blunders (which he will), everyone is going to jump on him and it's going to go downhill from there. His defense is Holden-level bad at times

    I guess one factor is how the rest of this postseason goes. If we get ousted by Ottawa in 4 or 5 games then it's clear this team needs more than him.

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    Gorton Has to Stay Away from Shattenkirk

    The team needs more than Shattenkirk regardless of what happens in this series. They need maybe blue line overhaul. In an ideal world (a fancy way of saying fantasy world), Girardi, Staal, Holden, Klein are all gone. Smith is retained, Shattenkirk signs a friendly deal and one or two of the free agent signings like Bereglazov or Pionk impress and earn a roster spot out of camp.

    McDonagh/Shattenkirk
    Skjei/Smith
    Graves/Bereglazov
    X

    It's not perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than what they have now. And it's something you can build on going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Show me the last high priced/long term contract we've given to a defenseman that's worked out...

    I am the definition of "on the fence" about this one. Will he be over paid? Yes. Will he live up to the hype? No. Will he play well? Who knows? I have been watching him closely during the playoffs knowing that we're the front runners to get him, and honestly, I'm not impressed. He's fine but he hasn't made the Caps better. On paper, it looks awesome. McD, Skjei, Smith and Shattenkirk as the top 4 LOOKS great. But the money is scary. The term is scary. And again, will history repeat itself? Probably. It always does.
    Idk Wade Redden was pretty good

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post

    I'll always be torn on it. I just don't want the Rangers to be that team that "blows him away" with an offer. If he wants to come to NY, make him come at our terms, not his.
    Exactly. We must bet on some kind of home town discount. But D-men are valued at crazy levels these days, so to get a 29-year-old 1st pair-guy out of UFA is incredible and something the Rangers need to push very hard at.

    In my opinion, the Rangers could be a Shattenkirk away from the Cup. I don't think we are that far away presently, and an improved D-line plus the complete implementation of Vesey and Buch will put us in a very, very strong position next season.
    Last edited by Rosenvold; 05-02-2017 at 04:57 AM.

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    If the Rangers dont get ShattDeuces then who do you guys want to be the PPQB? Rangers havent had one since Leetch/Zubov and if you cant tell their PP has sucked since then except for the year they had Straka/Nylander/Jagr. The PP for the most part is this teams downfall and here is a guy that is practically falling into our laps. Of course the Rangers shouldnt sign him if we are bidding against ourselves, in addition if he wants $7+ million per year.

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    We haven't had a PPQB since Leetch/Zubov, but how many have we signed/traded for that ultimately could not fill that role? The fear is that Shattenkirk would become another one of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphinity View Post
    We haven't had a PPQB since Leetch/Zubov, but how many have we signed/traded for that ultimately could not fill that role? The fear is that Shattenkirk would become another one of those.
    I dont know, how many?
    Redden? Everyone knew Redden was a mistake before Sather signed him. he was already awful for Ottawa, and it was a time for change of scenery for Redden that management thought would work out.
    Berard? He had 1 eye.
    Dan Boyle? He was already on the other side, he came here to retire.

    Its more of the signings of Mike Keane, David Karpa, etc in the past......that I think is scaring everyone about Shattenkirk b/c those signings didnt work out and they got huge paydays. They're totally different players than Shattenkirk.

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    Don't forget Yandle


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    Shattenkirk can't play 1st pair minutes - or at least he never has - and I don't think he has the defensive chutzpah to do so. To me, you can't give a guy $6.5-7m to run a powerplay and get sheltered minutes.

    If he really wants to be a Ranger and will come in at $5m or so, that's a different discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Don't forget Yandle


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    Rangers didnt sign him to a FA contract ala what would be Shattenkirk.
    and Yandle still had close to 50 points last year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Heaven View Post
    Rangers didnt sign him to a FA contract ala what would be Shattenkirk.
    and Yandle still had close to 50 points last year
    Ray mentioned sign/trade


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    I'd love to think that Shatty will be for the Rangers what Eric Staal was to the Wild this season. I want that to happen, but I'm not sure I believe it will.
    The fact that we'd use this guy as a #2 defensemen scares me, but who knows...Maybe Beukeboom will be able to up his defensive game (wishful thinking).
    MacKinnon > Stepan and Kreider?
    Barrie > Staal + 1st?

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