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Thread: A New Preventitive Method on Climate Change

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    A New Preventitive Method on Climate Change

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2c7c05612a1e

    A groundbreaking climate lawsuit, brought against the federal government by 21 children, has been hailed by environmentalists as a bold new strategy to press for climate action in the United States. But the Trump administration, which has pledged to undo Barack Obama’s climate regulations, is doing its best to make sure the case doesn’t get far.

    The Trump administration this week filed a motion to overturn a ruling by a federal judge back in November that cleared the lawsuit for trial — and filed a separate motion to delay trial preparation until that appeal is considered.

    The lawsuit — the first of its kind — argues the federal government has violated the constitutional right of the 21 plaintiffs to a healthy climate system.



    Any thoughts on this as a legal strategy?

    What sort of can of worms could this open up for other similar types of lawsuits?

    Do you think they could win?

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    I don't think any court can give this suit any credence, because of how important legal precedent is. If you establish legal precedent, anyone that has an environmental gripe will point to this suit. Air, water etc is determined not only by the US government but neighboring countries, in fact the whole world. Seems like world law on fisheries, Antarctica, oil/gas, other natural resources might be better guideposts to managing climate change. But rep for the topic and Cotton from Dodgeball, awesome character - have to spread rep first
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    I almost feel bad for idling my truck 16 hours a day from November through March.


    Almost.

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    I wish the rest of the world would just blackball US companies who pollute. That would be a far more effective means of climate regulation.

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    Aren't asian countries by far the biggest culprits in pollution?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Aren't asian countries by far the biggest culprits in pollution?
    Yea China is awful and I think India is pretty close.

    I assume a lot of that pollution is from American companies who manufacture there though. And if not, I wish the rest of the world, including The States, would blackball those companies as well. If the whole world would just agree to not buy shit from companies who pollute, the problem would solve itself.

    Wishful thinking, and we'll continue with ineffective regulation that doesn't do much, but that's what would work.

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    Just need a few more taxes and it'll sort itself out surely.

    I'm not sure if we'll ever come back from the damage though. There's no way to bring polar bears back now that they're gone, and it could be hundreds of years before we ever see ice at the North Pole in August again.

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    Top greenhouse gas emitters: 1. China 2.United States 3. European Union 4. India 5. Russia
    https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/glo...emissions-data

    China's air quality has gotten so bad that they are moving toward wind, solar, etc and away from fossil fuels
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/201...ution-targets/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/wo...pollution.html

    Both the European Union and China, are moving toward reducing greenhouse emissions.
    Under Obama, the U.S. was moving toward reducing greenhouse emissions.
    Under Trump, many of the Obama climate initiatives are being scrapped.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/four-...apped-now.html
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1542JT
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    Moving towards renewables in inevitable, but I would recommend keeping the State out of the equation.

    http://business.financialpost.com/fp...tricity-system

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Moving towards renewables in inevitable, but I would recommend keeping the State out of the equation.

    http://business.financialpost.com/fp...tricity-system
    Environment is actually the one area where I don't mind government involvement and I think it was the best of all Obamas initiatives.

    The problem is that it was basically half-assed so it didn't go anywhere and it's very easy for Trump & Co. to get rid of it all. There should have been a far more significant investment in greentech infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Environment is actually the one area where I don't mind government involvement and I think it was the best of all Obamas initiatives.

    The problem is that it was basically half-assed so it didn't go anywhere and it's very easy for Trump & Co. to get rid of it all. There should have been a far more significant investment in greentech infrastructure.
    Maybe if it's done correctly. It won't be. The State never does anything correctly. Anywhere.

    Read that article. We have a very progressive Liberal government full of very smart bureaucrats. Every single citizen in this province now owes an extra $13,000 in Electric Bills over the next 30 years because of Green energy that was forced in to place by technocrats with no real world knowledge of how anything works. That's real money.

    When I had a nice, secluded home in the country I went from $250/Month for Hydro to $500/Month almost overnight completely due to the Governments policy decisions. It was such a hardship that I was forced to move. These decisions harm many people and all for what? What is the gain? Are we attempting to freeze climate in it's place?

    Nobody has been able to tell me how having some extra plant food in the atmosphere and .2 degrees Celsius warmer temperatures is a negative. Nobody can tell me how much of a role, specifically, that Humans play in the climate. It can't be done. They don't know. Their models always turn out to be utter rubbish and any goodwill they built up in the past 20 years has been completely eroded due to their histrionics and hyperbole and continued predictions of things that never come to fruition.

    The 97% thing is pretty flimsy at best, and at worse completely dishonest. Any prominent scientist that stands up against this orthodoxy is immediately slandered. Whether it's Richard Lindzen or Judith Curry or one of the many, many others it seems to me that the science is far from settled.

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    Quite obviously, I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that when you have a hypothesis where no rebuttal can be formed, or no rebuttal can't be magically explained away by the hypothesis it's a pretty shitty hypothesis.

    It's warming; Global Warming
    It's snowing; Global Warming
    It's Cooling; Global Warming
    Catastrophic Storms; Global Warming
    Lack of Storms; Global Warming


    Everything is magically explained by a hypothesis they aren't very good at modelling and that's very suspicious to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Quite obviously, I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that when you have a hypothesis where no rebuttal can be formed, or no rebuttal can't be magically explained away by the hypothesis it's a pretty shitty hypothesis.

    It's warming; Global Warming
    It's snowing; Global Warming
    It's Cooling; Global Warming
    Catastrophic Storms; Global Warming
    Lack of Storms; Global Warming


    Everything is magically explained by a hypothesis they aren't very good at modelling and that's very suspicious to me.
    https://www.skepticalscience.com/
    Is one resource that debunks many common arguments by climate change deniers.

    Scientists aren't talking about 0.2 degree Celsius, they are talking about degrees Celsius change.

    Since the 1970s through the 1980s, 1990s, etc. as more years of data were collected, global trends became more apparent. People have been concerned about climate change for 40+ years, so more and more certainty and consensus has been reached as alternative explanations have been investigated and discarded.

    https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

    We weren't sure that smoking caused cancer. Until lots of studies and lots of years, scientists arrived at a consensus. Phillip Morris would trot out experts saying that there is no causal link between smoking and cancer, just as the fossil fuels industry trots out scientists saying there is no link between man and climate change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...eptics-science

    Trump is prone to believe in conspiracies: Obama wasn't born in the U.S., vaccines could harm public health, climate change is a hoax.
    By surrounding himself with oil/gas people, his belief that climate change is a hoax is reinforced by his inner circle.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.2f292ab5bd52
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    I'd disagree with your first sentence. Nobody is denying that climate changes. It's an argument of rate, effect, cause etc..

    Also, the attempt to denigrate the opinions of perfectly legitimate scientists and to portray them as charlatans or simple shills for Big Oil is pretty ironic considering the amount of Government money that flows in the other direction.


    Pragmatically, I'm forced to pay money to support this cause. Not hundreds, but thousands of dollars, to guarantee the prices of government contracts that are so bad you don't know whether to laugh or cry when you see the price tag.
    Last edited by Dunny; 03-23-2017 at 08:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    I'd disagree with your first sentence. Nobody is denying that climate changes. It's an argument of rate, effect, cause etc..

    Also, the attempt to denigrate the opinions of perfectly legitimate scientists and to portray them as charlatans or simple shills for Big Oil is pretty ironic considering the amount of Government money that flows in the other direction.


    Pragmatically, I'm forced to pay money to support this cause. Not hundreds, but thousands of dollars, to guarantee the prices of government contracts that are so bad you don't know whether to laugh or cry when you see the price tag.
    Blame the government for how they are choosing to reduce emissions. Blame industry for not taking a larger role, instead of having the government come down so heavy-handed.

    Sorry that the (you) as consumer are paying such a high price. When consumers pay a disproportionate cost, the system has failed.

    A combination of free-market forces and regulation (in a better world) to increase efficiency, improve technology, funnel jobs from one sector to another, transition the work force from the old jobs to new jobs, and save the planet while everybody made more money.

    But we've created an artificial arena where the public thinks big business and environmentalists are combatants.

    Big business isn't going anywhere, jobs are important, and we need energy to power our world. Environmentalists want to use less energy, and make better energy choices.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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    If you look at what steps china is currently taking to address the issue one can argue that they are doing a lot more than the US these days even though they are still the #1 pollutant. With trump in the White House it probably won't be long until the good ole USA is #1 which is just unbelievable.

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