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Thread: Rangers to Play Sabres at Citi Field in Winter Classic Next Season?

  1. #61
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    Have you heard of the NACDA Cup?
    Award given to the college deemed to have the most successful sports programs.
    There are only 10 schools which have been ranked every year since it started 15 or 20 years ago.

    Penn State
    Stanford
    UCA
    USC
    Florida
    Ohio State
    Texas
    North Carolina
    Michigan

    As far as sports revenue, Penn State ranks 6th with 82 million per year.
    On the other hand, Buffalo actually has to subsidize 3/4 of their sports programs by student fees

    Here is a article explaining that UB has some of the highest subsidizing of sports, and some of the smallest ticket and revenue sales.
    http://buffalonews.com/2015/11/28/sm...for-ub-sports/

    You really can't compare the Buffalo University to Penn State in regards to sports.
    Last edited by Puck Head; 03-16-2017 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Have you heard of the NACDA Cup?
    Award given to the college deemed to have the most successful sports programs.
    There are only 10 schools which have been ranked every year since it started 15 or 20 years ago.

    Penn State
    Stanford
    UCA
    USC
    Florida
    Ohio State
    Texas
    North Carolina
    Michigan

    You really can't compare the Buffalo University to Penn State.
    Yea, but that includes non-revenue sports. They're irrelevant in basically every context, other than Title IX, including whether or not a $100 million donation would help launch a hockey program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    And they are STILL 54TH in attendance. That's not a hockey program, it's an also-ran, when talking about making it a fixture of a region and helping the game itself grow. You're ignoring the fact that I'm not talking about whether or not the team is good, I'm talking about whether or not it has reach. Being 20th and having players (every school gets player from everywhere, but there's no way they have the budget to actively recruit from everywhere. I bet most of their players played junior somewhere close.) has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You can google their roster all you want to find those guys, it's not like they are helping grow the game in Buffalo. Their top three players - 2 leading scorers and goalie - are from Buffalo, Lancaster, and a grad transfer from Ferris St.
    You're all over the place. They can't recruit nationally, but every team gets players from everywhere? They have players from everywhere, but don't have money to recruit from everywhere? Their players, even some from NY, played Junior all over the place. Being good doesn't matter, so a shittastic team at UB would be better for the area than a nationally ranked Canisius? In what world is UB a nation wide recruiting powerhouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    And playing in HarborCenter, which is also home to a number of other teams, isn't even close to the facility they have at - using them again - Bemidji State, which has the Sandford Center. HarborCenter holds like 1,800. If Canisius sold out every game they'd still only rank like 46th in attendance.

    What do Villanova, St. John's and SH have to do with anything? They're not D-1 programs, nor are they in Buffalo...nor do they play at Wells Fargo, the Garden or the Meadowlands. You're talking about the bball teams.
    I know those are bball teams. They illustrate that there is no reason Canisius couldn't play games at the 19+ thousand seat arena right next door to the harbor center. Canisius has about doubled its attendance from before they played at the harbor center. Being good is what drives interest and creates reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The Recruitment, Facilities, and Money are all because of Pegula's $100 million donation. He could do the exact same thing in Buffalo tomorrow. UB has basically the same program PSU had before Pegula showed up. I'm sure there are other good coaches out there who could similarly build a program.

    Penn State's only "powerhouse" team is football. They're middling in just about everything else, like UB.
    The Penn State football program as well as their membership in the Big Ten, just like every major college football team, brings in big money to fund the entire athletic department. UB doesn't have that. $100 million dollar donation to UB would need continued donations yearly to operate at the same level as Penn State.

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    As far as sports revenue, Penn State ranks 6th with 82 million per year.
    On the other hand, Buffalo actually has to subsidize 3/4 of their sports programs by student fees

    Here is a article explaining that UB has some of the highest subsidizing of sports, and some of the smallest ticket and revenue sales.
    http://buffalonews.com/2015/11/28/sm...for-ub-sports/

    You really can't compare the Buffalo University to Penn State in regards to sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    You're all over the place. They can't recruit nationally, but every team gets players from everywhere? They have players from everywhere, but don't have money to recruit from everywhere? Their players, even some from NY, played Junior all over the place. Being good doesn't matter, so a shittastic team at UB would be better for the area than a nationally ranked Canisius? In what world is UB a nation wide recruiting powerhouse?
    Players go to colleges, even D-1 schools, without being explicitly recruited.
    I know those are bball teams. They illustrate that there is no reason Canisius couldn't play games at the 19+ thousand seat arena right next door to the harbor center. Canisius has about doubled its attendance from before they played at the harbor center. Being good is what drives interest and creates reach.
    Ohio State plays in the biggest college hockey arena. It holds 17,500. Basketball teams don't illustrate anything.
    The Penn State football program as well as their membership in the Big Ten, just like every major college football team, brings in big money to fund the entire athletic department. UB doesn't have that. $100 million dollar donation to UB would need continued donations yearly to operate at the same level as Penn State.
    I mean neither you or I know what the cost of operating a hockey team is each year, beyond what it was as a club. If a new arena for UB costs, say, $50m, that other $50m is lot of runway for running a program that already has legs.

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    Actually it's public information in regards to costs associated to NCAA hockey budgets


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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    You really can't compare the Buffalo University to Penn State in regards to sports.
    I'm not doing that. In terms of hockey, UB is exactly where Penn State was 5 years ago. Financially, none of those sports matter, and it's not as if State College is making money hand over fist and turning Pennsylvania into a volleyball hotbed.

    If all the start-up fees are covered by a private donation, and the team can pull 2,500 people to 17 home games a year...at ~$10 a ticket, that's $425,000 just on ticket revenue. With sponsors, that would pretty much cover any costs that the team doesn't currently have I'd have to imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Actually it's public information in regards to costs associated to NCAA hockey budgets


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    Ok, how much does UB spend on the club hockey team?

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    UB can't afford the teams they have now

    Penn state can afford their teams plus support a hockey team


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    What do you mean they can't afford them? They have them, which means they can afford them.

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    I'm done. Once again. This shit's ridiculous.

    Basketball teams from small colleges playing in NBA arena's don't illustrate the ability for a Hockey team from a small college to play in an NHL arena?

    Players go to colleges without being explicitly recruited, and the name UB is more important than being good and having success on the field. Got it.

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    I believe you would need to at least triple your 425k annual to run a div1 program

    Maybe much more


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    I was just told the average cost of a NCAA program last year for hockey was 2.5 million

    Ours was around 2.1 last year
    Our rival was 1.9


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    Your ticket price intake of 425,000
    Probably doesn't cover operating costs of this arena let alone kick in money towards the program


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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    I'm done. Once again. This shit's ridiculous.

    Basketball teams from small colleges playing in NBA arena's don't illustrate the ability for a Hockey team from a small college to play in an NHL arena?

    Players go to colleges without being explicitly recruited, and the name UB is more important than being good and having success on the field. Got it.
    No, it doesn't, especially since two of those three schools are the premier team in major markets. There's a reason there's not a single D-1 hockey school that plays in an NHL arena.

    Player A plays junior hockey and doesn't get drafted. He is now ready to play college hockey. He finds schools with educational programs that match his interests and has a hockey team then reaches out the coach to play. Coach likes Player A and provides financial assistance for Player A to come to the University. That is not recruiting, and that shit happens all the time.

    It isn't. If Buffalo wants to be a hockey hotbed, it should be because it has state-wide reach. Canisius doesn't. You get so distracted by tangential arguments that you don't even argue the point I'm actually making. Your entire argument that Canisius can be as popular as UB could be is that they are ranked #20 and are 54th in attendance and Villanova basketball. Don't tell me I'm ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Your ticket price intake of 425,000
    Probably doesn't cover operating costs of this arena let alone kick in money towards the program


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    No, not alone. That's in addition to any sponsorships and the private donation. Let's just say the yearly operational cost is $3m.

    A $100m donation - $60m for an arena leaves $40m. Thats enough to cover the team for another 13 years without a single sponsorship, ticket sale, or other events.

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    NCAA hockey is not dependent on players not drafted reaching out to schools.

    These players are scouted, and scouted again from the age of 16

    It's a selection process, not a decision process


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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    NCAA hockey is not dependent on players not drafted reaching out to schools.

    These players are scouted, and scouted again from the age of 16

    It's a selection process, not a decision process


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    I mean I'm not saying it's dependent or that that's the story for every single kid, but I'd bet that's the standard for kid who ends up at Canisius.

    Selecting and recruiting aren't the same. I'd love to know if you know someone who works as a scout for a tiny D-1 hockey team that travels across the country actively recruiting. I know two kids who played D-1 hockey and both when the junior route that I'm talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    No, it doesn't, especially since two of those three schools are the premier team in major markets. There's a reason there's not a single D-1 hockey school that plays in an NHL arena.

    Player A plays junior hockey and doesn't get drafted. He is now ready to play college hockey. He finds schools with educational programs that match his interests and has a hockey team then reaches out the coach to play. Coach likes Player A and provides financial assistance for Player A to come to the University. That is not recruiting, and that shit happens all the time.

    It isn't. If Buffalo wants to be a hockey hotbed, it should be because it has state-wide reach. Canisius doesn't. You get so distracted by tangential arguments that you don't even argue the point I'm actually making. Your entire argument that Canisius can be as popular as UB could be is that they are ranked #20 and are 54th in attendance and Villanova basketball. Don't tell me I'm ridiculous.
    Yup, coach likes player A. Great way to build a winning program. I'm distracted, but you have yet to give one concrete reason why more people would attend a UB game than a Canisius game. They are literally right next to each other. What is so impressive about the name UB that is going to make attendance explode? If there was this massive interest in college hockey just waiting for UB to have a team, why would they not go watch nationally ranked Canisius while they wait? How do you quantify this "state-wide reach" UB supposedly has?

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