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Thread: Police Shoot, Kill Oklahoma Man With His Hands Up

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    An iconic moment in history, no doubt, but that doesn't erase the data. If a company has a long tenured history of sexual harassment against women and sexism against them and they hire a female CEO, that doesn't change history or absolve those sins.

    It's going to take generations to cure this problem, but it starts by acknowledging there actually is one to begin with.
    Clearly we can't change history but we can learn from it and move on. I'm 3rd generation American and, as far as I know, no one on my family tree owned slaves. But even if they did I find that part of American history abhorrent. I also don't feel the need to be a white apologist. We learn and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    You're talking about two different issues that blacks suffer from simultaneously. BLM is about racism, bigotry, and what are perceived to be wrongful police shootings based on data that does indicate that blacks are killed by police at a much higher rate than other races.





    http://www.vox.com/2016/9/19/1298123...shooting-video

    You do understand that violent crimes committed are overwhelmingly by black perpetrators right (you can check any month or year of the NYPD compstat for proof)? It puts the stats you're listing in context. It's like saying forwards score more goals than defensmen. Yeah, because they spend more time around the net. Obviously, a broad analogy, but you're logical enough to realize that those committing more violent crimes with a higher use of weapons are more likely to get shot by responding police.

    As Chris said earlier, it doesn't make incidents like the Tulsa incident right. It appears that she fucked up. It's awful and she's going to have to live with that and face the consequences. What I don't understand is the incidents where people are clearly in the wrong and still are made martyrs. There's no justification for the response if the black community in North Carolina.

    Why does a cop or civilian by stander have to die before society deems it acceptable to take police action? It's part of the force continuum taught in every academy. You come at me with fists, I use a baton or a taser. You come at me with a knife or a gun, I'm drawing down on you. It's amazing because in NYC we've had a guys with knives get killed or shot a few times in the 2016 and police shot both times. I know first hand because both occurred in my precinct. There was no outrage because people got hurt before police took the shot. My question is, why do people have to get hurt before its socially acceptable for cops to eliminate the threat? Why should an innocent bystander have to get hurt before its okay to shoot a perp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    This is a reach here because what President in recent times has won by a landslide? Every election is close like that, doesn't matter who the candidate is. Do you think this election is going to be much different?
    What are you even talking about?



    It was said that minorities were past the worst of racism because there is a black president, I said, just because 51% of the population voted for him doesnt prove anything about the population at large because your talking about a ~3% majority, that isnt a convincing statistic. Now your saying that I expect massive landslide victories in presidential elections?
    ___________LETS GO RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    You do understand that violent crimes committed are overwhelmingly by black perpetrators right (you can check any month or year of the NYPD compstat for proof)? It puts the stats you're listing in context. It's like saying forwards score more goals than defensmen. Yeah, because they spend more time around the net. Obviously, a broad analogy, but you're logical enough to realize that those committing more violent crimes with a higher use of weapons are more likely to get shot by responding police.
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...decoverviewpdf
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    Shooting someone because you think they may do something is why people are angry. If you shoot someone who hurt people it is seen as justified, but killing someone because they may do something is an easy excuse. Hell, the US started a war in Iraq because they have have attacked first. There's just something fishy about it.

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    Also something to note in the North Carolina incident, North Carolina is an open carry state. The possession of a firearm is not enough reason to consider someone a threat unless that person actively threatens someone verbally or raises the weapon.


    I would have to do some serious reading because this seems to be all grey area. Does an officer have the right to demand to see your permit if he sees you open carrying? Is that comparable to an officer pulling you over demanding to see your drivers license if you have yet to commit a crime?

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016...of-his-answer/

    I explained to him that we cannot order you to put your gun away and we cannot order you to present your permit, but as a business owner, if you’re not comfortable with him being in here, you have that option,” the officer told the man.
    This was in Connecticut, man enters a Subway looking to get food and is open carrying, police show up and demand his permit, he refuses saying he hasnt broken any laws so there for they have no reason to ask for the permit and the officers have to admit he is correct and let him go.



    I am not an open carry proponent, this is just the reality that we live in currently.
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    Here are the Washington Post stats for police shootings in 15 and 16
    2015

    White
    494
    Black
    258
    Unarmed
    White
    32
    Black
    38

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/

    2016
    White
    324
    Black
    173
    Unarmed
    White
    19
    Black
    15

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...hootings-2016/

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Here are the Washington Post stats for police shootings in 15 and 16
    2015

    White
    494
    Black
    258
    Unarmed
    White
    32
    Black
    38

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/

    2016
    White
    324
    Black
    173
    Unarmed
    White
    19
    Black
    15

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...hootings-2016/
    Keith, how many arrests are made yearly in the country?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
    What are you even talking about?



    It was said that minorities were past the worst of racism because there is a black president, I said, just because 51% of the population voted for him doesnt prove anything about the population at large because your talking about a ~3% majority, that isnt a convincing statistic. Now your saying that I expect massive landslide victories in presidential elections?
    You never said any of that, this was your entire post:

    You do realize he had 51% of the vote and not like 80% right?
    That post alone says that he barely won the election when in fact most elections are that close. Your making it seem like he barely had any votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
    Also something to note in the North Carolina incident, North Carolina is an open carry state. The possession of a firearm is not enough reason to consider someone a threat unless that person actively threatens someone verbally or raises the weapon.


    I would have to do some serious reading because this seems to be all grey area. Does an officer have the right to demand to see your permit if he sees you open carrying? Is that comparable to an officer pulling you over demanding to see your drivers license if you have yet to commit a crime?

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016...of-his-answer/



    This was in Connecticut, man enters a Subway looking to get food and is open carrying, police show up and demand his permit, he refuses saying he hasnt broken any laws so there for they have no reason to ask for the permit and the officers have to admit he is correct and let him go.



    I am not an open carry proponent, this is just the reality that we live in currently.
    The problem with the North Carolina case, while its an open carry case, your not allowed to have it unholstered while approaching police. The police chief who viewed the video and even CNN stated that the gun was in his hand, not in any holster. Once you draw that firearm, especially at police, all bets are off.

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    These stats are 4 years old

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    You never said any of that, this was your entire post:
    I actually did say that, you just quoted the first post in a conversation and didnt make it to the end of the conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    That post alone says that he barely won the election when in fact most elections are that close. Your making it seem like he barely had any votes.
    I said he had 51% of the vote, I dont know how saying he had a slight majority is making it seem like he barely had any votes.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    The problem with the North Carolina case, while its an open carry case, your not allowed to have it unholstered while approaching police. The police chief who viewed the video and even CNN stated that the gun was in his hand, not in any holster. Once you draw that firearm, especially at police, all bets are off.
    But what I am asking is, the police werent there for any reason concerning him originally and they approached him not the other way around. Is having a gun out of your holster enough of a reason legally to approach someone and issue commands as an officer? Honestly have no idea how that interaction works in an open carry state. Ive seen plenty of open carry advocate stuff with people carrying fully loaded AR-15's in hand(not slung over back) but no hand guns.
    Last edited by Mentosman42; 09-23-2016 at 05:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
    But what I am asking is, the police werent there for any reason concerning him originally and they approached him not the other way around. Is having a gun out of your holster enough of a reason legally to approach someone and issue commands as an officer? Honestly have no idea how that interaction works in an open carry state. Ive seen plenty of open carry advocate stuff with people carrying fully loaded AR-15's in hand(not slung over back) but no hand guns.
    Everything I have read states he approached them, then went back to his car and then came out again, each time with the gun in his hand. As per the CNN report, he pointed the gun at them. I would imagine though in an open carry state that you can't have a hand gun in your hand walking around, I believe it has to be holstered unless you are planning on using it. Again, things change once you approach police with a gun in your hand. That is a threatening gesture. They were also at the apartment complex to effect an arrest warrant on someone else.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Keith, how many arrests are made yearly in the country?
    Honestly, I have no idea but it's gotta be easily in the millions

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Keith, how many arrests are made yearly in the country?
    Most recent year I could find is for 2010.

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...rsons-arrested

    13,120,947 arrests of all kinds. More detailed break downs in the link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Honestly, I have no idea but it's gotta be easily in the millions

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Most recent year I could find is for 2010.

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...rsons-arrested

    13,120,947 arrests of all kinds. More detailed break downs in the link.
    Thanks AJ. I guess the breakdown of the violent crimes would be better. 13 mill is a lot, but petty theft and other instances where there's no threat adds to that number.
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  17. #77
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    That link Dave provided looks like its above 1m per year for violent crimes

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