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Thread: Colin Kaepernick Refusal to Stand for National Anthem Ignites Controversy

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    Colin Kaepernick Refusal to Stand for National Anthem Ignites Controversy

    http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pat...es-controversy

    --

    This is making waves all over traditional and social media. We ought to have a conversation on it, too.
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    I disagree with his logic for multiple reasons, but he's also not the first athlete to do this. First of all, I understand it's his right as a citizen to do what he did. The argument by those defending him are saying that the flag represents and protects those rights. However, the anthem is played to honor those that protect those rights, which include many AA in the military. The anthem is something that should unite us, and not be used to make a statement for a personal agenda. What he did and what others do only make things worse and cause MORE controversy than there was the day before. He's not going to change anything, you're not going to change anything, and I'm not going to change anything. Everyone has a stance, and no one is changing anyone's mind, ever. Not in sports, not in politics, not in shit. If more people just minded their own fuckin business, there would be less bullshit, fighting, killing, blah blah. These politicians roam the country for what? Are they changing anyone's mind? Fuck no. You either like a mother fucker or you don't.
    In addition, the NFL has done everything to prove that African Americans are anything but oppressed. There's mandatory rules for interviewing AA for head coaching positions, gm spots, etc.
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    He's well within his right to not stand, but I think considering a lot of the options to form a kind of protest, this one was probably the least thought out. It seems very small and petty, but then again here we are talking about it, so in a way its pretty effective.

    Still, I think NBA players have done a better job with their statements. Small things like warm up shirts with slogans, or team pictures in solidarity with a movement work well. Even some of the bigger issues that some players like Melo, LeBron, Wade and Paul have taken on have gone over well IMO. They're not flashy, or controversial, but theyre important.

    One theory that was interesting to me was that this was all a move to either keep himself on the team or blame politics instead of poor play if he gets cut/traded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvbcaboose View Post
    He's well within his right to not stand, but I think considering a lot of the options to form a kind of protest, this one was probably the least thought out. It seems very small and petty, but then again here we are talking about it, so in a way its pretty effective.

    Still, I think NBA players have done a better job with their statements. Small things like warm up shirts with slogans, or team pictures in solidarity with a movement work well. Even some of the bigger issues that some players like Melo, LeBron, Wade and Paul have taken on have gone over well IMO. They're not flashy, or controversial, but theyre important.

    One theory that was interesting to me was that this was all a move to either keep himself on the team or blame politics instead of poor play if he gets cut/traded.
    Yes, we're talking about it, and the whole country is talking about it as well. So now to go back to my previous post, what good has it done? Nothing. Whose mind has he changed? No one. It's caused more arguing on social media, people deleting friends, friends of friends fighting with each other that don't even know each other, people burning his jersey, etc ... His "stance" was fuckin dumb. Period.
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    In the minds of Kaepernick and his supporters, hes brought an issue to light by using his stage as an NFL player, albeit a declining one. That's what hes accomplished. I don't think the objective was to actively change something, but to start talking about it, whether it be the protest itself or the message. If the media is constantly talking about it, then yeah, he has 'accomplished' something.

    I agree that this kind of shit does more harm than good, and that it has no real (physical) accomplishment. But to the eyes of so many people who take this shit so seriously on the internet, he's some sort of saint for bringing the issue up. They're not going to do anything, most of these people just want to feel outraged about something. It's how they've grown up intellectually. They've been told to be outraged about X, Y, and Z in their formative years, and now they just go out and seek new things to be outraged about.

    In two weeks when hes probably cut from the team, a bunch of media outlets will probably cite his politics as a reason for being cut (although that won't be true). People will be outraged (again). They'll bring up how Chip Kelly is a blatant racist because some player said he was. Then Kaep will probably go on to sign with the Rams and people will praise them.
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    I can't figure out what he's protesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I can't figure out what he's protesting.
    I was thinking the same thing. Here's an open letter from Allen West, he makes some valid points:

    http://http://www.allenbwest.com/all...lin-kaepernick

    The NFL issued a statement that said players are encouraged but not required to stand for the national anthem. Hmm, this is the same NFL that refused to allow the Dallas Cowboys to wear a helmet decal in honor of the fallen Dallas Police officers gunned down on Thursday July 7th
    This is the same NFL that said nothing when players from the then- St. Louis Rams displayed the false narrative symbol of “hands up, dont shoot” — which we know didn’t happen. I find it rather interesting that the NFL has no issue disrespecting law enforcement officers but only “encourages” players to respect the symbol of our nation, the American flag, and our anthem, the Star Spangled Banner
    .

    Kaepernick, a biracial young man adopted and raised by white parents, claims America is oppressing blacks at a time when we have a black, biracial president who was twice elected. We’ve had two black attorneys general and currently have a black secretary of homeland security, along with a black national security advisor. Here in Dallas our police chief, whom I know, is an outstanding black leader. The officer in Milwaukee who shot the armed assailant after issuing an order to drop his weapon was black. Is Mr. Kaepernick following suit and cherry-picking what he terms “oppression?”
    First of all, let me clarify to you sir, you are a multi-millionaire “one-percenter” just because you can throw a ball and kiss your biceps. Men like Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Oscar Robertson, Ernie Davis, and Bernard King and Condredge Halloway of my alma mater were athletes who knew of oppression. You sir may certainly have the right to sit upon your “fourth point of contact” when the National Anthem is played but never forget, you live in a nation that has provided you the privilege to have that right
    Imo, it's guys like Allen West that make a difference. He brings out the positive rather than dwelling on the negative. It's easy to bring up the negative. It's the lazy way out. That's part of the problem. I'm not saying every situation has rainbows and unicorns, but focusing on the positives is the right step.
    Last edited by Mikey37; 08-29-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. Here's an open letter from Allen West, he makes some valid points:

    http://http://www.allenbwest.com/all...lin-kaepernick

    .

    .
    I don't know who Allen West is, but a quick glance at his wiki and I'm not surprised he feels that way.

    Former military and Replican/Tea Partier, not shocking that he's "offended" by this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I don't know who Allen West is, but a quick glance at his wiki and I'm not surprised he feels that way.

    Former military and Replican/Tea Partier, not shocking that he's "offended" by this.
    Why does all of that have to matter? He's been African American since birth, no? He was faced with the same or facing the same challenges as other AA. Only real difference? No excuses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Why does all of that have to matter? He's been African American since birth, no? He was faced with the same or facing the same challenges as other AA. Only real difference? No excuses.
    I can't believe in this day and age, people still think that all African Americans have to do to be successful is try real hard.

    The deck is stacked against a majority of them from birth.

    No, it's not laziness or excuses. That's the cop put excuse white folks like to make so they don't have to acknowledge that racism and bigotry are alive and well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I can't believe in this day and age, people still think that all African Americans have to do to be successful is try real hard.

    The deck is stacked against a majority of them from birth.

    No, it's not laziness or excuses. That's the cop put excuse white folks like to make so they don't have to acknowledge that racism and bigotry are alive and well.
    I'm not saying it doesn't exist, and lets not pretend that racism is a one way white vs. black street because that's certainly not the case. It breeds in every ethnicity towards every other ethnicity. Sitting down during the anthem isn't going to change anything. It only adds fuel to the fire.

    I still don't see why everyone always has to bring political parties into every debate. Why can't either side ever agree on anything without using what party they belong to as an excuse not to agree? It's like they can never share the same opinion because of what side they're on. This isn't Rangers vs. Devils. These are real life issues, and as long as these parties exist, it'll never work and nothing will ever change. I openly admit that I know 0 about politics. I don't belong to a party. I've never voted once in my life. I can find a way to agree on issues from one side or another because I'm neutral, which imo is where the whole country needs to be. A Ranger fan and a Devil fan can't have a civil conversation about who has better players, who has better coaching, who was better 5 years ago Brodeur or Lundqvist .... But they could sit down and logically discuss the Dallas Stars or St. Louis Blues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Yes, we're talking about it, and the whole country is talking about it as well. So now to go back to my previous post, what good has it done? Nothing. Whose mind has he changed? No one. It's caused more arguing on social media, people deleting friends, friends of friends fighting with each other that don't even know each other, people burning his jersey, etc ... His "stance" was fuckin dumb. Period.
    He's changed my mind. In my mind he went from a decent NFL qb who had a few good seasons until the league figured him out and he started to fall back to the pack. He was able to capitalize on his spotlight and make some cash. Now, in my mind, he's just being a little baby bitch. I get what he's trying to do; and like rvbcaboose mentioned, he has succeeded by getting everyone talking about it; I just don't agree with his actions for getting said response. There are far better ways to be able to bring light to his stance than being a disrespectful shithead and not standing for the national anthem. Go use that huge paycheck you have and buy 20 or 30 footballs and teach some "oppressed" city kids how to throw a ball. Volunteer some time at a Boys and Girls Club in some "oppressed" inner city neighborhood and save them from the "oppressing" police for a few hours. Go help the 100s, probably 1000s, of black Americans who's homes have been ruined by the flooding in Louisiana.

    Look, I'm a middle class white guy from Long Island, NY. I know I have no idea what it feels like to be oppressed and no matter what I say I am going to sound either racist, insensitive, careless, ignorant, or whatever else. I don't mean to be. That flag and that song mean a lot to me. I get its his right to disrespect that flag and that song by not standing. I just don't like it. Am I happy with the way things are these days? Fuck no, who really could be? It doesn't mean I am going to hate my country. I love my county, I love that song, and I love that flag. Maybe if more people had that same sentiment it would be a bit more of a happier place here. I mean shit, this fucking guy can't even stand for the national anthem while in Canada you have a whole sold out arena singing Oh Canada in unison before every hockey game. Usain Bolt, a Jamaican, asked a reporter to hold her questions during an interview so that he could stand still and be quiet to show respect for the playing of the Star Spangled Banner. Kaepernick, a multi millionaire making his money throwing a football in America, refuses to stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I don't know who Allen West is, but a quick glance at his wiki and I'm not surprised he feels that way.

    Former military and Replican/Tea Partier, not shocking that he's "offended" by this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I don't know who Allen West is, but a quick glance at his wiki and I'm not surprised he feels that way.

    Former military and Replican/Tea Partier, not shocking that he's "offended" by this.
    What exactly does being former military have to do with anything about being offended? After reading it I don't even see it as him being offended as much as I see it as him telling Kaepernick to stop being such a bitch and to instead use his position in a more positive way to help his cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I'm not saying it doesn't exist, and lets not pretend that racism is a one way white vs. black street because that's certainly not the case. It breeds in every ethnicity towards every other ethnicity. Sitting down during the anthem isn't going to change anything. It only adds fuel to the fire.

    I still don't see why everyone always has to bring political parties into every debate. Why can't either side ever agree on anything without using what party they belong to as an excuse not to agree? It's like they can never share the same opinion because of what side they're on. This isn't Rangers vs. Devils. These are real life issues, and as long as these parties exist, it'll never work and nothing will ever change. I openly admit that I know 0 about politics. I don't belong to a party. I've never voted once in my life. I can find a way to agree on issues from one side or another because I'm neutral, which imo is where the whole country needs to be. A Ranger fan and a Devil fan can't have a civil conversation about who has better players, who has better coaching, who was better 5 years ago Brodeur or Lundqvist .... But they could sit down and logically discuss the Dallas Stars or St. Louis Blues.
    Racism may be a 2 way street, but only white men are the ones in a position to exert power.

    Party affiliations tell you about people's tendencies. As soon as I read the quote, I figured he was a conservative. So I researched. 3rd generation military and republican tea partier. It's not surprising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveByRichter35 View Post
    He's changed my mind. In my mind he went from a decent NFL qb who had a few good seasons until the league figured him out and he started to fall back to the pack. He was able to capitalize on his spotlight and make some cash. Now, in my mind, he's just being a little baby bitch. I get what he's trying to do; and like rvbcaboose mentioned, he has succeeded by getting everyone talking about it; I just don't agree with his actions for getting said response. There are far better ways to be able to bring light to his stance than being a disrespectful shithead and not standing for the national anthem. Go use that huge paycheck you have and buy 20 or 30 footballs and teach some "oppressed" city kids how to throw a ball. Volunteer some time at a Boys and Girls Club in some "oppressed" inner city neighborhood and save them from the "oppressing" police for a few hours. Go help the 100s, probably 1000s, of black Americans who's homes have been ruined by the flooding in Louisiana.

    Look, I'm a middle class white guy from Long Island, NY. I know I have no idea what it feels like to be oppressed and no matter what I say I am going to sound either racist, insensitive, careless, ignorant, or whatever else. I don't mean to be. That flag and that song mean a lot to me. I get its his right to disrespect that flag and that song by not standing. I just don't like it. Am I happy with the way things are these days? Fuck no, who really could be? It doesn't mean I am going to hate my country. I love my county, I love that song, and I love that flag. Maybe if more people had that same sentiment it would be a bit more of a happier place here. I mean shit, this fucking guy can't even stand for the national anthem while in Canada you have a whole sold out arena singing Oh Canada in unison before every hockey game. Usain Bolt, a Jamaican, asked a reporter to hold her questions during an interview so that he could stand still and be quiet to show respect for the playing of the Star Spangled Banner. Kaepernick, a multi millionaire making his money throwing a football in America, refuses to stand.





    What exactly does being former military have to do with anything about being offended? After reading it I don't even see it as him being offended as much as I see it as him telling Kaepernick to stop being such a bitch and to instead use his position in a more positive way to help his cause.
    What does being former military have to do with his thoughts on someone not standing for the anthem? I'd say it has quite alot to do with it.

    Personally, I think national anthems and pledges of allegiance are silly. I don't pledge allegiance to anything, or repeat any devotions of indoctrination. I criticize my country when it's not acting right.

    That's the very definition of freedom. And its the best thing about this country. Not standing for the anthem? Sorry, not disrespectful. The only thing Kaepernick is guilty of is being an idiot and not protesting something tangible. "oppression" is a stupid thing to try and protest. Give me some actual incidents of oppression that you feel strongly about, and are protesting, and I'm on board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Racism may be a 2 way street, but only white men are the ones in a position to exert power.

    Party affiliations tell you about people's tendencies. As soon as I read the quote, I figured he was a conservative. So I researched. 3rd generation military and republican tea partier. It's not surprising.
    Yes, I understand what you're saying. I'm asking why does it matter? I know that you have very different political views from others on this board. None of you can ever agree on anything other than to disagree. So my point stands, no one is changing anyone's mind/stance for the better. Fwiw, I do agree with certain things you believe in, but I also agree with others on theirs. Then there's this thing called middle ground, which neither party can ever meet at. That's the problem, not a solution. Does that mean you're always right? No. Does it mean you're always wrong? No. It means the majority of this country will never agree, and we're all just treading water until we die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Yes, I understand what you're saying. I'm asking why does it matter? I know that you have very different political views from others on this board. None of you can ever agree on anything other than to disagree. So my point stands, no one is changing anyone's mind/stance for the better. Fwiw, I do agree with certain things you believe in, but I also agree with others on theirs. Then there's this thing called middle ground, which neither party can ever meet at. That's the problem, not a solution. Does that mean you're always right? No. Does it mean you're always wrong? No. It means the majority of this country will never agree, and we're all just treading water until we die.
    Just illustrating that his opinion isn't exactly unbiased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Just illustrating that his opinion isn't exactly unbiased.
    Do you think there are people out there that agree with him that don't share his personal background or political party stance? My point is this ... I have no bias one way or another. I don't care if this guy is white, black, or purple with yellow stripes. I don't care if he was in the military, law enforcement, or a cashier at Wal Mart. To me, the things he says make sense. Tomorrow there might be an issue where I disagree with him and agree with his rival party, and I won't be ashamed or feel embarrassed for agreeing with someone from the other side like most people are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveByRichter35 View Post
    He's changed my mind. In my mind he went from a decent NFL qb who had a few good seasons until the league figured him out and he started to fall back to the pack. He was able to capitalize on his spotlight and make some cash. Now, in my mind, he's just being a little baby bitch. I get what he's trying to do; and like rvbcaboose mentioned, he has succeeded by getting everyone talking about it; I just don't agree with his actions for getting said response. There are far better ways to be able to bring light to his stance than being a disrespectful shithead and not standing for the national anthem. Go use that huge paycheck you have and buy 20 or 30 footballs and teach some "oppressed" city kids how to throw a ball. Volunteer some time at a Boys and Girls Club in some "oppressed" inner city neighborhood and save them from the "oppressing" police for a few hours. Go help the 100s, probably 1000s, of black Americans who's homes have been ruined by the flooding in Louisiana.

    Look, I'm a middle class white guy from Long Island, NY. I know I have no idea what it feels like to be oppressed and no matter what I say I am going to sound either racist, insensitive, careless, ignorant, or whatever else. I don't mean to be. That flag and that song mean a lot to me. I get its his right to disrespect that flag and that song by not standing. I just don't like it. Am I happy with the way things are these days? Fuck no, who really could be? It doesn't mean I am going to hate my country. I love my county, I love that song, and I love that flag. Maybe if more people had that same sentiment it would be a bit more of a happier place here. I mean shit, this fucking guy can't even stand for the national anthem while in Canada you have a whole sold out arena singing Oh Canada in unison before every hockey game. Usain Bolt, a Jamaican, asked a reporter to hold her questions during an interview so that he could stand still and be quiet to show respect for the playing of the Star Spangled Banner. Kaepernick, a multi millionaire making his money throwing a football in America, refuses to stand.





    What exactly does being former military have to do with anything about being offended? After reading it I don't even see it as him being offended as much as I see it as him telling Kaepernick to stop being such a bitch and to instead use his position in a more positive way to help his cause.
    Regardless of his right to sit during the anthem, he works IN the NFL and FOR the SF Niners. They are his BOSS. They have league rules. They have team rules. All leagues and all teams have rules. Doesn't matter the age, sport, or whether or not they get paid. He is an employee though, and must follow the rules. If the league or the Niners had any fuckin balls, they can tell him if you sit during the anthem, you sit during the game. They have the same rights he does, only they hold the cards. If you don't like or agree with your boss, then quit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Do you think there are people out there that agree with him that don't share his personal background or political party stance? My point is this ... I have no bias one way or another. I don't care if this guy is white, black, or purple with yellow stripes. I don't care if he was in the military, law enforcement, or a cashier at Wal Mart. To me, the things he says make sense. Tomorrow there might be an issue where I disagree with him and agree with his rival party, and I won't be ashamed or feel embarrassed for agreeing with someone from the other side like most people are.
    I guess my point is, he's no less cherry picking "non-oppression" than he accuses Kaepernick of cherry picking. He's just the other side of the same coin, and no it doesn't matter that he's black because he's in the minority among those of his race. He's 3rd generation military. What does he know of the struggle of an inner city black man in, say Chicago? Nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Regardless of his right to sit during the anthem, he works IN the NFL and FOR the SF Niners. They are his BOSS. They have league rules. They have team rules. All leagues and all teams have rules. Doesn't matter the age, sport, or whether or not they get paid. He is an employee though, and must follow the rules. If the league or the Niners had any fuckin balls, they can tell him if you sit during the anthem, you sit during the game. They have the same rights he does, only they hold the cards. If you don't like or agree with your boss, then quit.
    You boss can't require that you stand during the anthem. It's a first amendment violation.

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