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Thread: Rangers Draft [RW] Ty Ronning in 7th Rd (201st) Pick

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Except they're not inflated and you can continue to try and argue that. You're right in saying to take his production with a grain of salt because it's against junior competition, but you're providing a "no duh" argument.
    If he weren't overaged he'd:

    1) be younger playing in the WHL
    or
    2) be his current age playing aggenst larger/more skilled opponents in College/AHL.

    His numbers would likely be less. Therefor, his current numbers, as an undersized/overage in a relatively weaker league, could be considered to be inflated. That's all I'm getting at. Nothing really to nitpick here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Yea, there is no other star player on his line feeding him the puck and he'll still scored more goals this year than the previous 2 years combined.

    He pretty much put last year's 2nd worst WHL team on his back and carried them to the playoffs, granted the BC Division doesn't look very strong this year, but with largely the same team the went from 26 games under .500 to currently 10 games over.
    Well, they're all a year older now as they made little changes. Also got got their Overage D-man back who missed almost entire year last year (Skeoch). Other teams entered their cyclical shitty phase.

    And they're still gonna go out quick, which is good, we'll probably see him in the A this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    If he weren't overaged he'd:

    1) be younger playing in the WHL
    or
    2) be his current age playing aggenst larger/more skilled opponents in College/AHL.

    His numbers would likely be less. Therefor, his current numbers, as an undersized/overage in a relatively weaker league, could be considered to be inflated. That's all I'm getting at. Nothing really to nitpick here.
    He's essentially done what he had to do to remain relevant.

    Had he scored 35 this year I honestly think he'd be suiting up for the Golden Bears next year. As is, he's going to get a chance in the AHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    If he weren't overaged he'd:

    1) be younger playing in the WHL
    or
    2) be his current age playing aggenst larger/more skilled opponents in College/AHL.

    His numbers would likely be less. Therefor, his current numbers, as an undersized/overage in a relatively weaker league, could be considered to be inflated. That's all I'm getting at. Nothing really to nitpick here.
    Saying college is more skilled than the CHL isn't quite right. I do not at all like the CHL, or even the WHL as a developmental league, but NCAA competition is entirely relative to your conference. Otherwise you'd see guys from Robert Morris signing NHL deals every year.

    The reason why I argue the word inflated is that it implies that they're grossly misvaluing him. They're not. This is the production you'd want from someone who's remotely good at his age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Saying college is more skilled than the CHL isn't quite right. I do not at all like the CHL, or even the WHL as a developmental league, but NCAA competition is entirely relative to your conference. Otherwise you'd see guys from Robert Morris signing NHL deals every year.

    The reason why I argue the word inflated is that it implies that they're grossly misvaluing him. They're not. This is the production you'd want from someone who's remotely good at his age.
    Exactly, which makes his stat line over inflated compared to a normal player in his league/in a more mature league.

    *bangs head against wall*


    His stats for a 16 year old would be out of this world and project towards a top line player. His age/size/league would say that it projects shorter. That's all I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    Exactly, which makes his stat line over inflated compared to a normal player in his league/in a more mature league.

    *bangs head against wall*


    His stats for a 16 year old would be out of this world and project towards a top line player. His age/size/league would say that it projects shorter. That's all I'm saying.
    Except it isn't when you're comparing him to his peers. No one is comparing Ronning's production to a 16-year-old phenom scoring 50+ goals. However, when you look deeper at Ronning's situation and his advanced statistics, you see someone who can overcome the issue that has befallen the likes of Michael St. Croix and the other small players to come out of the WHL.

    No one disagrees with your actual assessment. The issue with your assessment is that it's vague and inaccurate without any additional substance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Except it isn't when you're comparing him to his peers. No one is comparing Ronning's production to a 16-year-old phenom scoring 50+ goals. However, when you look deeper at Ronning's situation and his advanced statistics, you see someone who can overcome the issue that has befallen the likes of Michael St. Croix and the other small players to come out of the WHL.

    No one disagrees with your actual assessment. The issue with your assessment is that it's vague and inaccurate without any additional substance.
    but he's compatible to his peers as his peers in his league aren't his peers due to age *bangs head against wall* this is the inflation which you've taken up an issue with.
    I've seen people say he could be a top 6 forward. I simply said he likely won't be due to size / inflated numbers vs (lesser) peers and projects to bottom six despite good numbers. Simple. Why you take issue, who knows.
    But you're right. /end

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    but he's compatible to his peers as his peers in his league aren't his peers due to age *bangs head against wall* this is the inflation which you've taken up an issue with.
    But you're right. /end
    I'm not looking for you to tell me I'm right when just beforehand you're also implying I'm not grasping a concept.

    You literally described two different scenarios in which he was either younger or playing a different league. You're moving the goal posts. We don't know how he'd perform in a nother league. Duh his scoring would be better a younger and if he was doing it somewhere else. The argument that I am making is to say his scoring as a 20-year-old in the WHL is average to good. It also happens to be pretty good scoring regardless of age in that league.

    His numbers are inflated relative to his production from last season. That's really the only time we can say his numbers are up. Why? He's older and he's improved his game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    I'm not looking for you to tell me I'm right when just beforehand you're also implying I'm not grasping a concept.

    You literally described two different scenarios in which he was either younger or playing a different league. You're moving the goal posts. We don't know how he'd perform in a nother league. Duh his scoring would be better a younger and if he was doing it somewhere else. The argument that I am making is to say his scoring as a 20-year-old in the WHL is average to good. It also happens to be pretty good scoring regardless of age in that league.

    His numbers are inflated relative to his production from last season. That's really the only time we can say his numbers are up. Why? He's older and he's improved his game.
    He's also older than his competition and / or more skilled than them along with being the same size.

    You're acting like I'm taking issue with what you're saying whereas it's the opposite, you're asking me to change my language due to being incorrect. I fail to see any point in which you've proven anything but my point.

    I stand by my original post of:

    Bottom six f in the NHL. His numbers are inflated. We'll see what he does in the A.
    Last edited by torontonyr; 03-06-2018 at 04:59 PM.

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    Inflated would be if he was playing on a line with a dominant set up man like Heponiemi. Then you'd wonder if he actually improved as a player or if his numbers were inflated due to playing alongside one of the elite players in his league. His increase in scoring his his own doing and not inflated by the players surrounding him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    He's also older than his competition and / or more skilled than them along with being the same size.

    You're acting like I'm taking issue with what you're saying whereas it's the opposite, you're asking me to change my language due to being incorrect. I fail to see any point in which you've proven anything but my point.

    I stand by my original post of:

    Bottom six f in the NHL. His numbers are inflated. We'll see what he does in the A.
    I think the word "inflated" is what is throwing people off, not the point you are making.

    I mean, he's an over-ager, playing against 16 year olds.

    My god, that's anywhere from a 2 to 4-level gap. Imagine playing down 2 levels when you were growing up playing hockey. I would have been putting up more than 50 a season
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    I agree with both the above. I just think inflated also can be related to the 2-4 level gap as much as it can relate to direct inflation due to linemates.

    If that's the entire argument then I think it's sort of petty, overall. That's all. I have high hopes for the kid but the way I see it, he has a lot to prove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think the word "inflated" is what is throwing people off, not the point you are making.

    I mean, he's an over-ager, playing against 16 year olds.

    My god, that's anywhere from a 2 to 4-level gap. Imagine playing down 2 levels when you were growing up playing hockey. I would have been putting up more than 50 a season
    That's not entirely true. Yes he is an over ager, but (with out looking) most teams probably have an over ager or two. In addition, most of the other players are 17, 18, or 19. Most of the 16 year olds don't see meaning full minutes.

    Moose Jaw is the best team in the WHL. The have 2 players with 113 points. One turned 21 in January the other turns 21 in 2 weeks. They have another over ager turning 21 in May who has 74 points. They have 5 other forwards, 4 D, and their starting goalie that are all born in 1998 and turn 20 this year. The have 10 skaters 6'2" or taller and 195 lbs or more. I'm not gonna go through every team, but he's not playing in a league of 16 year olds who are all the same size as him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think the word "inflated" is what is throwing people off, not the point you are making.

    I mean, he's an over-ager, playing against 16 year olds.

    My god, that's anywhere from a 2 to 4-level gap. Imagine playing down 2 levels when you were growing up playing hockey. I would have been putting up more than 50 a season
    50 what? PIMS?

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    Bitches. 50 bitches.
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    #60 last night.

    But, for perspective, Tyler Steenbergen is a year younger, played on the WJC team, and is scoring at even a better pace and I'd doubt he plays more than 10 games in the NHL.

    It's too bad the Pack aren't going to the playoffs, but could he go to Greenville?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    #60 last night.

    But, for perspective, Tyler Steenbergen is a year younger, played on the WJC team, and is scoring at even a better pace and I'd doubt he plays more than 10 games in the NHL.

    It's too bad the Pack aren't going to the playoffs, but could he go to Greenville?
    Come on dude. I know Ronning is still a long shot to be a difference marker in the NHL, but you're selling him waaaaaay short here.

    - Ronning is about 2 and a half months older

    - Steenbergen plays with Heponiemi, who has 90 assists in 55 games, and another over ager that has 124 points in 66 games. I don't know their line combos, but at the least there are other players on his team for the opponent to worry about. Where as Ronning has no one on his team with more than 70 points or 46 assists.

    - Ronning actually scores at a better pace. .87 vs .85 gpg.

    How many goals do you think Ronning would have playing on Heponiemi's wing?

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    And Greenville is worse than the Pack...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Saying college is more skilled than the CHL isn't quite right. I do not at all like the CHL, or even the WHL as a developmental league, but NCAA competition is entirely relative to your conference. Otherwise you'd see guys from Robert Morris signing NHL deals every year.

    The reason why I argue the word inflated is that it implies that they're grossly misvaluing him. They're not. This is the production you'd want from someone who's remotely good at his age.
    1 in 3 NHL players come from the NCAA.
    The skill and competition is much higher than the CHL, itís men vs boys essentially.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    And Greenville is worse than the Pack...
    OK, I could have checked, so no playoffs there either

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