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Thread: 2016 Presidential Election: General Discussion

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    I don't think he's talking about what cops do collectively in that quote. He's talking about blacks living in fear of what might happen to them based on several high profile incidents. A parallel would be a politician saying "We want a nation where women don't have to worry about being sexually assaulted when they walk down the street." and then you taking that to mean the person is implying all men are rapists.
    But we now know, thanks to militant feminism, all men are indeed rapists.

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    Niko,
    Do you not agree with Bernies statement?

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    The only people who should fear law enforcement are criminals. I would never say that any single race, creed, gender, etc. has something to worry about more than others. That would say that I feel guys in my field are not doing their job properly. And having the life experience that I do in this profession (from guys I've met in the field over the years), I don't believe to be the case.

    Again, I've never seen or heard of any cop I've come in contact with over the years stopping, frisking, summonsing, arresting, etc. anyone for a reason other than legitimate reasonable suspicion of probable cause. So no, I don't think any single sect of person should ever walk down the street with that fear.

    That's not to say that there haven't been bad cops, like Michael Dowd. But show me ANY field that's never had a bad person. I'm sure we've all known doctors, lawyers and programmers that were shifty people too. And those people should be dealt with accordingly.

    But don't paint the whole profession in that light for the purpose of campaigning and pandering votes. It doesn't sit well with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    "We want a nation where a young black man or woman can walk down the street not worrying about being falsely arrested, beaten or killed"

    How does that say anything else? lol

    So these people have to worry about this because it happens everyday? Is this common place/a daily occurrence in the United States? Have I missed a memo about people I should be falsely arresting, beating or killing for walking down the street? I mean, who else arrests people? Garbage men? Fry cooks? Clearly, it's directed at law enforcement. I'm a fairy active cop, I have done none of those things over my career. Should black men and women fear me when they walk down the street because of incidents that happened elsewhere that have nothing to do with them or me? Isn't that a generalization?
    Meaning more than white people, probably.

    It's pretty paranoid of you to translate that into cops are going out of their way to kill people.

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    No ones painting your whole profession in one swipe, far from it. And Sander's emphasized that point time and time again.

    Separate yourself from the equation, your experience and exposure to law enforcement represents approx .001 %. A respected point of view, but you can't speak for other law enforcement.

    Post 9-11 there has been a substantial increase of police brutality in this country. Statistics are there, it's a issue that needs to be addressed

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    This is one of those sore subjects for me to discuss as I can never really make properly convey my point. I can never make you have my life experiences or give you the insight/opinions I've gained after logging thousands and thousands of hours of police work . I'll just say that I respectfully disagree and won't hijack the thread any further with this, as there is already a police thread on the forum.

    My original point still stands. I don't really like any of the candidates in this election and I'm hard pressed to find anyone that truly does support one of them 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post

    That's not to say that there haven't been bad cops, like Michael Dowd. But show me ANY field that's never had a bad person. I'm sure we've all known doctors, lawyers and programmers that were shifty people too. And those people should be dealt with accordingly.

    But don't paint the whole profession in that light for the purpose of campaigning and pandering votes. It doesn't sit well with me.
    Do you think the bad ones should be held accountable for their actions? Because that seems reasonable to me, and it's the core of Sanders' message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McDougalfaschnitzer View Post
    Do you think the bad ones should be held accountable for their actions? Because that seems reasonable to me, and it's the core of Sanders' message.
    Of course. But the cop in South Carolina and Michael Dowd are the exception. Michael Dowd deserved every bit of what he got. The cop in South Carolina a few months back was dead wrong and deserves to be prosecuted.

    Darren Wilson and Daniel Pantaleo were doing their job.

    The BLM movement puts them all in the same boat. And I've had protesters yell at me that Zimmerman is a crooked cop lol.

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    So Sanders is the BLM candidate now?

    Last I remember BLM protesters were interrupting his rallies because he wouldnt say he supports reparations and such.
    ___________LETS GO RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
    So Sanders is the BLM candidate now?

    Last I remember BLM protesters were interrupting his rallies because he wouldnt say he supports reparations and such.
    He would be the closest thing to it wouldn't he? That movement seems to have lost a lot of momentum devouring itself though.

    BTW, the video of that incident is something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentosman42 View Post
    So Sanders is the BLM candidate now?

    Last I remember BLM protesters were interrupting his rallies because he wouldnt say he supports reparations and such.
    They interrupted a couple early on not in relation to reparations but about institutional racism, but that incident caused more politicians to acknowledge and speak about racial issues (including Sanders who at the time was only focused on income inequality) so I think they succeeded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    He would be the closest thing to it wouldn't he? That movement seems to have lost a lot of momentum devouring itself though.

    BTW, the video of that incident is something else.
    The coverage of the BLM movement has waned in the mainstream media because there haven't been any hot button issues the news salivates over. The actual organization of the movement seems to be evolving. I've seen representatives for them on the Colbert and Noah's shows and they not only held their own, they eloquently presented a powerful message on race relations.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    But we now know, thanks to militant feminism, all men are indeed rapists.
    Using the term "militant" is man-fear related. Some men don't like women to have strong opinions, specifically about the inequality between men and women. These are extreme feminists. They aren't blowing anything up, taking hostages or castrating any one. They are not militant, they are passionate. They take real issues and amplify them because the world is just too content to keep the status quo. It's the exact same thing as extreme views on institutional racism that we are discussing here.

    Those who don't suffer from the inequality don't want to listen to the actual issues, and so those effected basically have to stop talking at a reasonable level and scream their heads off. Because talking doesn't work when it comes to institutional sexism or racism.

    And now, your response would be, "yes, white men are the problem in this country" with a roll of your eyes. And you know what? You are absolutely right. White men (not all, but enough of us) are the problem when it comes to institutional sexism and racism. Because we bury our heads in the sand and pretend that just because we're not smacking a woman on the ass, calling her "sweet heart" and suggesting she go make us a sandwich or calling a black person "nigger", our hands are clean. They are not.

    So women complain about inequality in their daily lives. Blacks complain about inequality in their daily lives. White men's complaint? That they're targeted because they don't suffer from the same inequality. Are you fucking serious? That's like rich people complaining that poor people don't like them simply because they've claimed all the wealth for themselves. No shit.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Using the term "militant" is man-fear related. Some men don't like women to have strong opinions, specifically about the inequality between men and women. These are extreme feminists. They aren't blowing anything up, taking hostages or castrating any one. They are not militant, they are passionate. They take real issues and amplify them because the world is just too content to keep the status quo. It's the exact same thing as extreme views on institutional racism that we are discussing here.

    Those who don't suffer from the inequality don't want to listen to the actual issues, and so those effected basically have to stop talking at a reasonable level and scream their heads off. Because talking doesn't work when it comes to institutional sexism or racism.

    And now, your response would be, "yes, white men are the problem in this country" with a roll of your eyes. And you know what? You are absolutely right. White men (not all, but enough of us) are the problem when it comes to institutional sexism and racism. Because we bury our heads in the sand and pretend that just because we're not smacking a woman on the ass, calling her "sweet heart" and suggesting she go make us a sandwich or calling a black person "nigger", our hands are clean. They are not.

    So women complain about inequality in their daily lives. Blacks complain about inequality in their daily lives. White men's complaint? That they're targeted because they don't suffer from the same inequality. Are you fucking serious? That's like rich people complaining that poor people don't like them simply because they've claimed all the wealth for themselves. No shit.
    Go check out what I posted in the political thread. Didn't want to hijack this one.

    I agree with what you said here. Except one thing.

    Because we bury our heads in the sand and pretend that just because we're not smacking a woman on the ass, calling her "sweet heart" and suggesting she go make us a sandwich or calling a black person "nigger", our hands are clean. They are not.
    Actually, mine are. I don't pretend to be oblivious of issues other races and genders face, even though I might not agree with the narrative. For example, do I think changing the name of the Redskins will do anything to help the plight of the native American today? No. But if they think it will, go ahead.

    I don't judge anyone based on a demographic and I don't want to be judged based on one, either.

    Saying "the middle class straight white male is THIS" is just as bad as saying the poor black guy is THAT.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Go check out what I posted in the political thread. Didn't want to hijack this one.

    I agree with what you said here. Except one thing.



    Actually, mine are. I don't pretend to be oblivious of issues other races and genders face, even though I might not agree with the narrative. For example, do I think changing the name of the Redskins will do anything to help the plight of the native American today? No. But if they think it will, go ahead.

    I don't judge anyone based on a demographic and I don't want to be judged based on one, either.

    Saying "the middle class straight white male is THIS" is just as bad as saying the poor black guy is THAT.
    Just read it in the other thread and commented. Way better than what I wrote.

    As to your issue with that line, the sentence before I clarified with "(not all, but enough of us)". I do not believe that every white man in the world silently supports institutional oppression. But clearly a large enough percentage do or else it wouldn't be a thing.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Just read it in the other thread and commented. Way better than what I wrote.

    As to your issue with that line, the sentence before I clarified with "(not all, but enough of us)". I do not believe that every white man in the world silently supports institutional oppression. But clearly a large enough percentage do or else it wouldn't be a thing.
    Granted, fair enough.

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    Im not trying to be biased here because I am a cop, but Niko is right here. You never hear any politician saying that not all cops are bad, and a majority aren't. It's never he was a bad cop and not all are like him. Its always the cops did this, they do that. Fact is, its a very small minority of cops that do this. Look at the sheer number of cops across the country. If cops were as bad as they made it sound, you would have a lot more incidents happening everyday. These politicians jump on any police shooting if its a white cop and a black suspect simply because of race, not the facts. Yes there are bad cops out there, and the bad ones should be fired, locked up or whatever needs to happen to them. But I am getting tired of hearing "the so called good cops are just a bad as the bad cops because they don't turn in the bad cops". I consider myself a very good cop, and I haven't called out any bad cops because guess what, I haven't seen any cops do anything like that while I have been working. Its not a common thing, and this is what these politicians need to be telling people. They need to say that if your afraid of the cops, then you better be afraid to go to a doctor and have surgery because the fact is that there are far more people killed in hospitals by doctor/hospital staff screw ups every year than a cop killing an innocent person. Do cops kill innocent people, yes, it happens. Its not good, but its not as bad as the media and politicians make it out to be. NYC alone has over 30,000 cops, if it was so bad, wouldn't you have more complaints/issues? No one puts this into perspective for the public, they just build their fears.

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    Hasn't Sander's time and time again exactly what you just said no politician says??

    I'm not supporting Sanders, we are two far away on a few economic issues. Just wanted to clarify that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Hasn't Sander's time and time again exactly what you just said no politician says??

    I'm not supporting Sanders, we are two far away on a few economic issues. Just wanted to clarify that point.
    I was my understanding that Sanders was particular in highlighting his working with law enforcement and how there are many hard-working members of law enforcement that are trying to make a living in a tough environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    Im not trying to be biased here because I am a cop, but Niko is right here. You never hear any politician saying that not all cops are bad...
    All it takes is a quick Google search to figure out that this is just flat out false. As in... 100% untrue.

    ##

    He continued, “It is not acceptable to me that we have seen young black men walk down streets in this country be beaten and be killed unjustly — that is not acceptable. Most police officers — and I was a mayor for eight years — and I worked with police officers, it’s a tough job but most cops do it well. But when a police officer breaks the law, that officer must be held accountable.”
    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/poli...ung-black-men/

    ##

    “Too often, law enforcement gets scapegoated for the broader failures of our society and criminal justice system,” Obama told police chiefs from around the US and the world. “I know that you do your jobs with distinction no matter the challenges you face. That’s part of wearing the badge.”
    http://nypost.com/2015/10/27/obama-s...-nypd-officer/

    ##

    So, please stop. Please.

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