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Thread: Lundqvist: 'I've questioned why we're not more pissed off after a loss'

  1. #41
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    Nash just isn't a competitive or intense guy, from what I understand.

  2. #42
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    I think it's tough to make it to the show, and then be a top tier player without being competitive or having intensity.
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  3. #43
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    Plenty of guys don't have that extra gear or play with much emotion.

    Phil Kessel
    Bobby Ryan
    Markus Naslund
    Patrik Elias
    Michael Nylander

    Just off the top of my head are guys who looked the same after wins and losses. Even Leetch was pretty robotic.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Plenty of guys don't have that extra gear or play with much emotion.

    Phil Kessel
    Bobby Ryan
    Markus Naslund
    Patrik Elias
    Michael Nylander

    Just off the top of my head are guys who looked the same after wins and losses. Even Leetch was pretty robotic.
    Agree, but you don't have to wear your emotion on your sleeve to have intensity. Not everyone is rah rah like that.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Agree, but you don't have to wear your emotion on your sleeve to have intensity. Not everyone is rah rah like that.
    Right, but I think I've seen enough of Nash by now to realize that he's just not an intense, competitive guy. Reference by the fact that he doesn't raise his game in the postseason.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Agree, but you don't have to wear your emotion on your sleeve to have intensity. Not everyone is rah rah like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Right, but I think I've seen enough of Nash by now to realize that he's just not an intense, competitive guy. Reference by the fact that he doesn't raise his game in the postseason.
    With this team it's sometimes hard to tell. I think we've got a few quasi-leetch personalities, quiet, even-tempered and/or even cerebral types. Guys whose feathers it is hard to ruffle. Thinking Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Nash, Fast, Yandle, Diaz

    Then guys who play with a bit more moderate aggression: Miller; Klein (returned from injury version) and almost put Fast in this group as he seems to have a quiet eager-to-get-out intensity that belies his quiet demeanor
    And then a few who dial that aggressive play up sometimes by nature, sometimes when the pressure's on: McDonagh, Zuccarello, Moore, Klein verso) (when he's healthy
    Some who play much more identifiable aggressive abandon, but are inconsistent, Kreider, Glass

    And some who, quite frankly, it may be too soon to judge how their future playoff intensity will shape up (or not as the case may be), like Hayes, and again Fast.

    I don't know enough about Stalberg, I hear about inconsistency. But he might bring more intensity. Etem -- again I don't know how much of a physical )in the hockey sense not the fighting sense) dimension to expect.

    But all in all it seems I wonder if we have enough folk willing to arrive in a suitably angry, fast and willing disposition to contest the open pucks with larger more ornery opponents. Does our team make up with their speed, skills, IQ and sticks what they collectively seems sometimes to lack in ultimate ferocity of whatever it takes to win a Conference or SCF battle-level?

    It's a tough, tough quandary for a Gm to figure out under the cap. All we can say is we've gotten real close in terms of skill, speed and goaltending, but a maybe a little beaten back on our heels by Tampa and Los Angeles -- why was that? Was there something lacking in the level of what I refer to as "ultimate ferocity of whatever it takes to win a Conference or SCF battle-level"?

    And to me that comes back to what Henrik was talking about — is not being pissed off enough when they lose [a Conference Final or a SC Final] emblematic of not having enough size, grit and courage to compete for the dangerous open puck battles.

    I think we're way way way post the point of talking about size in purely height and pounds, as this team — with it's high standing and aspirations has been looking for the final pieces to the puzzle. And that's hard, because it has meant forfeiting speed-plus (Hagelin) when it conflicted with the cap. But we've added Etem and Stalberg who could — if they can find it in them, make valuable contributions.

    As does nearly everyone, they walk a razor's edge — a key injury here or there and the prospects dim dramatically — but that's not something they can control, inasmuch as playing smart hockey is a prophylactic, whereas not enough aggression also loses the day.

    Luckily we have a wild card -- some younger more robust players with favorable skills and characteristics are still developing with upside — Hayes could be a beast, Fast could be a real threat, Etem ?; and maybe even Miller could add that all-round dimension on the wing that first line needs to give Huggy Bear some breathing room.

    Overall I think our balance shifted a little bit to the right in terms of competitiveness/ability to compete. Will it be enough for hank and the fans -- that may have to wait for next June to decide?.
    Last edited by Respecttheblue; 08-09-2015 at 12:29 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Some people are intensely competitive. Until last year, I would have classified MSL under that description.

    Nash? He simply isn't. That's not to say he doesn't care, because he does. But at the same time, his life doesn't depend on whether or not he wins. It's a bonus. He has the size, the skill and the hockey sense to put together pretty plays and equally impressive numbers, but he doesn't have that next gear or "killer instinct".

    If you look at his success, especially over the past year, it has come from using his assets in the right area of the ice. He doesn't need to will himself into becoming an elite goal scorer, it just happens when he does the right things. He's next to impossible to move, possess silky smooth hands, and has an above average NHL shot.

    Now with all of this said, it's clear that he's not as competitive as some of his peers, because he doesn't have to be to have success. Does this mean that he'll never gain that fire, or drive? Probably not, honestly. However, and this is a BIG however, something could develop as he nears the twilight of his career. Once people see the hourglass begin to empty, it can have dramatic effects to their psyche, and change their behavior. He could acknowledge his proximity to retirement, and gain a hunger that not even he has known before.

    Will it happen? It's unlikely, but it could. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    .
    ...
    ...
    ... Does this mean that he'll never gain that fire, or drive? Probably not, honestly. However, and this is a BIG however, something could develop as he nears the twilight of his career. Once people see the hourglass begin to empty, it can have dramatic effects to their psyche, and change their behavior. He could acknowledge his proximity to retirement, and gain a hunger that not even he has known before.

    Will it happen? It's unlikely, but it could. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.
    I'm kind of hoping for a bit of that.

    Last year he came out of the gate fast. Took some hard hits at a certain point in the season and that hell-for-leather momentum kinda fizzled.

    I'm hoping for a dose of what you're talking about, but I'm not holding my breath either. Past track record and the wild-card potential for concussions and injuries are against us. But there's still a chance he could put it all together -- hopefully if he does his teammates are on the same page mentally and physically.
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  9. #49
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    Some people just play for the money.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Some people just play for the money.
    I think he plays for the joy of it, and the money. Plus it is all he's the ally ever known. I don't think he plays to win, though it is fun to win.

  11. #51
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    Can't say I disagree with his comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Right, but I think I've seen enough of Nash by now to realize that he's just not an intense, competitive guy. Reference by the fact that he doesn't raise his game in the postseason.
    I think you could easily make the argument that when guys try to raise their game, they get tight and "grip it."

    See: Drury, Chris

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I think you could easily make the argument that when guys try to raise their game, they get tight and "grip it."

    See: Drury, Chris
    Uh, you mean Captain Clutch?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I think you could easily make the argument that when guys try to raise their game, they get tight and "grip it."

    See: Drury, Chris
    Sense. This makes none.







    And I won't even bother listing the dozens of goals he scored like this for the Avs and Sabres.
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    I'm talking about how his career ended. When he was so intense he couldn't hold the puck. Over his last two seasons - granted he had some health issues - 15 goals over 101 games and 1 goal in 11 playoff games. The guy pressed more than any player I can remember.

  16. #56
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    The guy was injured more than any player I can remember in recent years. Those injuries clearly illustrate the "why" to those stats lines. Because history clearly tells a very different story than the one you are trying to illustrate.

    He effectively played out his last remaining year or so with the Rangers on one leg. Held together with duct tape and house glue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The guy was injured more than any player I can remember in recent years. Those injuries clearly illustrate the "why" to those stats lines. Because history clearly tells a very different story than the one you are trying to illustrate.

    He effectively played out his last remaining year or so with the Rangers on one leg. Held together with duct tape and house glue.
    But head/neck issues couldn't possibly play a role in Rick Nash's playoff performance?

    My point is, there are a lot of reasons why guys struggle. Lack of intensity or focus doesn't have to be one of them.

    Not for nothing, Drury injured a finger to start his final season and then had no goals in 23 games before missing time with his knee injury. He was healthy in 09-10 and only scored 14. Yes, age caught up to him some, but he was gripping it all year.

  18. #58
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    Head/neck issues certainly played a role the first time around. He suffered two confirmed concussions in a calendar year, so sure, that's plausible. But it's been largely the same story year-to-year with him where the data actually indicates what our eyes have told us all along — he comes out of the gate like a bat out of hell already in third gear. By December, with everyone behind him still in first or second gear, he looks like he's going to lap the league in the race. But he never leaves third gear. He stays there the entire season, including the playoffs, because that's his pace. His only pace. His only gear. So when the end of the season comes and other guys are up to fourth and fifth, especially in the playoffs, he looks like he doesn't care, not because he doesn't, but because he only has one gear, so the appearance is he won't find another one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ba Ba Bluey View Post
    Well when this is your first line:

    Which one's the Michelin Man? He's actually one tough motherfucker.

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    Stepans and his preseason rolls..

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