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Thread: The Airing of Grievances: 2015 Edition

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    I won't put this in that thread, but i feel like it should be. I wasn't calling anyone a liar. I was pointing out it's incorrect. Maybe he doesnt' even realize he's wrong about it, but regardless of someone paying 150, 100, or 379, they should know the truth about what they are buying and it's legitimacy.
    So I just did a little googling and what I found is a bunch of discussion on this. Indo-Edge Reebok jerseys seem to be a legitimate thing that Reebok put out. They're NHL licensed jerseys. Made in Indonesia.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Well, im sorry. I wasn't exactly in a position yesterday to gather up 5-6 of my jerseys just to show him, especially considering i'm not exactly known as the cop bootlegger jersey guy. I've actually posted up pics of jerseys in the past for our 1st winter classic (i think it was here and after we migrated from hell to here) showing what some of the signs of an authentic jersey are.
    I said they are nowhere near authentic. It was one sentence. Making it out like a castrated the guy is a huge leap.
    When you're saying someone is being dishonest, the burden is on you to offer proof. And going back to the OP, he clearly says they're Indo-Edge Jerseys, which, as I've come to understand, are Officially NHL Licensed jerseys, put out by Reebok, made in Indonesia. I also understand there are some quality debates, but to say they're not authentic, unless you think these are knockoffs of the Indonesian made Reebok jerseys, is incorrect. Or am I missing something?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    When you're saying someone is being dishonest, the burden is on you to offer proof. And going back to the OP, he clearly says they're Indo-Edge Jerseys, which, as I've come to understand, are Officially NHL Licensed jerseys, put out by Reebok, made in Indonesia. I also understand there are some quality debates, but to say they're not authentic, unless you think these are knockoffs of the Indonesian made Reebok jerseys, is incorrect. Or am I missing something?
    The authentic jerseys, the ones worn by the players, sold as authentic NHL jerseys are made in Canada. As far as I understand, you won't see Rick Nash skating down the wing with a jersey stitched up in Indonesia. Just a quick google and here are some results
    http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1434701
    excerpt
    - The fight strap itself is extremely thin, and would likely tear apart if it were to be subjected to actual game use. Think of how much force an actual fight strap can withstand.

    - The attachment of the strap is white (not the color of the jersey, just always white) with jersey-colored stitching. The stitching itself looks like it was done by a blind man with muscle tremors. The twill of the attachment itself is also extremely thin.

    - The Reebok wordmark logo on the back of the neck isn't even sewn down. The $0.000004 it would take to stitch that down was apparently too much of an effort.

    - The material of the entire jersey is somewhere between 550 (old airknit replica) and 6100 (old airknit authentic). It's not the same, it's not better, it's just...different. And yes, it's worse.

    - It's the same price as an actual regular authentic would be.

    - It was advertised originally by Reebok as "on-ice authentic". It's not. No player has ever worn an Indo-Edge on the ice, because it wouldn't last the game. Players still wear Edge 1.0s; Martin Erat's gold Nashville jerseys actually had to be custom-made by hand since Reebok only made the 2.0 for the Predators post-switch.
    http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/...c-nhl-jerseys/
    exerpt
    I've read a lot of talk about what are called "Indo-Edge" jerseys by Reebok, and their inferior construction when compared to authentic Canadian made Reeboks. I'm still learning what's up, and am far from an expert, but here is what I seem to have found out so far.

    There are 3 types of "Edge" authentic jerseys. The first is Edge 1.0, which is the original moisture wicking material and tighter fit that almost all NHL players rejected for in-game use during the first season of the Edge system...From what I hear, these remained the go-to material for retail authentics. The second is the Edge 2.0, which is what is worn by almost all NHL players. Slightly looser fit, and the same airknit mesh that was worn on CCM/Koho sweaters of the previous generation. I've heard that these are being made available as retail as of the switch from the vector logo on the back to the Reebok wordmark logo on the back. The third is "Indo-Edge" which has never been worn by any NHL player in a game, doesn't have sewn on Reebok logos, and uses a mesh that is somewhere between airknit and the material from Reebok "premier" jerseys. Most people are unhappy with the Indo-Edge jerseys, made in Indonesia, as opposed to the 1.0 and 2.0 sweaters that were made in Canada.

    Take it for what it's worth.
    Last edited by Keirik; 02-23-2015 at 03:20 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    The authentic jerseys, the ones worn by the players, sold as authentic NHL jerseys are made in Canada. As far as I understand, you won't see Rick Nash skating down the wing with a jersey stitched up in Indonesia.
    Got you. I think the confusion here is over the word "authentic". I don't think he was using it in the way you're talking about. He meant it was an authentic NHL jersey that you could buy inside MSG or at the NHL Store. I see the debates going on and it seems these Indo-Edge jerseys are like $50 cheaper or something, but still officially licensed by the NHL. They aren't the same as bootleg jerseys that are not licensed. Is that all correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Really good post. I think this is something we need to figure out a way to improve. A new user posts something, and someone almost always welcomes them to the forum, but then they're in the battle. I'll use a wrestling analogy that's probably dated. It's the Royal Rumble (they still do that?) and a new guy heads to the ring with 15 other guys already there. They get in and rather than it being every man for themselves, there are already two groups there. If the guy doesn't immediately join a group AND FIT RIGHT IN, they're going to get attacked by multiple people.

    I don't think we have just one clique here. I think there are quite a few to different degrees with overlap, but they are still very much there. There is a mod clique based on our shared experience. There's a real world clique of guys that know each other off the forum. Then there are cliques based on subject matter. When discussing Hank, these X number of folks all feel similary and have been debating on him in a certain way for years. Same way there was with Callahan, Torts, Avery, MDZ, etc.

    It is no doubt overwhelming to someone who's either new or has lurked for a while and wants to dip their toe in. Chanced are pretty high that one or more of these cliques will chomp that toe right off.

    So how can we be better?
    That's a good question. It's one I have no answer for.

    I know I personally try to be as welcoming as I possibly can be to new users. I'll even go out of my way to respond to them in a GDT or otherwise, just so they don't feel what they are saying is being thrown into the grand canyon, never to be heard from again.

    I'm a pragmatist by nature, so I try to be as practical as I can be. There's definitely going to be an instance or two where a really poor argument, or original post (like from one of our recent, now-banned users) goes completely against every grain. Where that user is often breaking multiple rules, insulting people, etc. I can't be that accommodating with them, even though I still try to guide them by getting them to read the rules, etc.

    In some cases it works, but in a lot it just doesn't because the user coming in has no real intentions of changing. They just want to be a bull in a china shop and are essentially daring me to do something about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    That's a good question. It's one I have no answer for.

    I know I personally try to be as welcoming as I possibly can be to new users. I'll even go out of my way to respond to them in a GDT or otherwise, just so they don't feel what they are saying is being thrown into the grand canyon, never to be heard from again.
    I wonder if there is anything more we can do with a welcome area on the forum? I know we have the introduce yourself thread and there are tons of rules and regulations around. Not sure what else to do in that area that would help, but maybe like...I don't know. Something to make new people understand that while we're passionate and we have long standing debates they might find themselves in the middle of, people are welcomed to share their opinions. Not sure I'm stating that right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Got you. I think the confusion here is over the word "authentic". I don't think he was using it in the way you're talking about. He meant it was an authentic NHL jersey that you could buy inside MSG or at the NHL Store. I see the debates going on and it seems these Indo-Edge jerseys are like $50 cheaper or something, but still officially licensed by the NHL. They aren't the same as bootleg jerseys that are not licensed. Is that all correct?
    To be honest, that I don't know, but I've never seen the indo ones sold in stores here. I could be wrong. If it's something you only get from the internet then that will tell you all you need to know. There might have been a time where Reebok toyed with the idea but then changed back due to very poor reviews? All i was trying to do was say it wasn't authentic. I could see that the second i looked at the ebay listing.

    If we are going to talk about the other stuff with hazings that seems to sometimes happen and all that then I can understand the gripe. However, it also has to be looked at from the other side. If i walk into a party and I know only 1 or 2 people there, I may mingle, introduce, even engage, but I wouldn't want to be one of the loudest voices in the room at first. That has been happening lately. Some of those "loudest new voices" have also been sometimes egging things on or antagonizing things. It kind of goes both ways to be honest.

    It's one thing to say "I think player X would be a good addition to the team" (widely unpopular opinion). It's another thing to say "oh yeah? You think he's a bad addition? Well then guy, offer me up a better solution?"
    We've never been successful as a board to derail every thread like that and we've always tried to curb that. That's how things end up being a shit show.

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    maybe x amount of posts before you can create a thread....or x amount of posts where the only thread you can posts in the Rangers board is the game day...stuff like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    I wonder if there is anything more we can do with a welcome area on the forum? I know we have the introduce yourself thread and there are tons of rules and regulations around. Not sure what else to do in that area that would help, but maybe like...I don't know. Something to make new people understand that while we're passionate and we have long standing debates they might find themselves in the middle of, people are welcomed to share their opinions. Not sure I'm stating that right.
    Like within the OP of the Intro thread, you mean, or an entire section dedicated to welcome users?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    maybe x amount of posts before you can create a thread....or x amount of posts where the only thread you can posts in the Rangers board is the game day...stuff like that?
    We actually do have a limit on this, specifically to combat bots, not to discourage new users from posting.

    The second option isn't really do-able. There's no real way to implement that in vB that I can think of. I don't think it'd be helpful for new users either. What if you have someone join from Ireland, where the game is on at some crazy hour, you know?
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    Then how about there be an x amount of posts before the rest of us are allowed to respond to new posters

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Then how about there be an x amount of posts before the rest of us are allowed to respond to new posters


    Equally non-helpful. That goes back to the Grand Canyon analogy I just made.

    I mean, I even went so far as to include hazing rules for new members in the Rule Book. I just don't know what else I can actually do to combat this perception, because the perception is what's driving this reality, even though in a lot of cases it's not actually occurring.
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    you think you’'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

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  12. #52
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    I thought this board was more than welcoming enough when I joined over the summer...so there's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    I wonder if there is anything more we can do with a welcome area on the forum? I know we have the introduce yourself thread and there are tons of rules and regulations around. Not sure what else to do in that area that would help, but maybe like...I don't know. Something to make new people understand that while we're passionate and we have long standing debates they might find themselves in the middle of, people are welcomed to share their opinions. Not sure I'm stating that right.
    Can we send a PM to all new registrants that says exactly that?

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    Well, Phil sends a visitor message to every new member introducing himself, telling them to post in the "Introduce Yourself" thread, and a link to the rulebook.

    Perhaps a modification to that and a direct PM might be a better method?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post


    Equally non-helpful. That goes back to the Grand Canyon analogy I just made.

    I mean, I even went so far as to include hazing rules for new members in the Rule Book. I just don't know what else I can actually do to combat this perception, because the perception is what's driving this reality, even though in a lot of cases it's not actually occurring.
    I think the problem is that people come from places like HF Boards and don't understand that we're a bit more high-brow, and a little more is expected here, in terms of thoughts and behavior.

    I mean, I get what Jimmy is saying, but I don't actually agree with the idea of us fostering a friendly environment for people who want to debate but haven't really thought about their point for long enough to articulate what they think and why they think it.

    Maybe I shouldn't say that but it's how I feel haha.

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    Let's not forget that I highly doubt that most new people are new to internet message boards in the first place so it's hard to know when some of us are being too harsh or some need coddling, or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post

    Can we send a PM to all new registrants that says exactly that?
    A pm is a good idea. It makes it more likely they will see it.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Let's not forget that I highly doubt that most new people are new to internet message boards in the first place so it's hard to know when some of us are being too harsh or some need coddling, or whatever.
    Oh I think the oposite of coddling. I'm thinking more like "It may seem overwhelming when you make a small comment and three users explain in detail why they think you are wrong. This is just kind of the norm around here and shouldn't be taken personally. We just like we'll thought out debate here. " something like that. More of a heads up to the reality here.

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    If I got a PM when I joined saying "we have really well thought out debates," I would have immediately thought you were all ass holes lol

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    ^
    So yeah, the truth. lol

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