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Thread: [Proteau] St. Louis Made Mistake Leaving Lightning For Rangers

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    Post [Proteau] St. Louis Made Mistake Leaving Lightning For Rangers

    After watching Martin St-Louis play his former teammates in Tampa Bay for the first time since the March trade that sent him to the New York Rangers for Ryan Callahan, and two draft picks, I’m pretty confident in saying this:

    St-Louis made a huge mistake.

    Yes, it’s only one game, but the Lightning’s thorough 5-1 pounding of the Blueshirts Monday was a demonstration of (a) all the things that make Tampa such a favorite of pundits this off-season, and (b) many of the things that make some of us question the Rangers as a serious Stanley Cup contender.
    But it’s more than just the presence of Stamkos that makes St-Louis’ decision to leave Tampa Bay a regrettable one. The Rangers have had some serious injuries to deal with this season (including key cogs Derek Stepan and Ryan McDonagh), but even with those players in the lineup, the Lightning are deeper at forward and on defense and have more blossoming young talent (including Jonathan Drouin, Victor Hedman, Tyler Johnson and Nikita Kucherov, among others) than the Blueshirts. And with goalie Ben Bishop proving his superb 2013-14 campaign was no fluke, you can’t even argue the Rangers have a significant advantage in net anymore – at least, not when star Henrik Lundqvist is struggling to find his consistency so far this year.
    ... right now, the fact is St-Louis left a team that looks to be a force with which to reckon for many years to come for a team whose leading scorer, Rick Nash, will be 31 years old next summer and whose backbone between the pipes will be 33 in March. At 39 years old, he wants to win now, but does anyone see the Rangers as a serious threat to win the Eastern Conference again this year? At this stage, there’s no guarantee they’ll even be in the post-season.
    http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/wh...-huge-mistake/

    --

    I can't stand Proteau as a person, and I disagree with him on almost nearly every topic he writes on (especially his incessant soap-boxing about fighting in the NHL), but it's an interesting take, and something we've probably never thought about from the perspective of St. Louis, as opposed to who won or lost the trade, or if the price the Rangers paid was too high.

    If you're judging this today, whether that's fair or not, I find it hard to disagree with him based on the play of both clubs this season.
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    Mid-November doesnt strike me as the best time to write an article like this. Its not like we were playing at a barn-burning pace at this point last year (9-9 through 18). I'd revisit this like, next Summer, though.

    I mean MSL said he wanted to "win now" and came within 3 games of doing just that...and theres absolutely no guarantee yet the Lightning will come close to that this season
    Last edited by NYRangers92; 11-18-2014 at 08:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRangers92 View Post
    Mid-November doesnt strike me as the best time to write an article like this.
    It's Proteau, so the timing couldn't be more perfect, considering the source. Capitalizing on recent shocks is what he does best.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    A big part of St. Louis departure was a personal reason, which was never really cleared up. I don't think he necessarily left the Lightning thinking he had a better shot at a title here in New York.
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    Proteau is a moron.

    Sure, this can be revisited in a year or two, depending on how the Rangers, MSL, and Tampa do.

    But now?

    The Lightning impress me as much as the Islanders. First place in November!!! STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!!!

    The Lightning, as well as the Islanders have no clue what it takes to get to the SCF, let alone win. The Isles should try winning a playoff series since 1993, and the Lightning have a good roster on paper, but so did the San Jose Sharks the last 10 years. Two wildly unproven teams that the "pundits" will pop wood for until they choke.

    The Rangers made a mistake not re-signing Stralman, and thinking Dan Boyle had enough left offensively (or enough left, period) to make up for losing Stralman's defense + possession game. Dan Boyle sucks. He is done. We made a huge mistake choosing Boyle over Stralman.

    Even paying Stralman 5M for the next 5 years would've been better than D. Boyle at 4.5 for 2 years.

    Dan Boyle has nothing left in the tank, and it's November, and he's played...three games. You think this guy is going to help us through multiple grueling playoff rounds?


    That's the big mistake between these two teams. MSL was a few OT posts away from winning The Cup. To say he made a mistake because of one November loss to Tampa, and Tampa's hot start is absolutely laughable. Proteau belongs on HFBoards.


    The Rangers are the much more proven team. When McDonagh is healthy, we're as good as any team in the East over 7 games. We have some holes to fill / needs to address, because we messed up with D.Boyle/Stralman, and Brian Boyle; even Dorsett + Carcillo. Tanner Glass does nothing to help this team win games. I understand this supposed "role" carved out for him, but he's not even filling that. If you're carrying a guy who has ZERO offensive ability, and can't even control simple passes enough to keep a 4th-line cycle alive, you at least expect him to be an impact on every shift with hitting or something. He doesn't do this. Most shifts he can't even catch up to the play to make a hit. He'll make about one big hit per game. That's not enough. We're carrying dead space. We're basically playing every other team 11 forwards vs their 12. Say what you want about it being a fourth line spot, but it hurts us. It absolutely does. Carcillo / Dorsett "protected" guys just as much and could actually skate and play.

    However, I believe that we can address these needs by the deadline, and will again be EC contenders, while Tampa and NYI will be first or second-round exits at absolute best. They simply don't understand what it takes.

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    so what you're saying is a team that has guys on it that played in the Conference final in 2011 (Stamkos, Brewer, Hedman), guys on it that played for perennial playoff contenders for Detroit and Dallas and San Jose and New York and Philly (Filppula, Morrow, Nabokov, Callahan, Carle), multiple players who were just in the Final not even 6 months ago (Boyle, Stralman) dont understand what it takes?

    Not saying I think theyll go far, I just find the crux of your argument flawed when half the team has been deep in the playoffs before
    Last edited by NYRangers92; 11-18-2014 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRangers92 View Post
    Mid-November doesnt strike me as the best time to write an article like this. Its not like we were playing at a barn-burning pace at this point last year (9-9 through 18). I'd revisit this like, next Summer, though.

    I mean MSL said he wanted to "win now" and came within 3 games of doing just that...and theres absolutely no guarantee yet the Lightning will come close to that this season
    If you're not in a playoff spot by Thanksgiving, it's extremely hard ot get into one. You can't start every year like shit thinking that because you started last year like shit, it's OK.

    Frankly, I think it was a bigger mistake for us to trade for MSL (yes, in hindsight, which is the ONLY way trades can be measured). I'm not saying moving Cally was a mistake, but we added a guy who immediately played down to a 60 point level (and looks more and more like a product of his linemates and less like the little engine that could every day), and we forfeited picks to do it.

    If we win the Cup, we win the trade. We didn't win the Cup so right now, we're #Losing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    A big part of St. Louis departure was a personal reason, which was never really cleared up. I don't think he necessarily left the Lightning thinking he had a better shot at a title here in New York.
    How so? His family lives in CT, and he lived in Fla. It's as evident as it gets. Guy has a cup, and has exceeded everyone's expectations 10 fold. He went from "he'll never make it" to first ballot hof'er. Proteau is a moron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    How so? His family lives in CT, and he lived in Fla. It's as evident as it gets. Guy has a cup, and has exceeded everyone's expectations 10 fold. He went from "he'll never make it" to first ballot hof'er. Proteau is a moron.
    Why is he a moron? Article seems spot on to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Why is he a moron? Article seems spot on to me.
    Because St. Louis' request to come here wasn't solely about what his expectations were for the Rangers to win a cup, nor what Tampa's future would entail. He's making it seem like Marty ran out of Tampa because he didn't think they were going anywhere, and the Rangers were on the fast track to a cup. He's not chasing a title, he wants to be with his wife and 3 boys.
    Last edited by Mike; 11-18-2014 at 10:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Because St. Louis' request to come here wasn't solely about what his expectations were for the Rangers to win a cup, nor what Tampa's future would entail.
    Right. His request was because he took getting left off team Canada personally and never forgave Yzerman. He was essentially a crybaby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Right. His request was because he took getting left off team Canada personally and never forgave Yzerman. He was essentially a crybaby.
    He was upset about it. That's not the reason why he wanted to come here.
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    We're becoming the Phillies of hockey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    He was upset about it. That's not the reason why he wanted to come here.
    He wanted out of TB and this was a convenient destination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    He wanted out of TB and this was a convenient destination.
    He wanted to leave the year before.
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    If we wallop the Bolts in STL in two weeks, will he write the converse article about how Ryan Callahan should have signed here when he had the chance?

    Kneejerk reaction to a mid-November game. Classic yellow journalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bretzky View Post
    Proteau is a moron.

    Sure, this can be revisited in a year or two, depending on how the Rangers, MSL, and Tampa do.

    But now?

    The Lightning impress me as much as the Islanders. First place in November!!! STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!!!

    The Lightning, as well as the Islanders have no clue what it takes to get to the SCF, let alone win. The Isles should try winning a playoff series since 1993, and the Lightning have a good roster on paper, but so did the San Jose Sharks the last 10 years. Two wildly unproven teams that the "pundits" will pop wood for until they choke.

    The Rangers made a mistake not re-signing Stralman, and thinking Dan Boyle had enough left offensively (or enough left, period) to make up for losing Stralman's defense + possession game. Dan Boyle sucks. He is done. We made a huge mistake choosing Boyle over Stralman.

    Even paying Stralman 5M for the next 5 years would've been better than D. Boyle at 4.5 for 2 years.

    Dan Boyle has nothing left in the tank, and it's November, and he's played...three games. You think this guy is going to help us through multiple grueling playoff rounds?


    That's the big mistake between these two teams. MSL was a few OT posts away from winning The Cup. To say he made a mistake because of one November loss to Tampa, and Tampa's hot start is absolutely laughable. Proteau belongs on HFBoards.


    The Rangers are the much more proven team. When McDonagh is healthy, we're as good as any team in the East over 7 games. We have some holes to fill / needs to address, because we messed up with D.Boyle/Stralman, and Brian Boyle; even Dorsett + Carcillo. Tanner Glass does nothing to help this team win games. I understand this supposed "role" carved out for him, but he's not even filling that. If you're carrying a guy who has ZERO offensive ability, and can't even control simple passes enough to keep a 4th-line cycle alive, you at least expect him to be an impact on every shift with hitting or something. He doesn't do this. Most shifts he can't even catch up to the play to make a hit. He'll make about one big hit per game. That's not enough. We're carrying dead space. We're basically playing every other team 11 forwards vs their 12. Say what you want about it being a fourth line spot, but it hurts us. It absolutely does. Carcillo / Dorsett "protected" guys just as much and could actually skate and play.

    However, I believe that we can address these needs by the deadline, and will again be EC contenders, while Tampa and NYI will be first or second-round exits at absolute best. They simply don't understand what it takes.
    Small sample and all that. But Stralman, what ever the cap hit, looked like the puck-moving offensive-minded D guy the Rangers signed Boyle to be. And Boyle looks every day of his 37 years.

    But again it doesn't preclude getting it right. The Rangers are .500 despite playing like total crap spare the Pens game last week.

    At a loss how MSL is the bad guy for being pissed his Gm did not respect him and wanting to sleep in his own with his wife and kids in Connecticut. And how Callahan is a great hero for taking less money from the bolts he could've had in March from the Rangers. Callahan is a good player, but he is not nearly the talent MSL is and soon he will again be hurt like he always is.

    As an aside, a loss why sportswriters never question salary caps.If media had drafts and salary caps for talent suspect they would feel quite differently. Instead they cheer for the owners to get more the players to get less. Not the players ' fault the NHL expanded to Phoenix. "Cost certainty" was a lie.
    Last edited by Bugg; 11-18-2014 at 11:37 PM.

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    I think most of you are missing the point. This article, as I noted in the OP, isn't about our take on the trade, or our take on MSL as a person, or anything of the sort. It's about Marty's choice to leave, and whether or not it was actually a good one or not.

    That, about the article itself, is what makes it so compelling.
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    If the primary reason he wanted out of Tampa Bay was to live closer to his family then he made the right decision.

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    I dont have any doubt that St.Louis thinks he made the wrong decision. I respect the idea of the article. However instead of it being a rational discussion, it appears to be another reaction to losing the game. With the "At this stage, there’s no guarantee they’ll even be in the post-season." Give me a freaking break!

    He's talking like we're in last place of the conference and cant buy a win. Consistency is the problem thus far. With Boyle, Step, McD going down. It doesn't surprise me that we aren't. Maybe its because I'm a fan, but I don't see how this team can't compete for the EC Championship again. Especially for the next two years of St.Louis's contract.

    To make it seem like we don't have young guys playing well (Step, Hags, Kreider) is also a joke. Sure TB has lined themselves in a great position for the next few years. But I think its a little bit of an over reaction. He makes it seem like NYR is a sinking ship.

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