Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 49 of 49

Thread: Real Time w/ Bill Maher: Ben Affleck, Sam Harris and Bill Maher Debate Radical Islam

  1. #41
    I feel sorry for the earth's population BSBH Prospect
    AmericanJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19,464
    Rep Power
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    To me, that's splitting hairs though. The word "lacking" can mean "in short supply". That's the qualifier you're looking for.

    I'd get your argument if he said:
    Well, I am splitting hairs here because this comes from someone calling others to action and on a topic where care should be taken. It obviously came across to Afleck a certain way. And it's no mistake that he has Afleck there and not a Muslim Scholar.

  2. #42
    Former Moderator BSBH Legend
    Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    74,851
    Rep Power
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Well, I am splitting hairs here because this comes from someone calling others to action and on a topic where care should be taken. It obviously came across to Afleck a certain way. And it's no mistake that he has Afleck there and not a Muslim Scholar.
    Well he didn't target Affleck. Affleck asserted himself without understanding the position (or even trying to, he was too busy trying to be bleeding heart), and asked the expert on the panel if he was an expert, and then spent more time thinking about what he wanted to say rather than listening to what was actually being said, so I don't feel bad for Affleck (who fancies himself a political mind).


  3. #43
    I feel sorry for the earth's population BSBH Prospect
    AmericanJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19,464
    Rep Power
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    But the insinuation is still there with the qualifier of "most". It's implied he's not actually condemning every Islamic person on the planet — just those who harbor these bad ideas, which just so happen to make up the majority of the faith (Jihadists, Islamists). Moderates are the minority in most regions.
    Yes, he later qualified it with most. But again, that would indicate more than 800 Million Muslims. And I don't know how accurate that is. Many is the qualifier to use here. Or even "Too Many". We talk about this concept too, when you're debating, you're not just responsible for what you say, but for what others hear.

    Afleck clearly heard Maher say, "Muslims are lacking when it comes to the treatment of women, gays and those who believe differently from them". And that's a sweeping generalization that could certainly be both offensive and untrue to many Muslims. Maybe even to most.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Niko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Crooklyn
    Posts
    4,205
    Rep Power
    51
    Also, while I agree that gross misinformation like this is wrong, because it's based off of gross misinterpretation or lies: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/0...ith-militants/

    it's hard to hold people in negative light considering articles like this are more and more common every day:
    http://www.hngn.com/articles/40538/2...state-poll.htm
    Couple that with the abundance of youtube videos, news articles and news videos popping up about American Muslims abroad throwing support and/or sympathy behind extremists, it's troubling to say the least.

  5. #45
    I feel sorry for the earth's population BSBH Prospect
    AmericanJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    19,464
    Rep Power
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well he didn't target Affleck. Affleck asserted himself without understanding the position, and asked the expert on the panel if he was an expert, and then spent more time thinking about what he wanted to say rather than listening to what was actually being said, so I don't feel bad for Affleck.

    I don't feel bad for Affleck, either. And he was being a tool questioning someone's expertise. If the guy wasn't an expert, then Affleck should have been able to dispel his argument. I agree with what you're saying.

    But the misunderstanding, imo, came because Maher, who's show it is and who no doubt had carefully prepared what he was going to say here, chose to use an inflammatory version of his statement. He got the exact reaction he wanted, because this was the premise of his point. That you can't discuss Muslim behavior without being called an Islamaphobe.

    But it was smoke and mirrors, because of the words he chose to use. Had he been more careful and gotten the same reaction, then he'd have had a point. And he might still have a point. But we won't know from this exchange.

  6. #46
    Former Moderator BSBH Legend
    Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    74,851
    Rep Power
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    I don't feel bad for Affleck, either. And he was being a tool questioning someone's expertise. If the guy wasn't an expert, then Affleck should have been able to dispel his argument. I agree with what you're saying.

    But the misunderstanding, imo, came because Maher, who's show it is and who no doubt had carefully prepared what he was going to say here, chose to use an inflammatory version of his statement. He got the exact reaction he wanted, because this was the premise of his point. That you can't discuss Muslim behavior without being called an Islamaphobe.

    But it was smoke and mirrors, because of the words he chose to use. Had he been more careful and gotten the same reaction, then he'd have had a point. And he might still have a point. But we won't know from this exchange.
    Fair enough.

    Good job here by everyone.

  7. #47
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    82,189
    Rep Power
    366
    Harris and Maher finally got to finish their conversation, this time without the belligerent input of Batman.

    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
    you think you’'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

    - Christopher Hitchens

  8. #48
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Kevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    2,640
    Rep Power
    38
    Good interview which I almost stopped listening to after 1:45. His "War of Ideas" is 100% accurate in my opinion but I just don't think it's feasible in any of our lifetimes. The mountain is too big and the amount of people that would buy in are too few. He is also 100% right that this is a problem for moderate Muslims to combat but again, I think they eventually just get lost in the wash of the sea of fundamentalist Muslims.

  9. #49
    #MakePetrGreatAgain BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    82,189
    Rep Power
    366
    Some of the largest tsunamis started as small ripples.

    It has to begin somewhere. If the new Left would stop demonizing actual reformers like Maajid Nawaz, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, and Sarah Haider and instead prop them up instead of their regressive, Islamist counterparts (here's lookin' at you Linda Sarsour), the mountain would crumble.
    Hidden Content

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "I've always said, I'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat."
    - Dean Lombardi


    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
    you think you’'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

    - Christopher Hitchens

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •