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Thread: The Eric Garner Discussion Thread

  1. #41
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    Just watched video, what is the HELL where the officers and EMS thinking/doing after he was cuffed?
    They did little to nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Just watched video, what is the HELL where the officers and EMS thinking/doing after he was cuffed?
    They did little to nothing.
    That's the other part that no one is focusing on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's the other part that no one is focusing on.
    Just saw video.
    I have to go through 2-3 days of CPR/1st Aide situational response each year.
    Even a simpleton such as myself understand the basics of ABC's and response.

    I'm simply speechless.....first at the officers, but the lack of response from the EMT's (I believe called EMS there)....floored me.

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    The more I watch the video, the more I have trouble with the "resisting" stuff...Cop tries to grab him, he tells the cop not to touch him, but the whole time his hands are in the air...Are the cops really going to say they thought they were in danger?

    On top of that, the other smoke screen is the illegal cigarettes. They keep saying in the video he broke up a fight and that's why the cops are there.

    Is there some additional information that says they were there for illegal cigarettes and not for breaking up the fight? Because it doesn't look that way in the video.

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    Did read right now, that the Choke Hold is not allowed per that police dept.
    And had been that way for 20 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Did read right now, that the Choke Hold is not allowed per that police dept.
    And had been that way for 20 years.
    Some cops are saying it wasn't a choke hold, but Bratton said it was.

    In the nearly three weeks since, the mayor and Police Commissioner William Bratton said the tactic looked like a chokehold, the use of which the NYPD has prohibited since 1993.
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/pba-u...cal-1407253302

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    Yeah, the EMT was a joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Cops are held to a higher standard because they are cops. Goes with the territory. They are subject to the rule of law like anyone else.
    This is what it winds down to for me as well. If I accidentally kill someone, chances are cops are still coming to get me and I get punished. That makes it feel wrong that if a cop kills someone accidentally, he just walks away and we are in the wrong for asking the same clarification of the incident that they'd ask us for. Especially given the role they are supposed to play in our society and the rights we willfully give to them, while refraining from them ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    This is what it winds down to for me as well. If I accidentally kill someone, chances are cops are still coming to get me and I get punished. That makes it feel wrong that if a cop kills someone accidentally, he just walks away and we are in the wrong for asking the same clarification of the incident that they'd ask us for. Especially given the role they are supposed to play in our society and the rights we willfully give to them, while refraining from them ourselves.
    I think there should be a thorough investigation into the Garner situation. If it's determined the officer didn't do anything wrong, then go on your way. If he did act recklessly, then there should be consequences. Either criminal or civil, the law can decide.

    To say he should just be re-assigned and we should all forget about it is absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    This is what it winds down to for me as well. If I accidentally kill someone, chances are cops are still coming to get me and I get punished. That makes it feel wrong that if a cop kills someone accidentally, he just walks away and we are in the wrong for asking the same clarification of the incident that they'd ask us for. Especially given the role they are supposed to play in our society and the rights we willfully give to them, while refraining from them ourselves.
    If a cop kills someone doing a duty you cannot or choose not to do. That's the difference. If you kill someone installing an air conditioner because it fell on someone's head due to your negligence or whatever is TOTALLY different than a guy trying to arrest a man of that size who won't willingly go. The job, from the chief banks to the guy in the bodega that called 911 to get rid of Eric Garner from in front of his store. The cop was there as a rank and file guy in the anti crime unit responding to a call and effecting an arrest. Had this not been his job and he been called there to do this job, he'd have been on his couch watching the little league World Series like every one else.

    You can't compare the situations, Jules

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I think there should be a thorough investigation into the Garner situation. If it's determined the officer didn't do anything wrong, then go on your way. If he did act recklessly, then there should be consequences. Either criminal or civil, the law can decide.

    To say he should just be re-assigned and we should all forget about it is absurd.
    I agree. It's the same thing the Roman Catholic Church did with pedophile priests. Complaints of rape and abuse? Move him to another parish.

    It's sweeping the problem under a different rug, not actually addressing and/or fixing it.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    If a cop kills someone doing a duty you cannot or choose not to do. That's the difference. If you kill someone installing an air conditioner because it fell on someone's head due to your negligence or whatever is TOTALLY different than a guy trying to arrest a man of that size who won't willingly go. The job, from the chief banks to the guy in the bodega that called 911 to get rid of Eric Garner from in front of his store. The cop was there as a rank and file guy in the anti crime unit responding to a call and effecting an arrest. Had this not been his job and he been called there to do this job, he'd have been on his couch watching the little league World Series like every one else.

    You can't compare the situations, Jules
    I understand that the situations aren't the same, but the premise is very similar. I'm not (yet) convinced that the officer in the Garner situation had no other option but to keep him in the prohibited (!) chokehold until the guy passed away from the lack of oxygen. I understand it's his job to be there, whether he wants to be in that exact situation or not, but there are many ways to resolve it and if this one ended with the death of the suspect and because of the use of a prohibited type of action, than I don't see how that doesn't warrant thorough investigation and potential punishment.
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  13. #53
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    Why is there a discrepancy in the reason cops approached Garner?

    Eric Garner, 43, died while police officers tried to arrest him (cops claim he was selling untaxed cigarettes while witnesses say he was just breaking up a fight)
    http://gothamist.com/2014/08/19/stat...and_jury_i.php

    Oh, and the officer didn't have a clean record.

    The NYPD officer caught on video putting a Staten Island man in a chokehold moments before he died has been sued twice for alleged civil rights violations, costing taxpayers $30,000 in settlement money (so far). Officer Daniel Pantaleo, an eight-year veteran of the NYPD, allegedly subjected two men to "a humiliating and unlawful strip search" on a Staten Island street, where they were forced to "pull their pants and underwear down, squat and cough."

    That lawsuit was settled in January for $30,000. The plaintiffs alleged that Pantaleo and other officers "unlawfully stopped" them as the drove in a car through Staten Island. According to the lawsuit, Pantaleo falsely claimed that he saw crack and heroin in the backseat of the car—everyone in the vehicle was arrested, but the charges were subsequently dismissed.

    The Staten Island Advance reports that a second lawsuit, which is still winding its way though the courts, accuses Pantaleo and other officers of misrepresenting facts in a police report to substantiate charges that were eventually dismissed. The plaintiff, Rylawn Walker, alleges that Pantaleo arrested him last February for marijuana-related charges, even though he was "committing no crime at that time and was not acting in a suspicious manner."
    http://gothamist.com/2014/07/21/cop_...n_chokehol.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Why is there a discrepancy in the reason cops approached Garner?


    http://gothamist.com/2014/08/19/stat...and_jury_i.php

    Oh, and the officer didn't have a clean record.


    http://gothamist.com/2014/07/21/cop_...n_chokehol.php

    Pete, I say this as respectfully as I possibly can only because I'd to this for a living, but you honestly have no idea how this works. The guys is in by unit that primarily only focuses on guns and drugs. Making people squat and cough is standard procedure for a cavity search when you believe they're hiding drugs. I've seen/heard of guys hiding knives and guns in their anal cavities. No joke man, with out exaggeration. That type of search is done fairly commonly when drugs are involved depending on the arrest. It's not humiliating for that kind of search when you're already arrested on drug possession and the officer has reasonable belief that there is more narcotics on your person.

    And the city settles law suits all the time. They always settle and I recommend any one and everyone sue the nypd bc the city of NY would rather settle then see the case go to trial, regardless of The situation. My buddy had to subdue and arrest a guy beating who was beating his gf while high on Molly. The dude broke his own hand punching anything and everything in sight before getting cuffed and sued my friend and the department for his injury, the broken. The city settled. It's absurd. You can't go by that.


    The guy is "accused" (not convicted) by the plaintiff of wrong doing because the plaintiff says he wasn't doing anything wrong. Show me a defendant that admits he's wrong and claim innocence. I don't know this cop personally and I don't think that all cops are always right, because I know some morons on this job or guys that I wouldn't work with daily bc they're sketchy. But that's not the norm and I'll always give the cop the benefit of the doubt over a perp until there's tangible proof stating the cop was wrong.

    What does a cop have to gain by going out of his way to frame someone or make some shit up? He can only get fucked. The perp has everything to gain and nothing to lose by making allegations against the cop and proclaiming his innocence.

  15. #55
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    Of course. It's totally out of the realm of possibility that he's just a bad egg. The city always just gives away money. People never really have a case. Ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Of course. It's totally out of the realm of possibility that he's just a bad egg. The city always just gives away money. People never really have a case. Ever.
    The guy has over 200 arrests. The fact that he hasn't been sued more and only has one pending case is astounding. Cops get sued constantly. And I've seen many, many, MANY frivolous law suits made against cops. I know of one where the cop was wrong and got jammed up. I go with what I know/see.

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    It's like when you're talking about hockey and you say "it's not about the stats on this page, it's what I see with my eyes".

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    The guy has over 200 arrests. The fact that he hasn't been sued more and only has one pending case is astounding. Cops get sued constantly. And I've seen many, many, MANY frivolous law suits made against cops. I know of one where the cop was wrong and got jammed up. I go with what I know/see.
    Your feelings are clear. You don't think the cop did anything wrong...yet Garner is dead.

    Meanwhile the commissioner said it looked like a chokehold and the ME said the cause of death was the chokehold.

    The fact is that the cop was sued twice for civil rights violations. You're saying that the city always settles, even when the cop didn't do ANYTHING wrong, which I don't believe and you can't prove.

    So what's left? I believe that you will never side against a cop, based on your replies in both threads. No matter what the evidence. So let's just agree to disagree, because I have no intention of beating a dead horse and debating with someone who's mind is made up, no matter the evidence.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    It's like when you're talking about hockey and you say "it's not about the stats on this page, it's what I see with my eyes".
    Except you're not watching every officer in the NYPD and I actually watch guys before saying that.

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    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...245751921.html


    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/the...ntry-1.1897263

    http://gothamist.com/2012/12/27/nypd...rical_hig.php#.


    People make frivolous law suits constantly. Not only a law suit, but complaints against cops. It's what people do when they're angry that they got locked up and/or want retribution on their arresting officer.

    Cops aren't always right. Sometimes they're dead wrong. But more often than not, they're not misusing or abusing power, violating rights or using excessive force. I see your point though. I've worked with 2 or 3 guys that were dumb and that I'd never want to have any interaction with my friends or family. I see your point in that regard, but my point is, you can't look at a pending law suit and automatically assume to cop is a dick who was wrong.

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