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    The Eric Garner Discussion Thread

    http://nypost.com/2014/08/20/a-cops-...-only-tragedy/

    Good article that makes valuable points. The way police are treated now makes me hesitant to do anything. You call me for a robbery, I take police action and now I'm risking everything I own, my job and possibly criminal charges? Fuck that. Good luck. Why should I do anything when doing so can only hurt me.

    I've been filmed a million times. I've never put my hands on someone unless I've had to. But the filmin never starts when I'm repeatedly asking the guy to step back or to calm down. It never even starts when the guy takes the first swing at me. But me and my partner or the group of cops trying to wrestle the guy to the ground is what makes YouTube.

    It's absurd. But when someone is under arrest and resists, what is the civilian answer to my response. When a guy like Eric Garner says "it ends today" and resists, should I just say "oh, okay. You're not under arrest anymore" and walk away?

    MOD NOTE: This discussion was moved from the Michael Brown Thread so as not to mingle the two cases when more information comes out in both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    http://nypost.com/2014/08/20/a-cops-...-only-tragedy/

    Good article that makes valuable points. The way police are treated now makes me hesitant to do anything. You call me for a robbery, I take police action and now I'm risking everything I own, my job and possibly criminal charges? Fuck that. Good luck. Why should I do anything when doing so can only hurt me.
    Because you are a police officer, and it's your job to. It may not seem fair, but it comes with the territory. You are in a high profile position within the city, and are tasked daily with dealing with inhabitants of it who don't abide by its laws. That's dangerous, clearly, which is why we, as a society, grant cops a certain level of power (like the legal right to carry and discharge a weapon at another human being) so as to do their jobs effectively. With that power comes an equal amount of responsibility. I'm not telling you you don't respect that responsibility, but if you aren't willing to risk these things, you're in the wrong line of work. Policemen are servants for the public. "Protect and serve" is in regard to the citizens of the city/nation, not just your brothers in blue.

    I've been filmed a million times. I've never put my hands on someone unless I've had to. But the filmin never starts when I'm repeatedly asking the guy to step back or to calm down. It never even starts when the guy takes the first swing at me. But me and my partner or the group of cops trying to wrestle the guy to the ground is what makes YouTube.

    It's absurd. But when someone is under arrest and resists, what is the civilian answer to my response. When a guy like Eric Garner says "it ends today" and resists, should I just say "oh, okay. You're not under arrest anymore" and walk away?
    No, but in the case of Garner, whether or not that officer did or did not use excessive force doesn't matter at the moment. What matters is he took a life. When push comes to shove, Eric Garner won't ever breathe again, and the answer to that simply cannot be apathy, especially from the cop who killed him (regardless of whether he did so intentionally or not).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    http://nypost.com/2014/08/20/a-cops-...-only-tragedy/

    Good article that makes valuable points. The way police are treated now makes me hesitant to do anything. You call me for a robbery, I take police action and now I'm risking everything I own, my job and possibly criminal charges? Fuck that. Good luck. Why should I do anything when doing so can only hurt me.

    I've been filmed a million times. I've never put my hands on someone unless I've had to. But the filmin never starts when I'm repeatedly asking the guy to step back or to calm down. It never even starts when the guy takes the first swing at me. But me and my partner or the group of cops trying to wrestle the guy to the ground is what makes YouTube.

    It's absurd. But when someone is under arrest and resists, what is the civilian answer to my response. When a guy like Eric Garner says "it ends today" and resists, should I just say "oh, okay. You're not under arrest anymore" and walk away?
    As much of a tragedy the Garner incident was, and of the officer who put the choke hold on having a questionable record, all Garner had to do was keep his mouth shut and he would still be alive today. Its common freakin sense.
    I know the stories, I know he's upset, I know that maybe he feels he is being taken advantage of, but what is wrong with just keeping your mouth shut? You go into a squad car, answer their questions, and it goes from there. If he was trying to break up a fight than its even more stupid that he didn't just zip up and listen. Even if he was just acting and acted nice. It's not like those officers were hammering on him and even yelling. The only one doing the shouting was Mr. Garner.
    Last edited by I am Scags; 08-20-2014 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I am Scags View Post
    As much of a tragedy the Garner incident was, and of the officer who put the choke hold on having a questionable record, all Garner had to do was keep his mouth shut and he would still be alive today. Its common freakin sense.
    I know the stories, I know he's upset, I know that maybe he feels he is being taken advantage of, but what is wrong with just keeping your mouth shut? You go into a squad car, answer their questions, and it goes from there. If he was trying to break up a fight than its even more stupid that he didn't just zip up and listen. Even if he was just acting and acted nice. It's not like those officers were hammering on him and even yelling. The only one doing the shouting was Mr. Garner.
    If the cop didn't use a choke hold that killed him, he'd be alive today, too.

    The New York City Medical Examiner’s office has ruled that the chokehold by a police officer on a Staten Island man last month caused his death.
    Eric Garner’s July 17 death has been ruled a homicide, Medical Examiner’s office spokeswoman Julie Bolcer said Friday.
    His death was caused by the “compression of his neck (chokehold), compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police”
    and asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors, Bolcer said.
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/...th-a-homicide/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    http://nypost.com/2014/08/20/a-cops-...-only-tragedy/

    Good article that makes valuable points. The way police are treated now makes me hesitant to do anything. You call me for a robbery, I take police action and now I'm risking everything I own, my job and possibly criminal charges? Fuck that. Good luck. Why should I do anything when doing so can only hurt me.

    I've been filmed a million times. I've never put my hands on someone unless I've had to. But the filmin never starts when I'm repeatedly asking the guy to step back or to calm down. It never even starts when the guy takes the first swing at me. But me and my partner or the group of cops trying to wrestle the guy to the ground is what makes YouTube.

    It's absurd. But when someone is under arrest and resists, what is the civilian answer to my response. When a guy like Eric Garner says "it ends today" and resists, should I just say "oh, okay. You're not under arrest anymore" and walk away?
    The police officer applied a hold to Garner that the city medical examiner determined killed him. What do you think should happen to that officer?

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/...th-a-homicide/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Because you are a police officer, and it's your job to. It may not seem fair, but it comes with the territory. You are in a high profile position within the city, and are tasked daily with dealing with inhabitants of it who don't abide by its laws. That's dangerous, clearly, which is why we, as a society, grant cops a certain level of power (like the legal right to carry and discharge a weapon at another human being) so as to do their jobs effectively. With that power comes an equal amount of responsibility. I'm not telling you you don't respect that responsibility, but if you aren't willing to risk these things, you're in the wrong line of work. Policemen are servants for the public. "Protect and serve" is in regard to the citizens of the city/nation, not just your brothers in blue.



    No, but in the case of Garner, whether or not that officer did or did not use excessive force doesn't matter at the moment. What matters is he took a life. When push comes to shove, Eric Garner won't ever breathe again, and the answer to that simply cannot be apathy, especially from the cop who killed him (regardless of whether he did so intentionally or not).
    As to the first part: you don't think the public is tying the hands of cops? This isn't amadou diallo or Sean Bell or some instance where the police initiated the stop. Both ferguson and Eric Garner are police responding to a call for help acting in good faith and taking police action. The police were doing their job. It's not like they ignored the calls for help or initiated an illegal stop and frisk. How can you completely ruin guys lives and possibly send them to prison for doing their job? It's an absurd situation. It's like you being held fiscally responsible for a deal falling thru in your company when you did everything by the book. In both cases, The cop got a call made by someone who felt they were a victim and wanted the police to take police action. The cop gets there and shit goes south as they're acting in good faith, doing their job. We all take this job knowing we might die in the line of duty or have to take someone else's life. That's known. That's like Pete Figoski's family suing LaMont Pride for getting killed. Or Dennis Guerra's family suing the kid that started the fire in he projects that he lost his life in. The civil unrest I understand. But the fact that these guys are going to lose their jobs and possibly their homes and face prison time... That's not what we signed up for and shouldn't be considered for instances like this when a guy is taking police action.

    As for part 2: idk how to respond to that. Kiki Gray is also not breathing. People rioted and protested that too. He got shot for pulling a gun on a cop. In this instance, a cop was trying to pull a guy down to the ground, bc the guy resisted. Isn't their some liability assumed by he criminal for their actions? Again, I understand we have a position of authority and accountability. But how do you criminalize someone for doing the job you asked them to do, using the force made necessary by the actions of the perp in the way they were taught to do it? As a police officer, why should I do anything anymore when doing things that you asked me to do in a way I was taught to do it will jeopardize everything in my life? I might as well just show up 3 hours late and take a report. Atleast I won't get sued or go to jail, when clearly responding to the call can fuck me over 2 ways to Sunday

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The police officer applied a hold to Garner that the city medical examiner determined killed him. What do you think should happen to that officer?

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/...th-a-homicide/
    Did you watch the video? Based on what I saw, it started as a seatbelt take down, which is a move taught to us in the academy. In the "struggle", it became a modified choke. The whole exchange lasted 12 seconds and as soon as Garner was on his stomach, the cop let go. This isn't "do the right thing" where they lift radio Raheem off the ground by his neck until he goes limp. The cop tried getting a guy much bigger than him on his stomach to cuff him and did so as quickly as possible.

    I don't think anything should happen to the cop other than being reassigned. Before you say negligent homicide, this isn't a guy knowingly drinking and driving. The whole physical altercation is DIRECTLY bc of Eric Garner's refusal to get collared and physical resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    Did you watch the video? Based on what I saw, it started as a seatbelt take down, which is a move taught to us in the academy. In the "struggle", it became a modified choke. The whole exchange lasted 12 seconds and as soon as Garner was on his stomach, the cop let go. This isn't "do the right thing" where they lift radio Raheem off the ground by his neck until he goes limp. The cop tried getting a guy much bigger than him on his stomach to cuff him and did so as quickly as possible.

    I don't think anything should happen to the cop other than being reassigned. Before you say negligent homicide, this isn't a guy knowingly drinking and driving. The whole physical altercation is DIRECTLY bc of Eric Garner's refusal to get collared and physical resistance.
    It's involuntary manslaughter, plain and simple.

    As WCBS 880’s Peter Haskell reported, CBS News Legal Analyst Jack Ford said the results will help the District Attorney with his investigation.

    “It gives the prosecutor an opportunity to say, ‘All right, I’ve got most of the things I need here,’” he said.
    He believes a likely charge could be manslaughter.

    “That deals with circumstances where you didn’t intend to kill somebody, but you did engage in reckless conduct,
    ” Ford said.
    When a guy is screaming that he's losing the ability to breathe, and you keep the choke on him, that's reckless.

    Someone lost their life, and you think there should be absolutely no consequences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    As to the first part: you don't think the public is tying the hands of cops? This isn't amadou diallo or Sean Bell or some instance where the police initiated the stop. Both ferguson and Eric Garner are police responding to a call for help acting in good faith and taking police action. The police were doing their job. It's not like they ignored the calls for help or initiated an illegal stop and frisk. How can you completely ruin guys lives and possibly send them to prison for doing their job? It's an absurd situation. It's like you being held fiscally responsible for a deal falling thru in your company when you did everything by the book. In both cases, The cop got a call made by someone who felt they were a victim and wanted the police to take police action. The cop gets there and shit goes south as they're acting in good faith, doing their job. We all take this job knowing we might die in the line of duty or have to take someone else's life. That's known. That's like Pete Figoski's family suing LaMont Pride for getting killed. Or Dennis Guerra's family suing the kid that started the fire in he projects that he lost his life in. The civil unrest I understand. But the fact that these guys are going to lose their jobs and possibly their homes and face prison time... That's not what we signed up for and shouldn't be considered for instances like this when a guy is taking police action.
    The city medical examiner determined that the man died as a direct result of the choke hold he was put in when the police were attempting to cuff him. Ergo, they killed him. Intentionally or not. Justifiably or not. He died as a direct result of their actions. That's why they are held accountable for those actions, as they should be, policemen or not, protocol or not. That's not to say that Garner didn't make matters worse by resisting, but ultimately, he died because he was put in a choke hold during the incident.

    Not that I think the analogy holds much weight, but yes, if I do everything "by the book", and a deal falls through and I lose my company money, they are well within their rights to fire me. It may not seem fair, but ultimately, when all the chips fall, I lost them money. Intentionally or not.

    At the end of the day, being a policeman doesn't grant you immunity to potentially breaking laws, and when a medical examiner determines a death a homicide, that means that person was killed. You're a law enforcement officer. If it's not murder, it's manslaughter. A man died as the result of the actions of another man, regardless of either of their positions in life. So of course it's reasonable that this policeman could lose his job and/or face jail time.

    As for part 2: idk how to respond to that. Kiki Gray is also not breathing. People rioted and protested that too. He got shot for pulling a gun on a cop. In this instance, a cop was trying to pull a guy down to the ground, bc the guy resisted. Isn't their some liability assumed by he criminal for their actions? Again, I understand we have a position of authority and accountability. But how do you criminalize someone for doing the job you asked them to do, using the force made necessary by the actions of the perp in the way they were taught to do it? As a police officer, why should I do anything anymore when doing things that you asked me to do in a way I was taught to do it will jeopardize everything in my life? I might as well just show up 3 hours late and take a report. Atleast I won't get sued or go to jail, when clearly responding to the call can fuck me over 2 ways to Sunday
    Because you are a police officer, and those are part of the risks you take as one when you get up and strap a gun to your hip and go on patrol. You risk the chance you could accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, or mace a child, or any slew of other things you more than likely wouldn't have intended to do. And in the event you do one of these things, you should absolutely be held accountable for it. You assume that risk as part of the job.

    Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of whether they wear a badge, a court dress, an orange jump suit or a t-shirt and jeans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It's involuntary manslaughter, plain and simple.



    When a guy is screaming that he's losing the ability to breathe, and you keep the choke on him, that's reckless.

    Someone lost their life, and you think there should be absolutely no consequences?


    Police have, not just the right, but the responsibility to arrest those who commit crimes. If a citizen, being arrested resists, then officers have to use force. Conveniently, the video jumps from him talking to the police to the second before officers try to restrain him. Some amount of time passed. I have to imagine that the reason it was cut out is because it lessened the impact of the police officers actions. For instance, perhaps police were trying for minutes to arrest him and asked him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back so he could be cuffed but he refused. We don't know unless someone has seen the unedited video.

    Had he simply accepted that he was being arrested, he'd likely be alive today. Instead, he kept repeating, "do not touch me" and trying to move away from officers. Police have to touch you when you're being arrested, more so if you resist. It took 5 officers to get him to the ground because he's a big guy. He still fought. From the time he first said, "I can't breath" to the choke hold being released is less than 1 second. The officer is still putting pressure on the side of his head to keep him pinned to the ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It's involuntary manslaughter, plain and simple.



    When a guy is screaming that he's losing the ability to breathe, and you keep the choke on him, that's reckless.

    Someone lost their life, and you think there should be absolutely no consequences?
    Everyone screams that they can't breathe and that the cuffs are too tight. Everyone does, with out fail.

    And no. The guy was acting effecting an arrest. I've seen guys resist arrest and have their arms broken. They sue the city and the city settles. I don't see how this is any different. Garner broke the law. Garner resisted arrest and the officer had to bring him to the ground. That's his job. His job states that he is within the right to use the amount of force necessary to arrest the subject, and that's what he did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The city medical examiner determined that the man died as a direct result of the choke hold he was put in when the police were attempting to cuff him. Ergo, they killed him. Intentionally or not. Justifiably or not. He died as a direct result of their actions. That's why they are held accountable for those actions, as they should be, policemen or not, protocol or not. That's not to say that Garner didn't make matters worse by resisting, but ultimately, he died because he was put in a choke hold during the incident.

    Not that I think the analogy holds much weight, but yes, if I do everything "by the book", and a deal falls through and I lose my company money, they are well within their rights to fire me. It may not seem fair, but ultimately, when all the chips fall, I lost them money. Intentionally or not.

    At the end of the day, being a policeman doesn't grant you immunity to potentially breaking laws, and when a medical examiner determines a death a homicide, that means that person was killed. You're a law enforcement officer. If it's not murder, it's manslaughter. A man died as the result of the actions of another man, regardless of either of their positions in life. So of course it's reasonable that this policeman could lose his job and/or face jail time.



    Because you are a police officer, and those are part of the risks you take as one when you get up and strap a gun to your hip and go on patrol. You risk the chance you could accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, or mace a child, or any slew of other things you more than likely wouldn't have intended to do. And in the event you do one of these things, you should absolutely be held accountable for it. You assume that risk as part of the job.

    Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of whether they wear a badge, a court dress, an orange jump suit or a t-shirt and jeans.
    Your right not a good comparison. Cop works for the public. If he follows the rules he served the public good. If someone dies in the course of him doing his job the right way it's unfortunate but not his fault. Case by case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post


    Police have, not just the right, but the responsibility to arrest those who commit crimes. If a citizen, being arrested resists, then officers have to use force. Conveniently, the video jumps from him talking to the police to the second before officers try to restrain him. Some amount of time passed. I have to imagine that the reason it was cut out is because it lessened the impact of the police officers actions. For instance, perhaps police were trying for minutes to arrest him and asked him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back so he could be cuffed but he refused. We don't know unless someone has seen the unedited video.

    Had he simply accepted that he was being arrested, he'd likely be alive today. Instead, he kept repeating, "do not touch me" and trying to move away from officers. Police have to touch you when you're being arrested, more so if you resist. It took 5 officers to get him to the ground because he's a big guy. He still fought. From the time he first said, "I can't breath" to the choke hold being released is less than 1 second. The officer is still putting pressure on the side of his head to keep him pinned to the ground.
    Huh? That's not at all what that video shows, I don't know how you can say that. Regardless, it's not up for debate. The ME said the choke hold killed Garner. That's the end of story. There are always consequences when someone dies of unnatural causes, whether they are criminal or civil. So to sit there and say the cop should just get reassigned and oh well, too bad, for Garner and his family is kind of bullshit.

    What I keep wanting to ask and forgetting to is; was he being approached for selling loose cigarettes, or for trying to stop a fight? Seems like the cops keep saying they were under some kind of mandate to crack down on illegal cigarettes, but the guy narrating the video said they approached him for trying to stop a fight. I'm not sure which is accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    Everyone screams that they can't breathe and that the cuffs are too tight. Everyone does, with out fail.

    And no. The guy was acting effecting an arrest. I've seen guys resist arrest and have their arms broken. They sue the city and the city settles. I don't see how this is any different. Garner broke the law. Garner resisted arrest and the officer had to bring him to the ground. That's his job. His job states that he is within the right to use the amount of force necessary to arrest the subject, and that's what he did.
    Well, maybe next time someone says they can't breathe, the cops will listen, before someone else has to die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The city medical examiner determined that the man died as a direct result of the choke hold he was put in when the police were attempting to cuff him. Ergo, they killed him. Intentionally or not. Justifiably or not. He died as a direct result of their actions. That's why they are held accountable for those actions, as they should be, policemen or not, protocol or not. That's not to say that Garner didn't make matters worse by resisting, but ultimately, he died because he was put in a choke hold during the incident.

    Not that I think the analogy holds much weight, but yes, if I do everything "by the book", and a deal falls through and I lose my company money, they are well within their rights to fire me. It may not seem fair, but ultimately, when all the chips fall, I lost them money. Intentionally or not.

    At the end of the day, being a policeman doesn't grant you immunity to potentially breaking laws, and when a medical examiner determines a death a homicide, that means that person was killed. You're a law enforcement officer. If it's not murder, it's manslaughter. A man died as the result of the actions of another man, regardless of either of their positions in life. So of course it's reasonable that this policeman could lose his job and/or face jail time.



    Because you are a police officer, and those are part of the risks you take as one when you get up and strap a gun to your hip and go on patrol. You risk the chance you could accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, or mace a child, or any slew of other things you more than likely wouldn't have intended to do. And in the event you do one of these things, you should absolutely be held accountable for it. You assume that risk as part of the job.

    Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of whether they wear a badge, a court dress, an orange jump suit or a t-shirt and jeans.

    I see your point, especially with the first section. It's one thing for your job to fire you, but they'd never come after you civilly or press criminal charges against you. That's my issue with this. Not so much the firing, but the fact that they want him to face criminal charges and he will not be indemnified and could lose his house, etc.

    And as for the second part, I don't agree. At all. I'm in trusted to make judgement calls based on my training and I'm putting myself in jeopardy everyday. We're taught not to shoot into a crowd or put lives I'm danger needlessly, so I agree that we can't act recklessly and put people at risk. I would accept responsibility for that if I'm at fault in such a manner bc I went against better judgement, went against protocol and put INNOCENT people at risk.

    What I didn't sign up for and what no cop signed up for is this. The fact that you can take every thing I own away and imprison me for making an arrest (which I was told to make) in a way I was taught to do it using force necessary so that I nor my co workers get hurt in the course of doing our duty. When the assailant begins to resist, I'm given the ability to use force, as per the patrol guide. How can you then ruin me when something bad happens if I'm acting accordingly?

    It's like a hockey player taking a hard legal hit that ends his career. Are you going to go after the guy civilly and criminally that laid down that hit? That's the risk they assume as hockey players. This is the risk cops and criminals assume when we go to work. They know if they resist or fight, we have the right to use the appropriate force to bring them down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    I see your point, especially with the first section. It's one thing for your job to fire you, but they'd never come after you civilly or press criminal charges against you. That's my issue with this. Not so much the firing, but the fact that they want him to face criminal charges and he will not be indemnified and could lose his house, etc.

    And as for the second part, I don't agree. At all. I'm in trusted to make judgement calls based on my training and I'm putting myself in jeopardy everyday. We're taught not to shoot into a crowd or put lives I'm danger needlessly, so I agree that we can't act recklessly and put people at risk. I would accept responsibility for that if I'm at fault in such a manner bc I went against better judgement, went against protocol and put INNOCENT people at risk.

    What I didn't sign up for and what no cop signed up for is this. The fact that you can take every thing I own away and imprison me for making an arrest (which I was told to make) in a way I was taught to do it using force necessary so that I nor my co workers get hurt in the course of doing our duty. When the assailant begins to resist, I'm given the ability to use force, as per the patrol guide. How can you then ruin me when something bad happens if I'm acting accordingly?

    It's like a hockey player taking a hard legal hit that ends his career. Are you going to go after the guy civilly and criminally that laid down that hit? That's the risk they assume as hockey players. This is the risk cops and criminals assume when we go to work. They know if they resist or fight, we have the right to use the appropriate force to bring them down.
    Not excessive.

    And authorities in Montreal debated for close to a year about bringing criminal charges against Chara for the hit that broke MaxPac's neck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well, maybe next time someone says they can't breathe, the cops will listen, before someone else has to die.
    If it was me, I wouldn't expect the cop to let go. They have to make the arrest. They have to get him cuffed. This is very unfortunate, but at the same time it's very rare. How often does this exact example occur?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    If it was me, I wouldn't expect the cop to let go. They have to make the arrest. They have to get him cuffed. This is very unfortunate, but at the same time it's very rare. How often does this exact example occur?
    That's not the issue. It's the issue of consequence.

    The cop made a judgement call. Garner said he couldn't breathe...Now, Niko is saying "everyone says they can't breathe". So If I'm to believe that...The cop heard Garner say he couldn't breathe, made a judgement call not to believe him, and Garner died from it. There has to be consequences for poor judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Not excessive.

    And authorities in Montreal debated for close to a year about bringing criminal charges against Chara for the hit that broke MaxPac's neck.
    I don't think it was excessive. I think it was an unfortunate incident. That guy was a house.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's not the issue. It's the issue of consequence.

    The cop made a judgement call. Garner said he couldn't breathe...Now, Niko is saying "everyone says they can't breathe". So If I'm to believe that...The cop heard Garner say he couldn't breathe, made a judgement call not to believe him, and Garner died from it. There has to be consequences for poor judgement.
    You can't change the law/rules every time a 1in a million incident occurs. Devils advocate: Garner screams that he can't breathe. Cop lets go. Garner grabs his gun. Cop is dead. Poor judgement either way.
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