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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #201
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    Pros/Cons of buying a bitcoin ETF?
    More volatile than buying an actual bitcoin?
    Would it have just as much upside as buying a bitcoin?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    less interesting??? lol

    listen, a bunch of programmers figured out how to turn 16 million equations into 45 billion dollars. If creating 45 billion dollars out of thin air isn't interesting to you then I don't know what to tell you
    Not interesting for one second lol

    It's really only interesting to people who have invested in bitcoin and financial types. In that sense, its no different than any other stock.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Not interesting for one second lol

    It's really only interesting to people who have invested in bitcoin and financial types. In that sense, its no different than any other stock.
    Is it like every other stock? I have not researched it enough so maybe you can explain it to me. If Joe Smith invests in GM he becomes a part owner of a company making cars. He also knows they will usually also pay him a quarterly or annual dividend in addition to his part ownership. When you buy bitcoin what exactly is going up or down? What do you own? Is it more like a stock (GM in my example) or a commodity like gold?

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Fotiu View Post
    When you buy bitcoin what exactly is going up or down? What do you own? Is it more like a stock (GM in my example) or a commodity like gold?
    You are buying a currency that others agree has value. Instead of being backed by the full faith and credit of a country like the US, it is backed by the strength of the encryption, the finite supply, and the network of users. It has value because others agree it has value, which is no different than a national currency which actually has more fundamental problems because a country can print as much money as it wants with no limit. There will never and can never be more bitcoin than the capped amount. It's not a commodity because it has no value except the value people ascribe to it (besides jewelry, gold is actually a very useful material in electronics and other fields )


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Heaven View Post
    Pros/Cons of buying a bitcoin ETF?
    As far as I know there are no bitcoin ETFs, you have to straight up buy bitcoins. You can do it in a one off transaction or use a market like Gemini

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    You are buying a currency that others agree has value. Instead of being backed by the full faith and credit of a country like the US, it is backed by the strength of the encryption, the finite supply, and the network of users. It has value because others agree it has value, which is no different than a national currency which actually has more fundamental problems because a country can print as much money as it wants with no limit. There will never and can never be more bitcoin than the capped amount. It's not a commodity because it has no value except the value people ascribe to it (besides jewelry, gold is actually a very useful material in electronics and other fields )



    As far as I know there are no bitcoin ETFs, you have to straight up buy bitcoins. You can do it in a one off transaction or use a market like Gemini
    Bitcoin Investment Trust, kind of like an ETF. Winklevoss' tried to get an ETF off the ground but were denied, going back under review.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    You are buying a currency that others agree has value. Instead of being backed by the full faith and credit of a country like the US, it is backed by the strength of the encryption, the finite supply, and the network of users. It has value because others agree it has value, which is no different than a national currency which actually has more fundamental problems because a country can print as much money as it wants with no limit. There will never and can never be more bitcoin than the capped amount. It's not a commodity because it has no value except the value people ascribe to it (besides jewelry, gold is actually a very useful material in electronics and other fields )



    As far as I know there are no bitcoin ETFs, you have to straight up buy bitcoins. You can do it in a one off transaction or use a market like Gemini
    How can anyone say it is worth $5, $500, or $5000? How can people know when it is cheap or expensive? Is it totally arbitrary? If GM goes up 100% I might disagree with it but I could point to sales and the hope for future earnings/dividends. What is driving Bitcoins price other than a feeding frenzy or a bubble? If Bitcoin drops 50% tomorrow can we say it is cheap or still have no way of knowing? You say that others agree it has value but isnt that how the Dutch Tulip Craze happened? People placed a crazy high value on Tulips that kept snowballing?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Fotiu View Post
    How can anyone say it is worth $5, $500, or $5000? How can people know when it is cheap or expensive?
    The answer comes down to fundamental economic principles - supply and demand. We've discussed the supply side which is constrained, so everything driving price right now is demand. There are a lot of speculators pumping money into the system and a lot of money has come in with more on the way. The biggest change in the past months was the government of Japan green lighting bitcoin as a legal form of currency which opened up a whole new universe.

    All of a sudden China who had banned it started re-examining. The US doesn't view it as currency but rather as a virtual asset and they try to track who buys and sells because a lot of the users are drug dealers / suppliers / users at the wholesale level and unscrupulous international actors of all kinds. But what makes it attractive to criminals also makes it attractive to regular people because all of a sudden you have a currency where the government can't control how you spend or transfer it. That sort of freedom is very attractive

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    The answer comes down to fundamental economic principles - supply and demand. We've discussed the supply side which is constrained, so everything driving price right now is demand. There are a lot of speculators pumping money into the system and a lot of money has come in with more on the way. The biggest change in the past months was the government of Japan green lighting bitcoin as a legal form of currency which opened up a whole new universe.

    All of a sudden China who had banned it started re-examining. The US doesn't view it as currency but rather as a virtual asset and they try to track who buys and sells because a lot of the users are drug dealers / suppliers / users at the wholesale level and unscrupulous international actors of all kinds. But what makes it attractive to criminals also makes it attractive to regular people because all of a sudden you have a currency where the government can't control how you spend or transfer it. That sort of freedom is very attractive
    As an economist I liked that part in bold.

    Supply and demand are placing a market value on it but I'm trying to find out if there is anymore to it. For example if you, I and Jesper Fast are stranded on Gilligan's island and Don Rickel's auctioned off a Wendy's chicken sandwich one of us might be willing to pay $50,000 for the Wendy's chicken sandwich due to supply and demand. So $50,000 would be its market value but it would still be a Wendy's chicken sandwich.

  9. #209
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    $7100

    The price is seventy one fucking hundred dollars

    loooooooooooooooool

  10. #210
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    Quick Release is probably living on his own personal island in the middle of the Pacific by now

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    $7100

    The price is seventy one fucking hundred dollars

    loooooooooooooooool
    It was $7800 the other day. Now $6200 after dropping to around $5500. Would you be concerned about the dollar going up or down 20% in a day? I'd be concerned about any currency or stock having that dramatic volatility. I'm not long or short Bitcoin but I would like to hear what the underlying fundamentals are that lead to this valuation.

  12. #212
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    Its kind of like gold where there's a finite amount in the world, and it takes a ton of resources to be able to "mine" it
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Fotiu View Post
    It was $7800 the other day. Now $6200 after dropping to around $5500. Would you be concerned about the dollar going up or down 20% in a day? I'd be concerned about any currency or stock having that dramatic volatility. I'm not long or short Bitcoin but I would like to hear what the underlying fundamentals are that lead to this valuation.
    I would be concerned about absolutely nothing if I bought a bunch for less than $100 a few years ago

    I would equally be concerned about nothing if I have a bunch of computers mining them for free

    But in terms of general consumers, you can buy and sell quickly to avoid the price swings. You can transfer cash to bitcoin, get the spot price and lock it in, and make your purchase all without holding any bitcoin

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Its kind of like gold where there's a finite amount in the world, and it takes a ton of resources to be able to "mine" it
    It's kind of like snake oil too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It's kind of like snake oil too
    It's not at all, snake oil is a fraudulent compound that does nothing which the peddlers claim. Bitcoin is a form of currency with a value that is accepted by the participants. People agree on its value through the market and you can tangibly convert between any denomination and complete a real transaction.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    It's not at all, snake oil is a fraudulent compound that does nothing which the peddlers claim. Bitcoin is a form of currency with a value that is accepted by the participants. People agree on its value through the market and you can tangibly convert between any denomination and complete a real transaction.
    Yea I know what it is. It's value is just completely made up.

    Also, I just like to make fun of it lol \_(ツ)_/

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Yea I know what it is. It's value is just completely made up.
    Exactly the same as the US Dollar, completely made up. You can actually argue that the US Dollar is an even bigger fabrication because the federal government can print an unlimited amount of bills whereas bitcoin has a capped finite value making it more similar to gold than government currency

  18. #218
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    Gold as a precious metal is also commodity that can be sold on its own even though some people do use it as a currency. Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency like the USA dollar. The dollar represents purchasing power like bitcoin but it has has a much more realistic valuation not to mention it is backed by the full faith and credit of the USA government. People know what the reasonable purchase power of a dollar is because it is measured vs other currency and stays in a some what limited range.

    Right now bitcoin is being driven by speculation like the dutch tulip in my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm against bitcoin but I just think people are showing irrationality when I see crazy fluctions in what is being sold as a form of currency. Paypal dollars were equal to real dollars. Bitcoin could move up or down 50% in a week based on nothing more than speculation in my opinion. That makes it hard to believe that its price is based on any real fundamentals.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Exactly the same as the US Dollar, completely made up. You can actually argue that the US Dollar is an even bigger fabrication because the federal government can print an unlimited amount of bills whereas bitcoin has a capped finite value making it more similar to gold than government currency
    Anyone can go make new cryptocurrencies.

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