4 Dead, 50+ Injured in Major Metro North Derailment

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Wow, this is absolutely terrible. I take Amtrak up this line a couple of times each year so I'm pretty familiar with the site of the derailment. The train was heading south towards Grand Central and jumped the tracks as it went through the curve leading into Spuyten Duyvil station. The speed limit through that curve is 30 MPH from what I've read and the straightaway prior to the curve has a speed limit of 75. Have to think something happened be it human error, or equipment error where the train wasn't braking as it approached the curve. If the train jumps the tracks at 30MPH I really doubt it would skid well over a hundred yards, jack knife, and end up in the river like what happened here. Pray for all of those who are involved in this tragedy. Guess we can be thankful that this happened on a Sunday morning and not during rush hour where without a doubt many more people would have been killed and injured.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNt24DET2SQ

You can see at the start of that video what I was talking about. Shows the trains go pretty slow through that curve.

Really terrible. My dad used to work for LIRR and he thinks that because it was cars in the middle, it was likely that the engineer was speeding. If it was a broken rail, the first cars would have been derailed.

The first car of the train ended up in the hudson pretty much. It was operating in "push" mode where the locomotive is at the rear of the train. Family friend of mine is an engineer for the LIRR and he thinks for sure it was a speed issue. Could be human error, could be the equipment he believes.

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Some more pics from yahoo. Full gallery here. http://news.yahoo.com/metro-north-derailment-133919511.html

The engineer stated he lost the brakes. Data recorders will eventually tell us the truth and if he did indeed lose function of the brakes or he was speeding and failed to slow down in time for the curve.

I've always wondered about this curve. I've never ridden on the line but I used to see it clearly across from the Palisades where I used to hike and its a pretty sharp curve for a commuter rail line and you see why they have to slow down to 30.

NTSB released some of their findings today.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Investigation-Metro-North-Derailment-Bronx-234049401.html

The throttle was set to idle 6 seconds before the rear engine derailed

The train was dumped 5 seconds before the rear engine derailed

The train was going 82mph leading into the curve.

Based off of those 3 things it sure sounds like this is human error. Terrible.

They are saying they cant tell if he was speeding or not at this time. The issue I have is why was the engine pushing and not pulling the cars. This is also only about 1700 yards from where the one earlier this summer was, I wonder if it could be a broken track that finally gave way with the temp changes.

The whole push pull operations have been around for a while now I don't think there is much of a problem there. Seems like just about every passenger railroad around uses that method. Granted having a cab car full of passengers leading the train is a recipe for disaster in the event of a collision but I don't think there is anything that can really be done about that. If they outlawed that they'd have to outlaw all the electric trains that we see all over the place as well.

The whole push pull operations have been around for a while now I don't think there is much of a problem there. Seems like just about every passenger railroad around uses that method. Granted having a cab car full of passengers leading the train is a recipe for disaster in the event of a collision but I don't think there is anything that can really be done about that. If they outlawed that they'd have to outlaw all the electric trains that we see all over the place as well.

NJ Transit pushes too.

The article says it's too early to tell if it was human error. It could have been brake failure.

But if the event recorder is correct applying the brakes 5 seconds before the derailment is still way too late to slow the train down from 83 to even like 50 where they would have a chance of taking the curve without issue. Brakes should of been applied well before the curve.

I really hope it does come out that it was an equipment error and not human error. The crew of the train is never going to be able to get over this to begin with and if it comes out that it was totally preventable that just makes matters even worse.

But if the event recorder is correct applying the brakes 5 seconds before the derailment is still way too late to slow the train down from 83 to even like 50 where they would have a chance of taking the curve without issue. Brakes should of been applied well before the curve.

I really hope it does come out that it was an equipment error and not human error. The crew of the train is never going to be able to get over this to begin with and if it comes out that it was totally preventable that just makes matters even worse.

Is 5-6 seconds not enough time to slow down a train? I don't know. I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said that wasn't enough time, but my reading comprehension sucks.

I know here in NJ they push-pull all the time. You have to because cars are not going to be able to switch each time on each trip, its nearly impossible unless it goes into a yard each time which would be time consuming.

NJ transit used to run cars that were fully electric on their elctrified line, but then in the mid 90s they started to go to trains that carried about 6 or 7 non powered cars and the one electric locomotive.

This particular Metro north line is still all diesel. It costs a lot of money to do but you have to figure at some point they will eventually electrify all commuter rail lines in the US and have the diesels as back up.

Is 5-6 seconds not enough time to slow down a train? I don't know. I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said that wasn't enough time, but my reading comprehension sucks.

Trains need a really long distance to properly brake. Especially at high speeds, because the momentum of the mass acts differently and the tracks are fairly smooth.

Trains need a really long distance to properly brake. Especially at high speeds, because the momentum of the mass acts differently and the tracks are fairly smooth.

Ok, but the NTSB isn't saying whether or not it was enough time to slow down, they're just revealing the info from the black box. Off the train topic for example : If I ask the question, "Was X long enough for the wall?", your answer can't be "It's 4 feet". That doesn't answer the question .... know what I mean?

Ok, but the NTSB isn't saying whether or not it was enough time to slow down, they're just revealing the info from the black box. Off the train topic for example : If I ask the question, "Was X long enough for the wall?", your answer can't be "It's 4 feet". That doesn't answer the question .... know what I mean?

I think their answer is the most telling fact they've discovered with great certainty. It's not a very eloquent answer, but they are basically explaining what happened and the research will fill in the blanks. However, if it had become a matter of seconds, no, there was not enough time to bring the train to a halt or at least a more proper speed.

The whole push pull operations have been around for a while now I don't think there is much of a problem there. Seems like just about every passenger railroad around uses that method. Granted having a cab car full of passengers leading the train is a recipe for disaster in the event of a collision but I don't think there is anything that can really be done about that. If they outlawed that they'd have to outlaw all the electric trains that we see all over the place as well.

But usually when they are pushing a train, they have a dead head car as well, and in the cases of an engine, there is usually a second engine at the other end.