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Phil in Absentia
07-01-2018, 08:36 AM
1013396041960308736
Mobile link: https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1013396041960308736?s=21


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Phil in Absentia
07-01-2018, 08:52 AM
1013403793201889280
Mobile link: https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1013403793201889280?s=21

Very reasonable


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4EverRangerFrank
07-01-2018, 11:56 AM
Nuffin’ happenin’- the suspense is pretty unsuspenseful.

paddynyc
07-02-2018, 10:04 AM
All low key Frank keep to rebuild plan and I'm not expecting anything big

Phil in Absentia
07-02-2018, 10:24 AM
Nuffin’ happenin’- the suspense is pretty unsuspenseful.

For the Rangers, that's a good thing.


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Ozzy
07-02-2018, 12:10 PM
I'm with you man....the less, the better. I wanna see these kids play this year, with nothing in the way of roster clogging. If we can get 2 or 3 solid players to build on for next year I'll be happy as a pig in shit. At the end of this season I wanna be able to hang my hat on a couple of players that I can call "my guys".

I do want a tough guy though; I don't want any of our kids playing in fear that they're not going to be stood up for while they're growing up.

So Nashty
07-02-2018, 12:22 PM
None of the ufa’s are really all that exciting me to. And I don’t mean there aren’t/weren’t good players available, I just don’t want any of them on this team.

I’m fine if they stand pat in terms of ufa signings.

Wouldn’t mind a trade for a guy that brings in assets along with a bad contract and offers a bit of leadership. But none of the guys being rumored are all that interesting to me either.


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Ozzy
07-02-2018, 01:57 PM
None of the ufa’s are really all that exciting me to. And I don’t mean there aren’t/weren’t good players available, I just don’t want any of them on this team.

I’m fine if they stand pat in terms of ufa signings.

Wouldn’t mind a trade for a guy that brings in assets along with a bad contract and offers a bit of leadership. But none of the guys being rumored are all that interesting to me either.


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I think less is more this year. So yeah, I'm with ya!

I'm kind of torn though because I want to see our young guys play well, but on the other hand we're going to have to lose a LOT of games to score a top 3 pick in the 2019 draft. I don't believe we have many more assets to deal to get a pick that high, so I suppose we're going to have to accept the "growing pains" this season.

torontonyr
07-02-2018, 08:40 PM
Ottawa has given teams permission to speak with EK as apparently he wants to be resigned to his destination.

Gravesy
07-03-2018, 04:17 AM
The Rangers aren't interested according to Carpiniello.


Erik​ Karlsson is​ on the trade​ market,​ but​ the​ dynamic Ottawa defenseman​ won’t be coming​ to Manhattan,​ The Athletic​ has learned.

According​​ to people familiar with the Rangers’ thinking, a trade for Karlsson would go against their rebuild in that they would not be willing to give up the top prospects it would take to get him

I think they're doing really well so far, and with every day that passes it becomes clearer and and clearer that this is an actual rebuild. After looking at the terms given to most of the UFA's that might have been options I'm happy they stayed away. It's the right move. Absolutely no point giving guys like Beagle and Bozak 3 years + at the start of a rebuild.

torontonyr
07-03-2018, 06:28 AM
Means it wouldn't be a flip.

torontonyr
07-03-2018, 11:07 AM
Rangers out on EK

Slobberknocker
07-04-2018, 02:14 PM
would anyone consider trying to throw a poison pill contract at dylan larkin? 21 years old and had 62 points last year. wings are 9 mln under the cap

Long live the King
07-04-2018, 02:35 PM
would anyone consider trying to throw a poison pill contract at dylan larkin? 21 years old and had 62 points last year. wings are 9 mln under the cap

No. Not worth it

Giacomin
07-04-2018, 02:48 PM
would anyone consider trying to throw a poison pill contract at dylan larkin? 21 years old and had 62 points last year. wings are 9 mln under the cap

Don't think the GM's would do it w/o owner approval, teams just don't do it.

Hypothetically the offer should go no higher than the compensation equal to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Even that might get matched and now Detroit has an axe to grind. Besides do we really want to risk a possible very high 2019 pick to make this move now? There are not many players worth our 2019 #1. It's pretty much untradeable.

Was going to start a thread suggesting one trade. Go after 23 y/o Athanasiou who had major issues his last contract and is currently unsigned. He is a blazing fast weapon, versatile and still getting better. He can be part of a long term winner, like Hags. He'd give us more flexibility to trade wingers or centers, later in the season. Sign him to the same contract as Jon Moore :)

jjweimar
07-04-2018, 03:22 PM
Yakupov signed in the khl

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josh
07-05-2018, 07:13 PM
Hayes, Vesey, Skjei and Spooner all file for salary arbitration

G1000
07-05-2018, 07:31 PM
1015006959874072581
He's comin home?

jsm7302
07-05-2018, 07:33 PM
Callahan and Girardi for Anderson and Chytil..... You heard it here first.....

priorae
07-05-2018, 07:56 PM
They need to do this right. The Lightning can’t do this without getting rid of current NHL talent or using the Rangers space. Taking on Callahan needs to come with a sweetener. Maybe the rangers can give them their second / (first restriction) back and they can yank Foote away from them along with Callahan.

josh
07-05-2018, 08:01 PM
They need to do this right. The Lightning can’t do this without getting rid of current NHL talent or using the Rangers space. Taking on Callahan needs to come with a sweetener. Maybe the rangers can give them their second / (first restriction) back and they can yank Foote away from them along with Callahan.

Why even give their pick back?

Long live the King
07-05-2018, 08:05 PM
They need to do this right. The Lightning can’t do this without getting rid of current NHL talent or using the Rangers space. Taking on Callahan needs to come with a sweetener. Maybe the rangers can give them their second / (first restriction) back and they can yank Foote away from them along with Callahan.

I'd rather have Katchouk than Foote.

rmc51
07-05-2018, 08:09 PM
They need to do this right. The Lightning can’t do this without getting rid of current NHL talent or using the Rangers space. Taking on Callahan needs to come with a sweetener. Maybe the rangers can give them their second / (first restriction) back and they can yank Foote away from them along with Callahan.

I'll take Foote and turning that conditional into a guaranteed 1st....or they can try and find someone else willing to take their junk.

rangers02
07-07-2018, 12:30 PM
I'll take Foote and turning that conditional into a guaranteed 1st....or they can try and find someone else willing to take their junk.Does Gorton want to get Callahan as part of that deal? It will all depend on how much Tampa offers us. We can get Foote for that respective pick for the 1st round. Can we pick up his salary?

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RodrigueGabriel
07-07-2018, 03:37 PM
Getting Foote AND firming the conditional into a 1st is essentially giving us TBL's next and last year's 1sts and I would think pretty unlikely. Just getting Foote INSTEAD of the conditional is potentially (should the Leafs smoke TBL in the division final) moving from a future 58th to a concrete (2017) 14th that is 2 yrs closer to the NHL. Looking at what it cost to move from 26 to 22 in this past draft, that's a lot of value for spending a few mil on Cally. That also puts their 2019 1st back in play as part of the return for OTT and makes the whole thing more likely to happen. But even that may be too much for Stevie.

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Gravesy
07-07-2018, 03:42 PM
Surely we’ll make them bleed a bit to take on their disposables.
Katchouk/Foote or kindly fuck off.

Giacomin
07-07-2018, 04:04 PM
Getting Foote AND firming the conditional into a 1st is essentially giving us TBL's next and last year's 1sts and I would think pretty unlikely. Just getting Foote INSTEAD of the conditional is potentially (should the Leafs smoke TBL in the division final) moving from a future 58th to a concrete (2017) 14th that is 2 yrs closer to the NHL. Looking at what it cost to move from 26 to 22 in this past draft, that's a lot of value for spending a few mil on Cally. That also puts their 2019 1st back in play as part of the return for OTT and makes the whole thing more likely to happen. But even that may be too much for Stevie.


Excellent post Rodrigue and it still may be too optimistic. Stevie values Serg and Foote highly. It would seem one has to go to Ottawa, unless Point is the main piece, which I doubt. Yzerman will want to keep at least one of the two Dmen.

I still think the best we can hope for is Taylor Raddysh or Boris Katchouk. I'd give them their pick back if they send both wingers our way. What else would interest us. Yanni Gourde, who needs a contract? Anthony Cirelli is interesting, but he showed well with the Bolts and is too valuable to send just to take Cally.

Yzerman has no deadline, he's probably playing us against other clubs to widdle down the comp.

Shane Falco
07-07-2018, 04:08 PM
Surely we’ll make them bleed a bit to take on their disposables.
Katchouk/Foote or kindly fuck off.

If Gorton isn’t, he should. Fuck Tampa. Make it worth while to take the Jerry curl back or eat shit.

Fatfrancesa
07-07-2018, 04:09 PM
Rangers have zero reason to budge here. If tampa wants Karlsson then they need the cap space. Callys contract is a joke and a first minimum is required to take it on. That’s an additional first not turning the conditional we already own into no conditions. Foote or katchook would be ok too but that’s it. The rangers have no reason to help them. The cap space holds its value no reason to give it up unless it’s worth it

RodrigueGabriel
07-07-2018, 04:52 PM
Rangers have zero reason to budge here. If tampa wants Karlsson then they need the cap space. Callys contract is a joke and a first minimum is required to take it on. That’s an additional first not turning the conditional we already own into no conditions. Foote or katchook would be ok too but that’s it. The rangers have no reason to help them. The cap space holds its value no reason to give it up unless it’s worth it

I agree that we are useful to the deal and have cards to play. But we aren't the only ones with cap space.

Phil in Absentia
07-07-2018, 05:12 PM
No, but they have the most, and of the teams with oodles of cap room, are the only one rebuilding who probably don't care about losing next year. Winning and New Jersey aren't there. The Isles kind of are, but I doubt they'd admit it. Vegas really isn't, and Ottawa is, but are run by a notorious cheapskate.


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RodrigueGabriel
07-07-2018, 05:18 PM
No, but they have the most, and of the teams with oodles of cap room, are the only one rebuilding who probably don't care about losing next year. Winning and New Jersey aren't there. The Isles kind of are, but I doubt they'd admit it. Vegas really isn't, and Ottawa is, but are run by a notorious cheapskate.


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What do you think is a reasonable bottom line?

Fatfrancesa
07-07-2018, 05:27 PM
I agree that we are useful to the deal and have cards to play. But we aren't the only ones with cap space.

No we aren’t but we a team who isn’t concerned about every penny spent. The rangers should be willing to use some cash to acquire assets unlike many of the others with space. Also and more important is that the rangers don’t have any players coming up on big raises that they have to sign. The rangers space is long term while the jets for instance isn’t.

Regardless teams don’t just take bad contracts off teams hands. We have had our bad contracts over the years and they’ve become impossible to move. If Stevie y wants to move cally then it’s far past time to make him bleed. If some other team wants to let him off the hook than do be it

RodrigueGabriel
07-07-2018, 05:36 PM
No we aren’t but we a team who isn’t concerned about every penny spent. The rangers should be willing to use some cash to acquire assets unlike many of the others with space. Also and more important is that the rangers don’t have any players coming up on big raises that they have to sign. The rangers space is long term while the jets for instance isn’t.

Regardless teams don’t just take bad contracts off teams hands. We have had our bad contracts over the years and they’ve become impossible to move. If Stevie y wants to move cally then it’s far past time to make him bleed. If some other team wants to let him off the hook than do be it

Good points. Thanks.

Phil in Absentia
07-07-2018, 06:38 PM
What do you think is a reasonable bottom line?

For what?


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RodrigueGabriel
07-07-2018, 06:51 PM
For what?


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For picking up Cally's contract.

josh
07-07-2018, 06:51 PM
What do you think is a reasonable bottom line?

If the rangers are taking cap only (as in just ryan or Ryan, and not Karlsson/Kuc) the return needs to be big. A 2nd + from Ottawa (they won’t, as they do to have picks) or a 1st or top prospect from TB, and probably add to that.

Rangers aren’t taking on dead weight for free.

Phil in Absentia
07-07-2018, 06:58 PM
For picking up Cally's contract.

Not cheap. Sergachev, another first-round pick, or Katchouk and additional 2019 picks.


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Gravesy
07-07-2018, 11:30 PM
Sergachev would surely be part of any trade, i.e. headed to Ottawa?

Phil in Absentia
07-07-2018, 11:38 PM
Depends on all the other pieces involved. What I'm saying is I'm not taking ol' Brillo pad back without a serious kicker. Especially if EK65 is staying in Tampa. A team the Rangers will already be fighting to get past in order to win themselves. You want to load up with the Rangers' help? It's going to cost you more than whatever Karlssons's price tag may be. You're going to pay the Rangers, too. Significantly.


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Gravesy
07-08-2018, 04:43 AM
Absolutely. They can’t expect to have the Rangers help in bringing in their final piece for an immediate run at the Cup without giving up part of their future.
That acquisition is going to hurt a bit. In particular because they can’t swing it without us (or somebody else willing to eat salary).

Fatfrancesa
07-09-2018, 09:57 AM
Kravtsov to stay in Khl this season. Announced on team web site

Vodka Drunkenski
07-09-2018, 10:17 AM
Old news

Future
07-09-2018, 10:46 AM
No we aren’t but we a team who isn’t concerned about every penny spent. The rangers should be willing to use some cash to acquire assets unlike many of the others with space. Also and more important is that the rangers don’t have any players coming up on big raises that they have to sign. The rangers space is long term while the jets for instance isn’t.

Regardless teams don’t just take bad contracts off teams hands. We have had our bad contracts over the years and they’ve become impossible to move. If Stevie y wants to move cally then it’s far past time to make him bleed. If some other team wants to let him off the hook than do be it
Hayes and Skjei are currently not under contract, and are going to get big-time raises. Buch comes off his ELC after next year and will, presumably, get a huge raise. Zucc is a UFA after next season.

The Rangers are in a good cap space, but they've got about $20m per year they need to give out in contracts over this offseason and the next, not including guys like Vesey, Spooner, Pionk, and ADA.

The Dude
07-09-2018, 02:30 PM
Any chance that with these talks going on, the Rangers might just want to step in and trade for Karlsson?

josh
07-09-2018, 02:32 PM
Any chance that with these talks going on, the Rangers might just want to step in and trade for Karlsson?

day 1: Rangers will take on salary to help trade happen
day 2: Rangers are out of discussions
day 3: Rangers are in discussion to acquire Karlsson.
day 4: Rangers are not in discussions to acquire Karlsson or take on salary. They are sticking to the rebuild.

rinse and repeat.

josh
07-09-2018, 02:36 PM
Karlsson to TB was imminent, then fell through at the last minute (Friday? Thursday?)

There are rumors as to why it didnt happen... most thinking that Ottawa tried to include Ryan in the last minute.
My theory - Karlsson didnt want to sign an extension, prior to the trade. There have been some quiet rumors (that no one has really entertained) that there was mention of him wanting to sign in NY.

Rangers were in trade talks to take on salary... within a few days, we heard that Panarin and Karlsson both hinted at playing in cities that meet the description of NY. Since then, trade talks, and rumors about Rangers interest in taking on salary has died down.

Pete
07-09-2018, 02:56 PM
Karlsson to TB was imminent, then fell through at the last minute (Friday? Thursday?)

There are rumors as to why it didnt happen... most thinking that Ottawa tried to include Ryan in the last minute.
My theory - Karlsson didnt want to sign an extension, prior to the trade. There have been some quiet rumors (that no one has really entertained) that there was mention of him wanting to sign in NY.

Rangers were in trade talks to take on salary... within a few days, we heard that Panarin and Karlsson both hinted at playing in cities that meet the description of NY. Since then, trade talks, and rumors about Rangers interest in taking on salary has died down.
We couldn't afford both of them unless they took below market.

The Dude
07-09-2018, 04:55 PM
I don't recall. Is Lundqvist close with Karlsson? Any recruitment by the Scandinavian guys now spread throughout the system?

Is this why the team stock piled D men prospects?

Anybody ok with dealing some prospects for a signed Karlsson and Ryan?

What do people think it would take? If you're absolutely against trading for him (signed to an extension of course), how about signing him if he makes it to UFA?

josh
07-09-2018, 05:03 PM
Skjei, Spooner/Hayes/Names, 1st

Dunny
07-09-2018, 05:31 PM
Take Hayes out of that and I'm down.

josh
07-09-2018, 07:44 PM
Take Hayes out of that and I'm down.

When we have Spooner and/or Namestnikov, plus Chytil, Andersson, I won’t let Hayes hold up a trade for a guy like Karlsson.

RodrigueGabriel
07-09-2018, 08:40 PM
I keep thinking that getting Karlsson essentially wastes 2-3 years of top dollar, foregoes a potential #1, and just proves the Rangers can't resist a superstar that may have crested the hill. But he would be that great example/teacher for the lads, could provide moral support for Hank through the trough, and none of those pieces is so golden that we couldn't lose it. I guess you don't get one like him very often.

Sod16
07-09-2018, 08:50 PM
I don't know about his injury status and whether he's going to be the same, but if Karlsson could take Ottawa's rump squad to the second overtime period in the seventh game of the conference finals, he could do quite a lot with the Rangers. Are the Rangers now a worse team than Ottawa, outside of Karlsson, was last year?

josh
07-09-2018, 08:54 PM
I keep thinking that getting Karlsson essentially wastes 2-3 years of top dollar, foregoes a potential #1, and just proves the Rangers can't resist a superstar that may have crested the hill. But he would be that great example/teacher for the lads, could provide moral support for Hank through the trough, and none of those pieces is so golden that we couldn't lose it. I guess you don't get one like him very often.

No question.

Have to take into account how quick the rebuild will be, how long you think Karlsson will stay “in his prime” ( or current state), and how long you think he’ll be an effective defenseman after that.

How management answers those questions will determine how they will proceed, but I’m not sure they want give up the necessary pieces to acquire him.

NYR2711
07-10-2018, 03:59 PM
Just saw that Montreal might be looking to move Max Pac, wouldn’t mind him here.

rmc51
07-10-2018, 06:49 PM
Just saw that Montreal might be looking to move Max Pac, wouldn’t mind him here.

I would. Hes going to get a nice big contract and almost 30. On top of that he would cost assets to acquire. About the complete opposite from what the team is doing.

Respecttheblue
07-10-2018, 06:57 PM
IMO Karlsson and/or Max Pac are a step backwards toward the quick fix mentality that got us into a demise worthy of a "Fire Sale" in the first place.
Montreal is in the same situation, and Ottawa is being proactive to avoid the NYR burning dumpster fire fate.

Why step forward only to repeat the mistakes of the all too recent past?

No thank you. Maybe review with younger FA's in a few (optimistic) years when we are perhaps thinking about going deep again.

ThirtyONE
07-10-2018, 10:26 PM
Just saw that Montreal might be looking to move Max Pac, wouldn’t mind him here.

Seems like every "name" player that's mentioned, someone has this same response.

In no way does Pacioretty make sense for the Rangers. Huge price tag of young assets for a player who's on the back end of his career. It's the opposite of what's going on here.

Dunny
07-10-2018, 11:02 PM
What about taking on Ryan's AND Cally's contracts?

Tampa Sends Sergachev+ B lister/Picks to Ottawa; Tampa sends a useful piece (TBD) to New York + Guarantees 1st; Ottawa sends Formenton to New York; New York sends a 2nd to Ottawa

rmc51
07-10-2018, 11:26 PM
What about taking on Ryan's AND Cally's contracts?

Tampa Sends Sergachev+ B lister/Picks to Ottawa; Tampa sends a useful piece (TBD) to New York + Guarantees 1st; Ottawa sends Formenton to New York; New York sends a 2nd to Ottawa

Doesnt sound like itd be enough for NYR to do that, or enough for Ottawa to trade Karlsson. A guaranteed 1st/Formenton/TBD from TB probably gets me to bite on taking back Callahan (without losing a 2nd rounder either). No way I take Ryan also for that.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 08:56 AM
What about taking on Ryan's AND Cally's contracts?

Tampa Sends Sergachev+ B lister/Picks to Ottawa; Tampa sends a useful piece (TBD) to New York + Guarantees 1st; Ottawa sends Formenton to New York; New York sends a 2nd to Ottawa

Dunny you are going to hate this but... I love it! Was thinking the exact same thing. Ottawa wants something else. Tampa can't take Ryan. We take Ryan and Cally.

So we get Formenton and we need two pieces from Tampa. Here are fair pieces for the Rangers, though I doubt Tampa chooses 2,3, or 4:
1. Auto upgrade pick to a first.
2. Anthony Cirelli
3. Cal Foote
4. Yanni Gourde (this would save Tampa $)
5. Boris Katchouk
6. Taylor Raddysh

MC51, Bobby Ryan is not the worst guy or contract to take on. And he isn't slow and poison like Lucic We get 3 new legit pieces for our future and decent character, for cap space. Have you found a better use of our cap space yet?

Future
07-11-2018, 09:20 AM
What about taking on Ryan's AND Cally's contracts?

Tampa Sends Sergachev+ B lister/Picks to Ottawa; Tampa sends a useful piece (TBD) to New York + Guarantees 1st; Ottawa sends Formenton to New York; New York sends a 2nd to Ottawa
I don't hate it, but I think that would really depend on what (TBD) ends up being lol.

Effectively adding Formenton AND Raddysh/Katchouk for Bobby Ryan would be a good deal for the Rangers. Cally gets you the pick, basically, but that's fine because his contract isn't prohibitive in the future.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 09:57 AM
I don't hate it, but I think that would really depend on what (TBD) ends up being lol.

Effectively adding Formenton AND Raddysh/Katchouk for Bobby Ryan would be a good deal for the Rangers. Cally gets you the pick, basically, but that's fine because his contract isn't prohibitive in the future.

Well, do you object to any of the six TBD's suggested?

rmc51
07-11-2018, 10:15 AM
Just because you have cap space this season doesn't mean you should commit to 4 years of a junk contract. I'd like to think in 2 years we would be in a position where adding a good UFA or two would put us in a position to be competitive. I don't want Bobby Ryan to prevent us from doing so. The return has to be excellent to consider it. An upgrade from a conditional 1st/2nd to a guaranteed 1st...which will be a later first...a nd 1-2 decent prospects is not good enough to me for both Callahan and Ryan.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 10:27 AM
Just because you have cap space this season doesn't mean you should commit to 4 years of a junk contract. I'd like to think in 2 years we would be in a position where adding a good UFA or two would put us in a position to be competitive. I don't want Bobby Ryan to prevent us from doing so. The return has to be excellent to consider it. An upgrade from a conditional 1st/2nd to a guaranteed 1st...which will be a later first...a nd 1-2 decent prospects is not good enough to me for both Callahan and Ryan.

Fair enough, but understand we want and are talking about 2 good prospects, not "1-2 decent ones". Also, a #1 pick even if it is pick #29 is light years better than pick #60. In next years draft, #29 is a real player, pick #60 is almost a longshot to play 200 NHL games.

So overall we are getting 3 good prospects/assets for helping make this trade happen. As you said, Cally is immaterial. It is a homerun and likely won't happen.

rmc51
07-11-2018, 10:44 AM
Fair enough, but understand we want and are talking about 2 good prospects, not "1-2 decent ones". Also, a #1 pick even if it is pick #29 is light years better than pick #60. In next years draft, #29 is a real player, pick #60 is almost a longshot to play 200 NHL games.

So overall we are getting 3 good prospects/assets for helping make this trade happen. As you said, Cally is immaterial. It is a homerun and likely won't happen.

Honestly my only hesitation on Callahan is the grudge I hold against him. His contract and the kind of player he is, is perfect for our current situation.

Future
07-11-2018, 11:01 AM
Well, do you object to any of the six TBD's suggested?
Well the upgrade to the guaranteed first was part of Dunny's, but I don't like Gourde or Foote.

For me to take on both Ryan and Callahan...

Formenton
Katchouk/Raddysh/Cirelli
TB Guaranteed 1st.

I can live with that, but I'm not sending OTT a 2nd.

Slobberknocker
07-11-2018, 11:28 AM
unless we get blown away on the return i'd shy away from taking on dead salary at this point. certainly not for the prospect of helping tampa bay becoming anymore of a power house than they already are.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 11:34 AM
Well the upgrade to the guaranteed first was part of Dunny's, but I don't like Gourde or Foote.

For me to take on both Ryan and Callahan...

Formenton
Katchouk/Raddysh/Cirelli
TB Guaranteed 1st.

I can live with that, but I'm not sending OTT a 2nd.

Fair. Actually perfect.

Well if I must disagree with something, Foote belongs in the Katchouk/Raddysh/Cirelli group. I'd bet Yzerman would be least likely to include Foote out of all the options. Especially if Sergachev is going to Ottawa.

You/we will see soon. Foote is probably a year away and his arrow continues to point up. He has a high floor and a reasonably high ceiling given his size, smarts and now improved skating.

josh
07-11-2018, 11:50 AM
Not taking on a contract unless its coming with a star player or can't miss prospect.

I haven't seen any realistic proposals worthy of taking on the salary of either Ryan or Ryan.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 11:52 AM
unless we get blown away on the return i'd shy away from taking on dead salary at this point. certainly not for the prospect of helping tampa bay becoming anymore of a power house than they already are.

Yeah, but in getting 2 very good prospects (plus Ottawa is getting paid too) we are gutting their future. Add something from Ottawa and man our future is looking bright. What a turnaround in our system and accelerated rebuild. Plus we still have more assets and some vets still to trade.

Future
07-11-2018, 12:07 PM
Fair. Actually perfect.

Well if I must disagree with something, Foote belongs in the Katchouk/Raddysh/Cirelli group. I'd bet Yzerman would be least likely to include Foote out of all the options. Especially if Sergachev is going to Ottawa.

You/we will see soon. Foote is probably a year away and his arrow continues to point up. He has a high floor and a reasonably high ceiling given his size, smarts and now improved skating.
I don't think Foote is a significantly better prospect than any of Hajek, Lindgren, Lundqvist or Miller and Reunanen, Sjalin and Day all have NHL potential, to varying degrees.. Add those 7 to Skjei, Pionk and ADA, and you've got 10 middle/bottom pair defensemen.

The Rangers need gamebreakers and wingers. Foote is neither.

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 12:41 PM
I don't think Foote is a significantly better prospect than any of Hajek, Lindgren, Lundqvist or Miller and Reunanen, Sjalin and Day all have NHL potential, to varying degrees.. Add those 7 to Skjei, Pionk and ADA, and you've got 10 middle/bottom pair defensemen.

The Rangers need gamebreakers and wingers. Foote is neither.

Well yeah he is neither a gamebreaker or winger. Nothing wrong with preferring the other options. Yet, looking for a different type of player is no reason to denigrate his prospects.

There is a reason Foote is more highly valued to Yzerman than any Ranger Dman you mentioned besides Skjei. Foote was off limits to us, Hajek was not. No knock on Hajek, I'm optimistic about him. Foote was selected in the middle of last year's 1st round and so far it looks like a good pick. Dmen who have top 4 written all over them (no red flags) are very highly valued. Your projections seem to undervalue him.

Future
07-11-2018, 01:08 PM
Well yeah he is neither a gamebreaker or winger. Nothing wrong with preferring the other options. Yet, looking for a different type of player is no reason to denigrate his prospects.

There is a reason Foote is more highly valued to Yzerman than any Ranger Dman you mentioned besides Skjei. Foote was off limits to us, Hajek was not. No knock on Hajek, I'm optimistic about him. Foote was selected in the middle of last year's 1st round and so far it looks like a good pick. Dmen who have top 4 written all over them (no red flags) are very highly valued. Your projections seem to undervalue him.
Where did Yzerman say that?

And I didn't denigrate his prospects...he has no more upside than any of the guys I compared him to. Certainly less than Miller. Foote is a high floor, low ceiling pick who has red flags - he's not a great skater and hasn't produced at 5v5. He might not even have been a first rounder this year, last year was a much weaker draft class for defensemen.

The Dude
07-11-2018, 09:00 PM
Definitely need wingers back in return for taking on either of those contracts. The Rangers have about 6,347 D men in the system. Time to stock up on wingers. What do these two teams have to offer?

Giacomin
07-11-2018, 11:13 PM
Definitely need wingers back in return for taking on either of those contracts. The Rangers have about 6,347 D men in the system. Time to stock up on wingers. What do these two teams have to offer?

I named 3 wingers I like. Dunny named one from Ottawa who is a good prospect. There is Tampa's first too, which was also discussed. We've yet to deplete Tampa's stock.

RJWantsTheCup
07-12-2018, 08:45 AM
Unless Tampa & Ottawa are giving us can't miss prospects that aren't bottom pair defensemen or bottom six forwards I rather keep the cap space and not help Tampa get stronger.

Pete
07-12-2018, 09:04 AM
Unless Tampa & Ottawa are giving us can't miss prospects that aren't bottom pair defensemen or bottom six forwards I rather keep the cap space and not help Tampa get stronger.Tampa will be older and less potent by the time we're ready to compete. They can't keep their top talent locked up forever unless significant cap increases happen.

Future
07-12-2018, 09:15 AM
Tampa will be older and less potent by the time we're ready to compete. They can't keep their top talent locked up forever unless significant cap increases happen.
Their top talent is already locked up forever. Stamkos, Kuch, Miller, Killorn, Johnson, Hedman and Mac are already locked up through at least 22-23. Assuming no other roster changes or cap increases, they're ~13.5m under the cap next year with only Point, Sergachev and maybe Stralman to sign.

rmc51
07-12-2018, 09:36 AM
Their top talent is already locked up forever. Stamkos, Kuch, Miller, Killorn, Johnson, Hedman and Mac are already locked up through at least 22-23. Assuming no other roster changes or cap increases, they're ~13.5m under the cap next year with only Point, Sergachev and maybe Stralman to sign.

Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders.

Future
07-12-2018, 10:05 AM
Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders.
Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take.

But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now.

Long live the King
07-12-2018, 10:14 AM
Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take.

But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now.

Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year.

Future
07-12-2018, 10:35 AM
Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year.
Eh, I don't buy that. He can play 20:00 on the second pair for another 4-5 years easily.

Long live the King
07-12-2018, 10:43 AM
with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M

Future
07-12-2018, 10:45 AM
with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M
Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman.

Pete
07-12-2018, 10:49 AM
And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman.

I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years.

Long live the King
07-12-2018, 11:00 AM
Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman.

So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years.

Future
07-12-2018, 11:25 AM
So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years.
Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said.

All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant.

And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case.

Long live the King
07-12-2018, 11:31 AM
Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said.

All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant.

And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case.

It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan.

Future
07-12-2018, 11:33 AM
And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman.

I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years.
In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup:

JTM - Stamkos - Kuch
Palat - Point - Johnson
Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn
Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh

Hedman - Sergachev
Mac - Stralman
Dotchin - Foote

Vasilevsky
Domingue

That's better than what they rolled out this year.

Future
07-12-2018, 11:35 AM
It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan.
We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes.

And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys.

Pete
07-12-2018, 11:43 AM
In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup:

JTM - Stamkos - Kuch
Palat - Point - Johnson
Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn
Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh

Hedman - Sergachev
Mac - Stralman
Dotchin - Foote

Vasilevsky
Domingue

That's better than what they rolled out this year.

What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7?

Pete
07-12-2018, 11:46 AM
We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes.

And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys.

How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21...

Future
07-12-2018, 11:54 AM
What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7?
It's easy.

In 21-22, with

Point - 8
Gourde - 5
Serg - 6
Vas - 7
Foote - 5
Katchouk - 3
Raddysh - 3
Cirelli - 3

They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point.

Future
07-12-2018, 11:55 AM
How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21...
"If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly."

NYR2711
07-12-2018, 04:14 PM
It's easy.

In 21-22, with

Point - 8
Gourde - 5
Serg - 6
Vas - 7
Foote - 5
Katchouk - 3
Raddysh - 3
Cirelli - 3

They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point.

Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season.

Future
07-12-2018, 04:17 PM
Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season.
Good point. Also expansion to consider.

CBA ends in 2022 but I think they can terminate before then.

Pete
07-13-2018, 01:34 AM
"If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly."Just when I think you can't possibly go more out of context, you've got a gem like this.

The Dude
07-13-2018, 08:14 PM
I named 3 wingers I like. Dunny named one from Ottawa who is a good prospect. There is Tampa's first too, which was also discussed. We've yet to deplete Tampa's stock.

I forget. Does Tampa already have the cap space to take on Karlsson? And are they looking for an extension? Wouldn't they have to clear more cap space for that? If they are getting a guarantee of Karlsson resigning with them, Tampa is trading the assets that you covet to get Karlsson. Tampa won't have much the Rangers want to make a deal worth it for the Rangers. I highly doubt they will want to trade yet another 1st rounder on top of the conditional one they have going to the Rangers.

What I'm saying is. What is Tampa giving up besides Sergachev to get a signed Karlsson? It's going to have to be another top prospect. I don't know the prospects you listed. I'd imagine you're trying to get their best. I don't think they will be there to be traded.

Giacomin
07-13-2018, 10:19 PM
I forget. Does Tampa already have the cap space to take on Karlsson? And are they looking for an extension? Wouldn't they have to clear more cap space for that? If they are getting a guarantee of Karlsson resigning with them, Tampa is trading the assets that you covet to get Karlsson. Tampa won't have much the Rangers want to make a deal worth it for the Rangers. I highly doubt they will want to trade yet another 1st rounder on top of the conditional one they have going to the Rangers.

What I'm saying is. What is Tampa giving up besides Sergachev to get a signed Karlsson? It's going to have to be another top prospect. I don't know the prospects you listed. I'd imagine you're trying to get their best. I don't think they will be there to be traded.

I can't answer all of this, but I can break down a few things.
For Karlsson, Ottawa wants something like Point or Sergachev, plus Foote or a#1, plus something else of less value. Supposedly, Ottawa is not completely satisfied with current offer, hence the delay. Yzerman is likely holding back on Point and also does not want to part with both young defenders. The #1 may be an issue because of the Ranger's condition.

Regardless of what Ottawa works out with Tampa (or Dallas) there is a need for a team to take on a salary, from the club acquiring Karlsson. The Rangers are one of those teams.

Speculation is that Cally (though maybe Coburn or someone else) would go to a third team. Dunny also suggested helping the trade along by taking on Bobby Ryan, making it more attractive to Ottawa too.

Here are possible returns from Tampa. Choose two.
1. Turn the second rounder into a first.
2. Boris Katchouk - 2016 2nd rounder LW can play C. 6'1 200 lbs - last year 42G 43A in 58, playoffs 19G 18A in 24.
3. Taylor Raddysh - 2016 2nd rounder RW 6'2 210lbs - last year 33G 50A in 58, playoffs 13G 21A in 24.
4. Anthony Cirelli - impressive 21 y/o C who played last 18 reg season games for Tampa with 5G 6A. Somewhat limited minutes in playoffs.
5. Yanni Gourde - 26 year old late-blooming LW, RFA. First full season in Tampa 25G 39A 64P in 82games.

FYI - Tampa's other good forward prospects are Mitchell Stephens, Matteiu Joseph and Alex Volkov.

Dunny suggested Ottawa would add winger Alex Formenton their 2nd rounder from last year (still 18 y/o) who impressed enough to make the team out of camp, but was sent down for playing time. He continued to impress.

So basically we were suggesting taking both Cally and Ryan for 2 of the assets mentioned from Tampa plus Formenton from Ottawa. Obviously we'd have to send a 7th rounder or player to validate the deal. Does that help?

The Dude
07-15-2018, 12:35 AM
I can't answer all of this, but I can break down a few things.
For Karlsson, Ottawa wants something like Point or Sergachev, plus Foote or a#1, plus something else of less value. Supposedly, Ottawa is not completely satisfied with current offer, hence the delay. Yzerman is likely holding back on Point and also does not want to part with both young defenders. The #1 may be an issue because of the Ranger's condition.

Regardless of what Ottawa works out with Tampa (or Dallas) there is a need for a team to take on a salary, from the club acquiring Karlsson. The Rangers are one of those teams.

Speculation is that Cally (though maybe Coburn or someone else) would go to a third team. Dunny also suggested helping the trade along by taking on Bobby Ryan, making it more attractive to Ottawa too.

Here are possible returns from Tampa. Choose two.
1. Turn the second rounder into a first.
2. Boris Katchouk - 2016 2nd rounder LW can play C. 6'1 200 lbs - last year 42G 43A in 58, playoffs 19G 18A in 24.
3. Taylor Raddysh - 2016 2nd rounder RW 6'2 210lbs - last year 33G 50A in 58, playoffs 13G 21A in 24.
4. Anthony Cirelli - impressive 21 y/o C who played last 18 reg season games for Tampa with 5G 6A. Somewhat limited minutes in playoffs.
5. Yanni Gourde - 26 year old late-blooming LW, RFA. First full season in Tampa 25G 39A 64P in 82games.

FYI - Tampa's other good forward prospects are Mitchell Stephens, Matteiu Joseph and Alex Volkov.

Dunny suggested Ottawa would add winger Alex Formenton their 2nd rounder from last year (still 18 y/o) who impressed enough to make the team out of camp, but was sent down for playing time. He continued to impress.

So basically we were suggesting taking both Cally and Ryan for 2 of the assets mentioned from Tampa plus Formenton from Ottawa. Obviously we'd have to send a 7th rounder or player to validate the deal. Does that help?

I don't see it as worth it to take BOTH contracts if that's all they get in return.

Taking on any salary dump essentially gives Tampa a better chance at winning the cup to ensure the conditional pick, it will almost be automatic. IMO it needs to be three of those things. Pick has to be guaranteed no matter what, and Tampa needs to fork over a little more.

Taking on Bobby Ryan's contract is going to hurt. I'm not sure it's worth it at all. Not even for the player Ottawa would be including. Although I could see a Bobby Ryan come back.

Giacomin
07-15-2018, 11:18 AM
I don't see it as worth it to take BOTH contracts if that's all they get in return.

Fine, it is a smaller return to take a short term salary from Tampa. Any of the four Tampa forwards I suggested would be a valuable addition and very worth it, IMO. Getting more may be tough, there are other teams willing to take a short term contract.


Taking on any salary dump essentially gives Tampa a better chance at winning the cup to ensure the conditional pick, it will almost be automatic.

No Cup is close to guaranteed. The expectation should be a 2nd round pick somewhere between 50-61.

If a trade solidifies the pick as a first, that is no throw-in. The certainty to selecting no later than #31, possibly much better, has a lot of value to both Tampa and us.

Lastly, Cally was strong in the 4th line role last playoffs and would be good depth in that role again. Trading for Karlsson is going to be painful for Tampa.


Taking on Bobby Ryan's contract is going to hurt. I'm not sure it's worth it at all. Not even for the player Ottawa would be including. Although I could see a Bobby Ryan come back.

Ryan is not a poison or a liability on the ice, like Lucic and others. His contract is the main issue, not age, selfishness, speed or skill. He's good enough to be a contributor on a third line or a staple for young kids to grow with on any 4th line. Even on a roster loaded with talent, which we are not. Last year he was playing well again until the unfortunate breaks in his hand. He's had time to now heal, which probably eliminates that as an issue.

Bottom line, I still want two of those assets to take on Ryan. That is not cheap. Another for Cally. Thus, 3 for both.

Slobberknocker
07-16-2018, 06:38 PM
call me silly but why do i want/have to trade for karlson now. i'd roll the dice and look at him on a deadline deal. rumors are he's banged up and not the same player. second why am i giving up the farm for him? not like theres any chance he stays in ottawa.

Phil in Absentia
07-16-2018, 06:44 PM
call me silly but why do i want/have to trade for karlson now. i'd roll the dice and look at him on a deadline deal. rumors are he's banged up and not the same player. second why am i giving up the farm for him? not like theres any chance he stays in ottawa.

Because if you really want him, your best chance of landing him is to trade for him and extend him before free agency. Too few big fish ever make it to market to bank on that as a reliable strategy.


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paddynyc
07-19-2018, 01:22 PM
Is there deadline on which the Rangers must resolve their RFA's (Hayes, Skjei and Spooner) ?

Long live the King
07-19-2018, 01:45 PM
Is there deadline on which the Rangers must resolve their RFA's (Hayes, Skjei and Spooner) ?

Arbitration dates:

Skjei - 7/31
Hayes - 8/2
Spooner - 8/4

ThirtyONE
07-19-2018, 04:19 PM
Arbitration dates:

Skjei - 7/31
Hayes - 8/2
Spooner - 8/4

I'm going to bet Hayes goes to arbitration, Skjei signs a 4-5 year deal, and Spooner gets something similar to Vlad.

Future
07-19-2018, 04:28 PM
I'm going to bet Hayes goes to arbitration, Skjei signs a 4-5 year deal, and Spooner gets something similar to Vlad.
That wouldn't surprise me.

Giacomin
07-19-2018, 08:19 PM
I'm going to bet Hayes goes to arbitration, Skjei signs a 4-5 year deal, and Spooner gets something similar to Vlad.

i think Skjei and Hayes get 5 year deals, would prefer 6 on Skjei. Four would kinda suck. Hayes' ask was reasonable. No reason for arb with any of them.

josh
07-19-2018, 08:25 PM
Bridge Skjei! Such a wild card. Can’t commt to 6 seasons when you have clue what you are signing up for.

rmc51
07-19-2018, 08:47 PM
Bridge Skjei! Such a wild card. Can’t commt to 6 seasons when you have clue what you are signing up for.

This. If he turns into a top pairing guy then great. I'd rather pay him 7x7 at the end of the bridge, than have him flop on a 6x5 kind of deal.

ThirtyONE
07-19-2018, 09:41 PM
I agree. Pay for what he's worth, not what you hope he becomes. Last season he was arguably the worst defender on the team.

pws85nyr
07-19-2018, 10:36 PM
Bridge makes sense. He was really bad last year, and with a young team moving forward we are going to have the cap space if he earns a big deal. Rather overpay for a great player than take another anchor like Redden, Girardi, Staal, Smith et al (contractually I mean).


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Pete
07-20-2018, 07:10 AM
The entire defense was really bad last year.

I'd lock him long term as he's likely to come in at a more reasonable tag due to his sub par year.

Vodka Drunkenski
07-20-2018, 07:53 AM
The entire defense was really bad last year.

I'd lock him long term as he's likely to come in at a more reasonable tag due to his sub par year.

I agree, it will be an unbelievably great bargain down the road. He’s going to be a top pair defenseman

Puck Head
07-20-2018, 12:03 PM
The entire defense was really bad last year.

I'd lock him long term as he's likely to come in at a more reasonable tag due to his sub par year.

This.
His pedigree and age fit well with the long term plans of this team.
Many of our bridge contracts came back to bite us on the next contract


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ThirtyONE
07-20-2018, 01:34 PM
This.
His pedigree and age fit well with the long term plans of this team.
Many of our bridge contracts came back to bite us on the next contract


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No, it was the deal AFTER the bridge that bit us on the ass. Girardi, Staal, Callahan. Were all paid way too much for too long, and most of us knew that the day those deals were signed. If Skjei becomes a star, I don't mind paying star money.

Puck Head
07-20-2018, 01:36 PM
No, it was the deal AFTER the bridge that bit us on the ass. Girardi, Staal, Callahan. Were all paid way too much for too long, and most of us knew that the day those deals were signed. If Skjei becomes a star, I don't mind paying star money.

We didn’t leverage properly on the bridge contracts.
Same with Stepan and others. We were up against the cap and bridging players to save short term cap.
The next contracts were cutting into UFA Years primarily and we paid market value.


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Long live the King
07-20-2018, 01:48 PM
No, it was the deal AFTER the bridge that bit us on the ass. Girardi, Staal, Callahan. Were all paid way too much for too long, and most of us knew that the day those deals were signed. If Skjei becomes a star, I don't mind paying star money.

Umm, that's exactly the point. Its way better to pay $4.5 million per season for 24 to 29/30 year old Skjei, than it is to pay $7+ million per season for 27 to 34 year old Skjei.

josh
07-20-2018, 01:51 PM
I dont think "bridge" was the issue with those contracts.
We overpay by 1-m for short contracts, and 1.5 - 2m on longer contracts. I don't see a correlation between bridge vs non.

Zuccarello might have the best contract and his went 2y, 1y, 1y, 4y
Kreider was bridged for 2years
Boyle was bridged.
Short contracts worked out when it came to Del Zotto, Prucha, Gilroy, Hagelin, Avery, Prust, etc

josh
07-20-2018, 01:52 PM
Umm, that's exactly the point. Its way better to pay $4.5 million per season for 24 to 29/30 year old Skjei, than it is to pay $7+ million per season for 27 to 34 year old Skjei.

I'd much rather pay a #1 $7m than a #5 5m.

Long live the King
07-20-2018, 02:04 PM
I'd much rather pay a #1 $7m than a #5 5m.

Except 3 years from now, if he is a #1, it will cost a lot more than $7M. If you bridge all your players and only sign them after they become the stars your'e looking for, then you won't be able to afford them all.

josh
07-20-2018, 02:07 PM
You cant afford them all when none are stars.

I dont mind risking to pay for performance in the future.

Long live the King
07-20-2018, 02:08 PM
You cant afford them all when none are stars.

I dont mind risking to pay for performance in the future.

risking to pay for performance in the future = buying UFA years instead of bridging

josh
07-20-2018, 02:49 PM
risking to pay for performance in the future = buying UFA years instead of bridging

My preference is to pay more for a sure thing rather than pay more years and hope it ends up being good the last season.

Giacomin
07-20-2018, 02:57 PM
I dont think "bridge" was the issue with those contracts.
We overpay by 1-m for short contracts, and 1.5 - 2m on longer contracts. I don't see a correlation between bridge vs non.

Zuccarello might have the best contract and his went 2y, 1y, 1y, 4y
Kreider was bridged for 2years
Boyle was bridged.
Short contracts worked out when it came to Del Zotto, Prucha, Gilroy, Hagelin, Avery, Prust, etc

Bah, sounds like doctrine. Teams need to be able to scout their talent properly and make decent projections. Make good decisions, buy low when you can. Paying players till their 29 or 30 is much better than 28-34. PK Subban's bridge was one of many disasters.

Those other bridges didn't all work out. The Hags and Prust bridge deals were a disaster and they were 3rd and 4th liners.

How many high priced free agents league wide, worked out last year? How about the year before? Or before that?

Conversely, check out some of those contracts where UFA years were bought. They already look like bargain deals.

pws85nyr
07-20-2018, 03:37 PM
I agree with Josh and ThirtyONE on this one. I get the argument, but based on past contracts handed out, I'm fine paying more in 2 years for a true #1/2. We'll have the cap space. The cost is more but the risk of a bad contract is far less. If we pay now you need to be confident it turns out like Morgan Reilly's deal, and I'm not convinced about that yet, hence my preference for a bridge.


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Pete
07-20-2018, 03:39 PM
My preference is to pay more for a sure thing rather than pay more years and hope it ends up being good the last season.The only sure thing you're paying for in that scenario is a declining player.

josh
07-20-2018, 04:38 PM
The only sure thing you're paying for in that scenario is a declining player.

Isn't that what you are proposing ?

Pete
07-20-2018, 04:49 PM
Isn't that what you are proposing ?

Signing a 24 year old through 30 rather than a 26 year old though 34? No, not even close.

For a long time you were one of the only people who understood the difference between a bad player and a player having a bad season. Please don't lose that perspective. :)

josh
07-20-2018, 04:54 PM
Signing a 24 year old through 30 rather than a 26 year old though 34? No, not even close.

For a long time you were one of the only people who understood the difference between a bad player and a player having a bad season. Please don't lose that perspective. :)
why the extra seasons?

I think he had a bad season, yes. But I'm also not as high on him as others think. I really do think this is a make-or-break year for him. He's either going to be a good #3 (his ceiling) or an overpaid 4/5 guy. The difference in cap hit could be 6.9 vs 4.

And same with Zibanejad, sure, good young players, potential... but you don't overpay a guy because the rest of your team sucks.


Honestly, I don't think they will bridge him. And I also think they'll overpay him.

Pete
07-20-2018, 04:56 PM
why the extra seasons?

I think he had a bad season, yes. But I'm also not as high on him as others think. I really do think this is a make-or-break year for him. He's either going to be a good #3 (his ceiling) or an overpaid 4/5 guy. The difference in cap hit could be 6.9 vs 4.

And same with Zibanejad, sure, good young players, potential... but you don't overpay a guy because the rest of your team sucks.


Honestly, I don't think they will bridge him. And I also think they'll overpay him.If he's a good #3 it's because you signed a stud #1 and Shatty is on the right side.

josh
07-20-2018, 04:58 PM
I dont see him turning into a "good" 1 or 2.
And if he does, I dont mind paying him in 2 seasons.

He's another middle-tier player that will get paid like he's more. I've been saying all summer we have to be careful with these. They are about to repeat what we say with the last 2 core.

Fatfrancesa
07-20-2018, 05:03 PM
Signing a 24 year old through 30 rather than a 26 year old though 34? No, not even close.

For a long time you were one of the only people who understood the difference between a bad player and a player having a bad season. Please don't lose that perspective. :)

Who are the others capable of understanding?

josh
07-20-2018, 05:04 PM
Who are the others capable of understanding?

there was another guy.

before you were born.

Pete
07-20-2018, 05:06 PM
why the extra seasons?

I think he had a bad season, yes. But I'm also not as high on him as others think. I really do think this is a make-or-break year for him. He's either going to be a good #3 (his ceiling) or an overpaid 4/5 guy. The difference in cap hit could be 6.9 vs 4.

And same with Zibanejad, sure, good young players, potential... but you don't overpay a guy because the rest of your team sucks.


Honestly, I don't think they will bridge him. And I also think they'll overpay him.If he's a good #3 it's because you signed a stud #1 and Shatty is on the right side.

Fatfrancesa
07-20-2018, 05:44 PM
there was another guy.

before you were born.

How old do you think I am?

josh
07-20-2018, 05:53 PM
If he's a good #3 it's because you signed a stud #1 and Shatty is on the right side.

He might be forced to play on the top line the next season or so, but he’s not a 1 or 2, and he shouldn’t be paid like it unless he plays like it.

josh
07-20-2018, 05:54 PM
How old do you think I am?

September 17/m/NYC

rmc51
07-20-2018, 06:09 PM
Signing a 24 year old through 30 rather than a 26 year old though 34? No, not even close.

For a long time you were one of the only people who understood the difference between a bad player and a player having a bad season. Please don't lose that perspective. :)

Would you rather sign a 26 through 34 year old or resigning a 30 year old to big money?

Pete
07-20-2018, 06:10 PM
Would you rather sign a 26 through 34 year old or resigning a 30 year old to big money?

Why would we have to resign him? Pipeline, baby. In 6 years one of the D we drafted last year or this year or next year will slot up.

Same thing we did with McD, really.

Giacomin
07-20-2018, 06:58 PM
Typical good performing UFA usually around 27, maybe 28 usually seeks that 7-8 year contract with bidding war.

Typical good RFA anywhere from 23-25 y/o and gets lesser $ and 4-6 years. No bidders.

Which longer term contract would you rather your team sign. How have fans and GMs not learned this?

josh
07-20-2018, 07:08 PM
I sign the better player

Giacomin
07-20-2018, 07:14 PM
I agree with Josh and ThirtyONE on this one. I get the argument, but based on past contracts handed out, I'm fine paying more in 2 years for a true #1/2. We'll have the cap space. The cost is more but the risk of a bad contract is far less. If we pay now you need to be confident it turns out like Morgan Reilly's deal, and I'm not convinced about that yet, hence my preference for a bridge.


What you and Josh and others are missing is it is not just the money. It is the term and when the term starts. A real #1/#2 UFA will want 8 years from us and that starts 2 years later because of your bridge deal. So 10 years and because of bidders, a much higher AAV. You also now have the player for alll those declining years in the 30's and more injury risk.

RFA is gonna be 6 years at most, likely 5. Contract is reasonable and all prime years, thus easy to trade.

You mentioned Reilly, but man was Hamonic sought after. What about the bargains on Ryan Ellis or Roman Josi? McD was a bargain and we were off the hook just as his game dips. There are so many examples and these are the most tradeable players in the league.

Giacomin
07-20-2018, 07:22 PM
I sign the better player

So you sign John Carlsson to that 8 year deal or Skjei for a 5 x 4.8?

josh
07-20-2018, 07:31 PM
Carlson wasn’t bridged.

If so, he’d probably be at 5m for another 2 or 3 seasons.

Giacomin
07-20-2018, 07:50 PM
why the extra seasons?

I think he had a bad season, yes. But I'm also not as high on him as others think. I really do think this is a make-or-break year for him. He's either going to be a good #3 (his ceiling) or an overpaid 4/5 guy. The difference in cap hit could be 6.9 vs 4.

Yeah we are not talking apples to apples. I'm in the bad year camp because we saw his skills on full display for his partial rookie year and his first full year. Skills and attributes like puck handling, passing, can go coast-to-coast, quick first step, gap control, knows his angles, good using leverage in front, speed, anticipation, strength, size and good offensive instinct.

You are not seeing or remembering the potential I am. Sometimes guys make mistakes, have a tough stretch. Not unusual that a very bad team, broken/no D system and a weak D partner exacerbates the mistakes. No one defending looks good.

Skjei was solid enough to be drafted in the 1st. He progressed consistently and quickly before joining the Rangers. If we sign him for 5 years at 4.8 to 5 mil is that a big overpay to you?


And same with Zibanejad, sure, good young players, potential... but you don't overpay a guy because the rest of your team sucks.

No one said to overpay Skjei or Zib because the rest of the team sucks. And Zibs contract will be fine if he keeps his head.

josh
07-20-2018, 07:59 PM
Great year (as a third pair)
Horrible season (as a 2nd pair, worse on the top pair)

I think he’ll be somewhere between, and I hope he turns into a good #3 dman. But we don’t know yet. Which is why I don’t want to pay yet.

rmc51
07-20-2018, 10:19 PM
Why would we have to resign him? Pipeline, baby. In 6 years one of the D we drafted last year or this year or next year will slot up.

Same thing we did with McD, really.

If Skjei proves worthy of a 6 year contract and lives up to his potential, he'll probably be an anchor on the blueline for us. That's not usually something you can just lose, especially since we should be a competitive team by then.

I'll take the bridge for the next 2 years, see how he does. If he's good, a 6-8 yr contract should be no problem. If he's not, you don't have another 4 years tied up into him.

With a rebuilding team, nothing should be handed out. You don't want to come back in 2 years and have a potential problem contract on your hands. This conversation would be much different if he was half as good as McD was when he got his contract.

Vodka Drunkenski
07-20-2018, 10:35 PM
September 17/m/NYC

This deserves to be in the revealing age thread

josh
07-20-2018, 10:45 PM
I wish I knew how to “slide into DMs”

Pete
07-20-2018, 11:10 PM
If Skjei proves worthy of a 6 year contract and lives up to his potential, he'll probably be an anchor on the blueline for us. That's not usually something you can just lose, especially since we should be a competitive team by then.

I'll take the bridge for the next 2 years, see how he does. If he's good, a 6-8 yr contract should be no problem. If he's not, you don't have another 4 years tied up into him.

With a rebuilding team, nothing should be handed out. You don't want to come back in 2 years and have a potential problem contract on your hands. This conversation would be much different if he was half as good as McD was when he got his contract.I think he's already proven his worth.

rmc51
07-20-2018, 11:14 PM
I think he's already proven his worth.

You didn't watch much hockey last year did you?

josh
07-20-2018, 11:23 PM
Let’s get ready to ruuuuuummmmbbbbbllllllleeeee!!!!!!

Pete
07-21-2018, 06:08 AM
Let’s get ready to ruuuuuummmmbbbbbllllllleeeee!!!!!!Remember when I was saying people don't understand the difference between a bad player and a player who had a bad year? Now you know what I mean.

josh
07-21-2018, 08:43 AM
Dumba re-signs for 5 years, 6m AAV

rmc51
07-21-2018, 10:35 AM
Remember when I was saying people don't understand the difference between a bad player and a player who had a bad year? Now you know what I mean.

Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.

Pete
07-21-2018, 02:08 PM
Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

rmc51
07-21-2018, 02:21 PM
Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

Sorry. Don't buy into that nonsense as a blanket for all players. If you do, that's fine. I expect that.

Pete
07-21-2018, 02:40 PM
Sorry. Don't buy into that nonsense as a blanket for all players. If you do, that's fine. I expect that.This is what someone who doesn't really have a point posts.

Have a good weekend.

rmc51
07-21-2018, 02:50 PM
This is what someone who doesn't really have a point posts.

Have a good weekend.

Read your canned responses :rofl:

Have a wonderful weekend!

Puck Head
07-21-2018, 02:52 PM
Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

I’d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.
One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

It was a mess from top to bottom.


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Pete
07-21-2018, 02:59 PM
I’d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.
One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

It was a mess from top to bottom.


Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92212)Now now, be careful. You're making sense and not falling in line with the narrative.

rmc51
07-21-2018, 03:37 PM
I’d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.
One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

It was a mess from top to bottom.


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You can't. That's why you don't give him a 6 year contract.

Puck Head
07-21-2018, 03:38 PM
You can't. That's why you don't give him a 6 year contract.

I have to disagree


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RodrigueGabriel
07-21-2018, 03:47 PM
Unless the coaches who worked him in practice day in and day out last year saw a major change in his mind (loss of confidence, drop in commitment, etc.) or his body (reduced energy, speed, eyesight problems, etc.; whatever the D-man equivalent is of losing 7 mph off your fastball.) that caused them to say "we may not have what we thought we had," then I think you proceed as if he had a bump in the road and sign him for at least 4. If you think there was a fundamental change in the product and you think he could be on a permanent plateau or downward trajectory, then you bridge. I haven't heard about any big crisis of either with Skjei, but I'm all armchair.

Fatfrancesa
07-21-2018, 05:00 PM
I would think most could at least see both arguments here. Bridge or lock up.

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 01:28 PM
Unless the coaches who worked him in practice day in and day out last year saw a major change in his mind (loss of confidence, drop in commitment, etc.) or his body (reduced energy, speed, eyesight problems, etc.; whatever the D-man equivalent is of losing 7 mph off your fastball.) that caused them to say "we may not have what we thought we had," then I think you proceed as if he had a bump in the road and sign him for at least 4. If you think there was a fundamental change in the product and you think he could be on a permanent plateau or downward trajectory, then you bridge. I haven't heard about any big crisis of either with Skjei, but I'm all armchair.

Excellent, excellent. Please stick around this forum, we all benefit from your perspective and temperament.

You hit the heart of the issue. Spending every day with a player is very conducive to assessing abilities, especially against his peers. For instance, player X has the hardest shot from the point, player Y the most accurate. This guy is fastest on the backcheck, this guy retrieves the puck effectively and moves it forward most efficiently, etc. There are thousands of elements to self scout. Familiarity should make the coaches impeccable experts.

Even the players will arrive at many similar conclusions. Everyone is usually making hundreds of comparisons during practice, unconsciously. It is critical that the coaches don't just file the info internally, but overshare with mgmt. This is one of the things some of the older breed of coaches think they are doing enough of, but they are not. ["Coaches coach and mgmt manages."] Thus they just provide a summary for mgmt, ultimately a disservice if one wants the best detailed personnel assessments.

Just watching every single game, we can scout a ton. Brady is clearly the most talented Dman at a number of key skills and sub skills. He also has attributes like speed and size. Young with no red flags. So one would assume the team would want to rebuild around it's best Dman and get him in the fold for 5 years at a manageable salary.

For those thinking bridge, consider this:
1. The Rangers are competitive in 2 years.
2. If you can assume good health for our two best young vet forwards... we basically locked Zib up, but we stand to lose Kreids just when he will be most useful. To keep him might require a 7-8 year overpayment for a power forward who likely starts declining just a couple of years into that big contract.

We fucked up. Again.
Time to stop making the same mistakes over and over.

rmc51
07-22-2018, 02:05 PM
Excellent, excellent. Please stick around this forum, we all benefit from your perspective and temperament.

You hit the heart of the issue. Spending every day with a player is very conducive to assessing abilities, especially against his peers. For instance, player X has the hardest shot from the point, player Y the most accurate. This guy is fastest on the backcheck, this guy retrieves the puck effectively and moves it forward most efficiently, etc. There are thousands of elements to self scout. Familiarity should make the coaches impeccable experts.

Even the players will arrive at many similar conclusions. Everyone is usually making hundreds of comparisons during practice, unconsciously. It is critical that the coaches don't just file the info internally, but overshare with mgmt. This is one of the things some of the older breed of coaches think they are doing enough of, but they are not. ["Coaches coach and mgmt manages."] Thus they just provide a summary for mgmt, ultimately a disservice if one wants the best detailed personnel assessments.

Just watching every single game, we can scout a ton. Brady is clearly the most talented Dman at a number of key skills and sub skills. He also has attributes like speed and size. Young with no red flags. So one would assume the team would want to rebuild around it's best Dman and get him in the fold for 5 years at a manageable salary.

For those thinking bridge, consider this:
1. The Rangers are competitive in 2 years.
2. If you can assume good health for our two best young vet forwards... we basically locked Zib up, but we stand to lose Kreids just when he will be most useful. To keep him might require a 7-8 year overpayment for a power forward who likely starts declining just a couple of years into that big contract.

We fucked up. Again.
Time to stop making the same mistakes over and over.

This supports a bridge. This is the exact boat you'll be in after a hypothetical 6 year contract to Skjei.

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 02:19 PM
I would think most could at least see both arguments here. Bridge or lock up.

It is understandable that folks may have a different take on a player, especially one who was part of a mistake-filled, poorly performing D. People are often watching the game and the team emotionally and focusing on winning, not on individual evaluations.

There was a lot of bad last year and Skjei was a part of that. Yet, it is important to see what skillset a player brings and what is correctable. The problems in his game are correctable. Some of us did realize we weren't competing fairly early, and did watch mostly to evaluate.

Sidenote: One issue that has not been corrected is that Brady does not have a defensively capable partner to demonstrate his full potential. He'll need that to help neutralize top lines enough to be a winning team.

What I find difficult to understand is why fans want our better players to get to UFA. The good UFAs (or pending UFAs) under 30 are often getting 7/8 year deals, assuring we are on the hook for numerous declining years. These players are also very difficult to trade.

For arguments sake, is 2 x 5 mil really better than 5 x 5? I would argue it is much more risky and much worse. Trading Skjei in the middle of a reasonable 5 year deal will still be easy.

Hard would be the decision to go 7-8 years at 8 mil, when he is 27. Hard would be trying to trade him as a rental next year because we fear losing him as a UFA or fear that kind of term. These hard decisions are avoidable if we are smart up front.

Pete
07-22-2018, 02:29 PM
It is understandable that folks may have a different take on a player, especially one who was part of a mistake-filled, poorly performing D. People are often watching the game and the team emotionally and focusing on winning, not on individual evaluations.

There was a lot of bad last year and Skjei was a part of that. Yet, it is important to see what skillset a player brings and what is correctable. The problems in his game are correctable. Some of us did realize we weren't competing fairly early, and did watch mostly to evaluate.

Sidenote: One issue that has not been corrected is that Brady does not have a defensively capable partner to demonstrate his full potential. He'll need that to help neutralize top lines enough to be a winning team.

What I find difficult to understand is why fans want our better players to get to UFA. The good UFAs (or pending UFAs) under 30 are often getting 7/8 year deals, assuring we are on the hook for numerous declining years. These players are also very difficult to trade.

For arguments sake, is 2 x 5 mil really better than 5 x 5? I would argue it is much more risky and much worse. Trading Skjei in the middle of a reasonable 5 year deal will still be easy.

Hard would be the decision to go 7-8 years at 8 mil, when he is 27. Hard would be trying to trade him as a rental next year because we fear losing him as a UFA or fear that kind of term. These hard decisions are avoidable if we are smart up front.If you look around the league, players with Skjei's skill set are all being locked long term.

It's undeniable that he had a bad year last year. If you're the team, you use that information to drive his price down long term.

It's incredibly short sighted to use that as a reason to bridge him and play over double for an older player on a max term deal.

You can have Skjei 6x$5+ now for 24-30, or in 2 years potentially be looking at 8x$8 for 26-34...makes no sense.

Way market is going, in 2 season he's still tradeable with that cap hit, unless he becomes a total nightmare...which I seriously doubt happens.

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 02:45 PM
This supports a bridge. This is the exact boat you'll be in after a hypothetical 6 year contract to Skjei.

Not really. Kreids will be in his last contract year during his 28 y/o season. Next year. Had we signed him to just the extra 2 years and paid just a bit more, he'd be locked up throgh his 30 y/o season. A 6 year contract locks Skjei up into his 30 y/o season also.

What are we going to do with Kreider next year? Assume he's the post blood clot player and the next two years are his best yet. We have a problem. Just when we are ready to compete, we have to let him go.

We have to have foresight. We will have a pipeline and can replace players at 31 years old. Skjei may have to be replaced at 26-27 if we bridge him. More waste. What a waste.

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 03:05 PM
Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.

We have good discussions, allow me to disagree specifically here.

On its face, this is a decent comparison for various reasons. Here is where it falls apart.

Besides Skjei being an overall much better hockey player with more size and a better skater, consider Skjei really had two very good years with the Rangers, even if one was partial. That partial season he proved his meddle and potential in the playoffs. His first full season he was a very good all year and a stud in the playoffs. That kind of performance two playoffs in a row, proved plenty. Del Zotto did not do that.

The other area it falls apart is with certain abilities. DZ could not skate backwards well and it became a liability Skjei will never face. DZ also got turned around or put out of position quickly due to his lesser ability to defend in the neutral and D zone. DZ would get muscled off the puck in his own zone where Skjei is less susceptible. He also isn't as efficient at moving the puck out when facing the boards. Skjei has better reach and extension which help him in both the O and D zone.

DZ made lots of bad decisions. Some were correctable like getting too deep when possession was in question or when no one was covering for him. He got better at that in Philly, yet still made too many unforced errors. Even last year, Skjei made less of those mistakes and they are even more correctable for him since he demonstrated hockey smarts in the past.

rmc51
07-22-2018, 03:07 PM
Not really. Kreids will be in his last contract year during his 28 y/o season. Next year. Had we signed him to just the extra 2 years and paid just a bit more, he'd be locked up throgh his 30 y/o season. A 6 year contract locks Skjei up into his 30 y/o season also.

What are we going to do with Kreider next year? Assume he's the post blood clot player and the next two years are his best yet. We have a problem. Just when we are ready to compete, we have to let him go.

We have to have foresight. We will have a pipeline and can replace players at 31 years old. Skjei may have to be replaced at 26-27 if we bridge him. More waste. What a waste.

Kreider will have just turned 29 after his contract is expired. Skjei will have just turned 30. It is a 1 year difference. It's not that much different.

Again, these same type of questions you will be asking about Skjei. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, a 2 year deal now would put Skjei at 26 years old and wouldn't he still be RFA status?

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 03:52 PM
If you look around the league, players with Skjei's skill set are all being locked long term.

It's undeniable that he had a bad year last year. If you're the team, you use that information to drive his price down long term.

It's incredibly short sighted to use that as a reason to bridge him and play over double for an older player on a max term deal.

This is a tenet of most successful longterm investors. Said another way, buy value.

Fans or mgmt should not be fearful. Gorton so much as admitted publicly that Skjei is the first player every GMs ask about on the phone. There is a reason for that. Besides Kreids, Zibs, Brady and our top kids, very possible no one else commands much/enough interest. For those of us who were expecting a little more activity, this could be a reason.


You can have Skjei 6x$5+ now for 24-30, or in 2 years potentially be looking at 8x$8 for 26-34...makes no sense.

Way market is going, in 2 season he's still tradeable with that cap hit, unless he becomes a total nightmare... which I seriously doubt happens.

This is what I don't get. Why the fear from fans? He's not going to turn into shit. He's young, big, fast, skilled, mostly fundamentally sound, still learning and zero injury issues. The risk seems real low to me.

Giacomin
07-22-2018, 04:13 PM
Kreider will have just turned 29 after his contract is expired. Skjei will have just turned 30. It is a 1 year difference. It's not that much different.

Again, these same type of questions you will be asking about Skjei. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, a 2 year deal now would put Skjei at 26 years old and wouldn't he still be RFA status?

I thought using a year of his ELC would make him a UFA if he signs a 2 year deal. I could be wrong, maybe someone who is certain can chime in.

As for the "1 year difference", it could be resolved with a 7 year deal, but I doubt that saves anything. It also starts to really add more risk for both sides, though I'd be happy.

We are getting away from main points and reality of the fixed options we are discussing. Skjei for 2 or 3 years (then UFA) likely sucks for the Rangers. Skjei for 9/10 years at a much higher AAV also sucks for the Rangers. Six years feels just right, though may not be best for Brady.

Long live the King
07-22-2018, 04:45 PM
From Skjei's point of view I'd rather sign for 6 years and be guaranteed about $27 million dollars, than 2 years for $8 million. Ya never know when a concussion could end your career. Take the guaranteed cash. If you avoid injuries you'll be able to sign another deal after the 6 years is up and have plenty of money.

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rmc51
07-22-2018, 05:31 PM
From Skjei's point of view I'd rather sign for 6 years and be guaranteed about $27 million dollars, than 2 years for $8 million. Ya never know when a concussion could end your career. Take the guaranteed cash. If you avoid injuries you'll be able to sign another deal after the 6 years is up and have plenty of money.

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Absolutely he'd like to have all of that money guaranteed. It's in his best interest to do that, but he does not have any leverage. Skjei has 3 years before he is 27 and eligible for UFA status. He'll take whatever the Rangers want to do with him (2 years, 6 years, whatever), or he'll get his 1 yr 4-5 mill arbitration deal and go through it again next season (see Jacob Trouba). The Rangers are in the driver's seat here.

What if the decision is between a 2 year 9 mill contract and a 1 year arbitration deal at 4.75 mill (followed by this process again next season and potentially the season after)?

Long live the King
07-22-2018, 10:57 PM
Absolutely he'd like to have all of that money guaranteed. It's in his best interest to do that, but he does not have any leverage. Skjei has 3 years before he is 27 and eligible for UFA status. He'll take whatever the Rangers want to do with him (2 years, 6 years, whatever), or he'll get his 1 yr 4-5 mill arbitration deal and go through it again next season (see Jacob Trouba). The Rangers are in the driver's seat here.

What if the decision is between a 2 year 9 mill contract and a 1 year arbitration deal at 4.75 mill (followed by this process again next season and potentially the season after)?

The leverage he has is that the team wants to get him locked up for as long a term at as low of a cap hit as possible. Trouba is not an example you want to follow. Hold out followed by going to arbitration and taking the arbitrator's deal...he's sure to leave in UFA. That's not how you treat a player you should be building around.

I expect signings this week before we get to arbitration. At least two.

rmc51
07-22-2018, 11:35 PM
The leverage he has is that the team wants to get him locked up for as long a term at as low of a cap hit as possible. Trouba is not an example you want to follow. Hold out followed by going to arbitration and taking the arbitrator's deal...he's sure to leave in UFA. That's not how you treat a player you should be building around.

I expect signings this week before we get to arbitration. At least two.

Well he didn't want to be there (supposedly). So apparently he's content with just arbitration. I'd like to think Skjei wants to be here and will not want to go to arbitration - again giving leverage to the team in negotiations.

Long live the King
07-23-2018, 12:11 AM
Content with arbitration? He has no choice. Until he hits UFA and bounces. It's in the teams' best interest to show good faith to the player.

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rmc51
07-23-2018, 12:58 AM
Content with arbitration? He has no choice. Until he hits UFA and bounces. It's in the teams' best interest to show good faith to the player.

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He only had no choice if the Jets never offered him a contract. I'd find that hard to believe.

Fatfrancesa
07-23-2018, 07:36 AM
Trouba held out 2 years ago wanting 6m a year. Not sure how he’s a good example of anything. He’s wanted to forgo his elc and arbitrary years and get right to getting paid. Kind of like Mcdavid. Big difference is he’s not Mcdavid.

rmc51
07-23-2018, 08:31 AM
Not sure how either of you got "Trouba is a good example to follow" out of what I wrote. It was an example of a player with no leverage choosing arbitration rather than whatever contract the team is offering.

RJWantsTheCup
07-25-2018, 08:32 AM
Montour signed for 3.38M for 2 years. Shouldn’t Skjei come in somewhere around that cap hit?


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Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc
07-25-2018, 08:39 AM
Somewhere around that, probably a little higher. Skjei actually had a better first year and has played 169 NHL games vs Montour's 107.

If they for some reason go with 2 years I think he'll get 4m. If they start buying UFA years the AAV will be higher.

RJWantsTheCup
07-25-2018, 12:16 PM
Question then is Skjei as good as his first season or as bad as last season? I’m thinking somewhere in between which should be around 4M a season?


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paddynyc
07-27-2018, 09:58 AM
Question then is Skjei as good as his first season or as bad as last season? I’m thinking somewhere in between which should be around 4M a season?


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It like what we saw with Kevin Hayes and I'm expecting more of what we saw of the first year with Sjkei

GordonGecko
09-05-2018, 09:45 AM
Hockey at MSG in 2 weeks

tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick

Ozzy
09-05-2018, 10:52 AM
....even bad hockey is still hockey!!!

rangers02
09-06-2018, 04:55 PM
Have it while it's there

josh
09-06-2018, 04:57 PM
....even bad hockey is still hockey!!!

AV hockey!!

CBrowningPI
09-06-2018, 07:15 PM
My taint is all a quiver.

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Ozzy
09-07-2018, 11:01 AM
AV hockey!!

You know to to start my engine!! LOL

Albatross
09-11-2018, 02:06 PM
You know to to start my engine!! LOL

AV called...he wants to hire you as his next assistant

Ozzy
09-11-2018, 02:25 PM
AV called...he wants to hire you as his next assistant

:rofl:

....let me load my sawed off shotgun.....tell him I'll be right over! LOL

Slobberknocker
09-11-2018, 04:04 PM
My taint is all a quiver.

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TMI bro, TMI

josh
09-11-2018, 04:11 PM
Good thing you didnt see the pics before Phil took them down

Albatross
09-12-2018, 02:35 PM
:rofl:

....let me load my sawed off shotgun.....tell him I'll be right over! LOL

your hatred runs deep.

josh
09-22-2018, 08:54 PM
https://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/five-young-rangers-building-a-special-bond/

FIVE YOUNG RANGERS BUILDING A SPECIAL BOND
Lias Andersson, Brett Howden, Ryan Lindgren, Libor Hajek and Filip Chytil discuss how they are forming a relationship with the same goal of making the Rangers better.


Not sure if anyone has seen this. I couldn’t find the entire piece. They showed this during the Flyers preseason game. My wife though got these kids were mentally challenged and won a contest to practice with the team. :rofl:

AliveIn94
09-22-2018, 08:55 PM
Nice PP goal there!

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AliveIn94
09-22-2018, 08:57 PM
Delete

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GordonGecko
09-25-2018, 10:25 AM
My wife though got these kids were mentally challenged and won a contest to practice with the team. :rofl:

https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/photos/290107834/1136x640/cut.jpeg

Gravesy
09-25-2018, 10:49 AM
https://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/five-young-rangers-building-a-special-bond/

FIVE YOUNG RANGERS BUILDING A SPECIAL BOND
Lias Andersson, Brett Howden, Ryan Lindgren, Libor Hajek and Filip Chytil discuss how they are forming a relationship with the same goal of making the Rangers better.


Not sure if anyone has seen this. I couldn’t find the entire piece. They showed this during the Flyers preseason game. My wife though got these kids were mentally challenged and won a contest to practice with the team. :rofl:

Lindgren seems like the kind of guy who spends his free time splitting the atom for shits and giggles.