What is NOT Wrong with the Rangers

If one intends to solve a problem, it is important to properly diagnose it. Attribute the issues to the wrong cause(s) and you'll end up focusing on low impact items while neglecting the areas that truely require addressing.

In attempt to be brief and shape a bigger (yet different) perspective, here is what is NOT wrong with the Rangers. I will follow up with the real issues IMO.

1. Lack of caring or effort - this is becoming fan mantra every time our team is outplayed. Most of our players give a shit and have a solid work ethic. Lots of undeniable good reputations from Hank, Nash, McD, Skjei, Fast, Grabs, Zuc. Then others who's problems do not stem for erratic effort like Miller, Kreids, Vesey Zibs. Sure, it is possible there are a few undisciplined guys or partiers who overdo it, but I am not aware of them. After this season, I hope mgmt ferrets out any slackers and give them a wake up call

2. Lack of character, leadership or toughness/grit - really? The team was plenty tough and gritty in that grueling war against the Habs last year. Plenty of our guys lead by example. The Vet group is solid, youth are trusted slowly and are given nothing. We still have a core of guys who've been through many tough 7 games series. As for the toughness factor, our guys don't make business decisions, block shots and will get in front of the net. Other than that the league is moving away from all unnecessary nonsense. The fighting is rare and there is no longer a need for an enforcer. Do people here really want an Avery? I'll take Gallagher or Zuc instead.

The real issue is speed, style, talent/skill, young jump and being outclassed. Exhibit One was last night. Toronto beat us to open spaces and free pucks. They beat defenders with and w/o the puck. On two of the goals, they zipped in behind the defenders with pure quickness. We no longer play the best speed game (coaching and mgmt to blame), nor are we as fast as Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Pitt, NJ, Winnipeg, Vegas and others in the west. Slow lines and defenders look like they are not trying as hard. When you get beaten to the puck or set back on your heels, it appears you are not pushing hard enough.

Speed and talent are starting to go hand-in-hand in the NHL. We don't put enough talent on the ice for the full game to generate enough strong offense or good chances. Our shots and dangerous opportunities are dropping. Crisp passing happens for only half the team now, the other guys are lacking the skill and vision to move the puck efficiently enough to threaten the opposition's defensive structure. Our transition game only works when you have skill players zipping through areas (in concert with their teammates) able to execute quick effective threatening hockey plays. How does Vesey play that game with Holland and McLoud?

Lastly our coaching is not offering enough to encourage the players to diversify their attack or to play better positional hockey to button up the defense. Adjustments and structural modifications are lacking. This leads to complacency and lack of intensity. Chemistry has become a problem the last 2.5 years. Personnel usage and matchups have been questionable. Early and late goals have been a consistent issue this year and last playoffs.

TL/DR summary:

Instead of more effort, character, leadership and grit...

We need more talent - skill players, speed, youthful jump and fresher/better coaching.

If one intends to solve a problem, it is important to properly diagnose it. Attribute the issues to the wrong cause(s) and you'll end up focusing on low impact items while neglecting the areas that truely require addressing.

 

In attempt to be brief and shape a bigger (yet different) perspective, here is what is NOT wrong with the Rangers. I will follow up with the real issues IMO.

 

1. Lack of caring or effort - this is becoming fan mantra every time our team is outplayed. Most of our players give a shit and have a solid work ethic. Lots of undeniable good reputations from Hank, Nash, McD, Skjei, Fast, Grabs, Zuc. Then others who's problems do not stem for erratic effort like Miller, Kreids, Vesey Zibs. Sure, it is possible there are a few undisciplined guys or partiers who overdo it, but I am not aware of them. After this season, I hope mgmt ferrets out any slackers and give them a wake up call

 

2. Lack of character, leadership or toughness/grit - really? The team was plenty tough and gritty in that grueling war against the Habs last year. Plenty of our guys lead by example. The Vet group is solid, youth are trusted slowly and are given nothing. We still have a core of guys who've been through many tough 7 games series. As for the toughness factor, our guys don't make business decisions, block shots and will get in front of the net. Other than that the league is moving away from all unnecessary nonsense. The fighting is rare and there is no longer a need for an enforcer. Do people here really want an Avery? I'll take Gallagher or Zuc instead.

 

 

The real issue is speed, style, talent/skill, young jump and being outclassed. Exhibit One was last night. Toronto beat us to open spaces and free pucks. They beat defenders with and w/o the puck. On two of the goals, they zipped in behind the defenders with pure quickness. We no longer play the best speed game (coaching and mgmt to blame), nor are we as fast as Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Pitt, NJ, Winnipeg, Vegas and others in the west. Slow lines and defenders look like they are not trying as hard. When you get beaten to the puck or set back on your heels, it appears you are not pushing hard enough.

 

Speed and talent are starting to go hand-in-hand in the NHL. We don't put enough talent on the ice for the full game to generate enough strong offense or good chances. Our shots and dangerous opportunities are dropping. Crisp passing happens for only half the team now, the other guys are lacking the skill and vision to move the puck efficiently enough to threaten the opposition's defensive structure. Our transition game only works when you have skill players zipping through areas (in concert with their teammates) able to execute quick effective threatening hockey plays. How does Vesey play that game with Holland and McLoud?

 

Lastly our coaching is not offering enough to encourage the players to diversify their attack or to play better positional hockey to button up the defense. Adjustments and structural modifications are lacking. This leads to complacency and lack of intensity. Chemistry has become a problem the last 2.5 years. Personnel usage and matchups have been questionable. Early and late goals have been a consistent issue this year and last playoffs.

 

TL/DR summary:

Instead of more effort, character, leadership and grit...

 

We need more talent - skill players, speed, youthful jump and fresher/better coaching.

kinda seems like another veiled shot at the coaching staff again.

I think its hard to say "effort" and "Character" are NOT problems for this team. Theyre probably the biggest 2 problems this team has.

From the begining of the summer, I said the main hole that needed to be filled was a vet with leadership and toughness, so we obviously have completely different views.

NON-Problems for this team:

Youth

draft picks

prospects

a system that allows the best players to play their best game

penalty killing

speed

skill

playmaking abilities

versatile defensemen

forward depth

well rounded players

goalie coach

kinda seems like another veiled shot at the coaching staff again.

Nope, it is a shot at team construction. The need for more skilled players and top-end talent, speed, youth, and the AVs lack of diversity and in-game approach to maximize our skill game.

I think its hard to say "effort" and "Character" are NOT problems for this team. Theyre probably the biggest 2 problems this team has.

You are disagreeing with your own post in another thread saying our biggest problem is that we have no Crosby or Malkin or both. Remember? That is basically my point when I say we need a top-end C and a #1 RD.

As for the effort and character accusations or what you call our two biggest problems, I don't buy it. When our guy gets outplayed, effort is often pointed to as lazy analysis. Who is not giving full effort? Who has a shitty character? Who demonstrates a lack of character on the ice and how often? When Zuc got beat to the slot for a goal last night was it because he was not trying hard enough? How did he just fall asleep and let the scorer get the jump and position? He wasn't sleeping. It was a skill, speed and anticipation play by Toronto.

A main point in this assessment of the Rangers is that fast and skilled teams make us looking like we are not working hard. That is what fast skilled teams do to opponents.

From the begining of the summer, I said the main hole that needed to be filled was a vet with leadership and toughness, so we obviously have completely different views.

You sure have and it would be misplaced use of time and resources and assets. We need a dynamic player. An explosive player who can control play or dominate a play. A top defender on the right who can join the O every rush. Your solution may add a win or two. Focus on top end talent and speed and challenge for the Cup.

NON-Problems for this team:

Youth - no top end D talent in system, no snipers/scorers and no real top-end wingers either

draft picks - we have ours, but not having 5 #1s in a row is part of the current problem

prospects - Chytil, Lias, Shesty, maybe 1 or 2 others eventually make the club

a system that allows the best players to play their best game - the system neglects some of our players strengths like puck carrying Dmen

penalty killing

speed - need more!

skill - need more, you said so yourself

playmaking abilities - DD and Peter Holland are your best playmakers on half your lines

versatile defensemen - Staal is not, Shatty is not, Holden meh

forward depth - Holland, Carey, DD, McCloud is poor depth

well rounded players

goalie coach

Why are you worried about what I said the team needs in another thread when this thread is about the opposite? one is about the current squad, one is moving forward.

top end d in system - not many do. We have a bunch of could-bes, and that's all you can really ask for. We can also send Skjei down to Hartford to say we have him.

prospects - thats a fine bunch, id say. Add Skjei, Buchieboo, and that Russian goalie kid - :cheers: damn, have like 1 more random Fast, Hagelin, Dubinsky, Callahan develop and damn, thats a solid core. not to mention the guys we already have. you can assume 1 or 2 sticks around a few more seasons

speed - sure, we can take more speed. we arent slow, and have some very fast skaters, and play a fast system (when played). but i will always take more speed . but, it is something they do have

playmakers - almost every guy on this squad can make good plays. i think the bigger issue would be lack of finishers (you mentioned, as well)

1. They know how to squeeze every dime they can out of their season ticket holders. It?s an art

2. Their goalie

3. They are loyal with lifetime contracts to FO personal. So loyal that getting results is secondary

4. Their pathetic history makes the current 24 year drought a blip not worth talking about

5. Somehow people including myself have high expectations for this team. So their ability to fool people or at least have stupid people like myself buy season tickets is pretty amazing

6. Their coach is very respectful to the press and in turn the press gives him a pass. Av is very good at coming off as a nice guy.

That?s it for me.

1. They know how to squeeze every dime they can out of their season ticket holders. It’s an art

 

2. Their goalie

 

3. They are loyal with lifetime contracts to FO personal. So loyal that getting results is secondary

 

4. Their pathetic history makes the current 24 year drought a blip not worth talking about

 

5. Somehow people including myself have high expectations for this team. So their ability to fool people or at least have stupid people like myself buy season tickets is pretty amazing

 

6. Their coach is very respectful to the press and in turn the press gives him a pass. Av is very good at coming off as a nice guy.

 

 

 

That’s it for me.

Not fair Fatty, you forgot our goalie coach and the Carnegie Deli sandwiches.

Why are you worried about what I said the team needs in another thread when this thread is about the opposite? one is about the current squad, one is moving forward.

What is this thread about? I should have taken more time to write a better, more succinct OP and thesis. But the thread was motivated by the current squad's issues and what the organiztion needs to spend time and resources fixing. At the same time, I wanted to address the complaints I see so often from Ranger fans that I think are red herrings. The complaints that I hope does not defocus mgmt, so they neglect the real high-impact issues.

The summary probably says it best. To paraphrase:

The real problems are we need more top-end skill players, youthful speed and a system that is more diverse, modern and leverages our squads talents and a multi-faceted speed game.

For example, this is what I don't want: The org to determine we are struggling so they go out and sign an untalented enforcer to add more energy.

This seems to be AV's old standby when we struggle. Instead, AV should have used all-star week to work on adding more diversity to our attack to be harder to defend or modifying the system to accomodate speed in new ways and not be so damn predictable. Do things to emphasize more speed in gameplanning, to drills, to new breakouts and personell utilization. If Letteri and Nieves have a future here, put them in the middle and tell them if they stop moving their feet they will get the Herb Brooks treatment.

Frankly, guys like Holland, MaCloud, etc, should not be on this team. Their game is not going to improve or improve this squad. Their future has no bearing on the Ranger's future. So why bother? Mgmt and the coach need to rethink things immediately. Focus on the real solutions, longer term solutions and improving. Stop falling back on lazy thinking and get out of the box.

If one intends to solve a problem, it is important to properly diagnose it. Attribute the issues to the wrong cause(s) and you'll end up focusing on low impact items while neglecting the areas that truely require addressing.

 

In attempt to be brief and shape a bigger (yet different) perspective, here is what is NOT wrong with the Rangers. I will follow up with the real issues IMO.

 

1. Lack of caring or effort - this is becoming fan mantra every time our team is outplayed. Most of our players give a shit and have a solid work ethic. Lots of undeniable good reputations from Hank, Nash, McD, Skjei, Fast, Grabs, Zuc. Then others who's problems do not stem for erratic effort like Miller, Kreids, Vesey Zibs. Sure, it is possible there are a few undisciplined guys or partiers who overdo it, but I am not aware of them. After this season, I hope mgmt ferrets out any slackers and give them a wake up call

 

2. Lack of character, leadership or toughness/grit - really? The team was plenty tough and gritty in that grueling war against the Habs last year. Plenty of our guys lead by example. The Vet group is solid, youth are trusted slowly and are given nothing. We still have a core of guys who've been through many tough 7 games series. As for the toughness factor, our guys don't make business decisions, block shots and will get in front of the net. Other than that the league is moving away from all unnecessary nonsense. The fighting is rare and there is no longer a need for an enforcer. Do people here really want an Avery? I'll take Gallagher or Zuc instead.

 

 

The real issue is speed, style, talent/skill, young jump and being outclassed. Exhibit One was last night. Toronto beat us to open spaces and free pucks. They beat defenders with and w/o the puck. On two of the goals, they zipped in behind the defenders with pure quickness. We no longer play the best speed game (coaching and mgmt to blame), nor are we as fast as Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Pitt, NJ, Winnipeg, Vegas and others in the west. Slow lines and defenders look like they are not trying as hard. When you get beaten to the puck or set back on your heels, it appears you are not pushing hard enough.

 

Speed and talent are starting to go hand-in-hand in the NHL. We don't put enough talent on the ice for the full game to generate enough strong offense or good chances. Our shots and dangerous opportunities are dropping. Crisp passing happens for only half the team now, the other guys are lacking the skill and vision to move the puck efficiently enough to threaten the opposition's defensive structure. Our transition game only works when you have skill players zipping through areas (in concert with their teammates) able to execute quick effective threatening hockey plays. How does Vesey play that game with Holland and McLoud?

 

Lastly our coaching is not offering enough to encourage the players to diversify their attack or to play better positional hockey to button up the defense. Adjustments and structural modifications are lacking. This leads to complacency and lack of intensity. Chemistry has become a problem the last 2.5 years. Personnel usage and matchups have been questionable. Early and late goals have been a consistent issue this year and last playoffs.

 

TL/DR summary:

Instead of more effort, character, leadership and grit...

 

We need more talent - skill players, speed, youthful jump and fresher/better coaching.

I kinda disagree on a bunch of this.

Caring and effort have doomed this team in the early parts of games THIS season. While last season they screwed up at the end of the games in giving up leads and blowing games.

Character and leadership seems non existent on this team. There's nobody leading by example on the ice. The fucking goalie has to give pep talks to his bench when he is inserted into the game.. The roster has some battle scars from the playoffs and that's good, yet there seems to be a dry vanilla style of play as well as talk from this team's "leaders". There isn't much urgency or willingness to go that extra mile from anyone on this roster. Zucc even looks worn down and beaten in his play.

I agree about skill level. Though I feel they have a few pieces that if put with elite talent, could fringe on top tier status, while others could be complimentary players like they are supposed to be. Zib is a damn good player. I love him when he's on his game. Kreider too. Zucc can be such an asset as well. Obviously Nash is Nash.. These are the guy's you need to add an elite talent to, to get over that bar. To me the Hayes, Miller's, Vesey at role players that can be mixed and matched to be deployed in ways that make the team deeper. But relying on them to be more isn't going to work. Hayes is your "checking line" center. Not your 2nd line center who you depend on for offense.

Soooo, that's kinda why I'm down for bringing in Tavares. Everyone playing in roles that are above their limits are pegged right down to where they need to be. This team could be very competitive RIGHT NOW, with an upgrade of top tier talent.

I trade McD to Toronto. Not just to get that top tier talent, but because I think McD is rapidly falling out of that top tier talent group. Which is fine except he is going to want a raise in two years. I'd certainly love to keep him at his current cost. But that is unlikely.

As for the coaching. I can't disagree. It seems AV has gotten this team as far as he could, but never really made many adjustments to the game plan, and continually makes poor decisions as far as personnel is concerned. His late in game deployment is seriously head scratching. I really feel he has little feel for the pulse of his roster. Meaning both in the locker room and during a game. It's like he's not even watching the same game as far as knowing who's got it going that night. Oh, hell decide a rookie doesn't have it going within the first 8 minutes of the game. Yet continue to play the same stale line of forwards who haven't gotten a shot on goal for two periods and constantly get pinned in their own zone..

Imo a coaching change is the first thing that needs to be done or Can be done. The lack of talent will need to be dealt with by the trade deadline and in the off-season. Get the ball rolling now. I have seen enough. Give that Fatcessa guy what he's been asking for and then some. Mc D? Gone. Zucc? Gone. Miller? Gone. Niedermayer.... DEAD.

 

Frankly, guys like Holland, MaCloud, etc, should not be on this team. Their game is not going to improve or improve this squad. Their future has no bearing on the Ranger's future. So why bother? Mgmt and the coach need to rethink things immediately. Focus on the real solutions, longer term solutions and improving. Stop falling back on lazy thinking and get out of the box.

Agree on McLeod, but Holland could be a decent role player down the line. Find his niche on the lower lines and try to make something out of him. You groom a guy like that into a ok specialist or as a defensive type of forward to shift his career around and he might want to stay because of it. The season almost has that last nail in the coffin. Who else do you want to bring into this nightmare? Does Nieves need to be here to witness the suck, or should he continue to gain confidence in the A?

I WOULD like to see some D men called up, to see how they do when shit is bad. Imo there's no reason why Graves, Gilmore or Pionk shouldn't be given a chance over Kampfer.

BTW the Rangers do have some prospects turning some heads in Jr with Gettinger and Ronning as well as Day.

I kinda disagree on a bunch of this.

Outside the first part (below) it sounds like you agree with almost everything.

Caring and effort have doomed this team in the early parts of games THIS season. While last season they screwed up at the end of the games in giving up leads and blowing games.

As for the end of games the end of last year, no way. Those were personell or coaching issues. Having a slumping Holden and Staal pairing against 6 of the opposition's best, to close a game out, was the problem. Step playing the worst D of his career. The hottest players seeing the least minutes. And Miller and Kreider mysteriously disapearing completely were the other big problems. I don't attribute any of it to effort.

That is the point of the thread. It is the talent and skill and speed and coaching that makes the biggest difference. Holden and Staal seeing huge minutes, let alone at crunch time, is not getting us a Cup. Step was no longer good enough for the role he had. There wasn't enough scoring talent to inflict our will and skill on the Habs and Sens.

Character and leadership seems non existent on this team. There's nobody leading by example on the ice. The fucking goalie has to give pep talks to his bench when he is inserted into the game.. The roster has some battle scars from the playoffs and that's good, yet there seems to be a dry vanilla style of play as well as talk from this team's "leaders". There isn't much urgency or willingness to go that extra mile from anyone on this roster. Zucc even looks worn down and beaten in his play.

Hank trying to wake the boys up and exact a shot of adreniline is great. It is not always an indictment. Every team I've been on always has a few voices to get people going. The Rangers have a Captain. They have Zuc and Hank as vocal leaders. They have Nash who leads by example. Staal is a sage player on the ice and in the locker room. Kreids and Miller can be lively. Fast and Grabs are tremendous "all-out give 100%" players leading with character. We have battle scarred warriors and even our kids like Vesey, Skjei and Buch are tough, serious and somewhat tested.

Is leadership and character really the issue? As many said add Crosby and Malkin and we are a Cup team. Seems like a no duh right? Well how about Schiefele and Trouba instead. Or Marner, Dermott and Zaitsev and have a very high pick in a great draft plus a few other top picks to get the next Skjei or Tarrasenko or Rakell.

This is the fix, not another character player. We need guys to lead with speed and by their explosive play.

The team started the season terribly. Some have yet to snap out of their funk. Kreider was being talked about as trade bait because of how invisible he was. McD is still quite invisible. Miller, Hayes, Nash. They ALL started like shit and with no fire. I don't agree with you at all on that.

The end of games thing. Though those guys Were put there when goals were given up, they didn't fare much better when the "better" players were out there. They were pinned in their own end for most of the last 1/4 of the 3rd period. Coaching is definitely an issue, but there are a bunch of players that get a free ride when blame is being placed. McD especially.

Crosby and Malkin are all world talents. Best in the world. They make teams and players around them better and have done so ever since they stepped on NHL ice. They lead by example. Their example is their ability to play the game better than 99% of the world. If you don't see the difference between them and Trouba (who isn't any better than Skjei) I don't know how else to explain it. Tavares is in the next percentile below the best in the entire world and it's by a tiny margin.

Marner isn't at that level just yet. He and Nylander aren't quite generational talents, but they are very very good. I have no problem adding them for McD or really anything on this roster not named Skjei.

The goalie had to give the team a pep talk. Why isn't McD or Nash or anybody with a letter on their sweater. Why isn't any player going out there and at least attempt to take the puck coast to coast. Someone who puts the team on their back and carry them for at least a few shifts. There are NO examples being made on the ice. There are no big hits. No goalie runs. No shooting at every chance. It's a lot of perimeter, non physical non getting dirty boring weak play that we see from a majority of the roster. That's the identity of the team. Because that's what they are. And it's leadership is going along with it.

I get what you are saying about Crosby and Malkin, of course! But you can't have a strategy based on getting the all-time elite. That is why I mentioned Scheifele and Trouba.

Just go after top line players with speed and explosive scoring/playmaking ability. Add a top RD and a solid young depth defender like Dermott and we will seriously contend. [Obviously few injuries and good coaching assumed].

Marner or Nylander may not be Crosby, but the hope is they turn into a Sakic or a Seguin or a Forsberg or a Guadreau soon. Many feel Trouba will have a career like Duncan Keith. That he's better than Skjei. I'll say they are even. Guess what? You and I are willing to trade most anyone but Skjei. That is why Trouba would be a huge addition here. If we can't get Trouba or someone like him, then find a prospect to trade for or draft one. We need it. We need more players with real upside.

I get what you are saying about Crosby and Malkin, of course! But you can't have a strategy based on getting the all-time elite. That is why I mentioned Scheifele and Trouba.

 

Just go after top line players with speed and explosive scoring/playmaking ability. Add a top RD and a solid young depth defender like Dermott and we will seriously contend. [Obviously few injuries and good coaching assumed].

 

Marner or Nylander may not be Crosby, but the hope is they turn into a Sakic or a Seguin or a Forsberg or a Guadreau soon. Many feel Trouba will have a career like Duncan Keith. That he's better than Skjei. I'll say they are even. Guess what? You and I are willing to trade most anyone but Skjei. That is why Trouba would be a huge addition here. If we can't get Trouba or someone like him, then find a prospect to trade for or draft one. We need it. We need more players with real upside.

Who are you trading for Trouba?

Why the need for two #1 D men? Why waste Skjei paired with Trouba? It's too much. Don't forget Shattenkirk isn't dead.

It seems like you want players that aren't likely to be available, much less available to the Rangers at a cost that you are willing to spend. I don't see the Jets as a trading partner.

How do you "go after top line players with speed and explosive scoring/ playmaking ability"? That isn't available to just go after. What's available at the cost you and I are willing to spend are reclamation projects and players with bad contracts that are under performing. Maybe a Reinhart is attainable for a pick and a roster player. Is a 2nd round pick too much to give up for a player like that?

Players with real upside would be great. Every team wants that. It's hard to get. See every discussion on generational talent for more of the same.

As stated by someone already. Why tear down what they have, just to replace it with the same thing? This team has a bunch of above average players. They need the real deal. They aren't shitty enough to land a lottery pick. Nor will they be.

Sign Tavares Have the best chance at winning within the next 10 years.

Tear it down No guarantee of not being the next Hurricanes or Sabres or Jets or Edmonton...

The Marner/Nylander ideas make way more sense, though I don't think you get their best young defender along with one of the two forwards desired from them. I'm all for a deal with Toronto for one of those guys. I really want that. That's a move I feel they need to make. It adds the talent up front they desperately need.. They essentially replace the role Nash should have as a scorer, for years to come. Im not sure that's enough to be the contender some here are wanting to see.

This team doesn't have anyone who can score from more than 5 feet away from the net.

A lot of other things would fall into place if anybody could shoot with any consistency.