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ThirtyONE
06-29-2016, 07:59 PM
And then in a different sphere are the Rangers, who, The Post has learned, remain in discussions with Viktor Stalberg to keep pending the free-agent winger who emerged as one of the club’s steadiest players down the stretch. At this point, the asking price appears to be too high, but the Blueshirts are working at it.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/29/steven-stamkos-isles-thwarting-megadeal-reveals-nhls-top-gm/

Am I the only person wondering why? What does he bring to the team?

EDIT: fucked up the title. pls fix.

!br-avery!
06-29-2016, 08:00 PM
I saw Stralman and got sad

Phil in Absentia
06-29-2016, 08:03 PM
I'd imagine he's looking for some term, probably 3-4 years, at around $2.5M per. Rangers probably want that number under $2M.

ThirtyONE
06-29-2016, 08:07 PM
He's a 30 yo 4th liner. No way should be be getting a 3-4 year deal. Not to circle back, but I think Matt Martin is more effective in his role with the same amount of points. I'd rather Pay Martin 2m than Stalberg.

lefty9
06-29-2016, 08:20 PM
for that much, just move on.

DrSutton
06-29-2016, 08:24 PM
I'm ok with this...as long as the money is crazy.

The Dude
06-29-2016, 08:25 PM
I liked Stalberg. Wish he were more consistent. But since he isn't, I'd only bring him back on the same deal he had last year.

Stalberg can slot up in a pinch and he was playing physical towards the end, and seemed to be one of the few forwards with a pulse in the playoffs.

Not sure who else they can get in here on a one year one million dollar deal. Do they take a swipe at Cody Hodgson in a depth guy/ scrap heap signing?

NYR2711
06-29-2016, 09:09 PM
I didn't mind Stalberg, and wouldn't mind him back next year. He helped provide some offense from the 4th line and was physical. I wouldn't want to over pay him, but on a deal for $1.5M, I wouldn't mind him.

So Nashty
06-29-2016, 09:22 PM
Really "changing" it up Gorton :rolleyes::rolleyes:

RichieNextel305
06-29-2016, 09:37 PM
What a shake-up.

Faiz
06-29-2016, 09:54 PM
After the all-star game he really started playing better, albeit not amazing, but I liked him. If the price is right I'd be happy keeping him (which is an obvious statement but yeah).

Travis Bickle
06-29-2016, 10:33 PM
Make America Great Again

So Nashty
06-29-2016, 10:47 PM
Our 4th line will be magnificent

Travis Bickle
06-29-2016, 11:14 PM
Trump/Pence 2016

Greenday4537
06-29-2016, 11:21 PM
I love this effort by the front office to shake up the team by re-signing everyone.

Drew a Penalty
06-29-2016, 11:35 PM
Why are people complaining about potentially re-signing a fourth liner? As if letting him go is going to set off a domino effect that shakes up the team. He's not a problem.

ThirtyONE
06-30-2016, 12:47 AM
Why are people complaining about potentially re-signing a fourth liner? As if letting him go is going to set off a domino effect that shakes up the team. He's not a problem.

because our 4th line sucked and if you're going to change things this summer, that would be an easy place to start.

Drew a Penalty
06-30-2016, 01:20 AM
because our 4th line sucked and if you're going to change things this summer, that would be an easy place to start.

I don't see how that's really shaking things up. It's the fourth line. That's an easy fix. I don't see how Stalberg is also a negative part of it. Unless there's somehow some game changing fourth liner out there and Stalberg doesn't cost much to re-sign I don't see what the issue is. To me it seems like complaining for the sake of it because nothing is being done and when there is, if it's not what people want, arms get thrown up.

It's not an overly impactful move but it isn't a negative one.

ThirtyONE
06-30-2016, 02:14 AM
I don't see how that's really shaking things up. It's the fourth line. That's an easy fix. I don't see how Stalberg is also a negative part of it. Unless there's somehow some game changing fourth liner out there and Stalberg doesn't cost much to re-sign I don't see what the issue is. To me it seems like complaining for the sake of it because nothing is being done and when there is, if it's not what people want, arms get thrown up.

It's not an overly impactful move but it isn't a negative one.

You're right. Whether he comes back or not is of minor importance. That said, IMO, stalberg isn't good. He brings nothing new to the team that can't be found on the roster already. If you're going to make big changes like we've read about, getting some fresh blood on the 4th line would be a decent start.

Again, it doesn't actually matter. But he was part of a team that sucked and people want to see some change.

Pete
06-30-2016, 03:08 AM
You're right. Whether he comes back or not is of minor importance. That said, IMO, stalberg isn't good. He brings nothing new to the team that can't be found on the roster already. If you're going to make big changes like we've read about, getting some fresh blood on the 4th line would be a decent start.

Again, it doesn't actually matter. But he was part of a team that sucked and people want to see some change.
Actually, he brings size and speed, and he's good on the forecheck. This team definitely needs all of that.

pws85nyr
06-30-2016, 03:21 AM
Resigned for the same money on a 1 year deal again I'm fine with this. But, he will want more and a longer term despite us being the team that took a flyer on him and essentially revived his career. Not sure we can afford this for a 4th line player.

This is what really annoys me. Have some loyalty, repay those who had faith in you when others did not. We need to stop bowing to our FA/RFA's requests and say if you want to stay in NY, quite possibly the best city in the world, then this is what you are getting. You don't like it? Go. Plenty of others will want to play here. Be ruthless ad stop overpaying. We have what they want, a life in one of if not THE best sports town in the world. Make then pay a discount for that privilege (in terms of $$$ or years).

Drew a Penalty
06-30-2016, 03:24 AM
Actually, he brings size and speed, and he's good on the forecheck. This team definitely needs all of that.

This. Replace him if you want to but he wasn't what's wrong with the team. He performed as expected and actually had solid "fancy stats" while Dominic Moore and Tanner Glass, his most common linemates, were possession nightmares. Want to fix the fourth line? Replace them.

Still, worrying about the fourth line as a major component of this "re-tool" is a bit much. It isn't that important and changes were coming to that regardless. Your fourth line shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing a game.

The changes we should be worried about affect important members of the offense and defense.

Drew a Penalty
06-30-2016, 03:31 AM
Resigned for the same money on a 1 year deal again I'm fine with this. But, he will want more and a longer term despite us being the team that took a flyer on him and essentially revived his career. Not sure we can afford this for a 4th line player.

This is what really annoys me. Have some loyalty, repay those who had faith in you when others did not. We need to stop bowing to our FA/RFA's requests and say if you want to stay in NY, quite possibly the best city in the world, then this is what you are getting. You don't like it? Go. Plenty of others will want to play here. Be ruthless ad stop overpaying. We have what they want, a life in one of if not THE best sports town in the world. Make then pay a discount for that privilege (in terms of $$$ or years).

Loyatly doesn't really exist. When it happens it's rare. Players don't really take hometown discounts and if they do it's marginal.

Even look at Stamkos with his most recent signing. Seems like a hometown discount, but it's really just similar to any salary he'd be getting with any other potential suitor with taxes. Florida doesn't have income tax. He stays in Florida and still gets paid a shit ton.

pws85nyr
06-30-2016, 03:35 AM
Loyatly doesn't really exist. When it happens it's rare. Players don't really take hometown discounts and if they do it's marginal.

Even look at Stamkos with his most recent signing. Seems like a hometown discount, but it's really just similar to any salary he'd be getting with any other potential suitor with taxes. Florida doesn't have income tax. He stays in Florida and still gets paid a shit ton.

Yeah totally, just frustrates me. If i'm a player earning plenty of $$$ anyway, why would i sign in say Columbus just for an extra $1M? I wouldn't, but players (or their agents) seem so focused on the $$$ rather than the quality of the hockey/franchise.

Being English the tax implications is only something i really started to understand a year or two ago so i can see how this has a big difference. If you are a lower line player with a family then you are going to try and set yourself up for life, i get that.

It's just something about sports in general that is starting to bug me. Never used to be this way, but the business aspect of things has made it so.

Rant over :cool:

Pete
06-30-2016, 03:42 AM
Taxes aren't as big a deal as people make them out to be, imo.

When these players sign 1 year deals, they're "prove it" deals meant to springboard them into more lucrative contracts. I think both sides know this when they get into them.

Look at Pouliot.

pws85nyr
06-30-2016, 04:22 AM
Taxes aren't as big a deal as people make them out to be, imo.

When these players sign 1 year deals, they're "prove it" deals meant to springboard them into more lucrative contracts. I think both sides know this when they get into them.

Look at Pouliot.

True. I guess i'm just being a little optimistic. Would like to re sign him though, in the later part of the season and playoffs i thought he was one of our better players. Just would be reluctant to offer a multi year deal, and anything more than $1.4M (a la Glass and Dorsett).

I just know you are coming back with 20 points = $2M :) and this is probably nearer to what he will get in truth, but at that price i think it should be elsewhere (i highly doubt he takes another 1yr deal to).

Dunny
06-30-2016, 07:37 AM
It will go a long way to keeping our roster physically attractive, which may be all we have to look forward to.

Respecttheblue
06-30-2016, 07:49 AM
Worked well with Lindberg there for a while, until it didn't
Then AV got all anal and the team mojo seemed shot to hell.
I'm down to giving it another go at the right price. Hope it does not block a spot that some promising prospect could develop in -- that's my main concern.

Future
06-30-2016, 08:46 AM
because our 4th line sucked and if you're going to change things this summer, that would be an easy place to start.
But you want to add Matt Martin...who has less speed and less skill.

Future
06-30-2016, 08:55 AM
Taxes aren't as big a deal as people make them out to be, imo.
The $68 million Stamkos will make in Florida is the equivalent of about $77 million in NY. On a yearly basis, Stamkos' $8.5m is the equivalent of roughly $9.3m in NY.

$800k a year is a big deal. It's naive to think that NY taxes aren't a big deal, especially in this context. NYR starts at a huge negotiating disadvantage right off the bat just because of income tax, and this doesn't even include cost of living, which is astoundingly higher in NY than Tampa.

Pete
06-30-2016, 09:06 AM
The $68 million Stamkos will make in Florida is the equivalent of about $77 million in NY. On a yearly basis, Stamkos' $8.5m is the equivalent of roughly $9.3m in NY.

$800k a year is a big deal. It's naive to think that NY taxes aren't a big deal, especially in this context. NYR starts at a huge negotiating disadvantage right off the bat just because of income tax, and this doesn't even include cost of living, which is astoundingly higher in NY than Tampa.It's naive to think his decision was based on taxes.

I think that's probably the last thing a player thinks about when they decide what city they want to play in.

$800k is a big deal to YOU.

It isn't to a pro athlete who's already made a shit ton of money, and whatever "disadvantage" you may think New York has are pretty insignificant judging by the amount of players willing to waive their NTC to come here.

Stamkos could have signed for $10 million in Detroit or Toronto.

Add to that his endorsement opportunities double playing for the team from NY vs the team from Tampa.

firegorton
06-30-2016, 09:13 AM
Yeah. That makes sense. Overpay for another old fart, role player who lacks motivation instead of letting Hrvik earn the job who is hungry and looked great in his few games up here. At this point I'd fire Gorton and AV. It's becoming obvious they are incompetent.

Pete
06-30-2016, 09:16 AM
Yeah. That makes sense. Overpay for another old fart, role player who lacks motivation instead of letting Hrvik earn the job who is hungry and looked great in his few games up here. At this point I'd fire Gorton and AV. It's becoming obvious they are incompetent.
I think you've made your feelings on Gorton clear in multiple threads.

It's totally cool to have an opinion on retaining Stalberg without repeating that Gorton should be fired...again. :)

We wouldn't want every thread to become a debate over Gorton. We have that in its own thread.

Thanks in advance.

Dunny
06-30-2016, 09:16 AM
Pro athlete taxes are fucked up because they have to pay tax based on where they are playing that night. It's not a simple thing and we have zero knowledge of what matters to the individual.

Gotta think the worst taxes for a player would be Ontario, Quebec and NYS. I'm poor and I pay over 50% tax in this shit hole. Can't be pretty for a millionaire.

Future
06-30-2016, 09:17 AM
It's naive to think his decision was based on taxes.
I didn't say Stamkos' decision was based on taxes, I was just using him as an example.

I don't know what world you think athletes live in when $800k a year isn't a big deal. They might find that other things are more important, like enjoying living in a place that doesn't have winter and playing on a team that is a SC contender, but that doesn't mean taxes aren't important.

Pete
06-30-2016, 09:19 AM
I didn't say Stamkos' decision was based on taxes, I was just using him as an example.

I don't know what world you think athletes live in when $800k a year isn't a big deal. They might find that other things are more important, like enjoying living in a place that doesn't have winter and playing on a team that is a SC contender, but that doesn't mean taxes aren't important.

I said $800k isn't a big deal for Stamkos, in the context of deciding where to play.

I didn't say taxes weren't important. I said they weren't as important as people make them out to be.

They also might find that income taxes are a small price to pay to play in a city like NY.

Dunny
06-30-2016, 09:25 AM
I said $800k isn't a big deal for Stamkos, in the context of deciding where to play.

I didn't say taxes weren't important. I said they weren't as important as people make them out to be.

They also might find that income taxes are a small price to pay to play in a city like NY.

You'd be surprised how many guys hate playing in NY. Probably not Stamkos, but the few I've talked to hated every minute of it.

Pete
06-30-2016, 09:29 AM
You'd be surprised how many guys hate playing in NY. Probably not Stamkos, but the few I've talked to hated every minute of it.
It doesn't surprise me that a few people hated it. Sucks for them.

Plenty of players loved it. Look at Messier.

Nash only wanted to play here.

MSL loved it, by all accounts.

Then you have Matt Cullen...Bye, Felicia.

I'm sure you can find players that hated playing in every NHL city... really not indicative of anything.

Dunny
06-30-2016, 09:30 AM
True. It's usually the lesser lights. Dressing rooms can be pretty segregated between incomes.

AmericanJesus
06-30-2016, 09:31 AM
Back to Stalberg, he earned himself a 2-3 year deal worth around $2M per year. That's why he signed a "show me" deal with us. Should we pay that and offer that term? No. He's shown that he's been inconsistent both in production and effort throughout his career. He was moved out of Chicago and then bought out by the Predators for a reason. That reason is that he shows flashes, but ultimately disappoints. Let him disappoint on someone elses' dime. We have enough of our own home grown disappointment to deal with.

Thank him for his effort, wish him the best in free agency and look for a few more players in need of these "show me" deals where you sign 3 or 4 of them and one of them pans out to provide value.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
06-30-2016, 09:37 AM
at his age, he's going to want a longer term deal that he can potentially finish out his career with, or at least eat up enough of a chunk of the rest of the time he has left. I would be very hesitant to be giving him more than a 1 year deal again. 2 years maybe, 3, no way.

if we are giving him 2.5 for 3-4 years id rather just give Martin 3.5 for the same length

Pete
06-30-2016, 09:39 AM
at his age, he's going to want a longer term deal that he can potentially finish out his career with, or at least eat up enough of a chunk of the rest of the time he has left. I would be very hesitant to be giving him more than a 1 year deal again. 2 years maybe, 3, no way.

if we are giving him 2.5 for 3-4 years id rather just give Martin 3.5 for the same length
You're gonna have to explain the thinking behind that one haha.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
06-30-2016, 10:00 AM
You're gonna have to explain the thinking behind that one haha.

which part?

at 30, Stalberg is going to want some security for the rest of his career so if he can get a contract that takes him to 34, he's going to take it.

or if you meant the second part, while I don't think Martin is worth that much, if we are going to be spending that much money on Stalberg, I'd rather just pay the going rate for Martin who is younger and plays with much more of an edge. Looking at where we stand now, I don't think we are going to be a very good team. Mediocre maybe. So if we aren't going to be a very good team, we can at least have a guy like Martin that will be a thorn in the other teams side and make sure we aren't just walked over by anyone.

Pete
06-30-2016, 10:01 AM
which part?

at 30, Stalberg is going to want some security for the rest of his career so if he can get a contract that takes him to 34, he's going to take it.

or if you meant the second part, while I don't think Martin is worth that much, if we are going to be spending that much money on Stalberg, I'd rather just pay the going rate for Martin who is younger and plays with much more of an edge. Looking at where we stand now, I don't think we are going to be a very good team. Mediocre maybe. So if we aren't going to be a very good team, we can at least have a guy like Martin that will be a thorn in the other teams side and make sure we aren't just walked over by anyone.
Martin is garbage and not half the player Stalberg is.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
06-30-2016, 10:10 AM
Stalberg is more talented for sure, but they are completely different players. It really is comparing apples to oranges. Whichever of the two we have, they will both be on the 4th line and I'm saying that I like the physical element that Martin brings to the 4th line. Stalberg definitely can be used on a 3rd line when needed as well, but hopefully guys like Fast, Lindberg and Buch step up and finish out that 3rd line.

For the record, I'm not saying Martin is worth 3.5 at all. Just that, I don't want to sign Stalberg to that amount of money for that amount of time and if we were going to do that, I'd rather just shell out the money for Martin instead.

Cash or Czech?
06-30-2016, 04:46 PM
Yeah. That makes sense. Overpay for another old fart, role player who lacks motivation instead of letting Hrvik earn the job who is hungry and looked great in his few games up here. At this point I'd fire Gorton and AV. It's becoming obvious they are incompetent.

Hrivik doesn't have a full-time NHL role because he's not good enough.

I don't understand why this fan base is so convinced the coaching and management are fucked up and they're citing fourth line players like Stalberg, Lindberg, Glass and McIlrath as the key reasons. Seems blinded by the homegrown mentality.

The Dude
06-30-2016, 05:54 PM
Hrivik doesn't have a full-time NHL role because he's not good enough.

I don't understand why this fan base is so convinced the coaching and management are fucked up and they're citing fourth line players like Stalberg, Lindberg, Glass and McIlrath as the key reasons. Seems blinded by the homegrown mentality.

I agree with the homegrown mentality. Yet, not limited to the lesser players. Everyone has their favorites, and many give more excuses for fuck ups and errors for their guy.

I think a lot of Ranger fans have this complex of wanting homegrown talent so bad, because of how little of the young players panned out in the dark ages of Sather/Smith.

There's the "called it" factor also. Seems a lot of fans like to stroke their own egos, as know it alls to proclaim they told everyone that so and so was going to be good or bad. Just how it is.

I'm a Lindberg and Mcllrath fanboy. They can never do wrong and the coaching staff is trying to ruin their careers (JOKING!)

Cash or Czech?
06-30-2016, 06:34 PM
I agree with the homegrown mentality. Yet, not limited to the lesser players. Everyone has their favorites, and many give more excuses for fuck ups and errors for their guy.

I think a lot of Ranger fans have this complex of wanting homegrown talent so bad, because of how little of the young players panned out in the dark ages of Sather/Smith.

There's the "called it" factor also. Seems a lot of fans like to stroke their own egos, as know it alls to proclaim they told everyone that so and so was going to be good or bad. Just how it is.

I'm a Lindberg and Mcllrath fanboy. They can never do wrong and the coaching staff is trying to ruin their careers (JOKING!)

Unfortunately, a lot of people believe your final sentence for real. I for one believe it about Fast, but I believe he's just a solid bottom-6 winger. It's such an issue that individuals get blinded by how homegrown talent gets treated. McIlrath got easy matchups, has no footspeed and isn't suited for more than a 6/7 role. Lindberg started hot and disappeared. Hrivik had five games where he didn't do any egregiously bad and now he should be an NHL full-timer.

Gorton can, should and will do what's best for the team. That means aligning the best roster so AV can fill out each role. Stalberg fills a role and a one-year deal for a little more money doesn't affect our long-term ability to spend whatsoever. He also performed well for the role he was in and the salary he was paid. I would absolutely bring him back on a one-year deal because he gives us the best opportunity to perform in that spot on the roster. More than Hrivik, more than Tambellini and probably more than Jensen. And that's worth more money as a short-term investment.

AliveIn94
07-01-2016, 11:43 AM
The homegrown talent thing is because of cap issues right? Its not the thought that our fourth-liners would light the lamp at an incredible pace? Yeah it's arguable that the mismanagement is there but it wasn't a make/break factor for this team. Defense was ( as we all know)👍.

thes5
07-01-2016, 02:07 PM
Stalberg to Carolina. 1yr.. $1.5