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Lt. Dan
03-29-2016, 12:24 PM
I didn't find any threads on this or see it included in any prior discussion, so I'm posting it here. If it's already been posted somewhere, mods please delete.

http://www.tsn.ca/link-between-fighting-concussions-personal-tragedies-discussed-in-unsealed-nhl-emails-1.460651


A U.S. federal court in Minneapolis has unsealed a trove of sensitive emails sent between high-ranking National Hockey League executives, including one email exchange in which NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly links fighting in hockey to concussions, depression, and “personal tragedies.”


Lawyers for the former players say Daly’s email, which the NHL battled to keep secret, appears to contradict the league’s public stance on the alleged link between hockey, and long-term brain injuries. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman for years has steadfastly denied that such a link exists.
“While the NFL has recently admitted the link between repetitive trauma in sport and long-term brain disease, the NHL continues to deny the link, insisting that hockey is not football,” Michael Cashman, a lawyer for the former players, said in an interview. “Contrary to those public denials, this internal email from senior NHL executive Bill Daly to commissioner Bettman acknowledges the link between head injuries, depression and personal tragedies.”


“Can you believe this run of injuries,” Bettman wrote in a Dec. 17, 2011, email. “Couturier just took a puck to the head.”

Shanahan replied: “Another busy night.”

“How bad?” Bettman wrote.

“Just a couple plays but one on a Boston player and one on Mtl player,” Shanahan wrote. “As it turns out I think only the Boston MIGHT get a small suspension. The Mtl player picks the head but the NJ players leans ‘just prior’. No injury and no history. Very similar to Malone/Campoli (but in their favor this time)”

“Any more concussions?” Bettman replied.

“Not so far,” Shanahan replied.

“Night is young!” Bettman wrote.

I'm not surprised by any of this, especially considering what's been going on in the NFL for years, but I still can't help but feel disgusted.

phillyb™
03-29-2016, 01:40 PM
link to article?

Lt. Dan
03-29-2016, 02:56 PM
It's in the beginning of the post before the quotes but I'll add it to the bottom.

ThirtyONE
03-29-2016, 06:24 PM
I didn't realize they were denying any of this.

Mike
03-29-2016, 06:48 PM
This stuff is from 2011. I think it's clear that they've been well aware of how serious this has become since then. There's so much more info now than there was then. There's a concussion protocol in place for every head shot now. They're headed in the right direction.

Pete
03-29-2016, 07:13 PM
They had a pretty cavalier attitude even for 2011.

Mike
03-29-2016, 07:40 PM
They had a pretty cavalier attitude even for 2011.

So did the NFL. No one wants to admit that their game can cause these types of issues. Whether they want to believe it or not is another story. Unfortunately people had to die for it to become more eye opening. But then again, how is that any different from any other precaution measures, rules, laws, etc in all areas of life? It's always a cavalier attitude until something tragic happens.

Pete
03-29-2016, 07:57 PM
So did the NFL. No one wants to admit that their game can cause these types of issues. Whether they want to believe it or not is another story. Unfortunately people had to die for it to become more eye opening. But then again, how is that any different from any other precaution measures, rules, laws, etc in all areas of life? It's always a cavalier attitude until something tragic happens.

Well yes, but the NHL's default position has always been "we're not the NFL", which was their way of saying concussions weren't as big an issue as they were in the NFL, but they kind of did know it was an issue.

Mike
03-29-2016, 09:51 PM
Well yes, but the NHL's default position has always been "we're not the NFL", which was their way of saying concussions weren't as big an issue as they were in the NFL, but they kind of did know it was an issue.

The NFL is filled with much more violent collisions, especially to the head. That's the way I look at that comment. Yes, they might have been in denial or just lying. Either way, at that time it was a topic that everyone wanted to avoid. I don't agree, but I understand why.

Pete
03-29-2016, 09:52 PM
The NFL is filled with much more violent collisions, especially to the head. That's the way I look at that comment. Yes, they might have been in denial or just lying. Either way, at that time it was a topic that everyone wanted to avoid. I don't agree, but I understand why.
NHL moves faster with less head protection.

Mike
03-29-2016, 10:28 PM
NHL moves faster with less head protection.

The comparison isn't really close. Every play in football has multiple men making head contact. The linemen and linebackers outweigh NHLers by 100+ pounds. The speed of every play of head contact in the NFL is high. Head contact in the NHL can come at low speeds, average speeds, and high speeds. Principal point of contact in NHL hits are lower than those in the NFL, and the NFL comes with more force from much larger men. Again, I don't think it's ok the NHL ignores it, or downplays it.

Pete
03-29-2016, 10:29 PM
The comparison isn't really close. Every play in football has multiple men making head contact. The linemen and linebackers outweigh NHLers by 100+ pounds. The speed of every play of head contact in the NFL is high. Head contact in the NHL can come at low speeds, average speeds, and high speeds. Principal point of contact in NHL hits are lower than those in the NFL, and the NFL comes with more force from much larger men. Again, I don't think it's ok the NHL ignores it, or downplays it.
They clearly downplayed it in these emails. The fact that the NFL did as well is pretty irrelevant.

Mike
03-29-2016, 10:36 PM
They clearly downplayed it in these emails. The fact that the NFL did as well is pretty irrelevant.

Not sure what this has to do with where our discussion was going. Other than that I agree. I'm not giving them that much latitude due to the difference of what we know now vs. 2011. Research has made huge strides, and has opened millions of minds and eyes in the last 5 years.

Blue Heaven
03-30-2016, 10:56 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/searchable-nhl-concussion-lawsuit-emails--correspondence-published-070940232.html

Some of these emails are doozies, especially the ones of Colin Campbell to Bob McKenzie

Mike
03-30-2016, 11:28 AM
I don't see anything wrong in these emails. As a matter of fact, it's refreshing to see that they share the same opinions and feelings as we do. They also have the same discussions using the same points as we do as far as fighting, protecting guys from running around, etc ...

Vodka Drunkenski
03-30-2016, 12:32 PM
I don't see anything wrong in these emails. As a matter of fact, it's refreshing to see that they share the same opinions and feelings as we do. They also have the same discussions using the same points as we do as far as fighting, protecting guys from running around, etc ...

They must read the boards like Uncle Larry

Pete
03-30-2016, 12:58 PM
It's horrifying that execs running a billion dollar industry have the same opinions as dudes dicking around on a message board.

Mike
03-30-2016, 01:06 PM
It's horrifying that execs running a billion dollar industry have the same opinions as dudes dicking around on a message board.

Horrifying is a bit dramatic. You need to lower your expectations of people. Boys don't turn into men. They just learn how to behave in public.

Lt. Dan
03-30-2016, 01:17 PM
Horrifying is a bit dramatic. You need to lower your expectations of people. Boys don't turn into men. They just learn how to behave in public.


I see your point but the problem lies in downplaying an issue that clearly has ties to what goes on in the pro sports business.

It's horrifying because executives like these are aware of the connections between concussions and brain trauma and chose to downplay it.

The NFL is far worse in the way they handled it but it doesn't make what the NHL did any better.

Again, I see the point you're making but sometimes fans hope that the people on top (or at least some) have the best interest of players in mind. It may seem naive but the idea that making money and keeping your sport going is more important than addressing an issue as serious as this, is in itself horrifying.

It happens in a lot of places, I'm not oblivious to that, but it doesn't remove the shock factor for me when details as this surface. It's easy to deny or not fully acknowledge something from a cushy office where that kind of danger doesn't present itself, but quality of life matters.

I know the players are aware of the risk in playing a game such as this, but still. It's not okay when the top executives who run the business you work for, act like this. Especially when health of any kind is concerned.

Mike
03-30-2016, 01:30 PM
I see your point but the problem lies in downplaying an issue that clearly has ties to what goes on in the pro sports business.

It's horrifying because executives like these are aware of the connections between concussions and brain trauma and chose to downplay it.

The NFL is far worse in the way they handled it but it doesn't make what the NHL did any better.

Again, I see the point you're making but sometimes fans hope that the people on top (or at least some) have the best interest of players in mind. It may seem naive but the idea that making money and keeping your sport going is more important than addressing an issue as serious as this, is in itself horrifying.

It happens in a lot of places, I'm not oblivious to that, but it doesn't remove the shock factor for me when details as this surface. It's easy to deny or not fully acknowledge something from a cushy office where that kind of danger doesn't present itself, but quality of life matters.

I know the players are aware of the risk in playing a game such as this, but still. It's not okay when the top executives who run the business you work for, act like this. Especially when health of any kind is concerned.

I agree. I think they showed some concern, but probably not enough. The more information that came out regarding concussions, the more they addressed it. The majority of these guys were hockey players, and they should know better.

CreaseCrusader91
03-30-2016, 08:36 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160331/354e7d51143a925896bb4bc786275f6e.jpg

From Twitter.

phillyb™
03-30-2016, 08:57 PM
wonder how many emails bettman has in his inbox right now.

Phil in Absentia
03-30-2016, 10:40 PM
Normal amount. All these addresses were changed, likely weeks before these emails were exposed.

Mike
03-30-2016, 11:20 PM
How much are they/we/whoever certain that these emails are authentic? I have never seen that email address for Shanny before, and I know his personal one as well as every time his work one has changed. Of course it's possible he had another one, but these other addresses all have the NHL attached to them, so they clearly weren't trying to hide anything.

Pete
03-31-2016, 12:05 AM
Because it's not an email address. It's an alias.

I think there is far more likelihood this is authentic than fake.

Mike
03-31-2016, 07:40 AM
Because it's not an email address. It's an alias.

I think there is far more likelihood this is authentic than fake.

So just the "to" are the addresses, and Shanny's is posted as being recognized ?

Pete
03-31-2016, 07:47 AM
So just the "to" are the addresses, and Shanny's is posted as being recognized ?
In some email clients, the "From" field isn't an email address, it's whatever you have the person listed as in your directory or the "company" directory.

That said, article states the NHL tried very hard to keep these emails from coming out I seriously doubt they're fake.

Mike
03-31-2016, 08:48 AM
In some email clients, the "From" field isn't an email address, it's whatever you have the person listed as in your directory or the "company" directory.

That said, article states the NHL tried very hard to keep these emails from coming out I seriously doubt they're fake.
Right, that's what I meant when I said recognize. I was just asking about the background on it. Has anyone in the league spoke about the authenticity of them? No one has denied them ?