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Phil in Absentia
03-28-2016, 09:13 PM
That said, there’s always been a theory that Quebec City is the relocation fallback rather than an expansion option.

Karmanos has been selling the Hurricanes, or parts of the Hurricanes, for several years. They’re out of the playoffs again. The building is filled with empty seats every night, again. And as the expansion process plays out, the Hurricanes-as-relocation-option idea is once again bubbling up.

Over the weekend, there were rumors that Karmanos had discussions with Quebecor.

:tweet: @MarioWRoy: According to @mmcguirehockey & Dany Dubé from @le985fm, there had been discussions between Peter Karmanos (#Hurricanes) & @Quebecor. #NHL


John Shannon of Sportsnet, as plugged in as they come, said last week on the radio that Quebec City is being “held in reserve” for relocation, and that the team that they’re waiting on is Carolina:

“Gary and Bill have been very emphatic about saying ‘it may be one, it may be two, it may be none.’ I’m leaning towards the ‘none’ first and then towards the ‘one,’ and if it's the one then it would be Las Vegas. But it won’t be Quebec City. I do think Quebec City is being held in reserve for a future endeavor, which is relocation."

But when?

“That’s the $500 million question. When will it happen? When does Peter Karmanos have the absolute need to sell this team? How much does money does Peter Karmanos have right now?”

Shannon says the team has to be sold because “I don’t see it salvageable with this ownership at this point.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/hurricanes-in-swirl-of-quebec--las-vegas-nhl-relocation-speculation-175439292.html

fletch
03-28-2016, 10:12 PM
Moving Carolina to Las Vegas, instead of expansion, is an intriguing speculative option mentioned in the article.

Future
03-29-2016, 09:54 AM
Moving Carolina to Las Vegas, instead of expansion, is an intriguing speculative option mentioned in the article.
Doesn't solve the problem of uneven conferences though. Move Carolina to Vegas and blow the Yotes off the face of the earth, and then we're better off

G1000
03-29-2016, 10:28 AM
I think the chief problem with the Canes is threefold:

1 - Poor ownership. Karmanos is a horrid owner who is completely unwilling to invest in that team.

2 - A poor brand. The Hurricanes have become near synonymous with mediocrity, their look is outdated, and they've really got no "face".

3 - Poor location. Look - if you're a pro sports team in NC, you'd better be in Charlotte. Charlotte proper is twice the population of Raleigh. It's less sprawled out. It's younger, hipper, has more corporate clients, has more transplants who may be your vanguard hockey group...it's just SMARTER. It also borders the Columbia SC

Rebrand this team to look more like the Hornets or Tar Heels, rename them, ship them to Charlotte, have them split an arena with the Hornets. It's a start.

Future
03-29-2016, 12:36 PM
Rebrand this team to look more like the Hornets, rename them, ship them to Charlotte, have them split an arena with the Hornets. It's a start.
I actually like that idea...a lot. Hockey could work in Charlotte a lot easier than Raleigh, I think. It's basically what the Isles are doing in Brooklyn...though they're doing a shitty job of it. They don't necessarily need to mimic the Hornets or anything either, the Kings/Lakers, Bruins/Celtics, Hawks/Bulls all play off of each other pretty well without being totally complimentary.

I think the best way to make it would would be to name the team after something relevant to the city. It's nickname is Queen City, so maybe they could be the Charlotte Queens and have a natural east/west rivalry with the Kings lol

Pete
03-29-2016, 01:23 PM
Anyone been to Charlotte?

Future
03-29-2016, 02:06 PM
Anyone been to Charlotte?
Yea, a bunch.

Dunny
03-29-2016, 02:12 PM
I love the Carolinas, but if a team didn't work in Atlanta moving it to Charlotte and tapping in to the SC area is just a smaller Atlanta.

Future
03-29-2016, 02:23 PM
I love the Carolinas, but if a team didn't work in Atlanta moving it to Charlotte and tapping in to the SC area is just a smaller Atlanta.
Charlotte has A) a lot of young, active people who would go to hockey games, just like they do Hornets games, B) a lot of northern transplants who already have an interest in hockey. I think that's a lot different than Atlanta. The hockey-Hornets could also pull from the Rock Hill/York County area in South Carolina, which is just about 20 miles away and growing with a lot of young people moving there. Can't pull that in Raleigh.

Plus, Charlotte has the most babes per capita of any city in the country.

Pete
03-29-2016, 02:29 PM
I don't think pro hockey would work well in Charlotte at all.

There are too many other winter interests that are heavy favorites there.

Dunny
03-29-2016, 02:36 PM
My head office is in Spartanburg SC, I've talked to 20 people there and not a single one has a fuck to give about hockey.

Future
03-29-2016, 02:48 PM
My head office is in Spartanburg SC, I've talked to 20 people there and not a single one has a fuck to give about hockey.
Yea but you could do that anywhere. I live in Rochester and, depending on where you are, you could get the same results.

And my point isn't really that there is already a big hockey base in/around Charlotte. It's that you've got a population base that, if you sell the team right, could become interested in hockey. I don't think that potential was ever there in Atlanta.

ThirtyONE
03-29-2016, 06:27 PM
If hockey in Carolina fails, I'll laugh. Atlanta twice and now Carolina. I'm actually shocked the Florida panthers are still around.

Hot weather climates are not hockey towns. I think Vegas will eventually fail too.

phillyb™
03-29-2016, 06:33 PM
If hockey in Carolina fails, I'll laugh. Atlanta twice and now Carolina. I'm actually shocked the Florida panthers are still around.

Hot weather climates are not hockey towns. I think Vegas will eventually fail too.

i don't disagree, per se, but humor me...
how many "hot weather climates" with hockey teams are there? tampa lightning, florida panthers, dallas stars, la kings, anaheim ducks, carolina hurricanes? nashville? phoenix?

how many of those are playoff teams? six of eight?

Phil in Absentia
03-29-2016, 07:37 PM
Again, climate does not matter. Or I should say it only matters slightly. What matters most is corporate sponsorship opportunity, youth hockey scene or willingness to grow one, arena details, ownership, and team composition.

The reason so many of these clubs fail has little to do with climate. It's almost always a combination of the above.

If warm weather kills a franchise before birth, explain the Kings, Sharks, Coyotes (before the move to Glendale), Stars and Predators and the varying degrees of success they've all had.

Explain why the building was sold out for every game when the Canes went on that '06 Cup run.

Blue Heaven
03-29-2016, 07:54 PM
Charlotte/NC/SC

Nascar > Hockey
College Football > Hockey
Beer can shooting > Hockey

Pete
03-29-2016, 08:06 PM
i don't disagree, per se, but humor me...
how many "hot weather climates" with hockey teams are there? tampa lightning, florida panthers, dallas stars, la kings, anaheim ducks, carolina hurricanes? nashville? phoenix?

how many of those are playoff teams? six of eight?

Doesn't matter for this topic

tampa lightning... 16th in the NHL % capacity of venue
florida panthers... 26th
dallas stars... 13th
la kings... 11th
anaheim ducks... 23rd
carolina hurricanes?... 30th
nashville? ... 12th
phoenix?... 29th

So what this tells me is that for a warm weather team to get inside the top 15 in attendance, you need a perennial playoff team (Dallas was last in the NHL as recent as '13/'14.

Future
03-29-2016, 09:23 PM
Charlotte/NC/SC

Nascar > Hockey
College Football > Hockey
Beer can shooting > Hockey
Hockey is the third or 4th choice in lots of cities...like NY. When you add in college sports, there are probably fewer than 5 markets in the US where hockey is #1, and 0 major markets.

But hockey doesn't have to be #1 to be successful. It needs to carve out a niche, and I think, with the right approach, it absolutely could in Charlotte. More than in Raleigh anyways.

Pete
03-29-2016, 09:35 PM
They'll need corporate support and in Charlotte, that means banks. Wells Fargo is big there, IIRC and doubt they back the Hurricanes considering they own the arena in Philly.

It's not as easy as people think.

Phil in Absentia
03-29-2016, 09:45 PM
Bank of America is big in the area. From what I remember years back, they absorbed a number of Carolina branches. I can't remember how much BOA is involved in the NHL anywhere else, either.

Pete
03-29-2016, 09:51 PM
Bank of America is big in the area. From what I remember years back, they absorbed a number of Carolina branches. I can't remember how much BOA is involved in the NHL anywhere else, either.
They're into the Panthers. Not sure their brand would have interest in the NHL.

American Airlines is there. But they own the Stars arena.

Phil in Absentia
03-29-2016, 10:00 PM
Panthers were BB&T, I thought? BB&T owns their arena, at least.

Pete
03-29-2016, 10:01 PM
Panthers were BB&T, I thought? BB&T owns their arena, at least.
Carolina Panthers. NFL.

phillyb™
03-29-2016, 10:03 PM
they own my mortgage note, that's for sure.

Phil in Absentia
03-29-2016, 10:03 PM
Oh, gotcha. I don't see BOA having much interest in the NHL either.

If they did go to Charlotte, I wonder if they could try to go the cable route and double-up with the Hornets on Time Warner?

Mike
03-30-2016, 12:19 AM
The Canes AHL team is in Charlotte. How do they fair? Gotta figure if the Checkers draw well that the Canes will too.

Pete
03-30-2016, 05:27 AM
The Canes AHL team is in Charlotte. How do they fair? Gotta figure if the Checkers draw well that the Canes will too.
The cost of a night at an AHL game is nowhere near the cost of an NHL game.

You can get front row season tickets to the see the Checkers play in Bojangles arena for $950... Or $24/game.

Mike
03-30-2016, 07:17 AM
The cost of a night at an AHL game is nowhere near the cost of an NHL game.

You can get front row season tickets to the see the Checkers play in Bojangles arena for $950... Or $24/game.

True, but is money the issue there, or is it the population of the area? Sometimes a new city will boost attendance. If the Checkers draw a crowd at least there's interest.

Pete
03-30-2016, 07:26 AM
True, but is money the issue there, or is it the population of the area? Sometimes a new city will boost attendance. If the Checkers draw a crowd at least there's interest.
There's interest at the $25 price point for the best seats.

Is there interest at the $40 price point for worse seats and more expensive f&b?

Mike
03-30-2016, 08:07 AM
There's interest at the $25 price point for the best seats.

Is there interest at the $40 price point for worse seats and more expensive f&b?

First thing's first. They'll have to research part 2 before making that move. I believe The5 is a coach in the Jr. Canes program. Maybe he can give us better insight on what the fuck goes on down with the Billy Joe Jim Bobs.

Future
03-30-2016, 08:14 AM
The Canes AHL team is in Charlotte. How do they fair? Gotta figure if the Checkers draw well that the Canes will too.
They were top 10 in attendance their first 5 seasons since moving from Albany...this year they're 16th.

The more I think about it, the more I doubt that they could keep both teams in Charlotte. They'd have to boot the checkers, maybe to Greensboro or something. But I think the Canes in Charlotte could certainly draw.

Future
03-30-2016, 08:15 AM
Maybe he can give us better insight on what the fuck goes on down with the Billy Joe Jim Bobs.
This type of statement has come up a couple of times in this thread, but Charlotte is not at all that kind of population.

Pete
03-30-2016, 08:23 AM
This type of statement has come up a couple of times in this thread, but Charlotte is not at all that kind of population.
Agreed. Lots of suits.

Pete
03-30-2016, 08:28 AM
And make no mistake, just because a city can support an AHL team doesn't mean they can support an NHL team.

If you need proof, look no further north than Hartford.

Dunny
03-30-2016, 08:49 AM
Who wants to sponsor me so I can move to the Carolinas?

Mike
03-30-2016, 09:44 AM
This type of statement has come up a couple of times in this thread, but Charlotte is not at all that kind of population.


Agreed. Lots of suits.

I'm sure there are lots of suits, and they're not entirely the stereotypical population that I was poking fun at. However, the suits there are the minority. The same way some of you have experienced that side of it, I've experienced the other side. Very nice people, but certainly not all suits.

Flynn
03-30-2016, 02:20 PM
I live in Charlotte and have since 93. A couple things on the Checkers, they have always drawn well, even back when they were a Rangers affiliated ECHL squad. The just moved arenas last year, they were in the Hornets building, but getting the scheduling scraps plus their "old" arena getting a full renovation made the move a no brainier.

As for the corporate dollars, Bank of America is headquartered in Charlotte, It's also Wells Fargos largest hub, Duke Energy is a monster, and US Air has a tremendous presence. Because of all the bank jobs, there is a larger north eastern based transient population than in Raleigh. Hockey isn't a cultural stretch.

It's a good arena, the Whale should have moved to Charlotte in the first place.

Mike
03-30-2016, 02:29 PM
I live in Charlotte and have since 93. A couple things on the Checkers, they have always drawn well, even back when they were a Rangers affiliated ECHL squad. The just moved arenas last year, they were in the Hornets building, but getting the scheduling scraps plus their "old" arena getting a full renovation made the move a no brainier.

As for the corporate dollars, Bank of America is headquartered in Charlotte, It's also Wells Fargos largest hub, Duke Energy is a monster, and US Air has a tremendous presence. Because of all the bank jobs, there is a larger north eastern based transient population than in Raleigh. Hockey isn't a cultural stretch.

It's a good arena, the Whale should have moved to Charlotte in the first place.

Teams have been trying to keep their AHL affiliate a little closer, as well they should. If the Kings need an emergency call up, their fuckin team is on the other side of the country for cryin out loud. I don't even know how the fuck that happens. lol.

Morphinity
03-30-2016, 03:51 PM
Teams have been trying to keep their AHL affiliate a little closer, as well they should. If the Kings need an emergency call up, their fuckin team is on the other side of the country for cryin out loud. I don't even know how the fuck that happens. lol.
Not anymore. They moved teams and now they affiliates are much closer. The Kings' affiliate is right outside of LA.

Mike
03-30-2016, 04:09 PM
Not anymore. They moved teams and now they affiliates are much closer. The Kings' affiliate is right outside of LA.

This year ?

Morphinity
03-30-2016, 04:17 PM
Yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Reign_(AHL)

Mike
03-30-2016, 05:01 PM
Yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Reign_(AHL)

Yeah, I thought Manchester won it all last year. Nice way to go out. I went to a few games there. Nice place.

Future
03-30-2016, 05:20 PM
I live in Charlotte and have since 93. A couple things on the Checkers, they have always drawn well, even back when they were a Rangers affiliated ECHL squad. The just moved arenas last year, they were in the Hornets building, but getting the scheduling scraps plus their "old" arena getting a full renovation made the move a no brainier.

As for the corporate dollars, Bank of America is headquartered in Charlotte, It's also Wells Fargos largest hub, Duke Energy is a monster, and US Air has a tremendous presence. Because of all the bank jobs, there is a larger north eastern based transient population than in Raleigh. Hockey isn't a cultural stretch.

It's a good arena, the Whale should have moved to Charlotte in the first place.
Glad someone with a little more credibility could back me up on that lol.

Phil in Absentia
03-30-2016, 05:43 PM
Great post, Flynn. Appreciate the insights.

thes5
03-31-2016, 04:27 PM
Canes have a much greater chance of success in Raleigh than Charlotte. They are the only professional sports franchise in the Triangle and the Triangle is full of transplants from the NE corridor. In fact, Met Life just put up two large buildings in Cary full of relocated New Englanders.

Also, the youth hockey scene in Raleigh dwarfs that of Charlotte. If Ron can put a decent product on the ice again, PNC will be full.