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Phil in Absentia
12-23-2015, 01:30 PM
He has been the constant, hovering presence in the ouster of four coaches who have stood behind the bench since the Penguins took Crosby with the No. 1 overall selection in 2005 draft. It’s gone from Eddie Olczyk to Michel Therrien to Dan Bylsma to Mike Johnston and, now, for some reason beyond logic, Mike Sullivan was hired to replace Johnston on Dec. 12. Sullivan, the former Rangers assistant under John Tortorella, is as out-of-touch a selection as could have been made. Just wait until Crosby gets to know him a little better.

Because what Crosby wants, Crosby gets. When Sullivan rubs him the wrong way — it’s not an “if,” it’s a “when” — the indelible No. 87 will start sulking, just like he did at the end of Therrien’s run and the end of Bylsma’s run and the end of Johnston’s run. Great players lead by example, and when Crosby wants change, it’s clear. There is a fine line there between being a demanding competitor and being a coach-killer.


Crosby has become so much more.

Which is to say he holds more power than the coach and likely the general manager. The principal owner, Mario Lemieux, opened his house to Crosby when he was drafted. Their relationship is too close to allow for perspective. If there have been ownership “moles” within the organization for years — as has been implied — that means they are Crosby constituents, as well.

Is Crosby’s authority going right to the top? Think he got a little fed up with the lack of top-tier wingers to play with, and might have blamed previous GM Ray Shero? Lemieux fired Shero after they lost in the second round of the playoffs to the Rangers in 2014, and hired Jim Rutherford, who built the Hurricanes so well they made the playoffs once in the past nine years.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/23/sidney-crosby-is-a-coach-killer-there-we-said-it/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Morphinity
12-23-2015, 02:40 PM
Breaking News: Star Player Who Has Been With Team 10 Years Has Many Coaches... More at 11

Mixed success means a variety of coaches. I don't think Crosby is "killing" coaches. When you're a superstar player - the face of the franchise - like he is, you have a lot of clout in the organization. Look at most teams around the league and you'll see the same thing.

Lundqvist has done the same thing, and it will be the same story when AV's fuse finally reaches its end. There are no articles written deriding him. There is only fan malcontent, and that's a vocal minority.

Phil in Absentia
12-23-2015, 02:55 PM
While this is true, the Pens have had three coaches in two years, and the way Sullivan's start is going, that could push to four.

He had four in ten years prior, but has had three in just the last two. Possibly four in the last two, pushing it to five in ten if you want to be intentionally far-sighted to mitigate the impact of what's happened to the franchise the last two or three years.

Morphinity
12-23-2015, 03:08 PM
Probably because Johnston was a terrible hire from the start. Sullivan is a curious replacement as well.

To me, their management has been pretty terrible throughout. It's not Crosby. Look to the front office for why that team is underachieving mightily. Bad hires, bad trades, bad signings. It's all bad.

Phil in Absentia
12-23-2015, 03:09 PM
I tend to agree, but I do think Sid shoulders some of that blame. He has to. He's the captain. Especially with how poor his play on the ice has been the last year and a half.

Morphinity
12-23-2015, 03:17 PM
Some, sure. He's a major part of that team. But "coach killer"? Come on. It's just sensationalism.

From this article in 2012:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/story/2012-02-29/managers-coaches-tenure/53376918/1

The NHL, which has turned over 47% of its coaches since the end of last season, is the most volatile. Six coaches started their first year on the job last fall and eight others have been fired this season.

"Coaching today is a little different than it was probably six, seven, eight years ago — a lot more long-term contracts," Trotz said. "And that puts a lot more pressure on management. The GM can't make as many moves. When they say, 'Hey, this is my team and it's not working out to expectations,' the easy and sometimes the only thing to do is to let the coach go. Because you can't make moves and deals like you used to."

NHL coaches average three years on the job — and that stat includes the Buffalo Sabres' Lindy Ruff in his 14th season and Trotz in his 13th. The NHL median, through the midpoint of the 2011-12 season, is 2.51 seasons, and without Ruff and Trotz, the average would fall from 3.02 seasons to 2.7.

So with Crosby in his 10th year, he's had slightly more coaches than the average player would - 4 coaches... 5 if we're counting Eddie Olczyk, but why would we do that?

But mainly that's due to, again, Johnston being a bad hire. Even at the time, people were surprised IIRC. That's on management mostly. Otherwise, it is all standard.

Phil in Absentia
12-23-2015, 03:58 PM
Right, but again, that's focusing on the larger picture. Not that I don't think that is important, but there's a trend developing right now where he may have four coaches in two years. I'm not sure how he doesn't shoulder some of the blame in this case, even if it doesn't chalk up to equaling the "coach-killer" tag.

I mean, if we look at the entire body of work of Wade Redden, for example, he's gonna look like a great NHL defender, but if you focus on his years with the Rangers, as you should, it's gonna look terrible, and that's an important distinction if you are having a conversation about him as an active player in 2009 or 2010. Or we can swap him for Dan Boyle, for example, who'd have a similarly ugly downward trend with his time as a Ranger versus his whole body of work including his time with Tampa and the early years with San José that'd tell you he was a point-producer.

Important distinctions within the context of looking at a select set of years to see if there is in fact a negative trend occuring.

Pete
12-25-2015, 09:36 PM
Why wouldn't we count olcyk?

Mike
12-26-2015, 08:42 AM
Why wouldn't we count olcyk?

You can, but you have to look at it sideways. 30 something games together, Olcyk was there for 2 years and they sucked.

Pete
12-26-2015, 08:51 AM
You can, but you have to look at it sideways. 30 something games together, Olcyk was there for 2 years and they sucked.
Crosby was a big reason O was fired though, wasn't he?

Mike
12-26-2015, 08:54 AM
Crosby was a big reason O was fired though, wasn't he?

Not that I remember, though I could be wrong. I know that he had enough of Therien, and him canned for sure.

Puck Head
12-26-2015, 03:08 PM
Crosby was a big reason O was fired though, wasn't he?

Naw, that's the only coach you can't pin on him.
There were rumblings of Eddie O being in over his head before that season started.

Then they brought in all those vets crosbys rookie year and it was obvious

Puck Head
12-26-2015, 03:13 PM
Penguins have just been terrible with coaches outside Blysma

When Eddie O was fired and Therrian brought in, I think he was their 6th coach in 6 years (this is before Crosby)