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Phil in Absentia
12-16-2015, 11:02 AM
Since John Tortorella took over for Todd Richards in Columbus, star center Ryan Johnansen has been told he’s out of shape, sent away from the club for a few games (to deal with a mystery illness) and demoted to the fourth line.

Now, he’s been benched.

Johansen didn’t play a single shift in the third period of Tuesday’s 5-1 loss to Dallas, and finished with a season-low 11:03 TOI.

“That was coach’s decision,” Tortorella explained, per the club website. “No explanation. I just didn’t play him.”


I’ve mentioned this a few times, but it bears repeating — Johansen is a client of agent Kurt Overhardt. Some of Overhardt’s other clients include Kyle Turris (who forced a trade out of Arizona) and Ryan Kesler (who reportedly forced a trade from Vancouver, which Overhardt later denied).

Knowing that, now consider the existing contention between the Johansen camp and Columbus prior to the Tortorella hire — Johansen’s now-infamous holdout, which cost him all of the 2014 preseason.

Doesn’t this situation sound like one that’ll end with a “fresh start?”

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2015/12/16/the-torts-johansen-relationship-continues-to-deteriorate/

Future
12-16-2015, 11:46 AM
Hayes and Girardi? :slats:

AmericanJesus
12-16-2015, 11:57 AM
Hayes and Girardi? :slats:

Done and done.

Dunny
12-16-2015, 11:58 AM
Stop eating cheeseburgers you fat fuck

!br-avery!
12-16-2015, 12:07 PM
Stop eating cheeseburgers you fat fuck

:lol:

Future
12-16-2015, 12:46 PM
Done and done.
It would most certainly take more than that to get him, but if I'm Slats I'm already on the phones.

Cash or Czech?
12-16-2015, 12:52 PM
Columbus are still the worst team in the East. Johansen is still 2nd on the team in points. The past two teams Tortorella has coached, he has inhibited offensive production from his best players i.e. the Sedins in Vancouver and now limiting Johansen's ice time this year. To be honest, I hate Torts as an NHL coach. He's tough on his players but to the point where it's a detriment to the team. You're benching your star player in the third period of a game you need goals in. What kind of coaching is that? Who cares about sending a message mid-season when it's more important to win games.

Phil in Absentia
12-16-2015, 12:55 PM
Like the Stamkos thing, if you are bringing in Johanssen and playing him at center, why do so without trading one of Stepan or Brassard? You really want to be paying a third-line center (whomever it might be between those two and Johanssen) $5M+ per year?

AmericanJesus
12-16-2015, 01:22 PM
Like the Stamkos thing, if you are bringing in Johanssen and playing him at center, why do so without trading one of Stepan or Brassard? You really want to be paying a third-line center (whomever it might be between those two and Johanssen) $5M+ per year?

Johansen has another year at $4M per. Hayes probably gets just under that next season. We also shed Girardi. Two years from now yes, we need to make a decision and trade one of Stepan, Brassard or Johansen most likely, but any one of them would be moved for value as well.

If for some reason you could get Johansen for Girardi and Hayes, you do that in a heart beat. It's not even close.

Phil in Absentia
12-16-2015, 01:40 PM
Johansen has another year at $4M per. Hayes probably gets just under that next season. We also shed Girardi. Two years from now yes, we need to make a decision and trade one of Stepan, Brassard or Johansen most likely, but any one of them would be moved for value as well.

If for some reason you could get Johansen for Girardi and Hayes, you do that in a heart beat. It's not even close.

I'm not saying you don't. I'm saying long-term it creates another issue with having a three-headed monster.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. But I'm also acknowledging it would mean having to move one of Stepan or Brassard, probably within a year/season.

lefty9
12-16-2015, 01:45 PM
That would be great getting rid of Girardi and picking up Johansen, pipe dreaming

Respecttheblue
12-16-2015, 02:02 PM
Columbus are still the worst team in the East. Johansen is still 2nd on the team in points. The past two teams Tortorella has coached, he has inhibited offensive production from his best players i.e. the Sedins in Vancouver and now limiting Johansen's ice time this year. To be honest, I hate Torts as an NHL coach. He's tough on his players but to the point where it's a detriment to the team. You're benching your star player in the third period of a game you need goals in. What kind of coaching is that? Who cares about sending a message mid-season when it's more important to win games.

Zactly, at this point the sooner Johansen gets out of there the better, or he'll become another Post "Torturella" Syndrome Disorder casualty.

Future
12-16-2015, 02:03 PM
Columbus are still the worst team in the East. Johansen is still 2nd on the team in points. The past two teams Tortorella has coached, he has inhibited offensive production from his best players i.e. the Sedins in Vancouver and now limiting Johansen's ice time this year. To be honest, I hate Torts as an NHL coach. He's tough on his players but to the point where it's a detriment to the team. You're benching your star player in the third period of a game you need goals in. What kind of coaching is that? Who cares about sending a message mid-season when it's more important to win games.
Winning games this year means almost nothing to them, they aren't going to be a playoff team.

You hire a coach like Torts to change the culture around the team, and to do that in his way, it means benching players. Forfeitting a game for the sake of changing the culture is completely worth it in that regard. I think he did it here with Gabby from time to time, so it's nothing new.

Cash or Czech?
12-16-2015, 02:06 PM
Winning games this year means almost nothing to them, they aren't going to be a playoff team.

You hire a coach like Torts to change the culture around the team, and to do that in his way, it means benching players. Forfeitting a game for the sake of changing the culture is completely worth it in that regard. I think he did it here with Gabby from time to time, so it's nothing new.

As shitty as they are, they're 11 points back of the Devils for the 2nd wildcard spot. This team finished out last season with a ridiculous run once they were eliminated, but there are good pieces there. It's a really underrated and deep forward group. The goaltending has been shit and they're now dealing with injuries. If the team can play defense and let their stars doing the scoring, they can be in that 8-10 range. That's much better experience for a young team than being a bottom feeder year and year out.

His "culture" failed in Vancouver. It ran out of steam in New York. The only reason I see him as a fit is because that team needs the defense to be better as a whole than a sum of its parts, because its pretty shallow in talent.

Future
12-16-2015, 02:14 PM
As shitty as they are, they're 11 points back of the Devils for the 2nd wildcard spot. This team finished out last season with a ridiculous run once they were eliminated, but there are good pieces there. It's a really underrated and deep forward group. The goaltending has been shit and they're now dealing with injuries. If the team can play defense and let their stars doing the scoring, they can be in that 8-10 range. That's much better experience for a young team than being a bottom feeder year and year out.

His "culture" failed in Vancouver. It ran out of steam in New York. The only reason I see him as a fit is because that team needs the defense to be better as a whole than a sum of its parts, because its pretty shallow in talent.
Well, if you think they can still turn it around, then I guess we just don't look at it the same at all. The likelihood of having a similar run to last year is virtually 0. While he did run out of steam, as you put it, in NY, that's a bit misleading. I think there are still some Torts fingerprints on this team.

Not a coach in the league would have succeeded in Vancouver. They brought him in as sort of a deadline trade, hoping to give a spark to a team that could push them to the top, knowing full well that their bubble as a contender was about to, if it hadn't already, burst.

Cash or Czech?
12-16-2015, 02:20 PM
Well, if you think they can still turn it around, then I guess we just don't look at it the same at all. The likelihood of having a similar run to last year is virtually 0. While he did run out of steam, as you put it, in NY, that's a bit misleading. I think there are still some Torts fingerprints on this team.

Not a coach in the league would have succeeded in Vancouver. They brought him in as sort of a deadline trade, hoping to give a spark to a team that could push them to the top, knowing full well that their bubble as a contender was about to, if it hadn't already, burst.

Daniel Sedin scored 29 points more the season after Tortorella left. They bounced back and made the playoffs once they got rid of Torts.

Even so, IMO Columbus' forwards are better than teams above them like the Hurricanes and the surprising Devils. If Bob gets back and can get to last season's form, they're a team I could image will surprise over the course of the next 50 games.

Future
12-16-2015, 02:30 PM
Daniel Sedin scored 29 points more the season after Tortorella left. They bounced back and made the playoffs once they got rid of Torts.

Even so, IMO Columbus' forwards are better than teams above them like the Hurricanes and the surprising Devils. If Bob gets back and can get to last season's form, they're a team I could image will surprise over the course of the next 50 games.
Adding a 30-goal scorer to the lineup and not being injured had more to do with Sedin's scoring than Torts did. Plus, Henrik and Daniel were both hurt at different times, I think they only played like 60 games together.

Now, the Canucks are horrible this year with the Sedins both averaging over a PPG. They were a bad team that overachieved last year and are just a plain ol' bad team this year. The coach doesn't matter much with a roster that dreary.

Myusername
12-16-2015, 06:44 PM
Winning games this year means almost nothing to them, they aren't going to be a playoff team.

You hire a coach like Torts to change the culture around the team, and to do that in his way, it means benching players. Forfeitting a game for the sake of changing the culture is completely worth it in that regard. I think he did it here with Gabby from time to time, so it's nothing new.

The "culture" he wants to create is not sustainable. Sorry, but players can't be at 100% all the time... they are humans just like you and me and will go through rough stretches and exhibit bad habits from time to time. That's why his military style approach to playing the game doesn't work over the long haul. Players just get sick of him and want him gone

The funny thing is Tortorella is super flawed as a coach and human being (can't control himself worth a shit - throwing water bottles, starting fights), yet he expects perfection from his players. Unless he wants to find himself out of a job the next few months he needs to realize that sometimes players (especially the best ones on your team) will have to be catered to to keep them happy and productive, even if you don't like it. At least to a certain extent. Bullying them into being something they are not is a sure fire way to cause discord and drama.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he'll ever learn.

Pete
12-17-2015, 09:41 AM
He expects a certain level of effort. 100%.

It has absolutely nothing to do with expecting perfection. He's probably one of the better teaching coaches in the league.

That said, he's better off as an assistant.

lefty9
12-17-2015, 10:09 AM
I could see torts telling the head coach to take a seat up stairs for not doing his job correctly

Vodka Drunkenski
12-17-2015, 10:12 AM
He expects a certain level of effort. 100%. It has absolutely nothing to do with expecting perfection. He's probably one of the better teaching coaches in the league. That said, he's better off as an assistant.

Exactly, all players make mistakes. His problem is when you're not giving 100% effort resulting in lazy mistakes.

Phil in Absentia
12-17-2015, 10:15 AM
:tweet: @theScore: Blue Jackets' Ryan Johansen reportedly 'likely' to be a healthy scratch vs. the Coyotes. https://t.co/PrtCCMZGvn https://t.co/yv4JOF2oPb

Cash or Czech?
12-17-2015, 10:21 AM
It's interesting to note that Johansen has no NMC or NTC in his current contract and can be dealt anywhere in the league.

AmericanJesus
12-17-2015, 10:44 AM
It's interesting to note that Johansen has no NMC or NTC in his current contract and can be dealt anywhere in the league.

While this is true, it's kind of a unique time in the NHL. There are only a couple really terrible destinations as far as either current team strength or not to distant future team strength. And he's already at a team near the bottom of both those categories when you consider them without him. Carolina, Vancouver and Toronto would be somewhat lateral, with Toronto at least having the finances and the management in place to fix that rather quickly. Despite their record, NJ could be seen in that group as they're over achieving using rentals and great goal tending. Beyond that, he'd either be going to a team that's on the fast track towards being a contender (Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona and the like), a contender or at worst a team like Philly or Ottawa that's kind of middle of the road.

As far as places to live, depending on his personality, there could be worse places than Columbus.

Future
12-17-2015, 10:48 AM
As far as places to live, depending on his personality, there could be worse places than Columbus.
Like NYC lol

Future
12-17-2015, 11:01 AM
Man, the more I think about it, the more I'd push for this.

I'd have to think that torts would find G very valuable, and a young forward, like Hayes, should be something that CBJ wants to help offset the loss of Johansen. It just seems like this type of deal would work for both teams.

Cash or Czech?
12-17-2015, 11:37 AM
While this is true, it's kind of a unique time in the NHL. There are only a couple really terrible destinations as far as either current team strength or not to distant future team strength. And he's already at a team near the bottom of both those categories when you consider them without him. Carolina, Vancouver and Toronto would be somewhat lateral, with Toronto at least having the finances and the management in place to fix that rather quickly. Despite their record, NJ could be seen in that group as they're over achieving using rentals and great goal tending. Beyond that, he'd either be going to a team that's on the fast track towards being a contender (Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona and the like), a contender or at worst a team like Philly or Ottawa that's kind of middle of the road.

As far as places to live, depending on his personality, there could be worse places than Columbus.

I agree with all of this. But unlike a contract dispute where he can hold out, he can't do anything if he doesn't like the destination he is going to (location-wise).

Mike
12-17-2015, 12:39 PM
Columbus are still the worst team in the East. Johansen is still 2nd on the team in points. The past two teams Tortorella has coached, he has inhibited offensive production from his best players i.e. the Sedins in Vancouver and now limiting Johansen's ice time this year. To be honest, I hate Torts as an NHL coach. He's tough on his players but to the point where it's a detriment to the team. You're benching your star player in the third period of a game you need goals in. What kind of coaching is that? Who cares about sending a message mid-season when it's more important to win games.
Wrong attitude, and wrong assumption as well. He was absolute dog shit the first 2 periods, and displayed body language that no one wants to see as a player, or coach. Sometimes you cut your nose off to spite your face, but that wasn't the case here. Stats mean cock in the middle of a game.

Lt. Dan
12-17-2015, 01:38 PM
Can't trade me now #probthough http://twitter.com/RyanJohansen19/status/628248345559994368/photo/1

Lol

Morphinity
12-17-2015, 01:42 PM
That setup is so sick

Myusername
12-17-2015, 05:44 PM
Exactly, all players make mistakes. His problem is when you're not giving 100% effort resulting in lazy mistakes.

Again, it's absolutely unrealistic to expect 100% effort out of every player every game... it's not happening. Players have the same ups and downs in life that we all do (breaking up with gf's, sick relatives, depression, etc...), and those ups and downs wear on players and cause them to play below expectations. It happens and it's to be expected. Money doesn't turn people into emotionless robots.

There are players who mail it in irrespective of that, but I think there are better ways deal with than by treating those players as children who need to be reprimanded - which is essentially what Torts does. That shit doesn't fly

The guy is a decent coach with major personality issues... he's going to keep finding coaching gigs because of the former but won't be kept around long because of the latter.

Mike
12-17-2015, 05:48 PM
Again, it's absolutely unrealistic to expect 100% effort out of every player every game... it's not happening. Players have the same ups and downs in life that we all do (breaking up with gf's, sick relatives, depression, etc...), and those ups and downs wear on players and cause them to play below expectations. It happens and it's to be expected. Money doesn't turn people into emotionless robots.

There are players who mail it in irrespective of that, but I think there are better ways deal with than by treating those players as children who need to be reprimanded - which is essentially what Torts does. That shit doesn't fly

The guy is a decent coach with major personality issues... he's going to keep finding coaching gigs because of the former but won't be kept around long because of the latter.
Right, and the coaching staff knows exactly what's going on with each player. That's why there are times that players get lattitude. We don't see what they see. We don't know what they know. You can't make assumptions based on evidence we have above the surface only.

Vodka Drunkenski
12-17-2015, 05:58 PM
Again, it's absolutely unrealistic to expect 100% effort out of every player every game... it's not happening. Players have the same ups and downs in life that we all do (breaking up with gf's, sick relatives, depression, etc...), and those ups and downs wear on players and cause them to play below expectations. It happens and it's to be expected. Money doesn't turn people into emotionless robots. There are players who mail it in irrespective of that, but I think there are better ways deal with than by treating those players as children who need to be reprimanded - which is essentially what Torts does. That shit doesn't fly The guy is a decent coach with major personality issues... he's going to keep finding coaching gigs because of the former but won't be kept around long because of the latter.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, I figured that was understood.

Puck Head
12-17-2015, 07:19 PM
It's interesting to note that Johansen has no NMC or NTC in his current contract and can be dealt anywhere in the league.

Who worries about a NTC while playing in Columbus or Phoenix??
😜

Phil in Absentia
12-17-2015, 07:35 PM
Who worries about a NTC while playing in Columbus or Phoenix??
��

http://trlhockey.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/rick-nash.jpg

DiJock94
12-18-2015, 11:48 AM
Good send Nash back for Johansen

Dunny
12-18-2015, 01:10 PM
Get rid of our best player, that's the ticket.

Puck Head
12-18-2015, 05:03 PM
Get rid of our best player, that's the ticket.

We could be getting a better player back.

phillyb™
12-18-2015, 08:55 PM
holy shit.
just saw the pregame on msg150.
sounds like torts benching RYJO is working.

Phil in Absentia
12-27-2015, 11:13 PM
:tweet: @TheFourthPeriod: While all eyes are on Montreal making a move at some point after the roster freeze lifts, wouldn't shock me to see something out of Columbus

:tweet: @TheFourthPeriod: And if a trade does happen after freeze lifts, unless leaked, any announcement likely to be in morning.

--

This from David Pagnotta of TFP — a site whose lead story as of this post is "POILE KEEPING EYE ON NUGENT-HOPKINS, JOHANSEN"

Hmm...

Dunny
12-28-2015, 09:00 AM
That'd be a great deal. For Edmonton.

Pete
12-28-2015, 09:03 AM
That'd be a great deal. For Edmonton.
I didn't read that as trading Johansen for RNH.

Seems like NSH would be trading for either player. Possibly parting with a defenseman?

Phil in Absentia
12-28-2015, 10:04 AM
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. NSH deals one of their NHL roster defenders for Johanssen to get that much-needed first-line center. They've had Calle Järnkrok doing that duty.

Johanssen for Seth Jones?

Dunny
12-28-2015, 10:06 AM
Oh, I didn't read that well. Seemed a bit lopsided.

Phil in Absentia
12-28-2015, 10:22 AM
I dunno, I think that's pretty fair. Nashville is deep on the blueline.

Move up Ryan Ellis into his spot?

Josi/Weber
Jackman/Ellis
Ekholm/Granberg?

Dunny
12-28-2015, 11:02 AM
No, I meant a RNH/Johansen swap

Phil in Absentia
12-28-2015, 11:37 AM
After the club’s third straight loss on Sunday — a 3-2 defeat in Florida — Tortorella called the team “embarrassing” before laying into his veterans for a perceived lack of leadership.

“I’m not getting squat from the top players as far as that stuff,” he said, per the Columbus Dispatch. “I see weakness. I think we’re weak mentally, and it’s not the kids.

“I worry about the kids getting into bad habits by watching other people.”

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2015/12/28/torts-calls-jackets-embarrassing-and-weak-mentally-blasts-veteran-leaders/

Pete
12-28-2015, 12:27 PM
Good old Torts.

Slobberknocker
12-28-2015, 12:39 PM
what is the youth vet split there?

torts style i think fits more toward the kids though johansen is only 23. just seemed to me like the vets tuned him out here and in vancouver

Future
12-28-2015, 04:05 PM
what is the youth vet split there?

torts style i think fits more toward the kids though johansen is only 23. just seemed to me like the vets tuned him out here and in vancouver
I can't imagine Scotty Hartnell wants to hear anything Torts has to say, and the rhetoric is a repeat for Dubi. David Clarkson and Rene Bourque are pretty consistently inconsistent, in terms of effort.

So yea, there's probably something to that, though there's really no proof of any of that. I think they'd be a better team without those older guys though. There's a talented young core there, might be time to just hand the reigns to them and let Torts shape them the same way he did that core in NY.

Mike
12-28-2015, 04:10 PM
I can't imagine Scotty Hartnell wants to hear anything Torts has to say, and the rhetoric is a repeat for Dubi. David Clarkson and Rene Bourque are pretty consistently inconsistent, in terms of effort.

So yea, there's probably something to that, though there's really no proof of any of that. I think they'd be a better team without those older guys though. There's a talented young core there, might be time to just hand the reigns to them and let Torts shape them the same way he did that core in NY.

The proof is in their record, and what the coach sees every day.

Pete
12-28-2015, 06:53 PM
Seems like a divided group amongst vets.

##

Let's face it: the 2015-16 season is pretty much toast.

Coach John Tortorella called out his veteran players*and the team's leadership with stinging comments before Sunday's game in Florida, then watched his club get outshot 19-1 and trail 2-0 after one period to the Panthers.

The dialogue continued yesterday after the 45-minute skating session in Ice Haus.

Blue Jackets captain Nick Foligno disagreed with Tortorella's assessment of the club's leadership.

"I take that personally," Foligno said. "I feel we do have strong leadership. It’s a compound problem with a lot of other things going on. I agree to disagree in a sense. I know what he’s saying. Where we’re sitting, it comes from inside this room. I still believe in myself, I believe in the As, and who the leadership is. We’re working through a tough season and trying to find ourselves and find our games. If we do that, the leadership won’t be questioned at all."

Asked if he plan to talk to Tortorella about it,*Foligno thought for a moment:

"I don’t have any hard feelings. That’s his assessment and he has every right to think that. I have my own beliefs. I think we need to get stronger. I don’t know everything. It’s my first time being captain. I have a lot to learn. I think a lot of guys have a lot to learn. I think that’s what he means by it. I don’t think he’s questioning us as leaders, just saying we have a long way to go to get where we need to be."

But Tortorella does, absolutely, want this room to reach another level, and several other players echoed his sentiments, that the Blue Jackets' dressing room is just too ... how shall we put this nicely ... nice.

Guys get along very well. Captain Foligno is a wonderful person, by all accounts. Most of the guys are soft-spoken. Some who are outspoken have been neutered by management and coaches, past and present.

"It’s a little bit too much Mr. Nice Guy around here," Blue Jackets center Brandon Dubinsky said. "It starts with your own actions first, but we have to do a better job of keeping each other accountable and create some conflicts in here. Not enough conflict in here.

"We have a lot of guys who are mellow guys, nice guys, quiet guys … not a lot of conflict. Sometimes you need that."

Blue Jackets forward Scott Hartnell said the same thing. During his time in Philadelphia he was called out by captain Chris Pronger and by veteran Kimmo Timonen, his very close friend, he said.

"Did I like it? No. Did I need it? Yeah," Hartnell said. "We're maybe a little too on the gentlemanly side here, and that needs to change. Guys have to hold each other accountable more, on and off the ice."

##

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2015/12/its-time-to-get-real.html

Mike
12-28-2015, 07:03 PM
So the vets admittedly acknowledge what the coach is saying. What's the problem?

Pete
12-28-2015, 07:03 PM
Not all. Foligno clearly doesn't agree. He's being PC.

Lt. Dan
12-28-2015, 07:26 PM
Not all. Foligno clearly doesn't agree. He's being PC.

When was the last time a captain didn't speak like a vagina aka PC? I can't remember the last time a team captain called it like it is. Just a raw assessment of himself and the team

Pete
12-28-2015, 07:29 PM
When was the last time a captain didn't speak like a vagina aka PC? I can't remember the last time a team captain called it like it is. Just a raw assessment of himself and the team

Yea. True.

It says in the full article that many of the outspoken players got the "whack-a-mole" treatment from the coaches and upper management.

Puck Head
12-28-2015, 07:55 PM
Yea. True. It says in the full article that many of the outspoken players got the "whack-a-mole" treatment from the coaches and upper management.

Dubinsky and Hartnell?

Pete
12-28-2015, 07:58 PM
Dubinsky and Hartnell?

I dunno. Maybe? Not sure who else can be considered outspoken.

Mike
12-28-2015, 08:00 PM
Not all. Foligno clearly doesn't agree. He's being PC.

Foligno said he agrees to disagree in a sense, but knows what he's saying. As the captain, and a new captain, I don't expect him to call out his teammates publicly.

Mike
12-28-2015, 08:03 PM
I dunno. Maybe? Not sure who else can be considered outspoken.

Clarkson?

Slobberknocker
01-01-2016, 08:01 PM
Loved Hartnell's game in Philly but wonder if it was just a case of the barn door being open and the horse down the road as far as what Hartnell's game is like these days.