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View Full Version : [TSN] McKenzie: Change is in the Air in Pittsburgh



Phil in Absentia
12-09-2015, 02:26 PM
“Well, we’re going to have to do something to change things up. We have underachieved. We’ve definitely underachieved. We’re in a position where we shouldn’t be right now, and we know it. I am going to have to take a look at few things. Something needs to change.”

Ominous, no?

There's also some caution to be advised in that regard.

Historically, Rutherford is not a GM who is quick to fire coaches. Earlier this season, when Johnston was under siege, Rutherford dismissed the notion of a coaching change. If at all possible, he likes to hang in with his coaches.

It's believed he would much rather make a trade — for either a puck-moving defenceman or a skilled winger to play alongside Sidney Crosby, or maybe both — but those aren't easy deals to make for a Penguin franchise in a salary cap crunch that has already used some of its currency (draft picks and younger players) to acquire immediate help.

While a trade is almost always the preferred course of action in these situations, we'd be foolish to think a coaching change isn't on the table, especially if the losing continues and/or the Penguins continue to sit below the wild card playoff line.

I think it's probably safe to say the Pens may not be the easiest team in the world to coach. Johnston may not be the easiest coach to replace in mid-season either, if it comes to that.


Maybe the Penguins will win tonight and go on their merry way. Maybe a trade is on the horizon. Maybe the coach is on thin ice. Maybe this, maybe that, but as the GM himself said: "Something needs to change."

And you can't help but get the feeling if things don't go well for the Penguins tonight in Denver, something will change.

http://www.tsn.ca/change-is-in-the-air-in-pittsburgh-1.406642

RichieNextel305
12-09-2015, 02:33 PM
Getting Kessel just wasn't the move they needed. They needed more depth guys/character guys. Adding Kessel was such a late-90's Rangers move.

I think they're getting closer to the point where they may need to do something dramatic during the summer, such as investigating maybe moving Malkin or maybe even Crosby. I think they need a dramatic remake in that sense.

ThirtyONE
12-09-2015, 05:17 PM
I think most of the posters here actually believed the Pens would be worse after signing Kessel. Too many cooks in the kitchen and we all know EXACTLY how that works out.

Maybe now is the time they pull a full Jagr on Evgeni Malkin, outcast him, and eventually trade him to us!

Phil in Absentia
12-09-2015, 08:47 PM
Jágr wasn't dealt to the Rangers from the Pens. He went to the Caps first.

NYRangers92
12-09-2015, 09:10 PM
Man, can't believe its been almost a full decade of "maybe they'll trade for a skilled winger for Crosby" articles and comments. Also speaking of, you know who'd be a good skilled wing for Crosby (and who happens to be outscoring him)? Jagr hahaha.

Who is the replacement if you fire Johnston?

NYRangers92
12-09-2015, 09:29 PM
I've been staring at Mike Johnston's confounding hair for like ten minutes and I think I'm making the same face he is (which appears to be his resting "Wait what is happening in front of my eyes I don't understand" face)
http://cdn1.bloguin.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/26/2015/11/IMG_2256-645x356.png

Phil in Absentia
12-09-2015, 10:07 PM
Man, can't believe its been almost a full decade of "maybe they'll trade for a skilled winger for Crosby" articles and comments. Also speaking of, you know who'd be a good skilled wing for Crosby (and who happens to be outscoring him)? Jagr hahaha.

Who is the replacement if you fire Johnston?

Good question. My guess is Boucher, who coached Crosby in Junior.

NYRangers92
12-09-2015, 10:30 PM
Are there any coaching candidates out there that were hired and fired and potentially rehired by Jim Rutherford out there? Seems to be a stipulation with him

Pete
12-09-2015, 10:55 PM
Has there ever been a player who puts up more points but been less visually impressive than Crosby?

NYRangers92
12-09-2015, 11:03 PM
Has there ever been a player who puts up more points but been less visually impressive than Crosby?

Mark Recchi? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to prime Recchi but I would never pin him as a 1500 point guy

Pete
12-09-2015, 11:07 PM
Mark Recchi? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to prime Recchi but I would never pin him as a 1500 point guy
Nowhere near the hype.

NYRangers92
12-09-2015, 11:13 PM
OK well that wasnt a stated stipulation lol. All you said was visually impressive.

What about Joe Thornton?

Pete
12-09-2015, 11:31 PM
Maybe. Still not near the hype.

Given the talk... Is Crosby a bust.

RichieNextel305
12-09-2015, 11:48 PM
For the way he was portrayed to be? By definition, I guess you can call him a bust. But the hype put on him put him in a spot to be set up for failure, just like every "next one" after Gretzky. Injuries have derailed his career, but yeah. Given his talent level, having only one Cup with the teams they've had is a letdown.

Phil in Absentia
12-10-2015, 12:00 AM
Nah, even with the hype, he's not a bust. He's a walking Hall-of-Famer. 853 points in 627 games. Broke 100 points five times, Olympic gold, Stanley Cup, two-time Art Ross winner, two-time Hart winner, etc.

torontonyr
12-10-2015, 12:49 AM
Nah, even with the hype, he's not a bust. He's a walking Hall-of-Famer. 853 points in 627 games. Broke 100 points five times, Olympic gold, Stanley Cup, two-time Art Ross winner, two-time Hart winner, etc.

This. His injuries have to be accounted for, as well. Moreover, he made Dupuis look like an all-star for several years.

Pete
12-10-2015, 08:05 AM
I think he'll be remembered as a great individual player who never really fit on/in with his team.

Vodka Drunkenski
12-10-2015, 08:47 AM
Man, can't believe its been almost a full decade of "maybe they'll trade for a skilled winger for Crosby" articles and comments. Also speaking of, you know who'd be a good skilled wing for Crosby (and who happens to be outscoring him)? Jagr hahaha. Who is the replacement if you fire Johnston?

Jagr is not a good fit for Crosby. They both need the puck to be effective, it wouldn't work, similar to why it doesn't work with Kessel.

AmericanJesus
12-10-2015, 09:24 AM
Jagr is not a good fit for Crosby. They both need the puck to be effective, it wouldn't work, similar to why it doesn't work with Kessel.

A guy like Cammalleri would have been a good fit for Crosby. Someone who can find the openings Crosby creates by drawing attention and bury the puck consistently when he gets found.

Pete
12-10-2015, 10:26 AM
They have tried that type of move all the time. Hossa. Neal. Hornqvist.

They all wind up with Malkin in the end.

Morphinity
12-10-2015, 10:28 AM
Crosby is like that hot chick in school who is incredible in every way and could get any guy, and instead she winds up with Chris Fuckin' Kunitz.

Future
12-10-2015, 10:38 AM
Nah, even with the hype, he's not a bust. He's a walking Hall-of-Famer. 853 points in 627 games. Broke 100 points five times, Olympic gold, Stanley Cup, two-time Art Ross winner, two-time Hart winner, etc.
Yea but he's a huge douche, which basically means -.5 ppg. That means he's really only 427 points in 627 games. That's not HOF worth in my book.

torontonyr
12-10-2015, 11:10 AM
I think that Crosby and Chris Kreider would be lethal, but that's just my own nutjob theory.

RichieNextel305
12-10-2015, 11:29 AM
Let me ask this. If (or perhaps when) Pittsburgh ever does decide to move on from one of those 2 freaks they have, who would they move? Would they move Malkin, who quite honestly may be the safer bet at this point in time? Or would they move Crosby, the face of the franchise and of the organization?

Future
12-10-2015, 11:38 AM
Let me ask this. If (or perhaps when) Pittsburgh ever does decide to move on from one of those 2 freaks they have, who would they move? Would they move Malkin, who quite honestly may be the safer bet at this point in time? Or would they move Crosby, the face of the franchise and of the organization?
I think if they move one they might as well move both. They can't win with both of them, they probably aren't going to win with one of them.

Tanking is so hot right now. Might as well.

RichieNextel305
12-10-2015, 11:45 AM
I disagree there. The pieces you'd be receiving by moving one would increase their depth, which is not a strength for them. It's not as if they're ions away from contending. They're contending right now. At any given time they can erupt and go off.

Future
12-10-2015, 02:13 PM
I disagree there. The pieces you'd be receiving by moving one would increase their depth, which is not a strength for them. It's not as if they're ions away from contending. They're contending right now. At any given time they can erupt and go off.
They can erupt b/c they have maybe two of the 5 best centers in the game. If you move one of them, then you're depth is pretty much the same, it's just spread out...and that's assuming your return is as good as what you sent out. Either one of those guys can carry the team on any given night and they have a goalie who can steal games as well, there might not be another team in the league who can say that.

The idea of trading super stars for depth just doesn't work for me, regardless. I think CBJ was stupid in the Nash trade, for instance. The sum of a bunch of decent players almost never reaches the total of a superstar.

My thought, if I'm Pitt, is give it a run for a year or two with both of them, and then clean house and tank. The haul of young players and picks that you'd get for those guys puts you in a position to draft depth while, at the same time, have a couple of lottery picks that get you your Crosbys and Malkins.

!br-avery!
12-10-2015, 02:33 PM
I'd assume they'd move Malkin ,they could get some great pieces for him. He'd probably flourish again somewhere else.

NYRangers92
12-10-2015, 02:47 PM
They'e in a rough spot for at least this season, in terms of potentially being a buyer for the playoff run, because they have nothing to give.

Mike
12-10-2015, 05:10 PM
I think that Crosby and Chris Kreider would be lethal, but that's just my own nutjob theory.

That's like teaming up the smartest kid with the dumbest kid in school for a project. They'll still get an A because the smart kid won't accept failure, but the dumb fuck didn't contribute shit to the project yet still gets an A.

Phil in Absentia
12-10-2015, 05:14 PM
Let me ask this. If (or perhaps when) Pittsburgh ever does decide to move on from one of those 2 freaks they have, who would they move? Would they move Malkin, who quite honestly may be the safer bet at this point in time? Or would they move Crosby, the face of the franchise and of the organization?

Conventional wisdom says Malkin, simply to avoid the PR shitstorm that is trading your team captian and what that might say about him as a player or a leader.

But those are winds that could change at the drop of a dime by the point they actually might consider it.

Mike
12-10-2015, 05:18 PM
Conventional wisdom says Malkin, simply to avoid the PR shitstorm that is trading your team captian and what that might say about him as a player or a leader.

But those are winds that could change at the drop of a dime by the point they actually might consider it.

They will trade the player that gets them what they believe is the best return. The media frenzy will eventually fade away, but the team will still be there.

ThirtyONE
12-10-2015, 08:59 PM
Maybe. Still not near the hype.

Given the talk... Is Crosby a bust.

Bust? I mean he's arguably the best player in the league. Not sure how you can say that. He's not Wayne Gretzky but no one could ever live up to that.

Ranger Lothbrok
12-10-2015, 11:20 PM
That's like teaming up the smartest kid with the dumbest kid in school for a project. They'll still get an A because the smart kid won't accept failure, but the dumb fuck didn't contribute shit to the project yet still gets an A.

HAHAHAHAHA. I shouldn't laugh at our own players, but this is one of those Jerry Seinfeld "funny because it's true" comments. Well done.

Pete
12-11-2015, 09:16 AM
Bust? I mean he's arguably the best player in the league. Not sure how you can say that. He's not Wayne Gretzky but no one could ever live up to that.
Because context. Given the hype, he's delivered on little.

He hasn't been the best player in the league for probably 5 years.

He's certainly never been the most fun to watch.

DiJock94
12-11-2015, 09:48 AM
I remember it took a long time for us to finally start to click after vigneault we were a bad team for the first half of his first year. I think they need to be patient and they will end up going off.

Dunny
12-11-2015, 10:10 AM
Because context. Given the hype, he's delivered on little.

He hasn't been the best player in the league for probably 5 years.

He's certainly never been the most fun to watch.

He was most definitely the best player in 2013-2014.

What exactly hasn't he delivered on? His #'s will never stun people because he didn't play in 1988. He hasn't won 5 cups? He isn't as visually appealing as you'd like him to be?

Pete
12-11-2015, 11:24 AM
He was most definitely the best player in 2013-2014.

What exactly hasn't he delivered on? His #'s will never stun people because he didn't play in 1988. He hasn't won 5 cups? He isn't as visually appealing as you'd like him to be?

He's not fun to watch, they've been looking for "a skilled winger to play with" for his entire career, he's only managed to make 2 players around him better, ever.

I'm not saying he sucks. I'm saying he was over-hyped. That's not really his fault.

Mike
12-11-2015, 12:05 PM
A player of Crosby's caliber at younger ages pre NHL are considered a generational talent. When you have a player that everyone knows is the next coming, it's impossible to predict he wouldn't do everything great on the ice. Making players around you better is something that would be a given, and overlooked when you're duscussing a player like him. McDavid is up next, no one has pointed out any faults he has, yet. We'll see what the future brings.

Future
12-11-2015, 12:53 PM
A player of Crosby's caliber at younger ages pre NHL are considered a generational talent. When you have a player that everyone knows is the next coming, it's impossible to predict he wouldn't do everything great on the ice. Making players around you better is something that would be a given, and overlooked when you're duscussing a player like him. McDavid is up next, no one has pointed out any faults he has, yet. We'll see what the future brings.
Injury prone, misses more than half the games his team plays.

He's basically Joffrey Lupul

Mike
12-11-2015, 01:10 PM
Injury prone, misses more than half the games his team plays.

He's basically Joffrey Lupul

Who said that? How is he injury prone? He's 18 years old. He missed time last year because of a fight. He has nothing chronic.

Dunny
12-11-2015, 01:15 PM
I agree re: McDavid. He's a lot like Crosby. People will be disappointed he's not on the highlight reel every night.

Future
12-11-2015, 01:19 PM
Who said that? How is he injury prone? He's 18 years old. He missed time last year because of a fight. He has nothing chronic.
lol, I was kidding.

Mike
12-11-2015, 01:22 PM
lol, I was kidding.

Oh, ok ... I thought you were on HF

Pete
12-11-2015, 01:22 PM
I agree re: McDavid. He's a lot like Crosby. People will be disappointed he's not on the highlight reel every night.

Semin got a lot of shit for what he said about Crosby vs. Kane, but in a way he was spot on. Kane is an electrifying player. There's nothing really exciting about Crosby. That's not saying he sucks. But i would pay money to see Kane, or Ovechkin, or Datsyuk over Crosby.

Mike
12-11-2015, 01:25 PM
I agree re: McDavid. He's a lot like Crosby. People will be disappointed he's not on the highlight reel every night.

Crosby was on the highlight reel for his first couple of seasons. Then he became even a smarter player, and won a cup. He's 1-2 seconds ahead of everyone else in every unpredictable manner possible. A player that puts up the points he does without making everyone around him better, is even better than we think.

Mike
12-11-2015, 01:27 PM
Semin got a lot of shit for what he said about Crosby vs. Kane, but in a way he was spot on. Kane is an electrifying player. There's nothing really exciting about Crosby. That's not saying he sucks. But i would pay money to see Kane, or Ovechkin, or Datsyuk over Crosby.

He's definitely not electrifying like those guys. I think Kane and Datsyuk make players around them better. Not so much with Ovi.

Pete
12-11-2015, 01:32 PM
He's definitely not electrifying like those guys. I think Kane and Datsyuk make players around them better. Not so much with Ovi.
Agree. But ovi is fun to watch by himself.

Mike
12-11-2015, 01:37 PM
Agree. But ovi is fun to watch by himself.

For sure

Puck Head
12-11-2015, 07:25 PM
Kane is perhaps the most entertaining player in the league along with a healthy Datsyuk.
That being said, Kane isn't the quality of player like Datsyuk....he probably isn't even the best forward on his team.

But he's easily could get there.

Pete
12-11-2015, 07:43 PM
He's by far the best offensive player on his team, but of course Toews is the best all around player.

Slobberknocker
12-12-2015, 09:22 AM
I'd assume they'd move Malkin ,they could get some great pieces for him. He'd probably flourish again somewhere else.

we could so use malkin on our team. guy shows up in the playoffs as well.

there's not a player on our roster i wouldn't give up for him.

NYRangers92
12-12-2015, 11:43 AM
:tweet: @penguins: Mike Johnston and Gary Agnew relieved of their coaching duties. Mike Sullivan named new Head Coach of the Penguins. http://pens.pe/1O1O3FK

EdMc28
12-12-2015, 12:08 PM
Is Torts still going to call the Penguins whiners with his best friend behind the bench?

RichieNextel305
12-12-2015, 12:10 PM
Good move by them. Maybe that group needs someone who is gonna kick them in the ass a little bit. Regardless of anything, atleast you know Sullivan will.

Puck Head
12-12-2015, 02:00 PM
He's by far the best offensive player on his team, but of course Toews is the best all around player.

Oh agreed
My point was as Kane matures in all aspects of game (like Datsyuk did around that age)....he could easily be considered the top player in this league.

Yzerman, Sakic, Etc all went through this process

NYRangers92
12-14-2015, 03:17 PM
Girlfriend got tickets for tonight. She likes Mike Sullivan a lot for some reason.

phillyb™
12-14-2015, 03:19 PM
have fun!
hope they lose.

NYRangers92
12-14-2015, 03:24 PM
I've been trying to think of the games I've been to and I dont think I've ever seen the Ovechkin era Capitals