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View Full Version : Confirmed: CBJ Fire Todd Richards, Hire John Tortorella



Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 09:24 AM
:tweet: @Aportzline: #CBJ have fired Todd Richards, hired John Tortorella. @DarrenDreger reports.

:tweet: @DarrenDreger: Todd Richards out in CBJ. Torts in.

:tweet: @DarrenDreger: Todd Richards has the remainder of this season and next on his contract at just under $1 million per. He will coach in the league again.

--

It happened!

AmericanJesus
10-21-2015, 09:29 AM
Wish he was out West, but the league is a more entertaining place with Torts behind the bench somewhere.

AmericanJesus
10-21-2015, 09:32 AM
Also, maybe they claim Glass. He seems like a Torts type guy. We should start putting together a package for Ryan Johansen. Girardi, McIlrath, plus....?

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 09:33 AM
:tweet: @reporterchris: The #canucks get a third-round pick from #CBJ as compensation for the John Tortorella hiring.

:tweet: @reporterchris: This is a good time to reiterate how little sense the NHL's compensation rule makes. The league plans to review it in 2016.

--

Insane. Third-round pick for a guy who was fired and just sitting around collecting a paycheck? I can't wait for the NHL to ban this bullshit.

But back to your regularly scheduled Torts!

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 09:39 AM
:tweet: @reporterchris: Wait! I'm told the #canucks actually get a second-round pick from Columbus because John Tortorella's hiring comes in-season.

WOW. This bullshit can't be banned fast enough.

Pete
10-21-2015, 09:42 AM
Jackets are gonna be so bad. Can't wait to see Johansen request a trade.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
10-21-2015, 09:47 AM
Jackets are gonna be so bad. Can't wait to see Johansen request a trade.

it's weird. I really thought they'd contend for the division this year. Such a change from last year. When they were healthy they were really good, even after they were clinched out of the playoffs, they still made it tough on alot of teams. Wonder where that motivation went?

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 09:48 AM
I actually think they're gonna rally around him, at leat for this year. The thing with Tortorella is that he's a short range coach. It's years two or three where the message gets old fast and the teams tend to mutiny and quit on him.

AmericanJesus
10-21-2015, 09:49 AM
:tweet: Down Goes Brown ‏@DownGoesBrown Torts: Now throw your body in front of the shot and block it.
Players: Um…coach? That’s the goal celebration cannon.
Torts: I SAID BLOCK IT!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CR2FUUvWUAAF1Rl.jpg

lefty9
10-21-2015, 09:51 AM
Torts get reunited with dubi

Mike
10-21-2015, 09:53 AM
Jackets are gonna be so bad. Can't wait to see Johansen request a trade.

Gonna be so bad? It can't get worse than winless. I have no idea how JT will do there, but I wish him luck. A lot will depend on whether or not he has, or can make better adjustments. Imo, the only team he failed to do that with was Vancouver. He can squeeze every ounce of good play out of his guys, and get them to perform.

lefty9
10-21-2015, 09:53 AM
:tweet: @reporterchris: Wait! I'm told the #canucks actually get a second-round pick from Columbus because John Tortorella's hiring comes in-season.

WOW. This bullshit can't be banned fast enough.you right, it's bullshit

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 09:54 AM
I'm so fucking excited. This is awesome.

Dunny
10-21-2015, 09:56 AM
Vancouver gets a 2nd rounder? Can the NHL get any dumber?

What stops us from hiring 15 coaches one week, firing them the next and then reaping all those picks as they get hired by other teams?

Kevin
10-21-2015, 09:57 AM
Good for torts! We'll see him a lot more often now so we'll be sure to hate him in no time!

AmericanJesus
10-21-2015, 10:01 AM
:tweet: Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun No truth to the rumor that @NYP_Brooksie has been traded to the Columbus Dispatch.

This is the hockey equivalent of Donald Trump running for president for writers.

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 10:03 AM
I hope Torts turn things around for himself and gains some respect, because after what went down in Vancouver, a lot of people who will have quite a bit of schadenfreude at his failure.

Cash or Czech?
10-21-2015, 10:03 AM
I hate Torts as a coach, personally. The Jackets are built for his style, but ultimately that defense is too shitty to succeed without a major upgrade or two.

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 10:29 AM
:tweet: @TSNBobMcKenzie: John Tortorella's contract with CBJ is for this season and two more, same as his remaining time on VAN contract. VAN paying "some of it."

JOHN
10-21-2015, 10:54 AM
Vancouver gets a 2nd rounder? Can the NHL get any dumber?

What stops us from hiring 15 coaches one week, firing them the next and then reaping all those picks as they get hired by other teams?

Why wasn't that the strategy in Toronto?

Mike
10-21-2015, 10:57 AM
It's a bit over the top with the draft picks, but a coach is only relieved from coaching the team. He's not relieved of performing other tasks for the franchise. It's in their contract that THEY sign. If Vancouver tell Torts to go scout a 16U showcase game in Cleveland, he has to go.

Mike
10-21-2015, 10:58 AM
Why wasn't that the strategy in Toronto?


No one wants Toronto coaches?

JOHN
10-21-2015, 10:59 AM
No one wants Toronto coaches?

I see your point.

Future
10-21-2015, 11:14 AM
I hate Torts as a coach, personally. The Jackets are built for his style, but ultimately that defense is too shitty to succeed without a major upgrade or two.
I think Torts' approach actually allows you to succeed without great individual defensemen. WAS and PIT both have crappy defensemen but they shut down the Rangers by simply packing it in, which is at least part of what he'll do in CBJ.

He did have a great D group when we went to the conference finals though.

Mike
10-21-2015, 11:18 AM
I think Torts' approach actually allows you to succeed without great individual defensemen. WAS and PIT both have crappy defensemen but they shut down the Rangers by simply packing it in, which is at least part of what he'll do in CBJ.

He did have a great D group when we went to the conference finals though.

We played those playoffs with 4D




Del Zotto, and






























Stu Bickel.

You can not win in the playoffs like that. Impossible.

NYR2711
10-21-2015, 11:44 AM
I hate Torts as a coach, personally. The Jackets are built for his style, but ultimately that defense is too shitty to succeed without a major upgrade or two.

I see it this way too. Columbus is built like the Rangers were when Torts was here. I wonder now if Girardi would accept a trade to Columbus. He would fit nicely under Torts there, its gonna be his style of play, and isn't he tight with Dubi as well?

ThirtyONE
10-21-2015, 01:04 PM
God, I love Columbus

Slobberknocker
10-21-2015, 01:05 PM
:popcorn:

Get ready to skate boys. Party is over.

Future
10-21-2015, 01:14 PM
We played those playoffs with 4D




Del Zotto, and






























Stu Bickel.

You can not win in the playoffs like that. Impossible.
Forgot that was the year that Sauer got hurt.

Cash or Czech?
10-21-2015, 01:46 PM
I think Torts' approach actually allows you to succeed without great individual defensemen. WAS and PIT both have crappy defensemen but they shut down the Rangers by simply packing it in, which is at least part of what he'll do in CBJ.

He did have a great D group when we went to the conference finals though.

He is also a coach that kills offense. The Sedins and the entire damn team had their worst offensive seasons under his reign, and then they resumed right where they were at once they fired him. Johansen and Foligno's overall numbers are going to suffer with this change.

Not sure of when you are referring to with the bolded part of your post. Last year's playoffs? That has nothing to do with Torts.

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 01:50 PM
He is also a coach that kills offense. The Sedins and the entire damn team had their worst offensive seasons under his reign, and then they resumed right where they were at once they fired him. Johansen and Foligno's overall numbers are going to suffer with this change.

Not sure of when you are referring to with the bolded part of your post. Last year's playoffs? That has nothing to do with Torts.

That's if you assume that the gameplan Torts rolled out the last time he was in the NHL (which ended up as a major disaster) is going to be the same one that's rolled out with CBJ. IIRC, Torts has admitted that he's looking to adjust more for the modern NHL.

I'm excited to see what Torts has come up with while in exile.

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 01:55 PM
That's if you assume that the gameplan Torts rolled out the last time he was in the NHL (which ended up as a major disaster) is going to be the same one that's rolled out with CBJ. IIRC, Torts has admitted that he's looking to adjust more for the modern NHL.

I'm excited to see what Torts has come up with while in exile.

Actually, even if it is the same, I'm not sure what Alex is saying is true specifically becuase of the makeup of both clubs. With VAN, Tortorella was stepping into a skilled roster, asking a lot of players to play in a manner they never had before.

The makeup of the CBJ roster seems like it'd be a lot easier for him to work with out of the gate.

Mike
10-21-2015, 02:04 PM
Didn't Gaborik have 2 out of his 3 best seasons under Tortorella, including 2 40+ goal seasons? JT didn't kill the offense here, because there was no offense here when he was the coach.

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 02:13 PM
Actually, even if it is the same, I'm not sure what Alex is saying is true specifically becuase of the makeup of both clubs. With VAN, Tortorella was stepping into a skilled roster, asking a lot of players to play in a manner they never had before.

The makeup of the CBJ roster seems like it'd be a lot easier for him to work with out of the gate.

Yes. And a "clog up the shooting lanes" style can work in this NHL. The Washington Capitals did it last year and nearly made it to the Conference Finals.

Mike
10-21-2015, 02:16 PM
They've given up 34 goals in 7 games with a Vezina goaltender in net. They could afford to clog up a shooting lane or 2.

Lt. Dan
10-21-2015, 02:23 PM
Didn't Gaborik have 2 out of his 3 best seasons under Tortorella, including 2 40+ goal seasons? JT didn't kill the offense here, because there was no offense here when he was the coach.

Will rep later.

TheDozen
10-21-2015, 02:31 PM
I'm a bit surprised CBJ sacrificed a second round pick.

Future
10-21-2015, 02:46 PM
Not sure of when you are referring to with the bolded part of your post. Last year's playoffs? That has nothing to do with Torts.
They essentially played Torts style hockey. Just clog up the lanes with bodies, doesn't matter who they are.

Cash or Czech?
10-21-2015, 03:34 PM
They essentially played Torts style hockey. Just clog up the lanes with bodies, doesn't matter who they are.

We beat both of those teams, so obviously it wasn't that effective.

Cash or Czech?
10-21-2015, 03:36 PM
Actually, even if it is the same, I'm not sure what Alex is saying is true specifically becuase of the makeup of both clubs. With VAN, Tortorella was stepping into a skilled roster, asking a lot of players to play in a manner they never had before.

The makeup of the CBJ roster seems like it'd be a lot easier for him to work with out of the gate.

The defense will get better, but IMO the offense is going to suffer. That may not be a bad thing for CBJ who have the worst team save percentage in the league, but it's not what Vancouver needed and he failed as a result. Their top line is also probably the most talented group of 3 players Torts will have had to work with since his Tampa Bay days.

Mike
10-21-2015, 04:17 PM
The defense will get better, but IMO the offense is going to suffer. That may not be a bad thing for CBJ who have the worst team save percentage in the league, but it's not what Vancouver needed and he failed as a result. Their top line is also probably the most talented group of 3 players Torts will have had to work with since his Tampa Bay days.

So why downplay what he did here, or in Vancouver for that matter? When he had the offensive talent, he won a cup. When he didn't, he was still successul.

Phil in Absentia
10-21-2015, 04:23 PM
The defense will get better, but IMO the offense is going to suffer. That may not be a bad thing for CBJ who have the worst team save percentage in the league, but it's not what Vancouver needed and he failed as a result. Their top line is also probably the most talented group of 3 players Torts will have had to work with since his Tampa Bay days.

Right, I already said, with Vancouver it was a bad fit from day one. He was a square peg stuffed into a round hole. With Columbus, he's stepping into a team that closely resembles the Ranger' squad he took over and turned into a winning product.

He's a short-term coach, but short-term, there's enough in Columbus for him to find success IMO. Even if Johanssen scores five less goals a year, I doubt it'll matter to fans if the team is winning.

Pete
10-21-2015, 04:38 PM
So why downplay what he did here, or in Vancouver for that matter? When he had the offensive talent, he won a cup. When he didn't, he was still successul.

Based simply on his last job, which is all we can judge him on, he refused to adapt his style, even though he had talent up from on that roster. If he goes into CBJ and tries to play like the '13 Rangers, they aren't going to win a lot. The league is so different now than 11-12.

Mike
10-21-2015, 04:49 PM
Based simply on his last job, which is all we can judge him on, he refused to adapt his style, even though he had talent up from on that roster. If he goes into CBJ and tries to play like the '13 Rangers, they aren't going to win a lot. The league is so different now than 11-12.

I can't go by that one poor season even though it was the most recent.

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 05:11 PM
What if I said that Tort's style isn't clog, super defensive hockey - but that's how he needed NYR to play given how shit our depth/defense were?

Dunny
10-21-2015, 05:20 PM
What if I said that Tort's style isn't clog, super defensive hockey - but that's how he needed NYR to play given how shit our depth/defense were?

I think that's a good point.

Pete
10-21-2015, 05:21 PM
What if I said that Tort's style isn't clog, super defensive hockey - but that's how he needed NYR to play given how shit our depth/defense were?


I think that's a good point.

Then I'd ask why he was doing it in Vancouver, too?

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 05:22 PM
No. It's his style. He tried it in Vancouver and failed.

The Rangers defense wasn't that shit, by the way. They had really bad 6th D options, but that was really it. I'm talking mainly about 2011-2012, since that was prototypical NYR/Torts hockey.

Pete
10-21-2015, 05:27 PM
I mean, I was one of Tort's biggest supporters. I like his approach as a coach, I don't mind that he's hard on players.

But, the style that the NYR played 3-4 years ago can't be successful in the NHL now. It's the style that the Kings, Bruins and Jackets all play (heavy hockey), and they are all not very good.

Now, Torts did not move away from that style in Vancouver with a more skilled roster. I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm saying that he hasn't yet shown that he can, yet. And I'm saying that he has to if he wants to win.

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 05:37 PM
Then I'd ask why he was doing it in Vancouver, too?

Did you see their defense?

And for what it's worth, despite everything said in the media, he did alter his style. Yes he used some of it, blocking shots went slightly up, zone D, aggressive play, fitness, but it wasn't solely defensive while he was there.

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 05:43 PM
What do you mean "solely defensive"? That's not a thing. The Rangers weren't "solely defensive" either. Numerous key players had big time offensive years because Torts preached defensive prominence.

And what happened in Vancouver was an abortion because it was never going to work in the first place.

Mike
10-21-2015, 05:49 PM
What do you mean "solely defensive"? That's not a thing. The Rangers weren't "solely defensive" either. Numerous key players had big time offensive years because Torts preached defensive prominence.

And what happened in Vancouver was an abortion because it was never going to work in the first place.
I feel like he jumped aboard an already sinking ship, while wearing 25lb weights on his ankles.

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 05:53 PM
I feel like he jumped aboard an already sinking ship, while wearing 25lb weights on his ankles.

Definitely. He never radioed for help though. He thought he could keep the ship afloat if he blocked the water from coming in.

Pete
10-21-2015, 06:01 PM
Did you see their defense?

And for what it's worth, despite everything said in the media, he did alter his style. Yes he used some of it, blocking shots went slightly up, zone D, aggressive play, fitness, but it wasn't solely defensive while he was there.
Not sure how that's an excuse. He had a great defense here and still went the same route.

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 06:20 PM
Not sure how that's an excuse. He had a great defense here and still went the same route.

Stu Bickel + MDZ = good?

Pete
10-21-2015, 06:29 PM
Stu Bickel + MDZ = good?
You're talking about two defenseman out of maybe 10, and Bickel was a 7th.

MDZ had his best career year under JT.

It's all a non point. The Canucks roster is no excuse for his system. He had the Sedins PKing and shot blocking.

If you want to have a debate, let's have a serious one. This is just disingenuous.

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 09:20 PM
You're talking about two defenseman out of maybe 10, and Bickel was a 7th.

MDZ had his best career year under JT.

It's all a non point. The Canucks roster is no excuse for his system. He had the Sedins PKing and shot blocking.

If you want to have a debate, let's have a serious one. This is just disingenuous.

I don't want to have a debate. I'm not sure how we entered into this based merely on a hypthetical, and frankly conversation-driving, examination of his coaching style.

As much as I appreciate what you're saying, I don't owe you a researched and informed debate based solely on a comment intended to play as devil's advocate. He definitely has a system, but expecting star players to play different roles isn't defensive in style. It's a shift in responsibility, evening out the load - so to speak. I'm not going to pretend that the Vancouver Canucks weren't more defensive under Tortorella, but that's what he was brought in to do. That's not how he played in Tampa, where he famously had a slogan that defined the word "Safe".

What I see with Torts in NYC and in Vancouvr is a coach who turned an admittedly soft and mediocre team in the Rangers, into a defensive contender for the stanley cup. With that accomplished, he was given another job in the NHL based upon those abilities. Is that "John Tortorella" hockey. I mean, to a degree, yeah. Even responsibility, not sheltering star players, hard practices. But to say he's a defensive coach? I don't buy it. I think he's an adaptable coach who created a staunch defensive system with a *mediocre* defense in the Rangers, and was asked to duplicate it in Vancouver.

Your point about MDZ having his best year under torts is moot, as it at very least implies that he's an offensive coach that has gotten the best out of a completely offensive player. Heck, for my money, I'd be comfortable saying AV is a more defensive coach than Tortorella, despite appearances.

Mike
10-21-2015, 09:24 PM
He's obviously capable of change. He didn't coach the Rangers the same way he coached Tampa. He makes adjustments, he's just stubborn in other areas. Those areas might cause friction between him and the players. I'm pretty sure he admitted he's stubborn publicly in an interview recently. Isn't he the winningest American born coach? I could be wrong.

Pete
10-21-2015, 09:47 PM
He's obviously capable of change. He didn't coach the Rangers the same way he coached Tampa. He makes adjustments, he's just stubborn in other areas. Those areas might cause friction between him and the players. I'm pretty sure he admitted he's stubborn publicly in an interview recently. Isn't he the winningest American born coach? I could be wrong.

You're talking about someone who changed about 9 years ago...And then had a chance to change 2 years ago and didn't...So why aren't we going on recency?

Pete
10-21-2015, 09:56 PM
Lots of backtracking and spin here. Let's go point by point.


I don't want to have a debate. I'm not sure how we entered into this based merely on a hypthetical, and frankly conversation-driving, examination of his coaching style.

As much as I appreciate what you're saying, I don't owe you a researched and informed debate based solely on a comment intended to play as devil's advocate. Well then you're trolling.


He definitely has a system, but expecting star players to play different roles isn't defensive in style. It's a shift in responsibility, evening out the load - so to speak. I'm not going to pretend that the Vancouver Canucks weren't more defensive under Tortorella, but that's what he was brought in to do. That's not how he played in Tampa, where he famously had a slogan that defined the word "Safe". Tampa was over a decade ago. It's irrelevant. This is spin, and nothing more. To try and say Torts isn't a defensive oriented coach is just revisionist in every way. There is no debate that he's defensively oriented, as in his focus being on coaching the defensive side of the puck...the debate is if that stifles the offense or not.


What I see with Torts in NYC and in Vancouvr is a coach who turned an admittedly soft and mediocre team in the Rangers, into a defensive contender for the stanley cup. With that accomplished, he was given another job in the NHL based upon those abilities. Is that "John Tortorella" hockey. I mean, to a degree, yeah. Even responsibility, not sheltering star players, hard practices. But to say he's a defensive coach? I don't buy it. I think he's an adaptable coach who created a staunch defensive system with a *mediocre* defense in the Rangers, and was asked to duplicate it in Vancouver.It doesn't matter what you buy. His reputation and resume speak for themselves. Torts hasn't coached a team capable of offense in over a decade. It's by his doing (Vancouver) as well as by roster makeup (NYR).


Your point about MDZ having his best year under torts is moot, as it at very least implies that he's an offensive coach that has gotten the best out of acompletely offensive player. You brought up MDZ not, me, on some type of cheap tactic to prove the Rangers didn't have one of the best defenses in the league, even though we all know they did. Not sure where you were going, there.


Heck, for my money, I'd be comfortable saying AV is a more defensive coach than Tortorella, despite appearances.This is really just a grey area and a comment with not much substance. Every single coach teaches defensive due diligence. All 30. Every one. The differences are the plan with the puck, and AV actually has one, while Torts pretty much left it up to the players to figure out. And when you have a bunch of offensive simpletons like Callahan and Dubsinsky as your top line, the results are being in the bottom of the league goals for.

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 10:08 PM
Lots of backtracking and spin here. Let's go point by point.

Well then you're trolling.

Okie dokie. End of conversation.

Pete
10-21-2015, 10:09 PM
Okie dokie. End of conversation.
:thumbs:

Morphinity
10-21-2015, 10:12 PM
Who joins a discussion with a comment that is "conversation-driving" and then leaves said conversation when pressed for an explanation on that comment?

Mike
10-21-2015, 10:28 PM
You're talking about someone who changed about 9 years ago...And then had a chance to change 2 years ago and didn't...So why aren't we going on recency?

I stated that he admitted his mistakes in an interview recently. He's not a stupid guy, so I'll assume he's going to adjust a bit in order not to replicate his recent past.

Pete
10-21-2015, 10:29 PM
I stated that he admitted his mistakes in an interview recently. He's not a stupid guy, so I'll assume he's going to adjust a bit in order not to replicate his recent past.
I guess we have to wait and see what he considers a mistake.

Mike
10-21-2015, 10:31 PM
I guess we have to wait and see what he considers a mistake.

First, I'm guessing that we won't be seeing him entering the other team's locker room between periods.

Pete
10-21-2015, 10:32 PM
First, I'm guessing that we won't be seeing him entering the other team's locker room between periods.
I was looking forward to that the most....

Mike
10-21-2015, 10:45 PM
I was looking forward to that the most....

All it takes is the other team starting their 4th line.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-21-2015, 11:02 PM
Stu Bickel will be taking that faceoff

torontonyr
10-21-2015, 11:38 PM
Who joins a discussion with a comment that is "conversation-driving" and then leaves said conversation when pressed for an explanation on that comment?

It's not that I left when pressed for an explanation, I think it's pretty straight forward. I left when being told that I'm diengenious and a "troll"

fletch
10-22-2015, 12:09 AM
Happy for Torts that he gets another opportunity. He has a chance to get Columbus pointed in the right direction. Good luck to him.

Pete
10-22-2015, 06:50 AM
It's not that I left when pressed for an explanation, I think it's pretty straight forward. I left when being told that I'm diengenious and a "troll"

I didn't call you a troll. I don't consider you a toll, but I said in this case you were trolling. Entering a debate and dropping a comment that you have no intention of backing up is trolling.

But you did try and back it up, and when the facts didn't align with your opinion, you said you didn't owe me a debate based on a "conversation - driving" comment. Well, you can't have it both ways. You're dropping a comment to drive conversation, then saying you don't owe anyone a debate? You didn't have to answer me when I quoted you... But you did.

Trying to say the Rangers didn't have one of the best defense corps in the league because Bickel was a 7th is disingenuous.

So not really sure why you took issue with 2 accurate comments.

Mike
10-22-2015, 08:33 AM
Why was Bickel dressing in playoff games? Was someone hurt? I know DZ was fucked up during the playoffs, which had them playing D in the playoffs similar to a 10:30 D5 game at the Ice House.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-22-2015, 08:40 AM
It was either him or Eminger

Pete
10-22-2015, 08:51 AM
At that point it didn't matter. Torts goes 3 lines and 4 D in the playoffs, back to his Tampa days.

Mike
10-22-2015, 09:08 AM
At that point it didn't matter. Torts goes 3 lines and 4 D in the playoffs, back to his Tampa days.

That wasn't just him in those days, that was the norm for a lot of teams. 5/6 D didn't get much ice time

Pete
10-22-2015, 09:09 AM
That wasn't just him in those days, that was the norm for a lot of teams. 5/6 D didn't get much ice time
Don't know how true that is, I'm not going to say I can remember that far back with any accuracy.

Mike
10-22-2015, 09:24 AM
Don't know how true that is, I'm not going to say I can remember that far back with any accuracy.

Well then how do you remember Torts doing it in Tampa Bay of all places? Every team shortens their bench in big games, and in close games. It's still like that now, and it was like that then. Check the Devils TOI log. I'd bet Stevens, Neidermeyer, Daneyko, Martin played 25+ minutes a game in the post season. And that's from a team who played the trap.

Pete
10-22-2015, 09:30 AM
Well then how do you remember Torts doing it in Tampa Bay of all places? Every team shortens their bench in big games, and in close games. It's still like that now, and it was like that then. Check the Devils TOI log. I'd bet Stevens, Neidermeyer, Daneyko, Martin played 25+ minutes a game in the post season. And that's from a team who played the trap.
Because it was mentioned ad nauseum during every playoff run where he rode the top 9 and 4.

I don't really see how it matters. We lost to teams who rolled 4 lines in NJ and Boston. It doesn't matter that Bickel was dressed. He wasn't going to play.

We're getting down a rabbit hole here. Let's get back to the point. He had a skilled roster in Vancouver and didn't adapt his tactics. Until he shows he is willing to coach both sides of the puck, I don't see how he can be a successful NHL coach.

Mike
10-22-2015, 09:39 AM
Because it was mentioned ad nauseum during every playoff run where he rode the top 9 and 4.

I don't really see how it matters. We lost to teams who rolled 4 lines in NJ and Boston. It doesn't matter that Bickel was dressed. He wasn't going to play.

We're getting down a rabbit hole here. Let's get back to the point. He had a skilled roster in Vancouver and didn't adapt his tactics. Until he shows he is willing to coach both sides of the puck, I don't see how he can be a successful NHL coach.

I don't know who was mentioning it, but I just checked the first series vs. the Isles, and every d played at least 15 min a game, obviously some more than others.... Boyle, Sydor, Kubina. Then I checked the Devils in the same year and saw Rafalski, Martin, and Neidermeyer with 25, White and Giroux (don't remember him at all) around 16, and the 6th with 11. I'm just trying to back up my point that all teams did it/do it, and it's not just him. Every coach plays the hand their dealt in the post season, and tight games in the reg season.

Pete
10-22-2015, 09:43 AM
I don't know who was mentioning it, but I just checked the first series vs. the Isles, and every d played at least 15 min a game, obviously some more than others.... Boyle, Sydor, Kubina. Then I checked the Devils in the same year and saw Rafalski, Martin, and Neidermeyer with 25, White and Giroux (don't remember him at all) around 16, and the 6th with 11. I'm just trying to back up my point that all teams did it/do it, and it's not just him. Every coach plays the hand their dealt in the post season, and tight games in the reg season.
That's fine, but it still doesn't change the point in my last paragraph. I don't blame him for how he coached here. I blame him for not evolving in Vancouver, and will believe he can change when I see it.

Mike
10-22-2015, 09:47 AM
That's fine, but it still doesn't change the point in my last paragraph. I don't blame him for how he coached here. I blame him for not evolving in Vancouver, and will believe he can change when I see it.

Yeah, he has things to prove for sure. Like Ray and I said before, that Vancouver situation was all sorts of wrong from go. I'll give him a mulligan. If the same shit goes on this year in Colombus, then he's probably phasing himself out of coaching in this league.

Pete
10-22-2015, 09:49 AM
Yeah, he has things to prove for sure. Like Ray and I said before, that Vancouver situation was all sorts of wrong from go. I'll give him a mulligan. If the same shit goes on this year in Colombus, then he's probably phasing himself out of coaching in this league.
Agreed.

And I'm a fan of Torts. I think he's a great motivator and I love his fucks not given attitude towards the media.

Phil in Absentia
10-22-2015, 10:02 AM
Yeah, he has things to prove for sure. Like Ray and I said before, that Vancouver situation was all sorts of wrong from go. I'll give him a mulligan. If the same shit goes on this year in Colombus, then he's probably phasing himself out of coaching in this league.

I'd go so far as to say if the same thing goes on in Columus, he's finished coaching in this league.

Future
10-22-2015, 10:20 AM
That wasn't just him in those days, that was the norm for a lot of teams. 5/6 D didn't get much ice time
Recent Cup Winners 6th D Playoffs TOI:

Chi - Timonen 8:40
LAK - Martinez (may he burn in hell) 16:12
Chi - Leddy 14:21
LAK - Martinez (may he burn in hell) 14:28
BOS - McQuaid 13:02
Chi - Hendry 8:09
Pitt - Eaton 18:07
DET - Lebda/Chelios 12:45ish
ANA - DiPenta 8:12 *They had 3 D playing 30 minutes a night, which is nuts
CAR - Wesley 16:10

So, I guess, some teams use a 6th D a lot, and others don't lol. I think, at least in the year MDZ/Bickel year, the issue was that Sauer got hurt earlier in the year and they never really replaced him. That makes the comparable to Chicago this year, since Roszival got hurt.

Mike
10-22-2015, 10:35 AM
Recent Cup Winners 6th D Playoffs TOI:

Chi - Timonen 8:40
LAK - Martinez (may he burn in hell) 16:12
Chi - Leddy 14:21
LAK - Martinez (may he burn in hell) 14:28
BOS - McQuaid 13:02
Chi - Hendry 8:09
Pitt - Eaton 18:07
DET - Lebda/Chelios 12:45ish
ANA - DiPenta 8:12 *They had 3 D playing 30 minutes a night, which is nuts
CAR - Wesley 16:10

So, I guess, some teams use a 6th D a lot, and others don't lol. I think, at least in the year MDZ/Bickel year, the issue was that Sauer got hurt earlier in the year and they never really replaced him. That makes the comparable to Chicago this year, since Roszival got hurt.

Exactly, like I mentioned before, coaches are played the hands they're dealt.

Morphinity
10-22-2015, 10:44 AM
In the case of last year, Chicago not having a 6th D was a huge issue. They were fortunate to have Keith who could play 100 minutes per night.

Mike
10-22-2015, 10:49 AM
In the case of last year, Chicago not having a 6th D was a huge issue. They were fortunate to have Keith who could play 100 minutes per night.

Like Pronger with Anaheim. Some teams have more luxeries than others. The Rangers had no 4th line, and 4d entering the playoffs. The 4 were animals, but not having a 4th line contributes to everyone being tired.

Future
10-22-2015, 10:54 AM
Like Pronger with Anaheim. Some teams have more luxeries than others. The Rangers had no 4th line, and 4d entering the playoffs. The 4 were animals, but not having a 4th line contributes to everyone being tired.
Semantics, and your point remains, but Pronger was actually second to Beauchemin in playoff minutes on that team, which I find fascinating.

Pete
10-22-2015, 10:54 AM
Well there's a difference between your 6th D not playing because you're #1 is a Norris 30 minutes guy, and your 6th D not playing because he'd also be the 6th D on an AHL team.

Mike
10-22-2015, 11:05 AM
Well there's a difference between your 6th D not playing because you're #1 is a Norris 30 minutes guy, and your 6th D not playing because he'd also be the 6th D on an AHL team.

Lol. And we didn't have your first example, but did have your 2nd example. = shit's creek with no paddle

Keirik
10-22-2015, 02:05 PM
You know what might be a bit interesting? Cally I believe doesn't have a NMC or NTC until 2018 and we all know Johnny's man crush. Tampa might be willing to part with him knowing they need some cap relief to retain Stamkos. Lets say they did a Bourque + pick for Cally, monetarily it might work and Tampa gets to walk away from Callys salary now and Bourque's at seasons end. I could be wrong though because I just did a quick look from general fanager.

Cash or Czech?
10-22-2015, 02:27 PM
You know what might be a bit interesting? Cally I believe doesn't have a NMC or NTC until 2018 and we all know Johnny's man crush. Tampa might be willing to part with him knowing they need some cap relief to retain Stamkos. Lets say they did a Bourque + pick for Cally, monetarily it might work and Tampa gets to walk away from Callys salary now and Bourque's at seasons end. I could be wrong though because I just did a quick look from general fanager.

It would be a tough deal for Columbus to manage cap-wise because of David Savard's extension that kicks in next year, and they have to re-sign Ryan Murray and Boone Jenner. Not much coming off of their cap except Bourque, so the deal would have to be a bit different.

I could definitely see a potential deal between the two, though.

Mike
10-22-2015, 02:38 PM
I don't think Duby and Cally have a great relationship either

Keirik
10-22-2015, 02:41 PM
two puck hogs rarely do lol

AmericanJesus
10-22-2015, 03:59 PM
You know what might be a bit interesting? Cally I believe doesn't have a NMC or NTC until 2018 and we all know Johnny's man crush. Tampa might be willing to part with him knowing they need some cap relief to retain Stamkos. Lets say they did a Bourque + pick for Cally, monetarily it might work and Tampa gets to walk away from Callys salary now and Bourque's at seasons end. I could be wrong though because I just did a quick look from general fanager.

He has a full NMC until 2018, then it reverts to a Limited NTC for the last two years of his contract, I believe. He's also produced at the rate they probably hoped for, so not sure they'd be ready to move on from him for a warm body just yet when they're this close to a championship. To make salary, I'd think they'd be looking at moving one of their higher priced defenders. Maybe Carle.

Phil in Absentia
10-23-2015, 02:25 PM
:tweet: @NYP_Brooksie: Told that after 1st period Tortorella told Johansen that he's not in shape. Center then got 4 shifts in 3rd. #Predictable #Torts

http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/So-It-Begins.gif

Lt. Dan
10-23-2015, 02:34 PM
I love Torts

Keirik
10-23-2015, 03:00 PM
Trade his fat ass to the Rangers then. Help out a brotha

Lt. Dan
10-23-2015, 03:45 PM
All kidding aside from what I've read it isn't the first time he's been told that. Management has had problems with the condition he's come in before..

Future
10-23-2015, 03:54 PM
All kidding aside from what I've read it isn't the first time he's been told that. Management has had problems with the condition he's come in before..
Yea. The beginning of last October he was criticized for it and he came out and said as much.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/603471

Cash or Czech?
10-24-2015, 02:40 PM
Report on Torts and Johansen possibly false?

@smitchcd: Tortorella on Johansen Illness: "We knew he wasn’t going to play. He just didn’t feel well enough. When we leave ,we get home at...
#CBJ

@smitchcd: More Torts"...I thinik 3:30, 4 (a.m.). We wanted to get him home, take care of him and get him evaluated as quickly as possible so...
#CBJ

@smitchcd: More Torts: "...we can get an idea of where we’re going to go with it."
#CBJ

@smitchcd: Tortorella on @NYP_Brooksie report that he told Ryan Johansen he was out of shape on Thursday:
"That's the first I've heard of that." #CBJ

Shawn Mitchell of the Columbus Dispatch.

Pete
10-24-2015, 03:05 PM
Wouldn't be shocked if Brooks makes shit up.

Cash or Czech?
10-24-2015, 03:07 PM
Wouldn't be shocked if Brooks makes shit up.

That's what I was thinking. Brooks and Torts don't exactly have the best past lol.

Lt. Dan
10-24-2015, 06:03 PM
If he did that's pretty pathetic. Even for Brooks.

Mike
10-24-2015, 09:41 PM
Brooks set Torts up on his first day back. Good job by JT to side step that one.

phillyb™
10-28-2015, 03:27 PM
2-1-0 with torts behind the bench.

Keirik
10-29-2015, 12:33 PM
This might be a great fit for Torts. He strikes me as the type who likes to have it be known that he knows better than person X does and in a smaller city with less media and hockey being a lesser known sport, he might thrive there uncontested.

Mike
10-29-2015, 12:43 PM
This might be a great fit for Torts. He strikes me as the type who likes to have it be known that he knows better than person X does and in a smaller city with less media and hockey being a lesser known sport, he might thrive there uncontested.
I'm not so sure that's the case there. The Jackets are pretty popular, and hockey in general in Ohio is very popular.

Phil in Absentia
10-29-2015, 12:56 PM
Yeah, if that was what he wanted, San José was the market to go after.

Columbus is an underrated market that actually do turn out big. They've just had little reason to before the last three years because the club was so bad.

Mike
10-29-2015, 01:01 PM
Yeah, if that was what he wanted, San José was the market to go after.

Columbus is an underrated market that actually do turn out big. They've just had little reason to before the last three years because the club was so bad.

That too, but there's a shit ton of hockey in Ohio. We're actually going to a showcase in Cleveland in February.

Keirik
10-29-2015, 01:21 PM
There is, and it ts a much better market than say Atlanta (you listening Bettman?) but its still not THE sport there or covered like Football is there and its still below baseball.

Phil in Absentia
10-29-2015, 01:24 PM
There is, and it ts a much better market than say Atlanta (you listening Bettman?) but its still not THE sport there or covered like Football is there and its still below baseball.

Is there a market in the U.S. where this isn't the case? I can't imagine even Boston eclipses it. Not with the Red Sox and Patriots there.

Minnesota might be the only one, and that's only becuase I'm utterly ignorant to what other teams/sports are even there. Are the Timberwolves still around?

phillyb™
10-29-2015, 01:31 PM
Is there a market in the U.S. where this isn't the case? I can't imagine even Boston eclipses it. Not with the Red Sox and Patriots there.

Minnesota might be the only one, and that's only becuase I'm utterly ignorant to what other teams/sports are even there. Are the Timberwolves still around?

does basketball still exist?
i couldn't name more than 10 teams. lol

Puck Head
10-29-2015, 01:35 PM
Is there a market in the U.S. where this isn't the case? I can't imagine even Boston eclipses it. Not with the Red Sox and Patriots there. Minnesota might be the only one, and that's only becuase I'm utterly ignorant to what other teams/sports are even there. Are the Timberwolves still around?


Minnesota would be the only one that I can think of. Can't simply break it down to NHL vs NBA vs NFL etc.

It's a culture thing, similar to what they have in Canada to a lesser extent. Youth sports, high school, adult leagues.

Michigan would also be close.

As far as areas without professional teams, hockey reigns supreme in N Dakota and Alaska also

Phil in Absentia
10-29-2015, 01:54 PM
Minnesota would be the only one that I can think of. Can't simply break it down to NHL vs NBA vs NFL etc.

It's a culture thing, similar to what they have in Canada to a lesser extent. Youth sports, high school, adult leagues.

Michigan would also be close.

As far as areas without professional teams, hockey reigns supreme in N Dakota and Alaska also

Right, and even in culturally rich hockey markets like Ohio and western Pennsylvania, you're still paling in comparison to the saturation of that market to other sports. Namely football. Especially at the NCAA level.

Keirik
10-29-2015, 02:55 PM
Is there a market in the U.S. where this isn't the case? I can't imagine even Boston eclipses it. Not with the Red Sox and Patriots there.

Minnesota might be the only one, and that's only becuase I'm utterly ignorant to what other teams/sports are even there. Are the Timberwolves still around?

Well yes and no, but there are certain cities such as Minn, Boston, Chi, Detroit, (every Canadian market which im including since he coached in Vancouver and thats part of my point), Buffalo, Philly, NYR, where at least there is either a large hockey following, large media market for extra scrutiny, or a culture where BS isn't tolerated and called out regularly.

I don't think there is that much to argue about it being easier to fly under the NHL radar in Columbus than say in most of the cities listed above?
)

Phil in Absentia
10-30-2015, 01:37 PM
Larry Brooks wasn’t making it up. John Tortorella did tell Ryan Johansen that he wasn’t in shape.

Johansen confirmed today what the New York Post reporter tweeted after Johansen was benched for the final 6:10 of Tortorella’s first game behind the Blue Jackets’ bench on Oct. 22.

“That was something that was said in the room,” the 23-year-old told the Columbus Dispatch. “That’s something that shouldn’t leave the room. You always hear (about) those codes from teams and players around the league: what’s said in the room is said in there, and that’s between us. Whatever me and coach talk about is between me and him.”

Johansen added that he had “no idea” how the leak occurred. He’ll be back in the lineup tonight in Washington, after missing two games with an undisclosed illness.

“We figured it all out; that’s why I’m back 100 percent today,” Johansen said.



http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2015/10/30/johansen-admits-that-torts-told-him-he-was-out-of-shape/

AmericanJesus
10-30-2015, 01:59 PM
Dubinsky is the mole!

phillyb™
11-06-2015, 12:52 PM
http://i.imgur.com/8CiEAe8.png

Phil in Absentia
11-06-2015, 01:51 PM
Really small sample size, but the goals against is huge.

Future
11-06-2015, 02:16 PM
Have to assume that a lot of that improvement just comes from om bobrovsky not being horrible.

Dunny
11-06-2015, 03:14 PM
I'm sure they could never have pulled a 3-3 stretch off under Richard's.

phillyb™
11-06-2015, 03:57 PM
I'm sure they could never have pulled a 3-3 stretch off under Richard's.

richard's what?

Dunny
11-06-2015, 04:09 PM
richard's what?

nutsack

ThirtyONE
11-09-2015, 12:43 PM
I'm pulling for Torts to turn that team around. I think he's a good coach and was brought into the wrong situation in Vancouver.

Future
11-09-2015, 12:47 PM
I'm pulling for Torts to turn that team around. I think he's a good coach and was brought into the wrong situation in Vancouver.
I think so too. That team is a sinking ship as long as they're holding on to the Sedins, it doesn't really matter who the coach is.