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Travis Bickle
11-18-2014, 11:29 PM
GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- For 18 games, Alain Vigneault had kept his frustration mostly hidden, like a vest under a jacket. A button popped after the Rangers' inexplicable showing in a 5-1 loss to Tampa Bay Monday night, and he let slip a few expletives as he left the interview room.

On Tuesday, the jacket still hadn't been buttoned up, and the second-year Rangers coach sharply criticized his players.

"We better respond," a stern Vigneault said. "We're going to have to show more resiliency, there's no doubt. We're going to have to show a lot more commitment to playing the right way every shift. I believe we have the group to do it, but we're going to have to see some action on the ice here."



Cam Talbot, not Lundqvist (7-5-3, 2.68 GAA, .910 save percentage), will start Wednesday night at the Garden against the Flyers (7-7-2), which Vigneault said had not been planned until he and goaltending coach Benoit Allaire looked at the schedule.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/alain-vigneault-rips-struggling-rangers-1.9631594

Phil in Absentia
11-18-2014, 11:56 PM
He's not wrong about any of this, but there's an all important or else missing here.

We better respond, or else __________

Fill in the blank however you desire. Trades will happen. Guys will lose their jobs. Shake-ups will occur. Heads will roll.

Travis Bickle
11-19-2014, 12:19 AM
He's not wrong about any of this, but there's an all important or else missing here.

We better respond, or else __________

Fill in the blank however you desire. Trades will happen. Guys will lose their jobs. Shake-ups will occur. Heads will roll.

Perhaps that will be specified down the road. Hopefully it won't be necessary.

phillyb™
11-19-2014, 12:31 AM
glad av is being resilient.

momentum
11-19-2014, 05:46 AM
This is the right time to get pissed off, so far this season it's been a mixed bag and inconsistency, some good and some bad but not the kind of blatant non effort piece of shit hockey they displayed against the Lightning.
They're gonna have to sort out whatever is going on in their head and find consistency. It's still early so they have time to work on this but the kind of effort like the one last game is just unacceptable at any time of the season.

fletch
11-19-2014, 08:08 AM
Inconsistent. I don't understand why this team can play so well one game and so poorly the next. Not a new phenomenon, but still frustrating.

Valriera
11-19-2014, 08:24 AM
We play best when teams engage us physically. It's why the Pens game are always outstanding, because those guys hack, slash, and grab their way to wins. It's why we can never beat the Habs, because they do very little hacking and a lot more hockey. We aren't consistently engaged because we haven't been able to engage ourselves this year. It was the case last year too, actually, but in the playoffs the thing with Marty did that for the rest of the run. Actually, AV's teams are always like this. The Canucks drew the same criticism during his time there. They weren't physically engaged enough and you could beat them by kind of leaving them alone. It works well if you have the best team in the league but we clearly don't, and we need to make some adjustments in mindset to self engage in these games.

So Nashty
11-19-2014, 09:04 AM
I see no way around a trade or 3. There are obvious holes in this lineup that are not being filled internally. So whether or not they start playing better that will still happen.

AmericanJesus
11-19-2014, 09:19 AM
To me, it seems like when we had the most injuries, the guys were playing their best. To a man, they were trying to pick up slack. Then Stepan and Boyle come back and they let the foot off the gas.

phillyb™
11-19-2014, 09:21 AM
is boyle a good skater?
fast?
i don't see how he really fits this team.

Pete
11-19-2014, 09:27 AM
He's not wrong about any of this, but there's an all important or else missing here.

We better respond, or else __________

Fill in the blank however you desire. Trades will happen. Guys will lose their jobs. Shake-ups will occur. Heads will roll.

He's not the tyoe to make threats.

Pete
11-19-2014, 09:29 AM
To me, it seems like when we had the most injuries, the guys were playing their best. To a man, they were trying to pick up slack. Then Stepan and Boyle come back and they let the foot off the gas.

Teams been up and down all year.

Morphinity
11-19-2014, 09:31 AM
I don't think he has to make specific threats. We've got 3 rookies on this team that can be sent down or scratched without losing much in terms of replacements. He's shown that he's willing to waive veterans (a la Pyatt, Powe, and Asham) who are detriments to the team.

The team should be aware of that. The implied threat is we better respond or you lose your spot on the team.

Future
11-19-2014, 09:33 AM
To me, it seems like when we had the most injuries, the guys were playing their best. To a man, they were trying to pick up slack. Then Stepan and Boyle come back and they let the foot off the gas.
They gave up, what, 17 goals in three games against Columbus, Toronto, and NYI without Stepan and Boyle.

I don't think injuries have been the problem, intensity has been.

And I don't think that's because of the guys they lost this offseason, because they put up a bunch of stinkers last year too.

Respecttheblue
11-19-2014, 10:07 AM
In the beginning of the interview he really addressed the issue of complacency.
He sounded convincing, and was emphatic about it — which surprised me, as that game really shocked me to the core it was so pride-less, rancid and barf-worthy.

Here's a down and dirty transcription:

"I know this team knows the right way to play
I know they know the compete level they need to bring on a nightly basis
I know they have strong leadership
I know they have accountability
There is no doubt in my mind that one good game [followed by] one bad game where we're not playing the right way
and the next game we're back on the right track — thats why were .500 hockey right now…
And were dealing with it…to get on the right track play the right way consistently
this group in my mind, will prove that it can [do that].
http://www.blueshirtsunited.com/video/vigneault-rangers-better-respond-vs-flyers


Me I'm not quite as convinced, It made me wonder what the hell is wrong ... why lay a collective egg against a team with 3 former teammates who are looking to show New York it made a mistake by paying the guys here instead of them? That's a game that surely one can get up for? — to show that the ones who remain or who were brought in are the guys who are still meant to be here, but no, … they laid down and let that become a question again.

But that's not even my concern. My concern is do they actually have what it takes to overcome teams like Montreal, Islanders and Tampa this year? Is the self-belief there, and it the right mix of players there?

If AV is right, then maybe things aren't as bad as they looked. I'll give him a lot of credit for positivity and not losing it there. Me, I'm still sea-sick after that one.

AmericanJesus
11-19-2014, 10:09 AM
Teams been up and down all year.

The effort has been worse since the team got more healthy though. Not talking mistakes or blown coverage.

Phil in Absentia
11-19-2014, 10:14 AM
He's not the tyoe to make threats.

Maybe not that directly, no, but he's made them in the past in other variations.



“J.T. has to figure it out and hopefully he will,” Vigneault said, per the NY Post. “When he does, we’re going to have a good player. If he doesn’t, he will be a good minor league player.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/17/seeya-kids-rangers-send-miller-fast-to-minors/

Slobberknocker
11-19-2014, 11:14 AM
No doubt the Tampa game amongst a few others this year have left bad tastes in the mouth, but i caution that it is still early and this team is quite different from the one that made the cup run.

I think we have what it takes to compete on a nightly basis and i think that we will. I'm in the Maloney camp, i think this team needs a good road trip together. I think we are more the team that played so well against Pittsburgh as opposed to the one that showed up against Tampa.

Someone suggested a trade or three above. Thats fine but just what are we trading and who are we getting?

I think outside of a tweak, this is the team we will ice for the year, like it or not.

Morphinity
11-19-2014, 11:47 AM
Yeah, it's early, but they're actually doing worse than last year at this time... And we all know how monumental of a task it was to improve.

AmericanJesus
11-19-2014, 12:00 PM
Through 18 games last year, the Rangers were 9-9-0, 18 points, -8 goal differential. Through 18 games this year, the Rangers are 7-7-4, 18 points, -8 goal differential

The Rangers are as close to exactly the same spot they were in last year as you can get. Only difference is last year it was Hagelin, Callahan and then Nash hurt, this year it was Stepan, Boyle and now McDonagh hurt.

Morphinity
11-19-2014, 12:50 PM
Through 18 games last year, the Rangers were 9-9-0, 18 points, -8 goal differential. Through 18 games this year, the Rangers are 7-7-4, 18 points, -8 goal differential

The Rangers are as close to exactly the same spot they were in last year as you can get. Only difference is last year it was Hagelin, Callahan and then Nash hurt, this year it was Stepan, Boyle and now McDonagh hurt.

More loser points, more goals allowed is worse to me. Points wise, sure, they're the same.

AmericanJesus
11-19-2014, 01:03 PM
More loser points, more goals allowed is worse to me. Points wise, sure, they're the same.

You could flip that and say less regulation losses and more goals scored. I think that giving up more goals when you have your D in rough shape is expected, just as scoring less goals when your forwards are in rough shape would be expected.

To me, what's occured doesn't matter as much as what the team can manage over the next couple of months. If memory serves, last season it took them till around Christmas to finally get 2 games above .500. Then they never looked back.

Pete
11-19-2014, 02:15 PM
You could flip that and say less regulation losses and more goals scored. I think that giving up more goals when you have your D in rough shape is expected, just as scoring less goals when your forwards are in rough shape would be expected.

To me, what's occured doesn't matter as much as what the team can manage over the next couple of months. If memory serves, last season it took them till around Christmas to finally get 2 games above .500. Then they never looked back.

I can draw a lot of corollaries between this year and last year...There are some new faces. The defense has been injured, and that's been by far the worst part of their game.

However...The manner in which they lose; with flat out embarrassing efforts, lackadaisical play, playing loose and stupid — That's a huge issue and I don't see how it can be seen as anything else. Zuccarello looks terrible, DBoyle looks terrible, Staal looks terrible, the bottom 6 is a joke save Hagelin.

Even if you wanted to compare this year to last year, last year is a gift you don't get twice. Comparing this year to last year, by the odds, say we're missing the playoffs because very rarely does a team who's out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving make it into the playoffs. We used our chance last year.

AmericanJesus
11-19-2014, 02:19 PM
I can draw a lot of corollaries between this year and last year...There are some new faces. The defense has been injured, and that's been by far the worst part of their game.

However...The manner in which they lose; with flat out embarrassing efforts, lackadaisical play, playing loose and stupid — That's a huge issue and I don't see how it can be seen as anything else. Zuccarello looks terrible, DBoyle looks terrible, Staal looks terrible, the bottom 6 is a joke save Hagelin.

Even if you wanted to compare this year to last year, last year is a gift you don't get twice. Comparing this year to last year, by the odds, say we're missing the playoffs because very rarely does a team who's out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving make it into the playoffs. We used our chance last year.

Well, we're only 1 point out of the 6th spot. I'm not trying to paint this as a good thing. I was just comparing where we are now to where we were last year. They seem similar to me. I don't expect that to mean similar results at all. So many things went perfectly well for the team to get where they did, including a pretty big shake up (Captain for Captain). I think we'll need to see some big changes sooner rather than later.

Ranger Lothbrok
11-19-2014, 03:26 PM
In some ways, I think Sather did a terrific job with a rather limited budget this past summer. Some of our key players left for "greener" (as in cash greener) pastures, and with almost no cap flexibility we tried to fill their roles. That said, it's becoming clear that depth isn't just depth. People may say that a player like Brian Boyle is a dime a dozen, and Rick Nash's are almost impossible to find, but I'd disagree with that assessment. I think it's coming to light that our role players played a much larger part in our recent trips to the ECF's than people think.

Moore was a terrific signing to keep our 4th line relevant. Stempniak has been more than serviceable for what he's supposed to do. The questionable decision-making aspect lies in some of the other decisions. I think Boyle is clearly worth the $500k more it would've cost to have him instead of Tanner Glass. And going off of the performances to start the season, I'd have sooner given Stralman $5 mil for 5 years than give Boyle $4.5 for 2. Free up a million somewhere in salary, and our defense and penalty killing are looking a lot better right now.

All of this being said, I think this is the low point of the season for us. We've seen stretches of offensive brilliance, and I don't feel I'm embellishing in the slightest using that term. I've seen some of the most exciting hockey I've ever seen the Rangers play. And there's no question that our defense has been hampered, heavily, by injuries. It's the middle of November, and the regular roster as we expected it to be over the summer STILL hasn't played a single game as a unit. There's a lot of gelling to be done here.

I see AV's frustration. This team DOES have the components to be successful. We have one of the best defenses in the league when they're playing the right way, and we now have a talented and creative offense. The goaltending normally isn't a question mark in the slightest, but it's been subpar so far. Everything to this point has just been...sloppy. I think it's premature to be lamenting the potential lottery pick we could've had this summer. While I agree that it's stupid to pretend games don't matter in October and November, I do think we've had one of the highest roster turnovers in the league to start the season.

To me, the team is like a snake-bitten goal scorer. It's immensely frustrating, and with every game that goes by the frustration level rises and the problem grows. But eventually, things settle down and become simple again, and the cold streak is broken. Then the confidence comes back, and then you have the dominant goal scorer once more. I think we're looking at a totally different team in January, personally. Call me an optimist.

Puck Head
11-19-2014, 03:30 PM
Through 18 games last year, the Rangers were 9-9-0, 18 points, -8 goal differential. Through 18 games this year, the Rangers are 7-7-4, 18 points, -8 goal differential

The Rangers are as close to exactly the same spot they were in last year as you can get. Only difference is last year it was Hagelin, Callahan and then Nash hurt, this year it was Stepan, Boyle and now McDonagh hurt.

One thing to note...
Last season the Rangers started 3-7.
After then they went 8-2 in the next 10 games. So I'd say after the 10th game, the Ranger got it together and were one of the best teams in the NHL since their 3-7 start.

This year however, we just saw this team go 1-5 in games 12 thru 18.
That's concerning to me that we haven't put it together yet.

Parsley
11-19-2014, 03:34 PM
However...The manner in which they lose; with flat out embarrassing efforts, lackadaisical play, playing loose and stupid — That's a huge issue and I don't see how it can be seen as anything else. Zuccarello looks terrible, DBoyle looks terrible, Staal looks terrible, the bottom 6 is a joke save Hagelin.

Even if you wanted to compare this year to last year, last year is a gift you don't get twice. Comparing this year to last year, by the odds, say we're missing the playoffs because very rarely does a team who's out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving make it into the playoffs. We used our chance last year.



So negative Pete......Geez!























I agree. :)

Slobberknocker
11-19-2014, 03:53 PM
i really think its too early to worry here.

if they tighten up in front of hank and put in the work ethic they will be fine.

talk to me on jan 1.

mbob
11-19-2014, 06:34 PM
I've had a large break in following the team or sports in general as I was traveling for work for many years and just couldn't get into a rhythm. So my team knowledge isn't quite there but my hockey senses tell me this team needs a personnel shake up. It's just not made up well with too many speedsters and not enough grit. I guess the cap departures killed a good mix.

Ranger Lothbrok
11-19-2014, 08:50 PM
I've had a large break in following the team or sports in general as I was traveling for work for many years and just couldn't get into a rhythm. So my team knowledge isn't quite there but my hockey senses tell me this team needs a personnel shake up. It's just not made up well with too many speedsters and not enough grit. I guess the cap departures killed a good mix.

My, have times ever changed. Grass is always greener, they say.

Phil in Absentia
11-19-2014, 08:53 PM
I've had a large break in following the team or sports in general as I was traveling for work for many years and just couldn't get into a rhythm. So my team knowledge isn't quite there but my hockey senses tell me this team needs a personnel shake up. It's just not made up well with too many speedsters and not enough grit. I guess the cap departures killed a good mix.


My, have times ever changed. Grass is always greener, they say.

He's not wrong, though.

Fact is, the Rangers could absolutely use a spark plug-type player right now. Especially on that make-shift third line. They basically need Brandon Dubinsky back.

mbob
11-20-2014, 08:17 AM
Yep the top two lines are balanced and interchange nicely when coach shakes up things. They carry the team and as good as they are up top the bottom 6 are bad. Hayes is improving and showing signs but I want neither line 3 or 4 out in important defensive faceoffs. I like Duclairs future but honestly he does not fit on this team now and later it will not be on the third line. Would anyone even claim Glass if he was waived? D. Moore, Stemp, and Hags are decent but the line mix just isn't there.