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View Full Version : Recalled/Assigned: Rangers Recall [D] Dylan McIlrath, [D] Conor Allen



Phil in Absentia
11-02-2014, 01:35 PM
:tweet: @FriedgeHNIC: Alain Vigneault also told NYR media that callups on D will come after 5pm (ET) for cap reasons and the fact AHL Hartford plays at 3.

:tweet: @HartnettHockey: #NYR head coach Alain Vigneault: "We're definitely going to recall some guys later on today. Thats going to be after 5 pm for cap purposes."

:tweet: @AGrossRecord: Seems like Conor Allen and Dylan McIlrath are candidates to be the call-ups but that's not a definite yet.

--

Update 6:09PM:

:tweet: @AGrossRecord: It's official: Rangers have recalled Conor Allen and Dylan McIlrath from Hartford (AHL).

Pete
11-02-2014, 01:37 PM
Now or never, Mac.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 01:39 PM
Hunwick-Girardi
Staal-Kostka
Allen-McIlrath

Kind of a 180 from the D we've been spoiled with over the years.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Yea no choice really were so thin

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Now or never, Mac.

Time to step up for sre

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 01:44 PM
Now or never, Mac.

I just disagree because he's a 22 year old defenseman. I hope he shows positive signs and if he plays like he did in preseason, I'll be happy.

Pete
11-02-2014, 01:46 PM
I just disagree because he's a 22 year old defenseman. I hope he shows positive signs and if he plays like he did in preseason, I'll be happy.

He's being handed an opportunity. If he flops, combined with his extremely slow progress, you have to wonder if he'll ever be an NHL regular.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 01:51 PM
He's being handed an opportunity. If he flops, combined with his extremely slow progress, you have to wonder if he'll ever be an NHL regular.

What do you want out of McIlrath? I think where you and I disagree on him is where he slots into the lineup during his career. I believe that you want him to be a top-4 defenseman. While I would like that, I'd be very happy with a bottom pairing, physical guy who can play 16 minutes. While it's not what you want out of a 10th overall pick, I think that with lower expectations comes a more realistic outcome. I'm not basing it off of where he was drafted anymore but the prospect that we currently have. That's why I think you and I disagree on him every time.

Pete
11-02-2014, 01:59 PM
What do you want out of McIlrath? I think where you and I disagree on him is where he slots into the lineup during his career. I believe that you want him to be a top-4 defenseman. While I would like that, I'd be very happy with a bottom pairing, physical guy who can play 16 minutes. While it's not what you want out of a 10th overall pick, I think that with lower expectations comes a more realistic outcome. I'm not basing it off of where he was drafted anymore but the prospect that we currently have. That's why I think you and I disagree on him every time.

Well you're wrong. I don't even know what it means for me to "want" him to be anything. What I'd like to see is progress. And it's been slow. Picking a player like like him at 10 was a mistake. It can't even be debated, IMO. That conversation is done with. At this point I'm hoping he can be an every day player, even a 6. It just doesn't look that way right now.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 02:07 PM
Well you're wrong. I don't even know what it means for me to "want" him to be anything. What I'd like to see is progress. And it's been slow. Picking a player like like him at 10 was a mistake. It can't even be debated, IMO. That conversation is done with. At this point I'm hoping he can be an every day player, even a 6. It just doesn't look that way right now.

I disagree with that based on what I saw in preseason. I think the injuries really set him back at least a year, but I've always been a positive thinker (Lundqvist last year, Nash, etc etc). I like to think that the best will happen even when it's a definite possibility that it won't. That's why I believe a little extra patience can only help, but I understand the people that are sick of waiting.

Lt. Dan
11-02-2014, 02:09 PM
Well you're wrong. I don't even know what it means for me to "want" him to be anything. What I'd like to see is progress. And it's been slow. Picking a player like like him at 10 was a mistake. It can't even be debated, IMO. That conversation is done with. At this point I'm hoping he can be an every day player, even a 6. It just doesn't look that way right now.

I've actually stopped thinking about this (even though I agree) and have begun to focus more on our scouts in general. I'm beginning to wonder if they should just all get canned at this point. What was our farm team rated at? Last? Just looking at all the players that were passed up for McIlrath makes want to :banghead:

Pete
11-02-2014, 02:09 PM
I disagree with that based on what I saw in preseason. I think the injuries really set him back at least a year, but I've always been a positive thinker (Lundqvist last year, Nash, etc etc). I like to think that the best will happen even when it's a definite possibility that it won't. That's why I believe a little extra patience can only help, but I understand the people that are sick of waiting.

I don't mind waiting. I never want to rush anyone, Duclair, Hayes, etc. But his development has been incremental.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 02:10 PM
If it makes you feel any better, no defenseman taken after McIlrath in the 1st round that year has done jack shit aside from Fowler but when we had Del Zotto, it didn't make sense to take him (an argument for another time).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2010e.html

Gormley, Forbert, Tinordi, Pysyk.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 02:11 PM
I've actually stopped thinking about this (even though I agree) and have begun to focus more on our scouts in general. I'm beginning to wonder if they should just all get canned at this point. What was our farm team rated at? Last? Just looking at all the players that were passed up for McIlrath makes want to :banghead:

Why is it the scouts' fault when the GM keeps trading away our top picks? We haven't had a 1st round pick since 2012 and we won't have one this coming draft either.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 02:13 PM
I don't mind waiting. I never want to rush anyone, Duclair, Hayes, etc. But his development has been incremental.

Valid point. I still think the knee injury was killer for his development and set him back a year in regards to hitting his potential. I think it'll be good to see how he's eased in against a struggling offense and then playing against some good teams with talent.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 02:14 PM
Tarasenko is the only one that really drives nuts that we passed up for Mcilrath. fowler didn't make sense for us at the time. But that's all over with still think Mcilrath can definitely be a valuable bottom four defenseman with a mean streak

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 02:17 PM
That's all I want him to be :cheers:

Ranger Lothbrok
11-02-2014, 02:20 PM
Well you're wrong. I don't even know what it means for me to "want" him to be anything. What I'd like to see is progress. And it's been slow. Picking a player like like him at 10 was a mistake. It can't even be debated, IMO. That conversation is done with. At this point I'm hoping he can be an every day player, even a 6. It just doesn't look that way right now.

This is how I feel as well. Sure, the injuries may have hampered his development, but I've said before that you need to take a player's propensity for getting hurt in to account for any objective evaluation of their prospects as an NHLer. I know the usual statements: big guys taking longer to develop, we knew he was a project when we took him, he's only 22, he's years away from his prime, etc.. None of that changes the fact that, as of this past June, it's been 4 years since he put on the blue sweater. After that period of time, even if you don't know exactly what he projects to be, you should have a pretty damn good idea of whether or not he's got the skills to play in the NHL at all, even if it's in an extremely limited, bottom-pairing role.

Some of us look at his play in the preseason and say, "of course he'll be a regular NHLer!!" Others among us look at it and say, "meh...jury's still out on this one." The fact that there's even a discussion about this, however, says a lot between the lines IMO. After four years and over 100 games played for our AHL affiliate, there should be a somewhat definitive projection of where he'll be next year or in 5 years. The fact that nobody can tell, however, doesn't bode well to me at least. As far as which side of the fence I fall on, I'm personally in the group of people who think that he doesn't have what it takes, he won't have what it takes, and that the people who still think he does have what it takes are telling themselves that because they can't cope with the waste of a high draft pick.

Unrelated question: I can't find TOI stats anywhere for the AHL. Does anyone happen to know whether McIlrath and Allen played together on the top pairing, and if so what kind of minutes they logged each game? I'm curious as to whether the adjustment will be limited to the talent level, and not chemistry or style of play if they've played together for a while.

torontonyr
11-02-2014, 02:21 PM
Anyone see McIlrath's hit earlier this season? Reminds me of something you'd see in the 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NL9848cRIk

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 02:24 PM
Anyone see McIlrath's hit earlier this season? Reminds me of something you'd see in the 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NL9848cRIk

I am dying to see this in a blue sweater

Lt. Dan
11-02-2014, 02:28 PM
Why is it the scouts' fault when the GM keeps trading away our top picks? We haven't had a 1st round pick since 2012 and we won't have one this coming draft either.

You're fully aware that there have been many players picked later in the draft that have become fantastic nhlers. Can you honestly say the rangers have drafted well the last few years?

Phil in Absentia
11-02-2014, 02:29 PM
Yeah, that's a beautiful hit.

That's the kind of aggressive play that would have him competing for a full-time roster spot, IMO.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 02:29 PM
You're fully aware that there have been many players picked later in the draft that have become fantastic nhlers. Can you honestly say the rangers have drafted well the last few years?

I think they've drafted really well.

Skjei
Duclair
Buchnevich

!br-avery!
11-02-2014, 02:46 PM
Great hit
I think he need to learn to protect himself better in fights,seems some opponents get some good punches in on him

Phil in Absentia
11-02-2014, 03:15 PM
:tweet: @NYP_Brooksie: Neither Allen nor McIlrath in Wolf Pack lineup this afternoon. #OnwaytoNY

Dunny
11-02-2014, 03:17 PM
Hey at least it's gonna be interesting.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 03:56 PM
You're fully aware that there have been many players picked later in the draft that have become fantastic nhlers. Can you honestly say the rangers have drafted well the last few years?

Legit prospects from...
2010: McIlrath (1st), Fast (6th)
2011: Miller (1st)
2012: Skjei (1st)
2013: Duclair (3rd), Buchnevich (3rd), Tambellini (3rd), Graves (4th), Skapski (6th)

We've done okay, yeah. Everyone can do better but of that list, four have played in the NHL and one more has been deemed almost NHL ready (Skjei). Hindsight is also 20-20 and there are late bloomers. The draft is a crapshoot. More generic the draft is half-science half-luck yada yada.

momentum
11-02-2014, 04:36 PM
What do you want out of McIlrath? I think where you and I disagree on him is where he slots into the lineup during his career. I believe that you want him to be a top-4 defenseman. While I would like that, I'd be very happy with a bottom pairing, physical guy who can play 16 minutes. While it's not what you want out of a 10th overall pick, I think that with lower expectations comes a more realistic outcome. I'm not basing it off of where he was drafted anymore but the prospect that we currently have. That's why I think you and I disagree on him every time.To judge if a player meets his expectations or not you HAVE to take drafting position into account, unless you want to just ignore that important fact and tell yourself you're actually happy if your top 10 pics barely just makes the 5 years down the line. But that is horrible assett managment in that case, a top 10 draft pick is a valuable assett after all.
Yes you can stop basing it on where he was drafted and just look at him for what he is now but then you have to take into account that you have already incorporated the failure in that top 10 prospect and are now automatically rating him as a "lesser" prospect. McIlrath is a failure no matter how you slice it or from what angle you look at it and it IS BASED on his draft position ofc, because we wasted a valuable assett by drafting him there. If he was drafted in the 6th round we wouldn't even be talking about him, but just happily surprised if he ever even makes the team. Think of it as a trade, he is a top 10 pick that turned into a 6th round late pick, would you make that trade? No ofc not.
The fact that most of us would be happy if he simply turned into a servicable 6th dman shows you right there what a flop he was at that position in the draft. There is no denying it. We can ACCEPT it but not deny it, but that doesn't make it any less of a failure.

I hope McIlrath turn into Pronger but I won't hold my breath.

I'ts now or never for Dylan, if he fails now i feel we should trade him for anything we can get or simply stop even discussing him as anything but career AHL'er.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkMVscR5YOo&feature=player_detailpage

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 04:39 PM
To judge if a player meets his expectations or not you HAVE to take drafting position into account, unless you want to just ignore that important fact and tell yourself you're actually happy if your top 10 pics barely just makes the 5 years down the line. But that is horrible assett managment in that case, a top 10 draft pick is a valuable assett after all.
Yes you can stop basing it on where he was drafted and just look at him for what he is now but then you have to take into account that you have already incorporated the failure in that top 10 prospect and are now automatically rating him as a "lesser" prospect. McIlrath is a failure no matter how you slice it or from what angle you look at it. The fact that most of us would be happy if he simply turned into a servicable 6th dman shows you right there what a flop he was at that position in the draft. There is no denying it. We can ACCEPT it but not deny it, but that doesn't make it any less of a failure.

I hope McIlrath turn into Pronger but I won't hold my breath.

I'ts now or never for Dylan, if he fails now i feel we should trade him for anything we can get or simply stop even discussing him as anything but career AHL'er.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkMVscR5YOo&feature=player_detailpage

Fair points but I think you're jumping the gun calling a 22 year old prospect a career ahler

momentum
11-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Fair points but I think you're jumping the gun calling a 22 year old prospect a career ahler

I didn't call him that, i said that is what I consider him if the doesn't make the team soon or at least shows us something to get our hopes up about, he has shown NOTHING, stagnation in progress and no major improvement or anything that indicates that he's close to getting ready IMO.
But maybe you're right, maybe i AM jumping the gun. So be it.
Like i said though, even if he turns into a 6th defensman he's a bust, we have just all accepted that he is a bust and are now hoping for ANYTHING, we went to the Palm for steak but got served canned ravioli and now we're telling ourselves thats ok.
I'm not saying its a BIG deal, there have been many other busts in our team history and he'll be just one of them, but to call him anything but a bust is just sticking your head in the sand imo.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 04:52 PM
I didn't call him that, i said that is what I consider him if the doesn't make the team soon or at least shows us something to get our hopes up about, he has shown NOTHING, stagnation in progress and no major improvement or anything that indicates that he's close to getting ready IMO.
But maybe you're right, maybe i AM jumping the gun. So be it.
Like i said though, even if he turns into a 6th defensman he's a bust, we have just all accepted that he is a bust and are now hoping for ANYTHING, we went to the Palm for steak but got served canned ravioli and now we're telling ourselves thats ok.
I'm not saying its a BIG deal, there have been many other busts in our team history and he'll be just one of them, but to call him anything but a bust is just sticking your head in the sand imo.

Idk not every top ten puck turns into a star player, I'm sure if we did the stats how often the 10 pick really blossoms the percentage wouldn't be that high. Yeah we missed on two very good players but so does every team every year. A reach pick everyone knew it but no one expected Shea weber

Bretzky
11-02-2014, 05:00 PM
I wonder if anyone's been clever enough to get a Tarasenko Rangers jersey. That'd be funny.

Pete
11-02-2014, 05:57 PM
Idk not every top ten puck turns into a star player, I'm sure if we did the stats how often the 10 pick really blossoms the percentage wouldn't be that high. Yeah we missed on two very good players but so does every team every year. A reach pick everyone knew it but no one expected Shea weber

That's why you don't take projects in the First round.

Drew a Penalty
11-02-2014, 06:04 PM
:tweet:@NYRangers OFFICIAL: #NYR have recalled defensemen Conor Allen and Dylan McIlrath from @WolfPackAHL; full story: http://nyrange.rs/1vBPbRn

Ranger Lothbrok
11-02-2014, 06:20 PM
My biggest hangup was the attempt to outsmart everyone with the pick. A guy who many rankings had as a top 3 pick miraculously falls to 10th. In that situation, you don't reach for the project. You thank your lucky stars, thank Jesus, thank whoever, make the pick and move on. Sure, we already had DZ. That doesn't mean that we were set with offensive d-men. Look at the Lundqvist/Blackburn/Montoya picks. The organization took multiple shots at making sure they had a plan after Richter. Having DZ doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't have Fowler.

Hell, just look at who gets paid out of the d-men on the free agency each summer. We knew Dan Boyle had slowed down, was an injury risk, etc., and we still paid him handsomely. It's a hell of a lot harder to find points from your blueline than it is to find hits and fights.

Phil in Absentia
11-02-2014, 06:35 PM
I long for the day a McIlrath thread can actually be about McIlrath the player and not McIlrath the pick.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 07:30 PM
That's why you don't take projects in the First round.

Every first rd pick out f the top 3 is a project

Pete
11-02-2014, 07:31 PM
Every first rd pick out f the top 3 is a project

That's just not true.

JOHN
11-02-2014, 07:32 PM
Every first rd pick out f the top 3 is a project

Wha... No. How do you figure, exactly?

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 07:38 PM
How many locks are there in the first round? Just to put It in perspective here are the majority of number 10 picks lately you tell me how many locks or studs there have been.

Paajarvi
Mcilrath
Brodin
Koekkoek
Nichushkin

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 07:58 PM
How many locks are there in the first round? Just to put It in perspective here are the majority of number 10 picks lately you tell me how many locks or studs there have been.

Paajarvi
Mcilrath
Brodin
Koekkoek
Nichushkin

McIlrath had the potential to be a Chris Pronger or he could've been a Hal Gill or at worst, a Garnett Exelby (enforcer example). He was a project because nobody knew what he would turn out to be (it's looking like Gill but a better skater at best). Then there are guys like Fowler and Tarasenko, both picked after McIlrath. Fowler was 100% a puck moving defenseman. Tarasenko was 100% a skilled, goal-scoring winger. McIlrath needed a lot of work to fulfill his ultimate potential. Neither Fowler nor Tarasenko did. There were safer picks later in the round that weren't projects. Going in, everyone knew it would take a lot of coaching, playing time and development for McIlrath to be able to play an NHL game.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 08:01 PM
McIlrath had the potential to be a Chris Pronger or he could've been a Hal Gill or at worst, a Garnett Exelby (enforcer example). He was a project because nobody knew what he would turn out to be (it's looking like Gill but a better skater at best). Then there are guys like Fowler and Tarasenko, both picked after McIlrath. Fowler was 100% a puck moving defenseman. Tarasenko was 100% a skilled, goal-scoring winger. McIlrath needed a lot of work to fulfill his ultimate potential. Neither Fowler nor Tarasenko did. There were safer picks later in the round that weren't projects. Going in, everyone knew it would take a lot of coaching, playing time and development for McIlrath to be able to play an NHL game.

I understand that and I didn't like the Mcilrath pick when they made it but they weren't going to draft Fowler because Del Zotto was showing a ton of promise. I wanted Tarasenko but they passed on him it happens. I looked at that draft and can count 9 or 10 guys that went after Mcilrath that still haven't played in the nhl yet either.

JOHN
11-02-2014, 08:14 PM
McIlrath never had Pronger potential. The only things they had in common was size and being Canadian.

Cash or Czech?
11-02-2014, 08:25 PM
I understand that and I didn't like the Mcilrath pick when they made it but they weren't going to draft Fowler because Del Zotto was showing a ton of promise. I wanted Tarasenko but they passed on him it happens. I looked at that draft and can count 9 or 10 guys that went after Mcilrath that still haven't played in the nhl yet either.

That's fine, but there are also guys drafted later that are making impacts such as Justin Faulk, Jon Merrill and Radko Gudas. Still makes McIlrath a project and the draft a crapshoot. But when you have a high pick, you should be picking the best guy available to fill a hole. We had so many holes and we made a rough decision. Lets hope that he can develop into something to soften that impact.

AmericanJesus
11-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Since McIlrath was drafted the NHL went through significant change that also decreased his value. The focus on concussions has allowed more smaller, faster players to crack and stick on rosters. Fighting has decreased. He was going to take longer to make it to the NHL as it was. He dislocated his knee cap. The Rangers also had their defensive core really come together.

It was really a perfect storm against a project to begin with. The pick may never have been the right one but it could certainly have worked out better than it has. There is still time but it's getting short.

That all said, repeating 100 times that they should have taken some other player is beating a dead horse. Having called for it at the time wasn't insightful it was obvious. There were guys rated higher.

All it does is make it impossible to talk about McIlrath today, as it derails the conversation needlessly.

torontonyr
11-02-2014, 09:35 PM
I love McIlrath and really want him to succeed - but he feels more & more like a dinosaur. He was a Torts pick, in the Bruins-era of the NHL. This team, and the league as a whole, have dramatically shifted away from that model. I'm not sure there's a place for him anymore if he can't produce offense or bring with him the threat of a big shot from the point.

DiJock94
11-02-2014, 09:49 PM
I love McIlrath and really want him to succeed - but he feels more & more like a dinosaur. He was a Torts pick, in the Bruins-era of the NHL. This team, and the league as a whole, have dramatically shifted away from that model. I'm not sure there's a place for him anymore if he can't produce offense or bring with him the threat of a big shot from the point.

He is more than just an enforcer. He plays physical. As long as he can skate and keep up with the game he will find his way into the league

G1000
11-02-2014, 09:49 PM
Since McIlrath was drafted the NHL went through significant change that also decreased his value. The focus on concussions has allowed more smaller, faster players to crack and stick on rosters. Fighting has decreased. He was going to take longer to make it to the NHL as it was. He dislocated his knee cap. The Rangers also had their defensive core really come together.

It was really a perfect storm against a project to begin with. The pick may never have been the right one but it could certainly have worked out better than it has. There is still time but it's getting short.

That all said, repeating 100 times that they should have taken some other player is beating a dead horse. Having called for it at the time wasn't insightful it was obvious. There were guys rated higher.

All it does is make it impossible to talk about McIlrath today, as it derails the conversation needlessly.

Barring a trade in which he's the centerpiece, McIlrath's legacy with the Rangers is "He isn't (insert name of other guy we could have drafted) and it took him 4 years to make the NHL so he sucks." It's already sealed and he's not even played two games.

Pete
11-02-2014, 10:23 PM
I haven't read one post In this thread that says he sucks.

Respecttheblue
11-02-2014, 10:31 PM
Now or never, Mac.

I'm inclined to say a prayer.

Y'alls know how much is riding on this.
• One high first round draft pick,
• whether the team will still need, or not, to search elsewhere for defensive help
• what that could cost in prospects and / or players, cap space and money
• lost development time


He is more than just an enforcer. He plays physical. As long as he can skate and keep up with the game he will find his way into the league

and if he can keep up overall and bring a big shot, it wouldn't hurt us to have someone to help gain control of the puck in the corners and get the puck out of the zone when we're being pressed (if he can help). Sometimes it's not only a matter of guile and stick work and IQ, sometimes a little size doesn't hurt when the Kings or other larger more physical teams put the pressure on with the big boys pinning us in our zone.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 09:28 AM
I haven't read one post In this thread that says he sucks.

It's implied through the — and I'm paraphrasing of course — "ugh, why couldn't we have drafted that guy" posts.

Pete
11-03-2014, 09:35 AM
It's implied through the — and I'm paraphrasing of course — "ugh, why couldn't we have drafted that guy" posts. Incorrect, or you must think Stepan sucks, since you'd rather have ROR...

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 09:44 AM
Incorrect, or you must think Stepan sucks, since you'd rather have ROR...

Not really, no. I don't bring up the fact that I wish we took O'Reilly instead every time Stepan's name gets mentioned. It's not as much an implication through those types of posts as much as it is an implication through those types of posts that permeate every single McIlrath thread, or any name where his name is invoked.

It's like watching the hockey version of Candy Man, except McIlrath doesn't kill everyone when he appears in the mirror.

It's like I was saying earlier — the problem isn't even if you are upset over the pick. I think most fans are. Even I wish they took Tarasenko, and I'm one of the biggest McIlrath apologists around. The issue is that threads can't exist that don't invoke this fact. He never gets the benefit of doubt. It's like a player who signs a bad contract. At the end of the day, all you're going to see is that bad number, regardless of how well the player is performing. And even if he's doing really well, it's part of the lexicon of the discussion as a caveat. "Man, [Overpaid Player] is playing really well, but man, that cap hit sucks.."

Morphinity
11-03-2014, 09:46 AM
Not really, no. I don't bring up the fact that I wish we took O'Reilly instead every time Stepan's name gets mentioned. It's not as much an implication through those types of posts as much as it is an implication through those types of posts that permeate every single McIlrath thread, or any name where his name is invoked.

It's like watching the hockey version of Candy Man, except McIlrath doesn't kill everyone when he appears in the mirror.

Yet...

Pete
11-03-2014, 09:55 AM
Not really, no. I don't bring up the fact that I wish we took O'Reilly instead every time Stepan's name gets mentioned. It's not as much an implication through those types of posts as much as it is an implication through those types of posts that permeate every single McIlrath thread, or any name where his name is invoked.

It's like watching the hockey version of Candy Man, except McIlrath doesn't kill everyone when he appears in the mirror.

It's like I was saying earlier — the problem isn't even if you are upset over the pick. I think most fans are. Even I wish they took Tarasenko, and I'm one of the biggest McIlrath apologists around. The issue is that threads can't exist that don't invoke this fact. He never gets the benefit of doubt. It's like a player who signs a bad contract. At the end of the day, all you're going to see is that bad number, regardless of how well the player is performing. And even if he's doing really well, it's part of the lexicon of the discussion as a caveat. "Man, [Overpaid Player] is playing really well, but man, that cap hit sucks.."

And as I said before, people do the same thing when discussing.McD (wow, did Sather ever rope Monteal on that deal LOL) and Lundy (wow, 7 rounder). Does.that bother you?

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 09:58 AM
And as I said before, people do the same thing when discussing.McD (wow, did Sather ever rope Monteal on that deal LOL) and Lundy (wow, 7 rounder). Does.that bother you?

Yes, actually, but I don't think it's as much of a comparable for two reasons:

1. It's done as a positive, so there's less of a reason to be upset over it.
2. It's actually not done in the same manner as the McIlrath reminders are. In fact, I'd argue it happens far infrequently, by comparison. I can probably find half a dozen McDonagh threads this morning with 100 posts in each, and my guess is maybe one post in each might reference Gomez or Gainey in some fashion.

Comparatively, the last six McIlrath threads (if there six threads) are probably 60-80% dominated by this same conversation. And it's always the same two or three users starting it.

phillyb™
11-03-2014, 10:11 AM
i'm excited to watch mcilrath play tonight.

Future
11-03-2014, 10:19 AM
McIlrath never had Pronger potential. The only things they had in common was size and being Canadian.
They both wear a number in the 40's, so there's that.

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 10:19 AM
i'm excited to watch mcilrath play tonight.

Me too

momentum
11-03-2014, 10:22 AM
McIlrath had the potential to be a Chris Pronger or he could've been a Hal Gill or at worst, a Garnett Exelby (enforcer example). He was a project because nobody knew what he would turn out to be (it's looking like Gill but a better skater at best). Then there are guys like Fowler and Tarasenko, both picked after McIlrath. Fowler was 100% a puck moving defenseman. Tarasenko was 100% a skilled, goal-scoring winger. McIlrath needed a lot of work to fulfill his ultimate potential. Neither Fowler nor Tarasenko did. There were safer picks later in the round that weren't projects. Going in, everyone knew it would take a lot of coaching, playing time and development for McIlrath to be able to play an NHL game.

At this point I would be THRILLED if McIlrath ever turned into Hal Gill at his peak during his first couple of years in Toronto, he was slow but used his great reach and strenght to his advantage to compensate and was actually a decent defenseman at that point, and that makes sense, Gill was drafted where McIlrath should have been drafted, in the eight round. McIlrath SHOULD be able to be better than Gill, he has more natural snarl and attitude and it could make him someone to fear, something Gill never had.
At this point though I really hope Dylan makes the best of this opportunity and SHOWS us that he can make a difference at the NHL level, because I really believe at this point he needs to be in the NHL, he will never learn what he needs at the AHL level, the speed of the game is totally different there and the quality of the forwards not even close, he needs to play in the NHL to get used to it and know what he needs to do to be succesful HERE. I hope he learns FAST and makes it hard for the brass to send him down even when ppl come back healthy again. I like the idea of McIlrath, I feel he fills a huge void on our team, but he has to learn how to play at this level and it needs to happen pretty fast now or i think he's days are numbered.

Pete
11-03-2014, 10:25 AM
Yes, actually, but I don't think it's as much of a comparable for two reasons:

1. It's done as a positive, so there's less of a reason to be upset over it.
2. It's actually not done in the same manner as the McIlrath reminders are. In fact, I'd argue it happens far infrequently, by comparison. I can probably find half a dozen McDonagh threads this morning with 100 posts in each, and my guess is maybe one post in each might reference Gomez or Gainey in some fashion.

Comparatively, the last six McIlrath threads (if there six threads) are probably 60-80% dominated by this same conversation. And it's always the same two or three users starting it.

Maybe once McI actually gets a decent number of games in the NHL to show what he has, it'll stop. But I can assure you that it probably wont stop if he turns into Mike Komisarek. Nor should it. For a team that's in the habit of giving away first rounders like candy, an utter balls-out miss in that draft, where were could have had an impact scoring wing (kinda like the one we're always looking for...), is absolutely a valid conversation.

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 10:46 AM
Maybe once McI actually gets a decent number of games in the NHL to show what he has, it'll stop. But I can assure you that it probably wont stop if he turns into Mike Komisarek. Nor should it. For a team that's in the habit of giving away first rounders like candy, an utter balls-out miss in that draft, where were could have had an impact scoring wing (kinda like the one we're always looking for...), is absolutely a valid conversation.

I agree with you and I was yelling at the tv when they didn't take tarasenko, but the rangers must have still felt the burn on Cherepanov, or they were scared they wouldn't get him to America. Only reasonable explanation because he was touted as a top 5 pick

torontonyr
11-03-2014, 10:52 AM
He is more than just an enforcer. He plays physical. As long as he can skate and keep up with the game he will find his way into the league

Sure, but he's missing the fleet of foot needed to apply that physicality.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 10:57 AM
Maybe once McI actually gets a decent number of games in the NHL to show what he has, it'll stop. But I can assure you that it probably wont stop if he turns into Mike Komisarek. Nor should it. For a team that's in the habit of giving away first rounders like candy, an utter balls-out miss in that draft, where were could have had an impact scoring wing (kinda like the one we're always looking for...), is absolutely a valid conversation.

Of course it is. That's not the point being made here. The point is that it shouldn't be a black cloud over every aspect of McIlrath's career, or more importantly, that it shouldn't be a black cloud over every thread made on him on the forum. This is, believe it or not, the exact same thing we got upset over with Tortorella. It became impossible to have any kind of objective discussion about his coaching because one or two users would come barreling into those threads, every time, with some stupid one-liner about shot blocking and Larry Brooks. The moment they were made, the thread was lost.

It works the same way every time, too:

McIlrath has a fight » Thread goes up with video » Comments about fight » Eventual comment about him being a bad pick » Spiral into same conversation as always
McIlrath scores a goal » Thread goes up with video » Comments about goal » Eventual comment about him being a bad pick » Spiral into same conversation as always

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Of course it is. That's not the point being made here. The point is that it shouldn't be a black cloud over every aspect of McIlrath's career, or more importantly, that it shouldn't be a black cloud over every thread made on him on the forum. This is, believe it or not, the exact same thing we got upset over with Tortorella. It became impossible to have any kind of objective discussion about his coaching because one or two users would come barreling into those threads, every time, with some stupid one-liner about shot blocking and Larry Brooks. The moment they were made, the thread was lost.

It works the same way every time, too:

McIlrath has a fight » Thread goes up with video » Comments about fight » Eventual comment about him being a bad pick » Spiral into same conversation as always
McIlrath scores a goal » Thread goes up with video » Comments about goal » Eventual comment about him being a bad pick » Spiral into same conversation as always

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

No, the problem with Tortorella is that there were a handful of people who injected him into every thread. If you want to talk about Torts being a bad coach, do it in the Torts thread. If you want to talk about McI being a bad pick, do it in the McI thread. That's where it's supposed to happen.

If it starts happening in every GDT or is every other area of the board, then yea, that's annoying.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:06 AM
No, the problem with Tortorella is that there were a handful of people who injected him into every thread. If you want to talk about Torts being a bad coach, do it in the Torts thread. If you want to talk about McI being a bad pick, do it in the McI thread. That's where it's supposed to happen.

If it starts happening in every GDT or is every other area of the board, then yea, that's annoying.

I mean, I guess, yes, but I think you'd agree that if a pretty specific thread was opened on Tortorella, like on his decision to play Girardi on the PP, or his ice time decisions for the D pairings, you'd be pretty annoyed when twenty posts in, the conversation was now about how he's a shot-blocking neanderthal whose decisions produce sleep-inducing effects on Rangers' games.

That's not what the thread was set up for at all, even if it's technically a thread about Tortorella. The thread to talk that way about him would need to be in a more "Objective Discussion about John Tortorella as Head Coach" thread than "Torts Gives Girardi-McDonagh 30% more ice time than Third Pairing" thread.

So while yes, it'd be exceptionally worse if this McIlrath stuff was happening in every thread, it's still aggravating that it happens in every McIlrath thread, no matter how directed the OP is.

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 11:15 AM
I mean, I guess, yes, but I think you'd agree that if a pretty specific thread was opened on Tortorella, like on his decision to play Girardi on the PP, or his ice time decisions for the D pairings, you'd be pretty annoyed when twenty posts in, the conversation was now about how he's a shot-blocking neanderthal whose decisions produce sleep-inducing effects on Rangers' games.

That's not what the thread was set up for at all, even if it's technically a thread about Tortorella. The thread to talk that way about him would need to be in a more "Objective Discussion about John Tortorella as Head Coach" thread than "Torts Gives Girardi-McDonagh 30% more ice time than Third Pairing" thread.

So while yes, it'd be exceptionally worse if this McIlrath stuff was happening in every thread, it's still aggravating that it happens in every McIlrath thread, no matter how directed the OP is.

I agree with this in some senses...I believe this conversation is basically to see what impact McIlrath will have now that he is recalled and if he can stick and what people's opinions are on it. Because we all have our opinions on him obviously, but at the same time, did everyone forget about the fact that Allen has been called up as well.

Yes it seems that every conversation that even mentions McIlrath goes off the rails on the same conversation over and over again. He was picked ahead of x,y,z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g...This thread I believe at least is one that could be open to the conversation about McIlrath and his potential success or failure...but at the same time it seems that it is just going back and forth on a few people giving the same opinion between themselves in different words. It's the same argument put out by people 12 times each by simply wording it differently it's just a little odd.

I'd like to hear what people's honest opinion of us bringing him up, if they believe he will stay with the club once say Moore gets back, also the same with Allen....We're not far off from having Allen, Klein, and Boyle back, so what if these two kids play real well, what do you do then... What do we do if one plays pretty well and the other doesn't? That should be more of an emphasis in this thread but that is only my opinion.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:17 AM
I mean, I guess, yes, but I think you'd agree that if a pretty specific thread was opened on Tortorella, like on his decision to play Girardi on the PP, or his ice time decisions for the D pairings, you'd be pretty annoyed when twenty posts in, the conversation was now about how he's a shot-blocking neanderthal whose decisions produce sleep-inducing effects on Rangers' games.

That's not what the thread was set up for at all, even if it's technically a thread about Tortorella. The thread to talk that way about him would need to be in a more "Objective Discussion about John Tortorella as Head Coach" thread than "Torts Gives Girardi-McDonagh 30% more ice time than Third Pairing" thread.

So while yes, it'd be exceptionally worse if this McIlrath stuff was happening in every thread, it's still aggravating that it happens in every McIlrath thread, no matter how directed the OP is.

Yea, but he's a 22 year old defenseman who's played 2 NHL games. There's no other body of work to talk about. There's nothing to discuss, other than what's being discussed. What else is there to say? "I hope he hits someone!"?

When there are other things to talk about, we'll talk about them, I'm sure.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:20 AM
I agree with this in some senses...I believe this conversation is basically to see what impact McIlrath will have now that he is recalled and if he can stick and what people's opinions are on it. Because we all have our opinions on him obviously, but at the same time, did everyone forget about the fact that Allen has been called up as well.

Yes it seems that every conversation that even mentions McIlrath goes off the rails on the same conversation over and over again. He was picked ahead of x,y,z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g...This thread I believe at least is one that could be open to the conversation about McIlrath and his potential success or failure...but at the same time it seems that it is just going back and forth on a few people giving the same opinion between themselves in different words. It's the same argument put out by people 12 times each by simply wording it differently it's just a little odd.

I'd like to hear what people's honest opinion of us bringing him up, if they believe he will stay with the club once say Moore gets back, also the same with Allen....We're not far off from having Allen, Klein, and Boyle back, so what if these two kids play real well, what do you do then... What do we do if one plays pretty well and the other doesn't? That should be more of an emphasis in this thread but that is only my opinion.

I mean, it's obvious...What's our opinion of bringing him up? They didn't really have a choice. It was between him, Bodie and Allen. He didn't exactly play so well that he forced his way up. All the other stuff will be discussed when he plays. Do we see them keeping him when Moore is back? I don't know, he hasn't played yet. He could bomb out and go back down tomorrow. He could play so well he forces his way in.

Again, there's nothing to talk about until they play.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:22 AM
I agree with this in some senses...I believe this conversation is basically to see what impact McIlrath will have now that he is recalled and if he can stick and what people's opinions are on it. Because we all have our opinions on him obviously, but at the same time, did everyone forget about the fact that Allen has been called up as well.

Yes it seems that every conversation that even mentions McIlrath goes off the rails on the same conversation over and over again. He was picked ahead of x,y,z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g...This thread I believe at least is one that could be open to the conversation about McIlrath and his potential success or failure...but at the same time it seems that it is just going back and forth on a few people giving the same opinion between themselves in different words. It's the same argument put out by people 12 times each by simply wording it differently it's just a little odd.

I'd like to hear what people's honest opinion of us bringing him up, if they believe he will stay with the club once say Moore gets back, also the same with Allen....We're not far off from having Allen, Klein, and Boyle back, so what if these two kids play real well, what do you do then... What do we do if one plays pretty well and the other doesn't? That should be more of an emphasis in this thread but that is only my opinion.

The way I see it, the earlier posts about this being sort of a "now or never" moment for him are on point. I don't think he's at the end of his rope, per se, but he's near it for certain, and this is the type of opportunity he can use to climb a few rungs by giving the Rangers everything they need at the moment — namely stability on the third pairing. If he can step in and just play solid, mistake-free hockey, he'll at the very least make the job of the coaching staff a lot more difficult when Moore is back from his suspension, and when Klein returns from his contusion. Right now, McIlrath and Allen are both competing with both these men for positions on the roster. John Moore especially.


Yea, but he's a 22 year old defenseman who's played 2 NHL games. There's no other body of work to talk about. There's nothing to discuss, other than what's being discussed. What else is there to say? "I hope he hits someone!"?

When there are other things to talk about, we'll talk about them, I'm sure.

And I'm sure we'll be reminded in those other things threads, probably around the 20th or 30th post, that Vladimir Tarasenko was available, but instead, we took Mike Komisarek, as if we forgot.

And I'll be sure to point out this same point I'm making now, then, just to reiterate how annoying it is to read, considering it's not actually revelatory in any way. It's being reminded you have broken ribs by being kicked in them again. And again. And again.

Hey, how are your ribs doing these days, by the way? :slowly puts on steel-toed boots:

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 11:23 AM
I'm hoping he can show he atleast belongs at this level in any facet. Hard to believe he could unseat Girardi Boyle or Klein when they all recover from injury, but atleast he should have a decent stretch here to show he belongs at this level before being sent back.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:24 AM
And I'm sure we'll be reminded in those other things threads, probably around the 20th or 30th post, that Vladimir Tarasenko was available, but instead, we took Mike Komisarek, as if we forgot.

And I'll be sure to point out this same point I'm making now, then, just to reiterate how annoying it is to read, considering it's not actually revelatory in any way. It's being reminded you have broken ribs by being kicked in them again. And again. And again.

Hey, how are your ribs doing these days, by the way? :slowly puts on steel-toed boots:I think you're being overly sensitive and jumping the gun, since none of that happened in his 2 games last season. You're already upset about something that hasn't happened yet.

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 11:24 AM
I mean, it's obvious...What's our opinion of bringing him up? They didn't really have a choice. It was between him, Bodie and Allen. He didn't exactly play so well that he forced his way up. All the other stuff will be discussed when he plays. Do we see them keeping him when Moore is back? I don't know, he hasn't played yet. He could bomb out and go back down tomorrow. He could play so well he forces his way in.

Again, there's nothing to talk about until they play.

My point is, did he do anything in the minors to give him the shot instead of anyone else on the Hartford roster? I don't watch them play because between work, my wife, her family and mine I dont have time to watch the Hartford team, I watch every Ranger game just not enough time to pay attention to them....but have either of them earned any sort of reason to be the first call up, or are they just purely stop gaps and they really wont be given a shot even if they are doing well here. I guess that is my main question...sorry if I didn't phrase it well.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:25 AM
I think you're being overly sensitive and jumping the gun, since none of that happened in his 2 games last season. You're already upset about something that hasn't happened yet.

I'm upset about something that's happened numerous times in the past, and began to happen in this thread before he even played. There's a foundation there to stand on. This isn't coming out of left field.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:25 AM
My point is, did he do anything in the minors to give him the shot instead of anyone else on the Hartford roster? I don't watch them play because between work, my wife, her family and mine I dont have time to watch the Hartford team, I watch every Ranger game just not enough time to pay attention to them....but have either of them earned any sort of reason to be the first call up, or are they just purely stop gaps and they really wont be given a shot even if they are doing well here. I guess that is my main question...sorry if I didn't phrase it well.

Again, looking at the sequence of events, they chose to play Kostka over McIlrath when Moore was suspended...That should tell you what you need to know.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:26 AM
I'm upset about something that's happened numerous times in the past, and began to happen in this thread before he even played. There's a foundation there to stand on. This isn't coming out of left field.

And we covered why it's happened in the past. When he plays more, the conversation will change.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:27 AM
Again, looking at the sequence of events, they chose to play Kostka over McIlrath when Moore was suspended...That should tell you what you need to know.

Sure, that Kostka is a journeyman NHL defenseman and McIlrath wasn't ready yet.

There really isn't anything deeper to read into.

The depth will come if/when they trade McIlrath for something paltry the way they did Sanguinetti. That's when you know and have evidence for the fact that the organization has given up.


And we covered why it's happened in the past. When he plays more, the conversation will change.

I doubt it, honestly. He's too much of a lightning rod considering the success of Tarasenko. He's never going to live that down, even though it's not actually his fault.

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 11:28 AM
Again, looking at the sequence of events, they chose to play Kostka over McIlrath when Moore was suspended...That should tell you what you need to know.

Kostka was already up with the team, to bring up Mcilrath over him would have meant waiving someone just like they did to Malone.

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 11:31 AM
I doubt it, honestly. He's too much of a lightning rod considering the success of Tarasenko. He's never going to live that down, even though it's not actually his fault.

I can just imagine now the board if Tarasenko walks around him once and scores and the uproar....I hope it doesn't happen but I think I won't be on the computer if that happens because I just can't imagine the backlash on it.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:38 AM
I can just imagine now the board if Tarasenko walks around him once and scores and the uproar....I hope it doesn't happen but I think I won't be on the computer if that happens because I just can't imagine the backlash on it.

I mean, even I'd laugh if that occurs, for obvious reasons, but I can definitely see that going south real fast.

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 11:42 AM
I mean, even I'd laugh if that occurs, for obvious reasons, but I can definitely see that going south real fast.

We could win the game 4-1 but that scenario would be the highlight and hot topic of the night by far

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Does anyone have any reports on how Allen and McIlrath have played so far THIS season in the AHL? I don't need stats just how they look if anyone has watched any games or anything like that, any reports?

Myusername
11-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Maybe once McI actually gets a decent number of games in the NHL to show what he has, it'll stop. But I can assure you that it probably wont stop if he turns into Mike Komisarek. Nor should it. For a team that's in the habit of giving away first rounders like candy, an utter balls-out miss in that draft, where were could have had an impact scoring wing (kinda like the one we're always looking for...), is absolutely a valid conversation.

It was a valid conversation... years ago. By now there is overwhelming consensus on the part of Rangers fans that we screwed the pick up, so I personally really don't see a reason to have long-winded conversations about the obvious.

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:45 AM
I mean the answer is obvious. It's an appropriate convo, in the appropriate thread. No one has to click the link.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 11:52 AM
I mean the answer is obvious. It's an appropriate convo, in the appropriate thread. No one has to click the link.

No, it's an appropriate conversation in an inappropriate thread.

The thread is designed on them being called up, so the most appropriate conversation to have is about what they can contribute, and how they can stay, not where they were drafted, or who was taken ahead of them.

Again, it's Tortorella Disease. It's an infectious virus that affixes itself to a healthy conversation and eventually kills it by multiplying and taking over the host (OP).

Pete
11-03-2014, 11:53 AM
Well, I don't agree, so this is where I'll stop clicking this link.

G1000
11-03-2014, 12:07 PM
Do we really want more from him than, say, 16 minutes of positionally strong defense and a few hits tonight?

I'd be happy with that.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 12:18 PM
Do we really want more from him than, say, 16 minutes of positionally strong defense and a few hits tonight?

I'd be happy with that.

I'm not sure he'll get that high in ice-time, but yeah, ideally I want just solid, mistake-free minutes where he and Allen aren't minus-players and are contributing to the success of the team in both ends of the rink.

Throw in a few solid hits, scrums and maybe a fight and I'd chalk it all up to a great night for a guy in desperate need of one.

G1000
11-03-2014, 12:23 PM
I'm not sure he'll get that high in ice-time, but yeah, ideally I want just solid, mistake-free minutes where he and Allen aren't minus-players and are contributing to the success of the team in both ends of the rink.

Throw in a few solid hits, scrums and maybe a fight and I'd chalk it all up to a great night for a guy in desperate need of one.

I figure if he and Allen can play 16 each, we can probably get 16 out of Kostka and Hunwick and then 28 from Staal-G.

That....was a sentence I never hoped to type.

momentum
11-03-2014, 01:18 PM
I can just imagine now the board if Tarasenko walks around him once and scores and the uproar....I hope it doesn't happen but I think I won't be on the computer if that happens because I just can't imagine the backlash on it.

How about if McIlrath crushes Tarasenko with a huge fucking hit, lays him out. That's what I hope will happen. That's the kind of stuff McI needs to do to shed his bad image as a flop pick.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 01:24 PM
I'm not normally one for the interviews on BlueshirtsUnited, or the ones conducted by Jim Cerny in general (he's a dork, and tends to ask really dorky, lead-nowhere questions that have canned answers), but the interview with McIlrath up on the site right now is actually really good.

http://www.blueshirtsunited.com/video/dylan-mcilrath-one-one?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tweets&utm_content=twitter_1415038227

The two takeaways I got from this were his composure, which looks and sounds, well, composed. He doesn't seem or sound nearly as nervous as he did last season when he was brought up for those two games. The other was the response about how nervous and "star-struck" he was last season, and how he's changing his approach this time around to play the game he plays. That's reassuring, especially if you are of the same mind I am with just wanting to see solid, mistake-free hockey from him. Him earning a spot with this team could be as simple as him finding the right comfort level to play effectively on a perceived weak pairing, which would already put him ahead of John Moore, who is being used because of his raw talents, not because of his actual affect with them, which is negligible.

Add in a few hard hits and maybe a fight and I think you could see him actually snatch a spot. At least for the time being.

Pete
11-03-2014, 01:27 PM
He can't really be any worse for 12:00 a night than John Moore.

Pete
11-03-2014, 01:28 PM
How about if McIlrath crushes Tarasenko with a huge fucking hit, lays him out. That's what I hope will happen. That's the kind of stuff McI needs to do to shed his bad image as a flop pick.

I don't think he'll ever shed that image, but it's not his fault he was picked there.

I'd be happy with a guy who isn't going to hurt you for 14-16/night. Anything else is gravy.

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 01:38 PM
He can't really be any worse for 12:00 a night than John Moore.

Ditto

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 01:39 PM
I'm not normally one for the interviews on BlueshirtsUnited, or the ones conducted by Jim Cerny in general (he's a dork, and tends to ask really dorky, lead-nowhere questions that have canned answers), but the interview with McIlrath up on the site right now is actually really good.

http://www.blueshirtsunited.com/video/dylan-mcilrath-one-one?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tweets&utm_content=twitter_1415038227

The two takeaways I got from this were his composure, which looks and sounds, well, composed. He doesn't seem or sound nearly as nervous as he did last season when he was brought up for those two games. The other was the response about how nervous and "star-struck" he was last season, and how he's changing his approach this time around to play the game he plays. That's reassuring, especially if you are of the same mind I am with just wanting to see solid, mistake-free hockey from him. Him earning a spot with this team could be as simple as him finding the right comfort level to play effectively on a perceived weak pairing, which would already put him ahead of John Moore, who is being used because of his raw talents, not because of his actual affect with them, which is negligible.

Add in a few hard hits and maybe a fight and I think you could see him actually snatch a spot. At least for the time being.

He is effing huge. Definitely seems cool and focused a lot more mature than last year. I'm pretty pumped to see what the kid can do.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 01:47 PM
He can't really be any worse for 12:00 a night than John Moore.

Exactly. I was saying above, I actually think he stands a punchers chance at knocking Moore out of the line-up (all pun intended) if he can give the Rangers the same minutes and role, but more effectively than Moore (which shouldn't be too difficult, considering how poor Moore has played, and how slow he seems to "learn").

If there are a couple big hits and/or fights thrown in (that he wins), by all means. That's icing on the cake. All he needs to do to remain in the line-up right now is to play solid, mistake-free hockey. No negative attention.


I don't think he'll ever shed that image, but it's not his fault he was picked there.

I'd be happy with a guy who isn't going to hurt you for 14-16/night. Anything else is gravy.

That kind of image can get shed over years. You'll always have trace reminders no matter what (especially with Tarasenko, if this pace of success continues with him and the Blues), but they may eventually get glossed over if he becomes a regular NHL defender and gives the Rangers what they saw out of him when they picked him.

Puck Head
11-03-2014, 01:53 PM
I've rather excited about getting to see Mcilrath play.
Obviously this is NOT the typical situation you want ANY young developing defenseman walking into, I'm keeping expectations low.

A few things I will be looking for.
- His positioning down low, and keeping chest square to carrier.
- Quicker releases between him and Allen down low on carrier pursuit. We have been somewhat spoiled with McD/Girardi, Staal/Stralman/Klein etc. I would expect more emphasis on containment (space) rather then commit (time).
- Through the neutral zone watch his hips, he had a habit to open up way too quickly (looking for lateral contact aka Stevens). As a defenseman we teach to watch chest of puck carrier, and a forward with possession, I always watched hips. He looked better this preseason IMO in regards to that.
- Biggest thing i'll be watching for is his work down low on puck battles. He will have to get much deeper in stance. Due to some lack of mobility, he's had to play on his "toes", which has made him more agile, but takes away proper structure, (athletic stance, etc). As his edges improve, he can become deeper in that structure, and thus stronger on edges. First few preseasons he was "light" on his skates, I believe that has been improving.

Fact is he's has a world class work ethic and character from what I've been told. He simply will have to play within himself.
- Limit mistakes, (they ARE going to happen).
- Stay out of box, (we simply can't afford PM's right now from defenseman).
- Active stick, but don't rely on that long reach. The lateral movement of opponents in his zone with puck will be the biggest change for him. Let's see how he reacts to that.

Once he does those things, he can THEN start to exert himself upon others (they physical aspect we lack).
But I wouldn't plan on too much of that first few games.

Let's go Undertaker!!

Ranger Lothbrok
11-03-2014, 03:20 PM
I long for the day a McIlrath thread can actually be about McIlrath the player and not McIlrath the pick.

Not being cute or trying to be a dick at all here, but I think that discussion happens when we actually SEE McIlrath the player at an NHL level. Possibly as soon as after tonight's game. Until then, it's all going to be what-could-have-beens, because the jury is still out on him (by a long shot), but the other guys are paying dividends for their teams already.

Ranger Lothbrok
11-03-2014, 03:25 PM
I've rather excited about getting to see Mcilrath play.
Obviously this is NOT the typical situation you want ANY young developing defenseman walking into, I'm keeping expectations low.

A few things I will be looking for.
- His positioning down low, and keeping chest square to carrier.
- Quicker releases between him and Allen down low on carrier pursuit. We have been somewhat spoiled with McD/Girardi, Staal/Stralman/Klein etc. I would expect more emphasis on containment (space) rather then commit (time).
- Through the neutral zone watch his hips, he had a habit to open up way too quickly (looking for lateral contact aka Stevens). As a defenseman we teach to watch chest of puck carrier, and a forward with possession, I always watched hips. He looked better this preseason IMO in regards to that.
- Biggest thing i'll be watching for is his work down low on puck battles. He will have to get much deeper in stance. Due to some lack of mobility, he's had to play on his "toes", which has made him more agile, but takes away proper structure, (athletic stance, etc). As his edges improve, he can become deeper in that structure, and thus stronger on edges. First few preseasons he was "light" on his skates, I believe that has been improving.

Fact is he's has a world class work ethic and character from what I've been told. He simply will have to play within himself.
- Limit mistakes, (they ARE going to happen).
- Stay out of box, (we simply can't afford PM's right now from defenseman).
- Active stick, but don't rely on that long reach. The lateral movement of opponents in his zone with puck will be the biggest change for him. Let's see how he reacts to that.

Once he does those things, he can THEN start to exert himself upon others (they physical aspect we lack).
But I wouldn't plan on too much of that first few games.

Let's go Undertaker!!

Just from what I saw in the preseason, I liked how he played smart. Solid positioning, playing the body and not the puck, etc.. He didn't take himself out of position to go for the big hit, even though that's what would've endeared him to the fans and what everyone was expecting. He was clearly clutching a little hard on the stick, as some of the outlet passes, while accurate, were overshot a bit and hard for the receiver to control. That's almost definitely nerves.

The big thing I'll be looking for tonight is pace. There's a huge difference between a preseason game that everyone uses to evaluate their farm team, and a regular season game against a top team with some dangerous/shifty forwards, physical behemoths, and a smart/gritty checking game. If he can keep up, stay out of the box, be in position, and not get exposed, I'll call it a win. He can go for dropping the gloves and hitting like Scott Stevens when he's adjusted to the pace. For now, I want to see how well he can skate against real NHL-level skating talent. It's good for him that he'll be at MSG; you know he'll get a warm welcome by the fans (at least until he makes his first mistake), and the crowd should fire him up a bit. Hope he has fun tonight.

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 03:40 PM
Just from what I saw in the preseason, I liked how he played smart. Solid positioning, playing the body and not the puck, etc.. He didn't take himself out of position to go for the big hit, even though that's what would've endeared him to the fans and what everyone was expecting. He was clearly clutching a little hard on the stick, as some of the outlet passes, while accurate, were overshot a bit and hard for the receiver to control. That's almost definitely nerves.

The big thing I'll be looking for tonight is pace. There's a huge difference between a preseason game that everyone uses to evaluate their farm team, and a regular season game against a top team with some dangerous/shifty forwards, physical behemoths, and a smart/gritty checking game. If he can keep up, stay out of the box, be in position, and not get exposed, I'll call it a win. He can go for dropping the gloves and hitting like Scott Stevens when he's adjusted to the pace. For now, I want to see how well he can skate against real NHL-level skating talent. It's good for him that he'll be at MSG; you know he'll get a warm welcome by the fans (at least until he makes his first mistake), and the crowd should fire him up a bit. Hope he has fun tonight.

Atleast you know he isn't going to get manhandled by the blues big gritty forwards

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 03:43 PM
Atleast you know he isn't going to get manhandled by the blues big gritty forwards

Not at all, but the important part of his game will be containing their speedier forwards, if he's out on the ice against them, based on how the match-ups and line changes ebb and flow.

He just needs to play a solid, mistake-free, positional game. Limit mistakes (bound to make a few — no one is perfect), stay out of the box, etc.

jjweimar
11-03-2014, 03:48 PM
My hope for tonight is for him to not get caught because his skating isn't great...I don't want to see the hooking/slashing/tripping (any stick) penalties in the game. I would rather see a roughing or an elbowing penalty than a stick infraction. He reminds me a little of Jordie Benn but with better fighting ability, Mc can throw better hits and fight better, Benn is a slightly better skater with a little better awareness in his own zone. But the problem with Jordie is he takes penalties because his skating is still subpar, can't afford a couple of stupid hooking penalties because he's caught flat or out of position

DiJock94
11-03-2014, 04:06 PM
We will see. This is definitely a better matchup to get him going than the Canadians

momentum
11-03-2014, 05:15 PM
I've rather excited about getting to see Mcilrath play.
Obviously this is NOT the typical situation you want ANY young developing defenseman walking into, I'm keeping expectations low.

A few things I will be looking for.
- His positioning down low, and keeping chest square to carrier.
- Quicker releases between him and Allen down low on carrier pursuit. We have been somewhat spoiled with McD/Girardi, Staal/Stralman/Klein etc. I would expect more emphasis on containment (space) rather then commit (time).
- Through the neutral zone watch his hips, he had a habit to open up way too quickly (looking for lateral contact aka Stevens). As a defenseman we teach to watch chest of puck carrier, and a forward with possession, I always watched hips. He looked better this preseason IMO in regards to that.
- Biggest thing i'll be watching for is his work down low on puck battles. He will have to get much deeper in stance. Due to some lack of mobility, he's had to play on his "toes", which has made him more agile, but takes away proper structure, (athletic stance, etc). As his edges improve, he can become deeper in that structure, and thus stronger on edges. First few preseasons he was "light" on his skates, I believe that has been improving.

Fact is he's has a world class work ethic and character from what I've been told. He simply will have to play within himself.
- Limit mistakes, (they ARE going to happen).
- Stay out of box, (we simply can't afford PM's right now from defenseman).
- Active stick, but don't rely on that long reach. The lateral movement of opponents in his zone with puck will be the biggest change for him. Let's see how he reacts to that.

Once he does those things, he can THEN start to exert himself upon others (they physical aspect we lack).
But I wouldn't plan on too much of that first few games.

Let's go Undertaker!!

YEH BABY!!! Can't wait, great post btw. I think most of us are REALLY pulling for this kid to make it. with his size and attitude if he could just develop a sound, simple mistake free game with tough hits and strong presence in puckb attles along the boards and in front of Hank he could really be a valuable player.

Gorilla Salad
11-03-2014, 05:30 PM
YEH BABY!!! Can't wait, great post btw. I think most of us are REALLY pulling for this kid to make it. with his size and attitude if he could just develop a sound, simple mistake free game with tough hits and strong presence in puckb attles along the boards and in front of Hank he could really be a valuable player.

We need size and attitude back there. I'm pulling for this kid to take advantage of this huge opportunity.

Pete
11-03-2014, 06:18 PM
I keep reading this, regarding Malone as well. Bus it's simply not accurate given Vigneault's still.

Quicker, better skating D who can make an outlet pass will help us far more than a banger.

I'm expecting Allen to shine there.

Phil in Absentia
11-03-2014, 07:25 PM
I keep reading this, regarding Malone as well. Bus it's simply not accurate given Vigneault's still.

Quicker, better skating D who can make an outlet pass will help us far more than a banger.

I'm expecting Allen to shine there.

Skating D who can make a pass, yes. Quicker? I dunno. I mean, it's definitely valuable, but I don't know if it's a requirement. He had Kevin Bieksa for years, after all, and played him in one of the highest profile roles on Vancouver every year.

John Moore, after all, is the opposite of Bieksa in that respect. Great skater, great quickness, and can even pass the puck well enough. But zero brains.

Ranger Lothbrok
11-03-2014, 08:59 PM
Skating D who can make a pass, yes. Quicker? I dunno. I mean, it's definitely valuable, but I don't know if it's a requirement. He had Kevin Bieksa for years, after all, and played him in one of the highest profile roles on Vancouver every year.

Right, and a good d-man is a good d-man any way you cut it. Sure, somebody's skill set might be better suited for a particular style of play, or a particular system, but that doesn't make them the best option by default. If you have 3 or 4 other d-men (one for each pair) who can skate well and make good outlet passes, it's still a problem if they all stand there and watch when Hank gets bowled over. Or if they get pinned on the boards by a Backes type and lose the puck.

JOHN
11-03-2014, 09:02 PM
I love McIlrath and really want him to succeed - but he feels more & more like a dinosaur. He was a Torts pick, in the Bruins-era of the NHL. This team, and the league as a whole, have dramatically shifted away from that model. I'm not sure there's a place for him anymore if he can't produce offense or bring with him the threat of a big shot from the point.

The league shifts towards whatever model works, and a model works when you can assemble personnel in such a way that brings out the best in that group of players. The Bruins model isn't dead, they just succumbed to the downsides of a salary cap league.

Respecttheblue
11-03-2014, 11:06 PM
YEH BABY!!! Can't wait, great post btw. I think most of us are REALLY pulling for this kid to make it. with his size and attitude if he could just develop a sound, simple mistake free game with tough hits and strong presence in puckb attles along the boards and in front of Hank he could really be a valuable player.

Right that Puck Hed post was spesh, and I'm rooting hard for DillyMac (wha?) and Conor Allen. Nice story by Maloney on the radio about the tearful woman in th stands. Conor's sister, overjoyed to see him get to play in the NHL.


The league shifts towards whatever model works, and a model works when you can assemble personnel in such a way that brings out the best in that group of players. The Bruins model isn't dead, they just succumbed to the downsides of a salary cap league.

Right, and it's not like it's a whole team we're talking about here. It doesn't hurt to have some different looks available and be able to present different looks to different opponents, or even the same opponent... well at least down the line a bit, if he gets a chance to get in a groove.

Phil in Absentia
11-04-2014, 01:29 PM
:tweet: @AGrossRecord: AV applauds Dylan McIlrath's "courage" for fighting Reaves. But "I don't know how much room is left in the game for that now."

Puck Head
11-04-2014, 01:34 PM
:tweet: @AGrossRecord: AV applauds Dylan McIlrath's "courage" for fighting Reaves. But "I don't know how much room is left in the game for that now."

I understand what AV is saying, but there will always be room for character in this game.
McIlrath has a ton of that.

Lt. Dan
11-04-2014, 01:38 PM
I understand what AV is saying, but there will always be room for character in this game.
McIlrath has a ton of that.

:thumbs:

Phil in Absentia
11-04-2014, 01:39 PM
I understand what AV is saying, but there will always be room for character in this game.
McIlrath has a ton of that.

I agree, but I think we're lacking context here. I do agree that the sort of staged, off the drop fighting like Reaves/McIlrath was doesn't have much room left in the game for it.

McIlrath's character, and his willingness to defend teammates will always be endearing, however.

Pete
11-04-2014, 01:44 PM
I see no reason for there ever to be a staged fight. If tempers flare due to a continuation of play, so be it. Staged fights are uncalled for, IMO.

Puck Head
11-04-2014, 01:51 PM
I see no reason for there ever to be a staged fight. If tempers flare due to a continuation of play, so be it. Staged fights are uncalled for, IMO.

I'm glad these staged fights are seen less in the NHL, still see plenty of them in Jr hockey.
One aspect of the game I couldn't ever understand, I like fights instigated with anger, not tactics.

Phil in Absentia
11-04-2014, 01:54 PM
I see no reason for there ever to be a staged fight. If tempers flare due to a continuation of play, so be it. Staged fights are uncalled for, IMO.


I'm glad these staged fights are seen less in the NHL, still see plenty of them in Jr hockey.
One aspect of the game I couldn't ever understand, I like fights instigated with anger, not tactics.

While I agree, there are scenarios where a "staged fight" isn't actually staged, even if it appears that way. If Zucc gets head-hunted by Zack Kassian, for example, and Glass isn't on the ice to jump him right away, if a couple shifts later they manage to be out at the same time and Glass and Kassian go right off the draw, that's not really "staged" to me. It is, in the sense that the stage was set for it, but it isn't if you take into account the context behind why.

To me, a "staged fight" is a fight that doesn't actually have a cause. It's a fight for the sake of two guys fighting, to wake the crowd up, basically.

cousin
11-04-2014, 04:54 PM
YEH BABY!!! Can't wait, great post btw. I think most of us are REALLY pulling for this kid to make it. with his size and attitude if he could just develop a sound, simple mistake free game with tough hits and strong presence in puckb attles along the boards and in front of Hank he could really be a valuable player.Don't look like that's going to happen any time soon. Unfortunately.

Bugg
11-04-2014, 05:36 PM
I see no reason for there ever to be a staged fight. If tempers flare due to a continuation of play, so be it. Staged fights are uncalled for, IMO.John Giannone described how Reaves and McIlrath were talking very politely across the partition while in the penalty box, as if this was a day at the office for both of them. Don't really see that any more. McIlrath otherwise had a decent game, but given the thinness of the defense, he has to stay out of the box.Toughness is a positive. 5 minutes in the box means more minutes for Staal and Girardi that the rangers over the season can ill afford.