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View Full Version : [Lavoie] MSL Wants One or Two More Seasons, Wants to Retire with NYR



Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 10:16 AM
:tweet: @renlavoietva: Martin St-Louis is 39, but he's not ready to retired. He still wants to play a year or 2 and his wish is to finish his career with the NYR.

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Not shocking info. This was known shortly after the trade was announced last season.

Pete
10-27-2014, 10:21 AM
Better start scoring, then, Marty.

AmericanJesus
10-27-2014, 10:33 AM
Better start scoring, then, Marty.

This. And sign a cap friendly one year, bonus filled deal.

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 10:35 AM
This. And sign a cap friendly one year, bonus filled deal.

That much I think is a given. They'd probably just follow the same path Iginla has carved out with Boston the last two seasons. Or Jgr with New Jersey. Lower base salary, and a ton of performance bonuses built in that could roll over into the following years' cap if necessary.

Pete
10-27-2014, 10:35 AM
Seriously my patience is up with him. He really looks like he's been a product of superior line mates for the last few seasons because his 2-3 regular season goals since the trade (waht is it not, close to 30 games?) isn't going to cut it.

RichieNextel305
10-27-2014, 10:47 AM
He's been underwhelming in the regular season, for sure. I expected him to start the season pretty hot following his play in the playoffs last year. He's proven he can play here and be successful. He was good in the playoffs. I just don't understand for the life of me why he is struggling so terribly in the regular season with us. It's baffling.

He needs to step it up big time. He has the skill to score 70+ points in this league still. Hell, he was well on his way to that last year before his brainfart 19-game stint here. With all of that being said, I do think that as long as he's an NHL player, he'll be a Ranger (provided he doesn't have a 10-goal, 30-point season). He forced his way here and only here for family reasons, and I can't imagine him putting up much of a fight for extra dollars as a UFA. I liken it to what Shanahan did his last year here. He didn't want to play mind games with us. He wanted to be here, he had made enough money in his career and he was honest in wanting to just play here so he did. I think MSL will follow a similar path.

Still doesn't mean much unless this guy starts playing like the player he definitely can be.

AmericanJesus
10-27-2014, 10:50 AM
Seriously my patience is up with him. He really looks like he's been a product of superior line mates for the last few seasons because his 2-3 regular season goals since the trade (waht is it not, close to 30 games?) isn't going to cut it.

I don't know if product is the right word there, but your point stands and you're probably right. He can be a superstar when he plays with a superstar finisher and get the most out of them as well. Not everyone can do that, so there's value there still. Problem is, the closest thing we have to that is Nash, and Nash isn't the type of player that needs a great play maker and he's not a great play maker himself. The next step down from there would be Kreider and he's more of the same. Seems like MSL may be a square peg in a round hole here.

Our skill guys are too similar to him (MZA, Brassard). What he needs is a sniper to work with. And right now the only two players that may fit that bill are a 19 year old with Junior eligibility issues (Duclair) and a 21 year old getting his feet wet in the AHL because he was playing College hockey last year (Haggerty).

Future
10-27-2014, 10:53 AM
Seriously my patience is up with him. He really looks like he's been a product of superior line mates for the last few seasons because his 2-3 regular season goals since the trade (waht is it not, close to 30 games?) isn't going to cut it.
Superior line mates?

Wasn't he playing with Palat and Filpula or something last year?

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 10:54 AM
I don't know if product is the right word there, but your point stands and you're probably right. He can be a superstar when he plays with a superstar finisher and get the most out of them as well. Not everyone can do that, so there's value there still. Problem is, the closest thing we have to that is Nash, and Nash isn't the type of player that needs a great play maker and he's not a great play maker himself. The next step down from there would be Kreider and he's more of the same. Seems like MSL may be a square peg in a round hole here.

Our skill guys are too similar to him (MZA, Brassard). What he needs is a sniper to work with. And right now the only two players that may fit that bill are a 19 year old with Junior eligibility issues (Duclair) and a 21 year old getting his feet wet in the AHL because he was playing College hockey last year (Haggerty).

I wouldn't even say sniper, necessarily, as much as shooter. A guy who thinks shoot first. Corey Perry, Jeff Carter, Radim Vrbata, Jaden Schwartz, Mike Cammalleri, etc.

The problem I see is just a lack of confidence in most of our forwards when it comes to wanting the puck. Everyone wants to be the guy who dishes it to the guy who scores. No one wants to be the guy who scores, for some reason. It's always one too many passes.

The two closest players who do think shoot, like you said, are Duclair and Nash.

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 10:55 AM
Superior line mates?

Wasn't he playing with Palat and Filpula or something last year?

Johnson and Palat, I believe. Not superstars, but still offensively gifted/skilled players.

Pete
10-27-2014, 10:55 AM
Superior line mates?

Wasn't he playing with Palat and Filpula or something last year?

And that guy Stamkos for the last 4 or so years...?

And FYI, the only guy on our team with more points that Filpula and Palat is Nash.

Future
10-27-2014, 11:02 AM
And that guy Stamkos for the last 4 or so years...?

And FYI, the only guy on our team with more points that Filpula and Palat is Nash.
I think you could easily make the argument that they're points are inflated by playing with MSL, and now Stamkos, as much as you could make it the other way.

Future
10-27-2014, 11:03 AM
And that guy Stamkos for the last 4 or so years...?

And FYI, the only guy on our team with more points that Filpula and Palat is Nash.
He played last year without Stamkos and was still scoring...

I think you could easily make the argument that their points are inflated by playing with MSL, and now Stamkos, as much as you could make it the other way.

Pete
10-27-2014, 11:04 AM
He played last year without Stamkos and was still scoring...

I think you could easily make the argument that their points are inflated by playing with MSL, and now Stamkos, as much as you could make it the other way.
Obviously you can't, since no one here has that their points inflated from playing with MSL, and MSL hasn't been good here, and right now Stamkos has 6 goals in 9 games.

CreaseCrusader91
10-27-2014, 12:01 PM
He has to start scoring, but let's be fair and understand that he started the season out of position. Let's see where he stands after he's played 10 or so games on the wing.

I hope he starts shooting more, because it seems he is a bit hesitant right now.

For comparison to last season MSL is currently

- 0.10 P/GP
- 0.24 G/GP
+ 0.15 A/GP

So in theory that is part regression that could be attributed to age and part regression on playing of position.

Things could be worse, but let's see what happens going forward while at wing.

Pete
10-27-2014, 12:43 PM
I think I'm being fair. Guy has 3 goals in about 30 games as a Ranger. That's not good enough, no matter what the excuse is.

RichieNextel305
10-27-2014, 01:18 PM
I think just 2, no? He had 1 last year, 1 this year. Either way, his regular season struggles in New York are a little weird. I can't put my finger on it. In the playoffs, he looked like Marty St. Louis. In his regular season tenure as a Ranger, he looks like....not Marty St. Louis. It's weird.

CreaseCrusader91
10-27-2014, 01:21 PM
I think I'm being fair. Guy has 3 goals in about 30 games as a Ranger. That's not good enough, no matter what the excuse is.
I'm talking just this season. And I dont think saying that he has been playing out position is an excuse.

Pete
10-27-2014, 01:25 PM
I'm talking just this season. And I dont think saying that he has been playing out position is an excuse.

If he came here on fire last season, and struggled early this season, I'd hear you. But he was terrible in the regular season last year, and terrible this year, and he's played with almost every forward on the roster. So now, the change of position does become an excuse, and a poor one, because he's still getting assists. It's the goal scoring that's the problem, and it's a big one.

This isn't a guy like Nash (we say we only care about goals), where we can say the assists are good enough. We got him to set up goals as well as score them. He hasn't scored enough and I think he would tell anyone the same.

cousin
10-27-2014, 02:01 PM
Hope he gets going. Have yet to see the MSL of days gone by. Gets knocked down too easy as well. But its still early he could get on a roll at any time.

Myusername
10-27-2014, 02:09 PM
He wasn't that great in the playoffs either... just ok considering what he's done there in the past.

Linemates might have played a factor, but I think it's something else. He's been too good for too long to say that he is a product of his linemates, especially since he was outscoring all of them by a decent amount last season before getting traded. I think good 'ole regression has more to do with it... he's just not as explosive as he once was. He's slowed down to the point that he can't break away from D as easily as he used to before. His shot is also not what it used to be.

Even still, 2-3 goals in 30 games is pretty dreaful. He's snakebitten too which doesn't help things

DrSutton
10-27-2014, 02:30 PM
I'd give him the 2 years for sure. More years and he probably takes less money per. He physically able to handle it. Pipe dream scenario is that if Tampa can't re-sign Stamkos (however unlikely), maybe having MSL here makes us a (more) attractive destination for him.

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 02:33 PM
Great as it'd be to sign him, he's not a UFA until the summer of 2016 (for 2016-17), so you'd need two years on MSL, or year-by-year just to make sure you had him on the roster by the time Stamkos became available, which is highly unlikely.

AmericanJesus
10-27-2014, 02:39 PM
The most likely reason that MSL isn't producing at the pace he once did is because he's old. That's not to say he's done, just that when you get a player at 39, the safe bet is their production will decrease. He played for one organization for a lot of years. Changing that up probably takes a toll as well.

DrSutton
10-27-2014, 02:41 PM
Great as it'd be to sign him, he's not a UFA until the summer of 2016 (for 2016-17), so you'd need two years on MSL, or year-by-year just to make sure you had him on the roster by the time Stamkos became available, which is highly unlikely.

Well yeah I'd give him the 2 years anyways, irregardless of any sort of unlikely Stamkos UFA signing. I'm just saying it's another tick in the "plus" column, even if it's the least important of pluses. He can play till 42 and still be effective.

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 02:43 PM
The most likely reason that MSL isn't producing at the pace he once did is because he's old. That's not to say he's done, just that when you get a player at 39, the safe bet is their production will decrease. He played for one organization for a lot of years. Changing that up probably takes a toll as well.

I mean, I guess, but you tend to see the decline in players at that age more than we're seeing it with MSL. He doesn't look noticeably different than the player he was with Tampa. His skating is still there, his battle level is still high, his ice time hasn't dropped precipitously, etc. He's getting chances, too. He has the puck. He has opportunities to make plays. I think the biggest difference, as we discussed briefly earlier today, is the lack of shoot-first players to play with. There are really only two on the entire roster, and one doesn't seem to need him.

Karan
10-27-2014, 02:56 PM
Seriously my patience is up with him. He really looks like he's been a product of superior line mates for the last few seasons because his 2-3 regular season goals since the trade (waht is it not, close to 30 games?) isn't going to cut it.

As Richie mentioned I don't know how this guy was able to turn it off in the playoffs but can't seem to maintain that same level of intensity in the regular reason.

Phil in Absentia
10-27-2014, 04:07 PM
Am I happy with one goal? No. But am I overly critical of myself because of that? No, St. Louis asked and answered. I feel like Im around the puck and making plays.

I know that Ive scored goals along the way in my career, sometimes more in a couple of seasons than in others, but Ive always considered myself a playmaker first. You can play well without scoring and you can score even if you dont play well.

Its important for me to analyze myself correctly on how I play, not on whether I score. Ive been around the puck, and have been around the net with chances, said St. Louis, who jammed one in against San Jose on Oct. 19 for his 371st career goal to accompany his 616 assists. Im going through a little bit of a rough time finishing, but that doesnt make me feel bad about my game.

In his final four seasons in Tampa Bay, St. Louis was on the ice with Steven Stamkos as his center for nearly 70 percent of his even-strength minutes. In New York, St. Louis has bounced all over the lineup. He hasnt shared even 50 percent of his even-strength time with even one teammate through the first eight games.

Its different, St. Louis acknowledged. Ideally, you want to find linemates to work with consistently, but you have to expect there will be changes during the season because guys get hurt and then it becomes a day-to-day thing.

You have to be able to adjust.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/martin-st-louis-explains-why-hes-calm-about-1-goal-start/

SaveByRichter35
10-27-2014, 06:58 PM
I think I'm being fair. Guy has 3 goals in about 30 games as a Ranger. That's not good enough, no matter what the excuse is.

3 in about 30 with us, 5 in one game against us last season. :palm:

Morphinity
10-27-2014, 07:01 PM
For the right price, sure! Get him on a Jagr-like deal and we're cool!

Dunny
10-27-2014, 07:04 PM
Yeah! Bring Vinny too! Country Club is back!

Keirik
10-27-2014, 10:42 PM
I'm not overly thrilled with his play, but why are we ignoring the goals and points he put up in the playoffs? If we are going to focus on production, then focus on ALL of his production, no? He'll be fine.

Pete
10-27-2014, 11:06 PM
He wasn't great in the playoffs, either. Especially the final.

Keirik
10-28-2014, 01:07 AM
Well, he wasn't lights out, but he certainly wasn't as bad as some are making him sound. I know we want more, but he was tied for second on our team in points for the playoffs. It's not as if he was horrid. At some point we have to keep in mind that he is one of the oldest players in the NHL. He also had 8 goals in the playoffs and not that many other people had more. Kind of says something in my mind. He'll be fine.

Pete
10-28-2014, 07:17 AM
You can keep repeating he'll be fine, but it's almost half a regular season with 2 goals. That's...a lot.

Keirik
10-28-2014, 11:01 AM
You can keep repeating he'll be fine, but it's almost half a regular season with 2 goals. That's...a lot.

last night was the first time i said he'll be fine. Not repeating anything. Just giving my opinion about a guy who is a future Hall of Famer. Then again, i'm not expecting him to carry the team at 39 years old. He's played 53 games as a Ranger. He has 29 points and 10 goals. It's not THAT horrid.

Pete
10-28-2014, 11:29 AM
last night was the first time i said he'll be fine. Not repeating anything. Just giving my opinion about a guy who is a future Hall of Famer. Then again, i'm not expecting him to carry the team at 39 years old. He's played 53 games as a Ranger. He has 29 points and 10 goals. It's not THAT horrid.

Sorry, that came out wrong.

I meant we all said last year he'd be fine. And this year he's still not fine. And it's almost half a season.

It doesn't really matter that he's a future hall of famer. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Keirik
10-28-2014, 10:00 PM
Sorry, that came out wrong.

I meant we all said last year he'd be fine. And this year he's still not fine. And it's almost half a season.

It doesn't really matter that he's a future hall of famer. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Well, to me, I'm not sure what disregarding his point total in uniform to only focus on his point total in the regular season has to do with everything as well. It's like the reverse Gaborik argument. Anyway, his credentials to me have a bearing because we all know he has the abilities and resume to give him the benefit of the doubt for a little longer. Besides, while he wasn't a huge force, he did perform pretty well in the playoffs in my mind considering so many guys on our team were allergic to putting the puck in the net regularly.

Pete
10-28-2014, 10:06 PM
He's half the player he was in Tampa. He's been a disappointment.

Keirik
10-28-2014, 10:24 PM
He's half the player he was in Tampa. He's been a disappointment.

Well, I don't necessarily disagree with him being half of what he was with another organization that has a different base of players/style/etc. I consider him one of the reasons we got where we got last year so from that aspect, he's not a disappointment to me. Also, I still like the fact that getting him meant we didn't retain the very inflated cap demands of Callahan and we got someone who is just as much of a leader and more proven. Honestly, we can keep MSL after this year for a lot less with a lower cap hit (most likely) and have cap room left over for other pieces that having a Cally until like 2020 wouldn't have allowed for.

Pete
10-28-2014, 10:25 PM
Well, I don't necessarily disagree with him being half of what he was with another organization that has a different base of players/style/etc. I consider him one of the reasons we got where we got last year so from that aspect, he's not a disappointment to me. Also, I still like the fact that getting him meant we didn't retain the very inflated cap demands of Callahan and we got someone who is just as much of a leader and more proven. Honestly, we can keep MSL after this year for a lot less with a lower cap hit (most likely) and have cap room left over for other pieces that having a Cally until like 2020 wouldn't have allowed for.

That's true. Can't argue that.

Bretzky
10-28-2014, 11:33 PM
I just want him to stay long enough to lure Stamkos here. ^_^

momentum
10-31-2014, 10:16 AM
I think I'm being fair. Guy has 3 goals in about 30 games as a Ranger. That's not good enough, no matter what the excuse is.THIS, i love marty though and i'd sign him for a cheap but bonus laden contract. but he has to start producing more that's for sure. I believe he still has it in him.