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View Full Version : Recalled/Assigned: Dylan McIlrath, Marek Hrivik, Oscar Lindberg and Ryan Haggerty Assigned to HFD



Phil in Absentia
10-06-2014, 10:54 AM
:tweet: @AGrossRecord: McIlrath Hrivik Lindberg and Haggerty have been assigned to Hartford (AHL) per #NYJvsSD

AmericanJesus
10-06-2014, 10:54 AM
:tweet: Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord McIlrath Hrivik Lindberg and Haggerty have been assigned to Hartford (AHL) per #NYJvsSD

G1000
10-06-2014, 10:58 AM
As I said in the TC thread - this makes sense. Let them lead the Pack and enjoy first call-up status.

FleshistheFever
10-06-2014, 10:59 AM
Are we still expecting McIlrath to make an impact? Anyone else on the boat to ship him out and bring in someone with a higher ceiling?

Thump23
10-06-2014, 10:59 AM
As I said in the TC thread - this makes sense. Let them lead the Pack and enjoy first call-up status.

I have a feeling McIlrath will be here for good at some point this season.

NYR2711
10-06-2014, 11:12 AM
I was more impressed with Haggerty than both Miller and Hayes this preseason. Im surprised he didn't make the team.

phillyb™
10-06-2014, 11:13 AM
I was more impressed with Haggerty than both Miller and Hayes this preseason. Im surprised he didn't make the team.

i liked haggerty too.
let him develop in the a for a bit. i wouldn't be surprised if we see him later in the season for a few stints.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 11:13 AM
I was more impressed with Haggerty than both Miller and Hayes this preseason. Im surprised he didn't make the team.

Hayes can play center, makes sense they'd keep him over Haggerty for the time being.

Mike
10-06-2014, 11:16 AM
I was more impressed with Haggerty than both Miller and Hayes this preseason. Im surprised he didn't make the team.

His overall game is not well rounded. He wouldn't see much ice here.

Pete
10-06-2014, 11:16 AM
Are we still expecting McIlrath to make an impact? Anyone else on the boat to ship him out and bring in someone with a higher ceiling?

Why would anyone trade anything other than a mid-round pick? Unless you package him...In which case he would not be the centerpiece.

NYR2711
10-06-2014, 11:18 AM
Why would anyone trade anything other than a mid-round pick? Unless you package him...In which case he would not be the centerpiece.

This is exactly what I think we will see happen at the deadline. I think he is part of a package for someone.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 11:19 AM
His overall game is not well rounded. He wouldn't see much ice here.

I thought Hayes had a better camp than Haggerty. No shot at Haggerty because I think he can play in the NHL, but Hayes at his size would be a much welcomed addition to the lineup come playoffs.

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 11:21 AM
Are we still expecting McIlrath to make an impact? Anyone else on the boat to ship him out and bring in someone with a higher ceiling?

The kid is 22 and has played two years of pro, one of which was hampered by injuries. We've been spoiled with guys developing quickly like McDonagh and Staal but a lot of players take time to get NHL-ready, especially defensemen. Next year is make or break, IMO, but I don't think the fans or the organization should give up yet. Unless you want him to pull a Del Zotto.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 11:23 AM
I don't know why anyone would want to give up on McIlrath just yet. He's improved every year he's been here. If he's a regular two years from now does it really matter if he made it at 22 or 23?

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 11:23 AM
As for Haggerty getting sent down, I think it makes a lot of sense as well. Give him playing time on the top 2 lines in Hartford and let him develop his defensive game and some scoring consistency. He didn't show a lot once the opponents had more NHL-level talent. It's also good to see that Lindberg could cover for D. Moore if anything were to happen.

FleshistheFever
10-06-2014, 11:29 AM
Either way, I think we're wasting our time with this McIlrath. The organization has given him numerous chances to succeed. Our expectations of him never seem to surface. Personally, from what I've seen and outside his size, he barely shows glimpses of potential NHL material. Especially going forward - his lack of speed would kill us and his game doesnt fit our current style of play.

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 11:30 AM
Either way, I think we're wasting our time with this McIlrath. The organization has given him numerous chances to succeed. Our expectations of him never seem to surface. Personally, from what I've seen and outside his size, he barely shows glimpses of potential NHL material. Especially going forward - his lack of speed would kill us and his game doesnt fit our current style of play.

I actually thought he played well in preseason against decent NHL competition. Poised with the puck and making smart plays. Another healthy year of AHL hockey and he takes over for Kevin Klein next season as a 3rd pairing guy. Then works his way up to become a 2nd pairing guy after Boyle leaves.

G1000
10-06-2014, 11:37 AM
Are we still expecting McIlrath to make an impact? Anyone else on the boat to ship him out and bring in someone with a higher ceiling?

Dude isn't going to be Shea Weber reincarnate, but yah, he can still be an impact NHLer.

It's hard to forget that he's only 22.

G1000
10-06-2014, 11:38 AM
His overall game is not well rounded. He wouldn't see much ice here.

Am I wrong to think that Haggerty needs to learn the NHL game a bit more? Yeah, he scored some great goals - but I think most NHL defenders would have absolutely crushed him before he got those shots off.

Morphinity
10-06-2014, 11:39 AM
Dude isn't going to be Shea Weber reincarnate, but yah, he can still be an impact NHLer.

It's hard to forget that he's only 22.

"Impact" in the way Steve Eminger is/was an impact NHL'er?

FleshistheFever
10-06-2014, 11:39 AM
I actually thought he played well in preseason against decent NHL competition. Poised with the puck and making smart plays. Another healthy year of AHL hockey and he takes over for Kevin Klein next season as a 3rd pairing guy. Then works his way up to become a 2nd pairing guy after Boyle leaves.

I know we all had high expectations. I also watched every preseason game and I was not impressed. Shop his ass. We have the best negotiator in the NHL, Mr. Glen Sather. Those feet are molasses and the skill set is nothing to get excited about. We gave it a whirl. Its time to move on. Most of the guys his size come with a special skill set, he comes with only size and A LOT to work on. He has a very, very average hockey IQ as well.

Pete
10-06-2014, 11:40 AM
"Impact" in the way Steve Eminger is/was an impact NHL'er?

Yea, it's hard to be impact when it looks (right now) like your ceiling is a 5/6/7 D.

Dunny
10-06-2014, 11:52 AM
Gawd Mueller is depressing.

G1000
10-06-2014, 11:59 AM
Yea, it's hard to be impact when it looks (right now) like your ceiling is a 5/6/7 D.

Really looking at that draft is interesting. That draft was touted as one of the better defensive classes you'd see in a while, and yet almost all of the defenders just plummeted down the list.

Funny enough, there are exactly three defenders who have made any sort of impact in the NHL thus far in that draft:

Fowler, who may finally be figuring out how to defend and who has undeniably been a great pick for Anaheim
Erik Gudbranson, who has been less than stellar
Justin Faulk, who fell behind the following players: McIlrath, Brandon Gormley, Derek Forbort, Jarred Tinordi, Mark Pysyk, Alex Petrovic

The only defenders below Faulk to have even broken into the NHL to my knowledge are:

Martin Marincin
Radko Gudas
Dalton Prout (?)

Either the verdict is still out on this draft (and thus, we need to give it at least another year) or we've just got this array of bust-caliber players among the top defenders, and PuckHead gets his vindication.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 12:01 PM
"Impact" in the way Steve Eminger is/was an impact NHL'er?

Even if their skill level is even, McIlrath's size and attitude alone will allow him to have a much bigger impact on a game than Eminger ever could/would.

Slobberknocker
10-06-2014, 12:02 PM
I actually thought he played well in preseason against decent NHL competition. Poised with the puck and making smart plays. Another healthy year of AHL hockey and he takes over for Kevin Klein next season as a 3rd pairing guy. Then works his way up to become a 2nd pairing guy after Boyle leaves.

I agree on the seasoning part. Only 22. Dmen take more time to develop and he was hampered by injuries. nothing wrong with taking some time here. I dont know if he has a high enough ceiling to be a 2 but hell i think if you look at it objectively he is progressing and willing to put in the effort.

Future
10-06-2014, 12:04 PM
The kid is 22 and has played two years of pro, one of which was hampered by injuries. We've been spoiled with guys developing quickly like McDonagh and Staal but a lot of players take time to get NHL-ready, especially defensemen. Next year is make or break, IMO, but I don't think the fans or the organization should give up yet. Unless you want him to pull a Del Zotto.
Yep. Agree completely.

His age seems to be quickly ignored. I bet he'd actually be on the final roster for a lot of teams, but considering our blueline depth and the fact that we're contenders, there's no need to push a young guy into the roster.

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:27 PM
His age isn't being ignored by anyone.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-06-2014, 12:28 PM
Apparently his play/skill is though.

Future
10-06-2014, 12:30 PM
His age isn't being ignored by anyone.
I think you could say that anyone who thinks he's a bust is doing exactly that.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-06-2014, 12:31 PM
Or maybe he's just not that good

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:32 PM
I think you could say that anyone who thinks he's a bust is doing exactly that.

Or maybe they're looking at his draft position, lack of progress, and inability to stay healthy.

FleshistheFever
10-06-2014, 12:33 PM
Or maybe he's just not that good

Yep

Thump23
10-06-2014, 12:36 PM
Or maybe they're looking at his draft position, lack of progress, and inability to stay healthy.

Evaluating him on his draft position at this point isn't beneficial. What's done is done, we can't change where he was selected. Outside of beating out Moore, where was he really going to play this year? True, he hasn't forced his way on to the roster to start the season but he has progressed. He could still very much be an asset.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-06-2014, 12:38 PM
So we can't evaluate him on draft position to prove he's a bust? Can same be said for Hugh Jessiman, Pavel Brendl, etc?

Vodka Drunkenski
10-06-2014, 12:39 PM
Let's throw Lundmark and Malhotra into that mix

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:40 PM
Evaluating him on his draft position at this point isn't beneficial. What's done is done, we can't change where he was selected. Outside of beating out Moore, where was he really going to play this year? True, he hasn't forced his way on to the roster to start the season but he has progressed. He could still very much be an asset.

I'm evaluating him based on what he is - not NHL ready.

I don't think anyone can say what he "could" be with any accuracy at all. So I look at him for what he is. A young player that isn't ready and should go back to the AHL.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 12:42 PM
So we can't evaluate him on draft position to prove he's a bust? Can same be said for Hugh Jessiman, Pavel Brendl, etc?

You can do whatever you want and you could probably make a pretty compelling case for calling him a bust. I just think it's too soon for that, personally.

He wasn't cracking the top 6. Everyone knew the defense was solidified before camp even started. He didn't look awful in the games he played this preseason, he's only 22 and he's mean as fuck. I don't think at this point it would be a stretch to say he can be a useful 2nd pairing guy. If that makes him a bust, so be it but it. But isn't a defenseman like that the perfect remedy to teams like LA and Boston come playoff time?


I'm evaluating him based on what he is - not NHL ready.

I don't think anyone can say what he "could" be with any accuracy at all. So I look at him for what he is. A young player that isn't ready and should go back to the AHL.

That fair. I still say you see him here full time at some point this season. I want to give guys like him and Hayes every possible chance to succeed, provided they can play at this level, because they give the team some desperately needed size.

Vodka Drunkenski
10-06-2014, 12:45 PM
Dale Purinton was tough too. I just don't see him as a 2nd pair guy. He hasn't shown me anything to be there and to me, that's a waste of a high pick. At least Duclair has shown tons of flash, McIlrath, nothing.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 12:46 PM
Dale Purinton was tough too. I just don't see him as a 2nd pair guy. He hasn't shown me anything to be there and to me, that's a waste of a high pick. At least Duclair has shown tons of flash, McIlrath, nothing.

I mean... I think you're reaching a bit with the Purinton comparison, but ok.

Future
10-06-2014, 12:46 PM
Or maybe they're looking at his draft position, lack of progress, and inability to stay healthy.
Draft position is irrelevant at this point, age isn't. He's still growing physically. The health factor is fair I guess but a bit harsh on a kid who plays his style. In terms of progress...there's no much that's goign to be noticeable until he makes it to the big club. He's gotten better over his two years in the AHL.

Not that McIlrath necessarily has the same ceiling, but when Zdeno Chara got regular time in the NHL, he was terrible. I think he was a -27 both of his first two years in the league, at age 22 and 23. NYI let him go and now here we are...he'll probably go to the HoF.

Mike
10-06-2014, 12:47 PM
Am I wrong to think that Haggerty needs to learn the NHL game a bit more? Yeah, he scored some great goals - but I think most NHL defenders would have absolutely crushed him before he got those shots off.

No, you're not wrong. That's what I just said. Lol.

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:47 PM
You can do whatever you want and you could probably make a pretty compelling case for calling him a bust. I just think it's too soon for that, personally.

He wasn't cracking the top 6. Everyone knew the defense was solidified before camp even started. He didn't look awful in the games he played this preseason, he's only 22 and he's mean as fuck. I don't think at this point it would be a stretch to say he can be a useful 2nd pairing guy. If that makes him a bust, so be it but it. But isn't a defenseman like that the perfect remedy to teams like LA and Boston come playoff time?



That fair. I still say you see him here full time at some point this season. I want to give guys like him and Hayes every possible chance to succeed, provided they can play at this level, because they give the team some desperately needed size.

I just think it's very telling that a certain group of prospects was given every chance to earn a spot, and he wasn't in that group.

Ranger Lothbrok
10-06-2014, 12:47 PM
It's going to be VERY tough for any Rangers fan to admit that the pick has been anything more than a disappointment. He had been growing exponentially prior to the draft, and I believe I heard a stat at the time that no player had climbed further in the rankings that season than McIlrath. The belief at the time was that if that upward trajectory continued, he could end up being something very special.

Of course injuries are a factor in his development, and may be making it take longer than it would have naturally. After we took him, people kept pointing out that big defensemen take a while to develop, and that we were looking at a 4-5 year project, minimum. Even with the injuries, he's still very much on track for that projection. If he's here by the start of next season, he'll have developed exactly at the rate many anticipated.

All of this being said, for better or worse injuries ARE a part of any objective assessment of a player's value. Teams shy away from talented players in the free agency because they're "injury prone." Fans rage against signings because somebody is "made of glass." The fact that he's suffered these injuries needs to be taken in to account on both fronts: that it's slowed his development AND it's part of who he is as a player.

Rangers fans have been dying for the next Beukeboom since, well, Beukeboom was here. And with his size and snarl, and our tendency to get pushed around in recent years, many are desperate for him to make it if only to keep players out of Henrik's crease and to bash a few skulls. The problem, however, is that you don't burn a top-10 pick on THAT. Especially not when, miraculously, a guy who was projected to go top 3 falls in to your laps at #10. There's a reason Anaheim's GM was grinning ear to ear when he went up and took Fowler. He knew he got an absolute steal. The thing to do in that situation is count your blessings, make the smart choice, and move along. If you thought you already had that player in Del Zotto, great: trade him for a McIlrath type at some point.

This is why it's so tough for fans to admit that he's not who we all hoped he would be. We desperately want that toughness, and we desperately want that head-scratcher of a pick to be vindicated, especially in light of what we could have had in Cam Fowler. The problem is that you can't allow that sentiment to affect your honest evaluation. The injuries are NOT the only reason why he looks the way he looks right now. He's not a great skater, he doesn't have good hockey sense, and his passing and shooting are sloppy and sub-par. That's not solely a product of him being hurt...that's how he's developed. That's as far as he's come in 4 years.

The point is that it IS too soon to write him off and call the pick a bust, but any objective, detached look at his skill-set will tell you that he projects to be a third pairing journeyman defenseman with some snarl, and nothing more. That's what he's showing us RIGHT NOW, when he's completely healthy. That doesn't mean he's a failure as a player, that just means it was a waste of what was an utterly incredible fluke of an opportunity to draft an impact player at 10th overall. Take that sentiment out, and you see him for what he is.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 12:49 PM
I just think it's very telling that a certain group of prospects was given every chance to earn a spot, and he wasn't in that group.

Outside of Moore, who was he going to beat out for a spot? He made it to the last round of cuts and it's pointless having him here as the 7th defenseman.

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:51 PM
Draft position is irrelevant at this point, age isn't. He's still growing physically. The health factor is fair I guess but a bit harsh on a kid who plays his style. In terms of progress...there's no much that's goign to be noticeable until he makes it to the big club. He's gotten better over his two years in the AHL.

Not that McIlrath necessarily has the same ceiling, but when Zdeno Chara got regular time in the NHL, he was terrible. I think he was a -27 both of his first two years in the league, at age 22 and 23. NYI let him go and now here we are...he'll probably go to the HoF.

Draft slot isn't irrelevant when discussing of he's a bust, though. I have no intention of beating that dead horse, though. Its over and done with. I'm just saying that it's always going to be part of the discussion, and rightfully so, IMO.

I think we both know he isn't even close to Chara on any level.

Future
10-06-2014, 12:53 PM
Draft slot isn't irrelevant when discussing of he's a bust, though. I have no intention of beating that dead horse, though. Its over and done with. I'm just saying that it's always going to be part of the discussion, and rightfully so, IMO.

I think we both know he isn't even close to Chara on any level.
Maybe not in terms of ceiling, but he could come into the NHL now and suck and then turn into a Norris winner just like Chara, in theory. Chara could never skate, but he learned how to use his size so well it didn't matter. No real reason McIlrath can't do the same.

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:53 PM
Outside of Moore, who was he going to beat out for a spot? He made it to the last round of cuts and it's pointless having him here as the 7th defenseman.

Well could have beat out Moore or Hunwick. Why is it pointless to have him here as a 7th of he's NHL ready? He keeps showing he isn't. That's how we got here.

G1000
10-06-2014, 12:53 PM
I just think it's very telling that a certain group of prospects was given every chance to earn a spot, and he wasn't in that group.

To be fair here, we all know he was top6 or AHL this year. He wasn't beating Hunwick/Kostka/whatever for a 7th D spot simply because he wasn't eligible, and he apparently beat out Conor Allen - though not by much.

It is what it is. A 22 year old AHL first pairing guy isn't weird or out of the ordinary, you just like seeing your first round picks make the NHL by 21.

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:54 PM
Maybe not in terms of ceiling, but he could come into the NHL now and suck and then turn into a Norris winner just like Chara, in theory. Chara could never skate, but he learned how to use his size so well it didn't matter. No real reason McIlrath can't do the same.

In theory John Moore can win a Norris. I won't hold my breath. :)

Pete
10-06-2014, 12:55 PM
To be fair here, we all know he was top6 or AHL this year. He wasn't beating Hunwick/Kostka/whatever for a 7th D spot simply because he wasn't eligible, and he apparently beat out Conor Allen - though not by much.

It is what it is. A 22 year old AHL first pairing guy isn't weird or out of the ordinary, you just like seeing your first round picks make the NHL by 21.

Why isn't he eligible to be the 7th D?

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 12:59 PM
Why isn't he eligible to be the 7th D?

I think he's trying to say that keeping McIlrath as a 7th defenseman isn't the wisest choice. With the hockey he's missed due to injury (roughly 50 games in the past two seasons), it'd be better for his development to let him play top pairing minutes in the AHL than get a game here or there as a 7th defenseman.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 01:00 PM
Why isn't he eligible to be the 7th D?

Would you rather a 22 year old defenseman watch games in the press box or play 20 minutes a night in Hartford?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pete
10-06-2014, 01:03 PM
Would you rather a 22 year old defenseman watch games in the press box or play 20 minutes a night in Hartford?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think he's trying to say that keeping McIlrath as a 7th defenseman isn't the wisest choice. With the hockey he's missed due to injury (roughly 50 games in the past two seasons), it'd be better for his development to let him play top pairing minutes in the AHL than get a game here or there as a 7th defenseman.

I don't think you can have it both ways. If he is NHL ready, and he only missed the top 6 due to our D depth (which at this point I can really debate against), then he'd learn more here than the AHL. He's not 19. He'll be 23.

NHL ready is NHL ready.

He's just not NHL ready.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 01:25 PM
I don't think you can have it both ways. If he is NHL ready, and he only missed the top 6 due to our D depth (which at this point I can really debate against), then he'd learn more here than the AHL. He's not 19. He'll be 23.

NHL ready is NHL ready.

He's just not NHL ready.

How could he learn more here, not playing than playing 20 minutes a night in every possible scenario in Hartford? Not NHL ready and not good enough to crack this team's top 6 isn't really the same thing.

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 01:26 PM
I don't think you can have it both ways. If he is NHL ready, and he only missed the top 6 due to our D depth (which at this point I can really debate against), then he'd learn more here than the AHL. He's not 19. He'll be 23.

NHL ready is NHL ready.

He's just not NHL ready.

Most 7th defensemen in the league aren't NHL ready whether they're 19 or 25 or 35. I'm fine with McIlrath not being NHL ready or really better than anyone in our top-6. If we traded Klein, I'd be very happy with McIlrath slotting into that spot on the 3rd pairing and the penalty kill. At age 22, you can learn a lot and still adapt your game with lots of playing time. The AHL is there to teach young players the game. He wouldn't play if he was with our team and IMO Hunwick will get into maybe 15 games barring injury. Hunwick is 27 and is what he is. McIlrath is shaping into what he'll be for the rest of his career, but there's still room for his game to grow.

Pete
10-06-2014, 01:30 PM
How could he learn more here, not playing than playing 20 minutes a night in every possible scenario in Hartford? Not NHL ready and not good enough to crack this team's top 6 isn't really the same thing.

It is in this case. What's wrong with easing him in as a 7th? Nothing.

This team's top 6 isn't spectacular. Big drop off after top 4. You're telling me Klein and Moore can't be replaced? Especially Klein, who's making too much to be what he is on a cap/contract crunch team?

McI just isn't ready.

Kevin
10-06-2014, 01:33 PM
I know we all had high expectations. I also watched every preseason game and I was not impressed. Shop his ass. We have the best negotiator in the NHL, Mr. Glen Sather. Those feet are molasses and the skill set is nothing to get excited about. We gave it a whirl. Its time to move on. Most of the guys his size come with a special skill set, he comes with only size and A LOT to work on. He has a very, very average hockey IQ as well.

I'm not quite sure why we would be moving on with him. For one, he has no value at all...we'd be just taking back someone else's garbage at this point. He might not be what anyone wanted but he still serves a purpose in the AHL and may still make the team as a 5/6/7 d-man. Are you watching a lot of Hartford games? I'm not quite how to judge his hockey IQ with such a small sample size. He is big, strong, and plays mean. I think we can still keep him around because, at this point, the ship has sailed on having him bring anything of value back in return.

Thump23
10-06-2014, 01:34 PM
It is in this case. What's wrong with easing him in as a 7th? Nothing.

This team's top 6 isn't spectacular. Big drop off after top 4. You're telling me Klein and Moore can't be replaced? Especially Klein, who's making too much to be what he is on a cap/contract crunch team?

McI just isn't ready.

I think the case can be made for McI replacing Moore, which obviously he didn't do. Moore has a bit more offensive upside I'm guessing? But you are correct in regards to McIlrath not forcing his way onto the roster, it's tough to argue otherwise. I still think he's close and will be here soon.

But as far as easing him in as 7th I disagree. Let him go play big minutes every night in the AHL where he can continue to work with Buekeboom and get more attention than he would with Samuelson.

Mike
10-06-2014, 02:21 PM
It is in this case. What's wrong with easing him in as a 7th? Nothing.

This team's top 6 isn't spectacular. Big drop off after top 4. You're telling me Klein and Moore can't be replaced? Especially Klein, who's making too much to be what he is on a cap/contract crunch team?

McI just isn't ready.

Agreed. People often forget the practice factor as well. If he was ready for the next step, he'd be up here practicing with big boys every day. That would be, as you stated, the "ease in"

The Dude
10-06-2014, 02:24 PM
Either way, I think we're wasting our time with this McIlrath. The organization has given him numerous chances to succeed. Our expectations of him never seem to surface. Personally, from what I've seen and outside his size, he barely shows glimpses of potential NHL material. Especially going forward - his lack of speed would kill us and his game doesnt fit our current style of play.

May i ask what "numerous chances" they have given this guy? They are so deep at the NHL level, they cant squeeze him into a lineup.

Im waiting for the eventual Moore flop/benching/ trade, for Mcllrath to get his chance. Oh add in the eventual Staal injury as well as Boyles eventual break down. Heck eveyone hates Klein too, so maybe he is packaged for a need later in the season.

Oddly, i think Mcllraths best camp was his first, where he hit smart, and actually showed some offensive skill by keeping the puck in the offensive zone, and a cannon for a shot.

G1000
10-06-2014, 02:25 PM
You have to think we see a lot of him this year. He's got first call-up status if anything, and if he sticks, awesome.

My two biggest questions with him are basically this:

1 - Has his lack of progression been linked to anything else but his lack of health? If yes, likely problem. If no, I don't think I'm super worried. If I recall, McIlrath was drafted so highly (and thought of highly enough that the Stars and Oilers wanted him right after us) because he had incredible physical skills, but also because he is considered to be a rather smart hockey player.

2 - I wonder if he's the "Torts" defender type that just doesn't work in a Vigneault system. I think the big bruiser probably works better in a choking system than in the possession based system we run.

I suppose we'll get answers this year.

RichieNextel305
10-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Disappointed to see Haggerty sent down, but I 100% understand it. One way or the other, someone (or plural) was going to not make the team that some thought should, and that is strictly because a lot of our young guys had good camps. So that's a positive.

Looking forward to seeing what Duclair could do.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Draft position is irrelevant at this point, age isn't. He's still growing physically. The health factor is fair I guess but a bit harsh on a kid who plays his style. In terms of progress...there's no much that's goign to be noticeable until he makes it to the big club. He's gotten better over his two years in the AHL.

Not that McIlrath necessarily has the same ceiling, but when Zdeno Chara got regular time in the NHL, he was terrible. I think he was a -27 both of his first two years in the league, at age 22 and 23. NYI let him go and now here we are...he'll probably go to the HoF.

Few notes on Mcilrath.
His age is 22, but this is his 5th season since being drafted. We are heading near the end of the comfort window of a player developing.

Also, can't really compare him to Chara.
Those came from Mcilrath being 6'4 and 212lbs during draft day. Since then he's put on a 8lbs.
He's closer to John Moore size then Chara.

Chara was drafted in 96, in 97-98 he played 25 games for the Islanders. The following season he played 59 games.
To sum it up, the 5 years since Chara's draft year, he played in 231 NHL games.
That's a lot of ground for Mcilrath to make up this season ;)

The Dude
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Pete brings a good point though. Why not ease him in starting as the 7th guy?

He will practice and learn with some solid NHL vets to show him the ropes.

Maybe theres nothing to learn in the A, as it seems hes more or less a target to fight down there, where as here, he would be learning the game and improving in areas, rather than being the Packs policeman. I dont see how the 7th spot cpuld really hurt Mcllrath. I do think we will see him here in some role this season.

I myself think hes not ready for the bust label yet.

Phil in Absentia
10-06-2014, 02:46 PM
Few notes on Mcilrath.
His age is 22, but this is his 5th season since being drafted. We are heading near the end of the comfort window of a player developing.

Also, can't really compare him to Chara.
Those came from Mcilrath being 6'4 and 212lbs during draft day. Since then he's put on a 8lbs.
He's closer to John Moore size then Chara.

Chara was drafted in 96, in 97-98 he played 25 games for the Islanders. The following season he played 59 games.
To sum it up, the 5 years since Chara's draft year, he played in 231 NHL games.
That's a lot of ground for Mcilrath to make up this season ;)

This being his 5th season is interesting, because I believe Sanguinetti was dealt after his 5th year (and failure to make the team) as well.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 02:49 PM
This being his 5th season is interesting, because I believe Sanguinetti was dealt after his 5th year (and failure to make the team) as well.

I personally saw enough difference between his first preseason game this year, and his second...to not lose all hope.
Can't forget the "x" factors with this kid.

People always mention size and toughness.
But remember, this kid was way HIGH quality character in regards to work ethic, leadership, blah, blah, blah.

Slobberknocker
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
i don't think our third line pairing gets enough credit here to be honest.

it's obvious the coaches think mcilrath will get more benefitting in the AHL this year, rather than being a 7th. nothing wrong with that at age 22, when all i ever read on these boards is that dmen take more time to develop and rushing del zotto up is partially what killed him.

Phil in Absentia
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
I personally saw enough difference between his first preseason game this year, and his second...to not lose all hope.
Can't forget the "x" factors with this kid.

People always mention size and toughness.
But remember, this kid was way HIGH quality character in regards to work ethic, leadership, blah, blah, blah.

Right, which is what had people mentioning Derian Hatcher as a comparable.

I wouldn't bail on him either. I've seen noticeable improvements over the last two training camps/preseasons that he's probably still worth holding onto. I actually think what Alex mentioned earlier is a hopeful path for him. Rangers move Klein (cap, plus he makes too much for too little on our third pairing) maybe at the deadline or during the draft, paving way for McIlrath as third-pairing D with Boyle having one year left. Gives McIlrath every chance to step in and take it to move up into a second pairing role by his second NHL season.

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 02:56 PM
You have to think we see a lot of him this year. He's got first call-up status if anything, and if he sticks, awesome.

My two biggest questions with him are basically this:

1 - Has his lack of progression been linked to anything else but his lack of health? If yes, likely problem. If no, I don't think I'm super worried. If I recall, McIlrath was drafted so highly (and thought of highly enough that the Stars and Oilers wanted him right after us) because he had incredible physical skills, but also because he is considered to be a rather smart hockey player.

2 - I wonder if he's the "Torts" defender type that just doesn't work in a Vigneault system. I think the big bruiser probably works better in a choking system than in the possession based system we run.

I suppose we'll get answers this year.

Who was the last 'big' defenseman to play for Vancouver when AV was head coach? They sure didn't have a lot. Even the physical guys had decent mobility and puck transition games.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 02:56 PM
I think a certain NCAA defenseman has leap frogged Mcilrath for future top 4 minutes (by he time Boyle is gone)

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 02:58 PM
I think a certain NCAA defenseman has leap frogged Mcilrath for future top 4 minutes (by he time Boyle is gone)

They tried to sign Skjei and make him turn pro now. He's a guy I'm excited to see. Our best defense prospect for sure IMO.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 03:23 PM
They tried to sign Skjei and make him turn pro now. He's a guy I'm excited to see. Our best defense prospect for sure IMO.

I'd see him turning prop after this college season, and making the jump to the AHL this year for end of season and playoffs.
Next season (Boyle's second) he could get a full year in the AHL.

But as of now, I see him as a much more viable option to get top 4 minutes if we are looking from within.

momentum
10-06-2014, 03:33 PM
This is exactly what I think we will see happen at the deadline. I think he is part of a package for someone.

Agreed

momentum
10-06-2014, 03:35 PM
Disappointed to see Haggerty sent down, but I 100% understand it. One way or the other, someone (or plural) was going to not make the team that some thought should, and that is strictly because a lot of our young guys had good camps. So that's a positive.

Looking forward to seeing what Duclair could do.Agreed, really was hoping Haggerty would make it, but like you said, everyone couldn't make it.

momentum
10-06-2014, 03:37 PM
It's going to be VERY tough for any Rangers fan to admit that the pick has been anything more than a disappointment. He had been growing exponentially prior to the draft, and I believe I heard a stat at the time that no player had climbed further in the rankings that season than McIlrath. The belief at the time was that if that upward trajectory continued, he could end up being something very special.

Of course injuries are a factor in his development, and may be making it take longer than it would have naturally. After we took him, people kept pointing out that big defensemen take a while to develop, and that we were looking at a 4-5 year project, minimum. Even with the injuries, he's still very much on track for that projection. If he's here by the start of next season, he'll have developed exactly at the rate many anticipated.

All of this being said, for better or worse injuries ARE a part of any objective assessment of a player's value. Teams shy away from talented players in the free agency because they're "injury prone." Fans rage against signings because somebody is "made of glass." The fact that he's suffered these injuries needs to be taken in to account on both fronts: that it's slowed his development AND it's part of who he is as a player.

Rangers fans have been dying for the next Beukeboom since, well, Beukeboom was here. And with his size and snarl, and our tendency to get pushed around in recent years, many are desperate for him to make it if only to keep players out of Henrik's crease and to bash a few skulls. The problem, however, is that you don't burn a top-10 pick on THAT. Especially not when, miraculously, a guy who was projected to go top 3 falls in to your laps at #10. There's a reason Anaheim's GM was grinning ear to ear when he went up and took Fowler. He knew he got an absolute steal. The thing to do in that situation is count your blessings, make the smart choice, and move along. If you thought you already had that player in Del Zotto, great: trade him for a McIlrath type at some point.

This is why it's so tough for fans to admit that he's not who we all hoped he would be. We desperately want that toughness, and we desperately want that head-scratcher of a pick to be vindicated, especially in light of what we could have had in Cam Fowler. The problem is that you can't allow that sentiment to affect your honest evaluation. The injuries are NOT the only reason why he looks the way he looks right now. He's not a great skater, he doesn't have good hockey sense, and his passing and shooting are sloppy and sub-par. That's not solely a product of him being hurt...that's how he's developed. That's as far as he's come in 4 years.

The point is that it IS too soon to write him off and call the pick a bust, but any objective, detached look at his skill-set will tell you that he projects to be a third pairing journeyman defenseman with some snarl, and nothing more. That's what he's showing us RIGHT NOW, when he's completely healthy. That doesn't mean he's a failure as a player, that just means it was a waste of what was an utterly incredible fluke of an opportunity to draft an impact player at 10th overall. Take that sentiment out, and you see him for what he is.:repped:

Future
10-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Few notes on Mcilrath.
His age is 22, but this is his 5th season since being drafted. We are heading near the end of the comfort window of a player developing.

Also, can't really compare him to Chara.
Those came from Mcilrath being 6'4 and 212lbs during draft day. Since then he's put on a 8lbs.
He's closer to John Moore size then Chara.

Chara was drafted in 96, in 97-98 he played 25 games for the Islanders. The following season he played 59 games.
To sum it up, the 5 years since Chara's draft year, he played in 231 NHL games.
That's a lot of ground for Mcilrath to make up this season ;)
My only point with Chara was that, at age 22, he was just a prospect, not a good NHLer. He was -27 in that second season and then -27 again the next year. He didn't put up significant points either season. The biggest difference is that McIlrath is learning at the AHL level because there are good defensemen with the Rangers, everyone on the Isles sucked, more or less lol

Chara may also have been in the league faster after he was drafted, but he was playing pro hockey before he got drafted, which McIlrath never did.

Here's a nugget....


One scout in Slovakia, recalled Chara, tried ardently to interest the Rangers. Jan Gajdosik, who today heads up European scouting for the Rangers, sent video of Chara and written reports to Manhattan. Look at the big kid here, he said, he could be worth drafting one day.

“I know he sent the stuff,’’ said Chara. “But they said, ‘Huh, he’s not even playing for their junior team in Trencin. How good can he be?’ And Jan would tell them, ‘No, look, it’s political.’ But, nothing.’’

Playing in Prague meant eyeballs were in the rink. Not only did Chara play for Sparta’s junior squad, he practiced with the elite team, sessions in which he gained valuable experience and wisdom. At the time, he recalled, a handful of NHL teams had scouts at most of the games and many of the practices.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/articles/2010/10/07/chara_is_back_where_it_all_began_for_him/?page=2

While you might not be able to compare McIlrath and Chara in terms of how good they are are going to be, I think it's perfectly fair to say that its similar in that the Isles made a mistake giving up on him at 23...and some are already labelling McIlrath a bust when he's only 22.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 04:19 PM
Mcilrath played two years in WHL after being drafted

A massive step up from any Czech jr league

Future
10-06-2014, 04:28 PM
Yea, but if he was practicing with the top team, that's getting used to the speed of the professional game better than what McIlrath would get in juniors. The skill level relative to the NHL isn't there of course, but those guys are still adults and professional hockey players.

Cash or Czech?
10-06-2014, 04:56 PM
I'd see him turning prop after this college season, and making the jump to the AHL this year for end of season and playoffs.
Next season (Boyle's second) he could get a full year in the AHL.

But as of now, I see him as a much more viable option to get top 4 minutes if we are looking from within.

Call it wishful thinking but I'm hoping he can be a third pairing defenseman and replace Klein as soon as next year.

Kevin
10-06-2014, 05:18 PM
Call it wishful thinking but I'm hoping he can be a third pairing defenseman and replace Klein as soon as next year.

I think it's still a possibility. I think he looked better during this training camp than Allen and hopefully makes the necessary progression this season in Hartford. I don't know if asking him to be the 6th Dman is asking too much.

Pete
10-06-2014, 05:36 PM
I can't see any corollary at all between Chara and McIlrath.

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 06:41 PM
I can't see any corollary at all between Chara and McIlrath.

Both taller then we are Pete.

Pete
10-06-2014, 06:41 PM
Both taller then we are Pete.

Zuke is taller than I am, too. :(

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 06:50 PM
I think it's perfectly fair to say that its similar in that the Isles made a mistake giving up on him at 23...and some are already labelling McIlrath a bust when he's only 22.

It was a terrible trade for the Islanders.

But it was Chara and a 1st round pick for Alexi Yashin.
Remember, Yashin had just put up seasons of 75, 72, 94, and 88pts from age 20-24

As a 23/24 year old he had just finished 6th in NHL scoring on a terrible team.
Behind only Jagr, Selanne, Karia, Forsberg, and Sakic

My point is that Mcilrath plus that 1st round pick aren't going to get us Tavares, Stampkos, etc.



That would be like us trading Mcilrath and

Puck Head
10-06-2014, 06:51 PM
Zuke is taller than I am, too. :(

It's because he has much bigger hair.

Gorilla Salad
10-06-2014, 06:53 PM
It's because he has much bigger hair.

He is a furry little varmint, isn't he?

Drew a Penalty
10-06-2014, 06:59 PM
Zuke is taller than I am, too. :(

I'm calling bullshit there. Four years ago I was almost as tall as Zuccarello and I'm pretty sure you're taller than I am. Zucc is tiny.

Shanahammer
10-06-2014, 09:07 PM
He is a furry little varmint, isn't he?

The Varmint Cong

Respecttheblue
10-07-2014, 12:04 AM
I was more impressed with Haggerty than both Miller and Hayes this preseason. Im surprised he didn't make the team.

Haggerty opened my eyes, but I'm all for letting him develop. Something happens... good chance he gets a look if he plays well down there.

We need to look at centers a bit more and that's why Hayes is getting some more time up with the big club...he needs to do better than what he's done so far if he wants to stay here, though.

The Dude
10-07-2014, 12:13 AM
Haggerty opened my eyes, but I'm all for letting him develop. Something happens... good chance he gets a look if he plays well down there.

We need to look at centers a bit more and that's why Hayes is getting some more time up with the big club...he needs to do better than what he's done so far if he wants to stay here, though.

Im with ya. Hes a little raw, but imo he looked more in control than Hates and certainly more involved than Stempniak (sp? I'll never get it right).

Really liked his poise and his wanting to take the puck to the net. I dont even think thats his game, but he did it and did it well.

For sure the first call up. Was hoping for more from Kristo. Not that he looked all that bad. Hope these two can get each other going and dominating the AHL, then have it translate to the bigs.

If PA Parenteu can do it. These two certainly can.

RichieNextel305
10-07-2014, 12:54 AM
Agreed on all points on Haggerty. Definitely looks like he has NHL-potential. I loved what I saw from him in the preseason. But, I think it's smartest for him to go to Hartford, see some big pro minutes, score down there and then get his look up here. I think he has a future here.