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Phil in Absentia
09-05-2014, 12:20 PM
:tweet: @AGrossRecord: John Moore "very optimistic" his deal will get done soon. Says there's been movement in talks over past week.

:tweet: @stevezipay: #NYR RFA dman John Moore says lots of movement on contract in last week, optimistic he'll have deal by camp

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"This week a lot of ground was made up," said Moore, who was acquired from Columbus in 2013 in the Marian Gaborik trade and had four goals and 11 assists while averaging 15:20 on ice per game. "Things started to pick up. Unless something really goes wrong, I'd be surprised if it's not done by training camp."

Moore, who concluded a three-year, entry-level deal worth $3.075 million, was given a qualifying offer and his agent and the Rangers are believed to be discussing a two-year contract. Moore's cap hit was $975,000 last season.

"I want to be here and I have faith in the Rangers," he said. "We're just trying to be fair."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/john-moore-new-contract-with-rangers-is-close-1.9236558?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

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On a related note, Brooks reported back in late July (http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/showthread.php?14352-Rangers-Want-Brassard-Multi-Year-Moore-Expected-to-Sign-For-Less-Than-1M&p=691975&viewfull=1#post691975) that Moore, who lacks meaningful leverage (arbitration rights) is expected to sign a one-year deal for close to his $850,000 Qualifying Offer.

fletch
09-05-2014, 12:34 PM
good news, always nice to have a deal in place before camp

momentum
09-05-2014, 12:45 PM
good news, always nice to have a deal in place before camp

Indeed

BlueJay
09-05-2014, 01:23 PM
Excellent news.

Slobberknocker
09-05-2014, 01:23 PM
minor annoyance if this lags. my guess is he gets signed and is in ontime. if i was him i wouldn't want to see connor allen getting time in his slot.

Pete
09-05-2014, 01:27 PM
This is probably the least consequential contract to our situation. There are at least 3 viable options for the #6 D spot between Allen, Kostka and Hunwick, plus McIlrath if he earns a spot.

I'm confident a deal gets done, but I'm certainly not worried if it doesn't.

RichieNextel305
09-05-2014, 02:25 PM
I disagree. I know you're not a big Moore fan though Pete.

I like him. I like what he brings now, and what he could bring later. I think he certainly had his rough patches last season, but I think he improved as the year went on. I think for a 5-6 defenseman, he works here. He skates well, and he could produce some offense.

That being said, I do agree on your statement about their being 3 viable options for the 6th D-spot. Allen, Kostka and Hunwick are all good players. That being said, provided Moore is healthy, I don't see them taking his spot.

Phil in Absentia
09-05-2014, 02:28 PM
Another small update:


"This week a lot of ground was made up," said Moore, who was acquired from Columbus in 2013 in the Marian Gaborik trade and had four goals and 11 assists while averaging 15:20 on ice per game. "Things started to pick up. Unless something really goes wrong, I'd be surprised if it's not done by training camp."

Moore, who concluded a three-year, entry-level deal worth $3.075 million, was given a qualifying offer and his agent and the Rangers are believed to be discussing a two-year contract. Moore's cap hit was $975,000 last season.

"I want to be here and I have faith in the Rangers," he said. "We're just trying to be fair."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/john-moore-new-contract-with-rangers-is-close-1.9236558?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Pete
09-05-2014, 02:31 PM
I'm not really talking about Moore, specifically. I've heard all about his tools, and I've seen his tools, and I've seen him not be a very effective hockey player, despite his tools.

I'm talking about the 6th D spot. Either Moore will be here, or he won't.

If he's not, a guy like Kostka, or even Allen, doesn't seem like a downgrade to me. Moore just isn't that good.

Whether or not he improves is the question. But the player he has shown to be as a Ranger? Those shoes can be filled with in house options without much impact, IMO.

Slobberknocker
09-05-2014, 04:29 PM
tell you what. how cool would it be if some of these lower defensemen really have a strong showing at camp, and i mean a strong showing. what a position of strength we could be dealing from to make a deal for a legit sniper if need be at some point this year.

i know i'm dreaming but what the hell, it is sep 5.

James Lionel Price
09-05-2014, 10:13 PM
I'm not really talking about Moore, specifically. I've heard all about his tools, and I've seen his tools, and I've seen him not be a very effective hockey player, despite his tools.

I'm talking about the 6th D spot. Either Moore will be here, or he won't.

If he's not, a guy like Kostka, or even Allen, doesn't seem like a downgrade to me. Moore just isn't that good.

Whether or not he improves is the question. But the player he has shown to be as a Ranger? Those shoes can be filled with in house options without much impact, IMO.



Moore is a lot better than guys like Hunwick and Kostka, who are essentially career minor leaguers. He's big, he skates well, and he's young. But as of now, he was a plus 7 on a team that went to the finals. So even if he does not get much better, he's already good. And he'll get a lot more $ than the guys who would replace him because he deserves more than them. After Allen has played a couple hundred regular season NHL games and a bunch more in the playoffs, maybe he will be as good as Moore.

But the other 2 guys are strictly for organizational depth -- not even so much NHL depth. BC if they end up getting a lot of run, we will be in a bind.

Myusername
09-06-2014, 03:13 AM
I'm not really talking about Moore, specifically. I've heard all about his tools, and I've seen his tools, and I've seen him not be a very effective hockey player, despite his tools.

I'm talking about the 6th D spot. Either Moore will be here, or he won't.

If he's not, a guy like Kostka, or even Allen, doesn't seem like a downgrade to me. Moore just isn't that good.

Whether or not he improves is the question. But the player he has shown to be as a Ranger? Those shoes can be filled with in house options without much impact, IMO.

Allen has played 0 games in the NHL. Despite your bias against Moore, he's a downgrade right now.

No this is isn't the most important contract this season, and the fact that he isn't signed yet indicates that, but I'll take a given over some players that have never played a game at MSG.

Pete
09-06-2014, 07:11 AM
Moore is a lot better than guys like Hunwick and Kostka, who are essentially career minor leaguers. He's big, he skates well, and he's young. But as of now, he was a plus 7 on a team that went to the finals. So even if he does not get much better, he's already good. And he'll get a lot more $ than the guys who would replace him because he deserves more than them. After Allen has played a couple hundred regular season NHL games and a bunch more in the playoffs, maybe he will be as good as Moore.

But the other 2 guys are strictly for organizational depth -- not even so much NHL depth. BC if they end up getting a lot of run, we will be in a bind. Being big, young and a good skater don't necessarily make you a better hockey player. Being plus 7 playing protected minutes doesn't either.

Right now, he's serviceable. So are Kostka and Allen.


Allen has played 0 games in the NHL. Despite your bias against Moore, he's a downgrade right now.

No this is isn't the most important contract this season, and the fact that he isn't signed yet indicates that, but I'll take a given over some players that have never played a game at MSG.

By this logic, no rookie would ever make this team.

I didn't realize not thinking a player was very good means you're biased. I'll keep that in mind.

Vodka Drunkenski
09-06-2014, 07:43 AM
Moore is what he is, 3rd pair defense playing limited minutes. Honestly, I think Allen is an upgrade over him. Allen = Sauer IMO

James Lionel Price
09-06-2014, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE=Pete;697622]Being big, young and a good skater don't necessarily make you a better hockey player. Being plus 7 playing protected minutes doesn't either.

Right now, he's serviceable. So are Kostka and Allen.


I like that. "Protected" minutes. But maybe the team has better players ahead of him? Could be. There are 4 guys ahead of him making a lot of money, and Klein also makes good $. Back to protected minutes...his ice time was up over the prior year by almost 4 minutes a game. Do you think they would increase his ice if he were not improving? Did increasing his ice seem to help or hurt the team? Also, why are you intent on "serviceable"? Don't you want to play the best player possible?

Moore had career highs in goals, assists, points, and shots. And since he is young, big, and skates well, if, heaven forbid someone important goes down ahead of him, he would be counted on to do more. That's not the case with filler defensemen.

Pete
09-06-2014, 11:16 AM
I like that. "Protected" minutes. But maybe the team has better players ahead of him? Could be. There are 4 guys ahead of him making a lot of money, and Klein also makes good $. Back to protected minutes...his ice time was up over the prior year by almost 4 minutes a game. Do you think they would increase his ice if he were not improving? Did increasing his ice seem to help or hurt the team? Also, why are you intent on "serviceable"? Don't you want to play the best player possible?

Moore had career highs in goals, assists, points, and shots. And since he is young, big, and skates well, if, heaven forbid someone important goes down ahead of him, he would be counted on to do more. That's not the case with filler defensemen.

He and Klein's minutes dropped over the course of the playoffs to the point they played 11-12 minutes a game against low quality opposition. Extra Skater showed this, but that site is defunct. Improving players aren't protected.

Moore has the potential to be more than he is right now, which is serviceable.

Drew a Penalty
09-06-2014, 11:23 AM
Allen has played 0 games in the NHL. Despite your bias against Moore, he's a downgrade right now.

No this is isn't the most important contract this season, and the fact that he isn't signed yet indicates that, but I'll take a given over some players that have never played a game at MSG.

Allen played 3 games this year while some guys were out. He was actually very solid in those games. Vigneault also said, “he was one of our better Ds. He out played some of the other guys and deserved to be out there. He was poised with the puck, not afraid to take a hit to make a play. That is why he got that ice time.” Link (http://snyrangersblog.com/prospects/conor-allen/readstats-conor-allens-debut/)

Allen is 24, he's old enough that he can get some time and he was the Pack's best defenseman last season. Moore might have more games played than him, but that doesn't make him any better. Having watched Allen, I'd take him over Moore. He might not be as big or as fast, but I think he's more reliable.

The Dude
09-06-2014, 02:56 PM
I dont think it's in the Rangers plans... But what is Moore worth in trade? What kind of draft pick can they get for him? A 2nd?

Ive never been that impressed with Moore. He has a bunch of attributes, but like Pete says (and i dont agree with Pete that often), hes just not that good of a hockey player.

Maybe retaining him and seeing if he can learn from Boyle would be a plus. He hasnt really had an offensive d-man around to pick his brain or kinda show him the ropes.

I just dont know which is worth more. Giving Moore a contract and hoping he turns the corner, or giving Mclrath or Allen the job and seeing if they develop in low pressure minutes.

phillyb™
09-07-2014, 11:26 AM
i like moore's speed.
he pinches more and can offer some offense due to his ability to get back on d turning those legs.
otherwise, i wouldn't mind seeing kostka or someone else get that spot.

James Lionel Price
09-07-2014, 12:01 PM
He and Klein's minutes dropped over the course of the playoffs to the point they played 11-12 minutes a game against low quality opposition. Extra Skater showed this, but that site is defunct. Improving players aren't protected.

Moore has the potential to be more than he is right now, which is serviceable.


Which 5th and 6th d-men for any team where there were not injuries had their minutes increased in the playoffs? Dropping playoff minutes is a sign that there are better guys ahead of him. But let's be serious. They made a trade to acquire him. He was a 1st round pick. They are about to sign him. So he has a future here. Why we should cast a guy aside like that, who, has not approached his prime, is unwise.

Say what you like about serviceable. Hunwick and Kostka do not have a future with the team. They probably aren't even on 1 way deals. So that they are gonna give Moore a lot more than that tells you, aside from those stats, which again, in minutes was way up, and in goals/assists/points were career highs, along with a plus 7, tells you he is improving.

Diaz is serviceable. Moore is a guy that we need going forward. Serviceable guys get replaced. Good players get retained.

Pete
09-07-2014, 12:39 PM
Which 5th and 6th d-men for any team where there were not injuries had their minutes increased in the playoffs? Dropping playoff minutes is a sign that there are better guys ahead of him. But let's be serious. They made a trade to acquire him. He was a 1st round pick. They are about to sign him. So he has a future here. Why we should cast a guy aside like that, who, has not approached his prime, is unwise.

Say what you like about serviceable. Hunwick and Kostka do not have a future with the team. They probably aren't even on 1 way deals. So that they are gonna give Moore a lot more than that tells you, aside from those stats, which again, in minutes was way up, and in goals/assists/points were career highs, along with a plus 7, tells you he is improving.

Diaz is serviceable. Moore is a guy that we need going forward. Serviceable guys get replaced. Good players get retained.

You're kind of going off on a tangent. They made a trade to acquire him? There were 3 players acquired in that trade. He wasn't even a regular player for the Jackets. He was a first round pick...So was Hugh Jessiman.

I'm not talking about his future, or anyone's else's. I never said to carry anyone aside our not sign him, either. That's out of left field...

I'm simply saying there are other players who are more than capable of playing Moore's minutes.

I hope Moore turns into McD 2.0. That makes us better and hard to play against. Right now, he's a serviceable 6th.

BlueJay
09-08-2014, 08:20 PM
You're kind of going off on a tangent. They made a trade to acquire him? There were 3 players acquired in that trade. He wasn't even a regular player for the Jackets. He was a first round pick...So was Hugh Jessiman.

I'm not talking about his future, or anyone's else's. I never said to carry anyone aside our not sign him, either. That's out of left field...

I'm simply saying there are other players who are more than capable of playing Moore's minutes.

I hope Moore turns into McD 2.0. That makes us better and hard to play against. Right now, he's a serviceable 6th.

I'm hoping he turns into what DZ should have been.

Pete
09-08-2014, 08:51 PM
I'm hoping he turns into what DZ should have been.
This thread has nothing to do with DZ. Stop trying to bait.

BlueJay
09-08-2014, 09:24 PM
This thread has nothing to do with DZ. Stop trying to bait.

It's not in any way shape or form. Moore reminds me of DZ, I think he will become that model, of what everyone had DZ projected as.

I certainly don't see him ever as McD 2.0 type.

Pete
09-08-2014, 09:27 PM
It's not in any way shape or form. Moore reminds me of DZ, I think he will become that model, of what everyone had DZ projected as.

I certainly don't see him ever as McD 2.0 type.
Understood.

IMO, He's got some of the same tools McD has. Just not the brain to go with them.

BlueJay
09-08-2014, 09:38 PM
It will be interesting to see what he is this season.

James Lionel Price
09-09-2014, 08:16 PM
You're kind of going off on a tangent. They made a trade to acquire him? There were 3 players acquired in that trade. He wasn't even a regular player for the Jackets. He was a first round pick...So was Hugh Jessiman.

I'm not talking about his future, or anyone's else's. I never said to carry anyone aside our not sign him, either. That's out of left field...

I'm simply saying there are other players who are more than capable of playing Moore's minutes.

I hope Moore turns into McD 2.0. That makes us better and hard to play against. Right now, he's a serviceable 6th.


Hey bro. Jessiman and Moore are related how? BC they were both #1s? Is Jessiman in the league? Kreider and Moore are...both #1s. LOL. What's it mean, bro?

Maybe that you'd dump more even easier than how you wanted to dump Kreider, before he even suited up?

BTW, explain to me how the Rangers ****did not***trade for John Moore?

We are keeping him and signing him and playing him and paying him...because we like him. Is he serviceable? LOL.

Absolutely!!! But a lot more so than you give him credit for.

Pete
09-09-2014, 08:31 PM
Hey bro. Jessiman and Moore are related how? BC they were both #1s? Is Jessiman in the league? Kreider and Moore are...both #1s. LOL. What's it mean, bro?

Maybe that you'd dump more even easier than how you wanted to dump Kreider, before he even suited up?

BTW, explain to me how the Rangers ****did not***trade for John Moore?

We are keeping him and signing him and playing him and paying him...because we like him. Is he serviceable? LOL.

Absolutely!!! But a lot more so than you give him credit for.
Firstly I'll ask that you address me with the same respect I've addressed you with in this debate...Without the "bros" and "LOL". If you can't have a conversation without being insulting and inflammatory, then we'll ask you not to debate.

Now, to address your post...You referenced Moore being a first round pick as if that means something. It doesn't. Plenty of first round picks don't pan out. Want another comparison? Scott Lachance. Drafted for his offense, had long career as a serviceable bottom pairing D.

What does wanting to trade Kreider have to do with anything? Maybe we have a Cup if we trade him...I mean Neil Smith traded some young guys...

The Rangers traded for 3 players. Moore was hardly the centerpiece.

We're signing him because he's an asset...an RFA with no leverage. What else would we do with him? The fact that they signed ex-NHLers from Europe and are about to sign someone out of the Substance Abuse program before they sign Moore is telling, IMO.