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Slobberknocker
08-26-2014, 03:39 PM
We'll, let's start with the most recent bit of news from the Rangers. According to multiple rumors, the Rangers and UFA Ryan Malone have engaged in talks to bring the recently arrested forward to Broadway on a tryout basis. Malone was recently arrested on DUI and cocaine charges. Since then he pleaded no contest to the DUI and the cocaine charges might get dropped if he completes a pre-trial intervention. But let's move past that.

If the reports are true, and the Rangers brought him in on a tryout, then the're potentially adding a bigger forward with an ability to score 40 points and add a little snarl too. On a tryout basis -- or even a two-way deal -- it's a low risk, high reward move that can only help the team.

That's still to be confirmed, though. Two moves Sather did pull off is luring coveted NCAA free agent Kevin Hayes to Broadway in a major coup and signing Matthew Lombardi for depth. Hayes was a no-brainer move that makes the team so much better and deeper for years to come.

Lombardi is a good depth signing who might make more of an impact than most people think. Either way, I think he's a really good option on the fourth line with Dominic Moore and Lee Stempniak. Yesterday I posted a story on how Hayes might push Stempniak down to the fourth line, which effectively pushed Glass out of the lineup. That was before the team even started talking about Malone.

It needs to be noted: the Rangers are at 51 contracts (once Ryan Graves' contract slides they will be at 50) which is the maximum. So a move would need to be made just to clear enough contract space to bring Malone in. But if the Rangers do, aren't they pushing Glass -- who they brought in this year -- out of their own lineup? Aren't both Lombardi and Malone better options than Glass right now?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rangers-forcing-tanner-glass-lineup-143113303.html;_ylt=AwrBJSAb4vxTYDwATjlNbK5_

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By far our most head scratching signing of the off season.

Future
08-26-2014, 03:53 PM
Glass was probably never going to be more than the 13th forward anyways...think Stu Bickel not Brian Boyle. He's a healthy scratch and you bring him in when you need a little more of a thumper.

Stempniak and Lombo don't necessarily play the same game, but they're interchangeable in the lineup I think. You could put them on pretty much any line for a short period of time and not miss too much. If MSL goes down, Stempniak can play a couple games there. Lombo can replace Brassard for a couple games.

I don't think Glass was ever going to be an 80 game type of player - which makes his contract even more ridiculous but that's a different argument. The guys they are signing will give a ton of flexibility and they won't have to depend on a rookie stepping up should an injury take place.

I personally don't really like that approach, I'd rather get the young guys in there, but I don't think its as simple as bringing in Malone and pushing out Glass.

Pete
08-26-2014, 03:57 PM
Glass is the only player in this lineup willing to drop the gloves, hence he'll probably be an every day player.

That is, until he plays himself out of the lineup with some clear, egregious errors.

I highly doubt a team crunching the cap is going to pay him that much to be a 13th forward. For all the shit that Slats does that we say "doesn't make sense", I just don't see that as a possibility.

I think this all means that Miller is getting moved. You'd have to think guys like Hayes push him further down the depth chart, and what about John Moore, still unsigned?

Slobberknocker
08-26-2014, 04:00 PM
if glass were to be cut would he still count on the cap?

Phil in Absentia
08-26-2014, 04:06 PM
1. This assumes Hayes makes the opening roster. While he will be given every opportunity to do so, this is not a guarantee, and we cannot operate from the position that he’s already earned a spot. He hasn’t.

2. Ryan Malone and Matthew Lombardi are both depth players, yes, but neither is a fighter, which Tanner Glass is. Say what you will about everything else about Glass’ game, but fighting is still part of this game, and is most prevalent/important during the regular season. Glass is the only guy on this roster, right now, today, who stands a punchers chance against most of the Eastern Conference pugilists.

3. Speaking of Malone and Lombardi, there’s no guarantee either of them make the opening roster either.

4. Vigneault is known, and has been, as a coach who favors veterans over rookies — at least vets who “get it” versus rookies who don’t. Hi, J.T. Miller. Another guy far from guaranteed a spot in the line-up (maybe not even in the organization).

5. Speaking of Vigneault, he coached Glass in Vancouver, so there's a chance he asked for him specifically.

Pete
08-26-2014, 04:06 PM
if glass were to be cut would he still count on the cap?

He'd count $525,000 agains the cap in Hartford.

But when is the last time a player was signed to a 3 year deal on the first day of free agency, and then didn't make the team?

Phil in Absentia
08-26-2014, 04:11 PM
if glass were to be cut would he still count on the cap?

Players cannot be cut in the NHL under this CBA. If Glass does not make the opening roster, he could be assigned to Hartford, but would need to pass waivers on the way. If he cleared waivers, and was re-assigned, per the CBA, the Rangers would only see a small cap savings. The rules have changed there regarding "stashing" veteran players in the AHL as a means to avoid their cap charge (Wade Redden rule).

Slobberknocker
08-26-2014, 04:16 PM
sounds like a you broke it you bought it philosophy

Phil in Absentia
08-26-2014, 04:36 PM
sounds like a you broke it you bought it philosophy

I don't think so. I think Glass is going to be a mainstay in the line-up this season, barring some insurmountable hockey drawbacks. Maybe those happen. Maybe they don't. This is why the games are played.

The blogosphere have made Glass something of a sacrificial lamb since the Rangers signed him, and seem to love reminding us about how he was the worst possession player in the NHL last season. While that's not without merit, let's also remember that role plays an important part here that CORSI, Fenwick and advanced analytics aren't going to be able to effectively argue against. Glass' role is as a fourth-line hitter, penalty-killer and pugilist. He's not being counted on for offense, or really as an every day hockey player. If your expectations begin and end there, of course he's already failed.

NYRangers92
08-26-2014, 04:38 PM
Im okay with Glass never playing a game for the Rangers. Guy had trouble playing in the Pens bottom 6 which had less depth than a kiddie pool

Pete
08-26-2014, 04:38 PM
Im okay with Glass never playing a game for the Rangers. Guy had trouble playing in the Pens bottom 6 which had less depth than a kiddie pool

I think we're offering a bit more in terms of competent line mates than Joe Vitale and Craig Adams. I find it odd that you'd single out one player in a group that was so lacking.

AmericanJesus
08-26-2014, 04:43 PM
Here's how I see things heading into camp.

Forwards Owning Spots (8):
Nash
Brassard
MSL
Zuccarello
Stepan
Hagelin
Kreider
Moore

Forwards Competing for Spots (4+1):
Vets:
Glass
Stempniak
Lombardi
Malone(?)

Youth:
Miller
Hayes
Fast
Lindberg
Haggerty
Kristo
Duclair(?)

Along with a few with an outside shot like Bourque, Hrivik, McCarthy, etc.

NYRangers92
08-26-2014, 04:53 PM
I think we're offering a bit more in terms of competent line mates than Joe Vitale and Craig Adams. I find it odd that you'd single out one player in a group that was so lacking.

Just going by what I watched during Pens games last year haha. They all stunk and Glass still stood out

The Dude
08-26-2014, 07:54 PM
I guess they just want as much depth as possible. Maybe forcing Hates and Miller to the A to start the season as per the Rangers usual. Then give tons of opportunities to the Glass', Lombardi, Malone, Stempniak types. Much like how they gave Pyatt, and Pouliot every chance to get it going.

May be good for Hayes and Miller to get to know each other in the minors and kinda push each other along with Kristo. Sounds like a nice line no?

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
08-26-2014, 09:18 PM
Maybe the reason glass got so much money was because there was a chance we'd demote him. He took more money for less guarantee of playing time/even being in the NHL.

Or maybe slats is taking advantage of opportunities in front of him and who cares what happens to tanner glass

Pete
08-26-2014, 09:37 PM
I doubt that. We apparently weren't the only team after Glass, iirc.

Drew a Penalty
08-26-2014, 09:41 PM
I think his salary was just the usual Ranger enforcer salary. It's just what Sather pays enforcers. Look at Brashear, Boogaard and Asham, the 3 most recent FA signed enforcers. All earned $1.4-5M per year. Even Dorsett despite being traded for earned the same amount.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
08-26-2014, 11:57 PM
fair enough. just a thought.

JOHN
08-27-2014, 05:27 AM
I doubt that. We apparently weren't the only team after Glass, iirc.

Well, if that's the case and Glass is the odd man out, it does mean there are teams out there who might be interested in trading for him.

Pete
08-27-2014, 08:30 AM
Well, if that's the case and Glass is the odd man out, it does mean there are teams out there who might be interested in trading for him.

Possibly. Unless he's a Ranger because no one wanted to pay him that salary...

JOHN
08-27-2014, 08:33 AM
Possibly. Unless he's a Ranger because no one wanted to pay him that salary...

I think that's a very real possibility, but it's also fair to argue that, coming off the finals run and the way we have made aggressive changes to play a certain style of hockey, plus the NYC factor, if money was equal or close we had more to offer beyond that.

Pete
08-27-2014, 08:37 AM
I think that's a very real possibility, but it's also fair to argue that, coming off the finals run and the way we have made aggressive changes to play a certain style of hockey, plus the NYC factor, if money was equal or close we had more to offer beyond that.

Truth. And AV.

JOHN
08-27-2014, 08:38 AM
Truth. And AV.

Can't forget about the French guy.

AmericanJesus
08-27-2014, 08:47 AM
If the Rangers go with someone else besides Glass as a roster player, the salary will be a wash. As Pete mentioned, $925K of his salary does go down with him. His replacement would be making that or less. Sure, we could have gone straight to B and saved $525K in cap space, but at the same time, I suspect that he'll make the team as our 13th forward and be slotted in for 40-50 games against more physical opponents. And he's he also averaged like a minute and a half per game PKing for a team who's PK effeciency (85.0%) was just a hair under our own (85.3%).

Finally, while this deal may look worse in hindsight, we didn't know we were going to be getting Hayes who has a real shot of demoting some of the other guys we signed. And we didn't know we'd land guys like Stempniak, Lombardi and maybe Malone on the cheap. None of them can fight, either. That's a dimension to Glass' game that we don't have anywhere else. Sure, you can replace him cheaper, but then you're getting a completely useless player in any other area of the game. Fighters that can fill at least one other role (PK in this case) are going to be at a premium.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 09:12 AM
If the Rangers go with someone else besides Glass as a roster player, the salary will be a wash. As Pete mentioned, $925K of his salary does go down with him. His replacement would be making that or less. Sure, we could have gone straight to B and saved $525K in cap space, but at the same time, I suspect that he'll make the team as our 13th forward and be slotted in for 40-50 games against more physical opponents. And he's he also averaged like a minute and a half per game PKing for a team who's PK effeciency (85.0%) was just a hair under our own (85.3%).

Finally, while this deal may look worse in hindsight, we didn't know we were going to be getting Hayes who has a real shot of demoting some of the other guys we signed. And we didn't know we'd land guys like Stempniak, Lombardi and maybe Malone on the cheap. None of them can fight, either. That's a dimension to Glass' game that we don't have anywhere else. Sure, you can replace him cheaper, but then you're getting a completely useless player in any other area of the game. Fighters that can fill at least one other role (PK in this case) are going to be at a premium.

It should be added: "whether you like it or not". The common response to this is "well fighting sucks" (in whatever variation it comes in). While someone may think that, that doesn't change the fact it still matters in the NHL today.

Pete
08-27-2014, 09:13 AM
If the Rangers go with someone else besides Glass as a roster player, the salary will be a wash. As Pete mentioned, $925K of his salary does go down with him. His replacement would be making that or less. Sure, we could have gone straight to B and saved $525K in cap space, but at the same time, I suspect that he'll make the team as our 13th forward and be slotted in for 40-50 games against more physical opponents. And he's he also averaged like a minute and a half per game PKing for a team who's PK effeciency (85.0%) was just a hair under our own (85.3%).

Finally, while this deal may look worse in hindsight, we didn't know we were going to be getting Hayes who has a real shot of demoting some of the other guys we signed. And we didn't know we'd land guys like Stempniak, Lombardi and maybe Malone on the cheap. None of them can fight, either. That's a dimension to Glass' game that we don't have anywhere else. Sure, you can replace him cheaper, but then you're getting a completely useless player in any other area of the game. Fighters that can fill at least one other role (PK in this case) are going to be at a premium.

Agree. There's a reason BizNasty and Carcillo are unemployed.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 09:15 AM
Agree. There's a reason BizNasty and Carcillo are unemployed.

Well, Carcillo can do a little more. A lot more, even. He's a hockey player who can fight. Biz is a fighter who can kind of play hockey. Carcillo isn't employed for other reasons (his reputation — similar to what happened to Avery), but I do agree with your (and Dave's) point. Fighters need to do more than punch.

Pete
08-27-2014, 09:18 AM
Well, Carcillo can do a little more. A lot more, even. He's a hockey player who can fight. Biz is a fighter who can kind of play hockey. Carcillo isn't employed for other reasons (his reputation similar to what happened to Avery), but I do agree with your (and Dave's) point. Fighters need to do more than punch.

I don't agree about Carcillo, there's always a team willing to overlook reputation if your can actually play (and its usually the Rangers - hence Malone), however I don't want to hijack the thread over it.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 09:20 AM
Fair enough. We agree in principle, anyway. Glass isn't just a pugilist. If the Rangers wanted a guy who could only throw punches, Biz was (and still is) available. They got a guy who can give them more, like penalty-killing, who has familiarity with the head coach (who I've read — unconfirmed of course — actually asked for him).

Pete
08-27-2014, 09:31 AM
Fair enough. We agree in principle, anyway. Glass isn't just a pugilist. If the Rangers wanted a guy who could only throw punches, Biz was (and still is) available. They got a guy who can give them more, like penalty-killing, who has familiarity with the head coach (who I've read unconfirmed of course actually asked for him).

Yep, I feel like Glass is going to be the guy everyone hates to see in the lineup over "better" players.

Similar to Voros -> Dawes/Prucha/Fritsche.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 09:43 AM
Yep, I feel like Glass is going to be the guy everyone hates to see in the lineup over "better" players.

Similar to Voros -> Dawes/Prucha/Fritsche.

Well, not everyone. ;)

But yeah, you can already see the writing on the wall there for sure.

I can see the argument now — "Jesper Boondoggle should be playing over Glass! GLASS SUCKS! He just gets punched! At least Boondoggle can doggle boons!"

Ba Ba Bluey
08-27-2014, 12:00 PM
Well, not everyone. ;)

But yeah, you can already see the writing on the wall there for sure.

I can see the argument now — "Jesper Boondongle should be playing over Glass! GLASS SUCKS! He just gets punched! At least Boondongle can dongle boons!"

I think I just found my next jersey purchase...

Puck Head
08-27-2014, 12:06 PM
No idea what state of mind Malone is in right now, but he's been a guy willing to throw down the gloves also.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 12:11 PM
No idea what state of mind Malone is in right now, but he's been a guy willing to throw down the gloves also.

This is true, but I don't think I'd ever really consider him an enforcer, or consider him in the same "role" Glass has.

It's encouraging that he's willing, but how often is the kicker there. With Glass, you are probably getting a dozen bouts a year. Malone would probably give you half that. Not to mention they probably fight a different caliber of opponent.

Puck Head
08-27-2014, 02:45 PM
This is true, but I don't think I'd ever really consider him an enforcer, or consider him in the same "role" Glass has.

It's encouraging that he's willing, but how often is the kicker there. With Glass, you are probably getting a dozen bouts a year. Malone would probably give you half that. Not to mention they probably fight a different caliber of opponent.

Meh, Glass is a middle weight.
Think Dorsett IMO.
Malone reminds me of a Dubinsky type, (most of his fights are out of anger, or reacting to a teammate getting touched).

Neither are going to scare anybody away IMO

momentum
08-27-2014, 03:01 PM
Wow Glass is getting a lot of crap in this thread...how about we let him play a few games for us before we declare how horrific he is.

I think Glass fits in quite nicely in our lineup considering he has history with AV and what players we lost and the majority of our remaining lineup being quite soft.

Personally I'm going to give him a chance to prove himself before I call him out as horrible.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 03:19 PM
Meh, Glass is a middle weight.
Think Dorsett IMO.
Malone reminds me of a Dubinsky type, (most of his fights are out of anger, or reacting to a teammate getting touched).

Neither are going to scare anybody away IMO

Glass is 6'1, 210lbs. He's not a "heavyweight", but even as a middle weight he out-classes and out-weighs the guys in Dorsett's group. Dorsett was 5'11, 185lbs, or close to it. He had the same "any takers" approach, but it's why he lost most fights. Same reason Hollweg never won either. Just no reach or weight to work to your advantage.

I'm not talking about fear as much as I am a willingness to swim in those waters. Glass knows his role, and accepts it means having to try to out-punch George Parros from time-to-time. Malone is more like Dubinsky, in the sense he's probably never going to fight any real enforcer, but will dabble in the occasional bout with a guy like Mike Weber or Mike Richards.

Glass' last dozen bouts include Ryane Clowe, Matt Martin, Chris Neil, Cody McCormick and Adam McQuaid. Lots of size there.

Puck Head
08-27-2014, 03:26 PM
I considered Glass a middleweight due to the players he dances with.

Last season
Asham
Martin
Mcormick
Simmonds
Asham (again)
Mcquad

Season before
Clowe
Dorsett
Harison
Nystrom
Martin
Maroon
Neil

Overall I'd consider those middle weights, the guys that Avery or Dorsett typically fight.

Phil in Absentia
08-27-2014, 03:46 PM
Sure, I agree. Though there is some size in there, and he's giving it up to quite a few of them (Martin, McCormick, McQuaid, Clowe).

I just think Glass has a better understanding/appreciation for that role than Malone would. The two fight for very different reasons. I dunno if you're gonna be able to convince Malone to double his fight card just to take on that role of jumping into more staged bouts in the year.