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View Full Version : If You Could Go Back in Time and Change One Rangers' Move...



BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-29-2014, 02:19 PM
be it a trade we made, a draft pick (dead giveaway what I mean there) or whatever you can think of, what move would you change?

AmericanJesus
07-29-2014, 02:28 PM
Great thread. Here are two links that will help people decide:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/New_York_Rangers/1

I have to think about this though.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-29-2014, 02:33 PM
Great thread. Here are two links that will help people decide:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/New_York_Rangers/1

I have to think about this though.

that trade tracker site is a good time killer. Going back in time and looking at trades from years ago. fun times

edit: spurred me to check on what Nigel Dawes is up to. dude is killing it in the KHL

AmericanJesus
07-29-2014, 02:35 PM
I would have gone off the board in 2007 with our first round pick and selected P.K. Subban at #17, hopefully setting off a butterfly effect that has Cherepanov's heart condition discovered before it was too late. There were other draft selections that were close, but I thinking about McD - Subban both as young as they are makes me wet myself.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-29-2014, 02:43 PM
I would have gone off the board in 2007 with our first round pick and selected P.K. Subban at #17, hopefully setting off a butterfly effect that has Cherepanov's heart condition discovered before it was too late. There were other draft selections that were close, but I thinking about McD - Subban both as young as they are makes me wet myself.

Montreal fans understand

AmericanJesus
07-29-2014, 02:44 PM
Montreal fans understand

They had such ridiculous 1st and 2nd round picks in that draft. They traded one away for garbage and have alienated the other some. Makes you shake your head. Shit, just realized they picked up Max Pac at 22 as well.

Patrick Bateman
07-29-2014, 02:49 PM
Giroux

Phil in Absentia
07-29-2014, 03:20 PM
Two come to mind:

1. Sanguinetti over Giroux, when the Rangers were interested in Giroux, and the Flyers wanted Sanguinetti (so, basically, the Rangers took Sanguinetti to spite the Flyers).

2. The refusal to trade Kreider in a deal at the deadline in 11-12. They needed Rick Nash then, not that summer, even if he's lead them in goal-scoring the last two seasons. They had the team to go far, as we saw, and really just needed that extra goal-scorer for the post-season to put them over the top. That team, essentially minus Dubinsky and Kreider, as well as Erixon (who was a non-factor), at least on paper, looked SOLID.

Shane Falco
07-29-2014, 03:22 PM
Giroux

From that draft year alone there's enough to make you cry.

Kesler, Giroux, Getzlaf, Perry, Parise

NYRangers92
07-29-2014, 03:24 PM
Can't help but think about what wouldve happened had we held on to Marc Savard

Pete
07-29-2014, 03:26 PM
Can't help but think about what wouldve happened had we held on to Marc Savard

I gather he'd have continued to be the out of shape player with no work ethic that he was when we traded him.

Morphinity
07-29-2014, 03:27 PM
From that draft year alone there's enough to make you cry.

Kesler, Giroux, Getzlaf, Perry, Parise

You're mixing up the Sanguinetti draft in 2006 with the Jessiman draft in 2003.

NYRangers92
07-29-2014, 03:32 PM
I gather he'd have continued to be the out of shape player with no work ethic that he was when we traded him.

did anyone on those early 00s ranger teams have work ethic lol

Shane Falco
07-29-2014, 03:48 PM
You're mixing up the Sanguinetti draft in 2006 with the Jessiman draft in 2003.

Stop making me look stupid!

Damn it Ray.
















































Fuck reading :(

NYR2711
07-29-2014, 05:06 PM
Trade wise, the Tyutin trade annoys me a lot. Draft wise, between McIlrath, Sanguinetti, Montoya/Koprikoski and Jessiman picks, I don't know which one was worse was worse.

skunkman
07-29-2014, 05:10 PM
I would have liked to have kept Prust.

James Lionel Price
07-29-2014, 05:53 PM
Two come to mind:

1. Sanguinetti over Giroux, when the Rangers were interested in Giroux, and the Flyers wanted Sanguinetti (so, basically, the Rangers took Sanguinetti to spite the Flyers).

2. The refusal to trade Kreider in a deal at the deadline in 11-12. They needed Rick Nash then, not that summer, even if he's lead them in goal-scoring the last two seasons. They had the team to go far, as we saw, and really just needed that extra goal-scorer for the post-season to put them over the top. That team, essentially minus Dubinsky and Kreider, as well as Erixon (who was a non-factor), at least on paper, looked SOLID.


So you are upset that we did not trade Chris Kreider? Wow. And based on all of Nash's awesome production here, you think he would've had the killer clutch 012 post season? That's hilarious!

MacTruck27
07-29-2014, 07:50 PM
Pascal Dupius and a third for Alex Bourret

The Dude
07-29-2014, 07:57 PM
Dealing Zubov.
Drafting Korpikoski because he did a lot of sit ups..
Signing Gomez AND Drury
Breaking up the Jagr led team, and its philosophy, instead of adding to it.

CreaseCrusader91
07-29-2014, 08:03 PM
Dealing Zubov.
Drafting Korpikoski because he did a lot of sit ups..
Signing Gomez AND Drury
Breaking up the Jagr led team, and its philosophy, instead of adding to it.

Jagr left himself so that why that change was made.

Kevin
07-29-2014, 08:15 PM
As far as trades go I think the Tyutin one is the biggest loser of recent memory. Draft wise...the list is long...

The Dude
07-29-2014, 08:32 PM
Jagr left himself so that why that change was made.

Jagr left because the team philosophy changed and the reigns were handed to Gomez and Drury. Slats had no talks with Jagr that summer. No plans at all on bringing him back. Puck possession game was no longer in the plans. Instead, no plan and lazy shit play became the plan.

NYR2711
07-29-2014, 08:48 PM
As far as trades go I think the Tyutin one is the biggest loser of recent memory. Draft wise...the list is long...

Every time I see Tyuts play it kills me that we let him go for pretty much nothing. I wish he was still here man. He is a nice physical guy who can also provide some offense, we could really use a guy like that.

Pete
07-29-2014, 08:58 PM
Jagr left because the team philosophy changed and the reigns were handed to Gomez and Drury. Slats had no talks with Jagr that summer. No plans at all on bringing him back. Puck possession game was no longer in the plans. Instead, no plan and lazy shit play became the plan.

Jagr left because wanted to be the highest paid player. He negotiated with Omsk during a Ranger playoff run.

Parsley
07-29-2014, 08:58 PM
The refusal to trade Kreider in a deal at the deadline in 11-12. They needed Rick Nash then, not that summer, even if he's lead them in goal-scoring the last two seasons. They had the team to go far, as we saw, and really just needed that extra goal-scorer for the post-season to put them over the top. That team, essentially minus Dubinsky and Kreider, as well as Erixon (who was a non-factor), at least on paper, looked SOLID.

NAILED IT.

I must have this thought nearly once a month (during hockey season). Should have gone "ALL IN" there and done anything for Nash that run, I think it would have easily took them to the Cup with a better likelihood of a championship (compared to what they just went through)

Pete
07-29-2014, 09:08 PM
NAILED IT.

I must have this thought nearly once a month (during hockey season). Should have gone "ALL IN" there and done anything for Nash that run, I think it would have easily took them to the Cup with a better likelihood of a championship (compared to what they just went through)

Agree, even made a thread on it at some point. Nash on a team with Richards playing well and Gaborik, him not having to be the man, would have contributed.

Parsley
07-29-2014, 09:13 PM
Agree, even made a thread on it at some point. Nash on a team with Richards playing well and Gaborik, him not having to be the man, would have contributed.

Seriously, it hurts. The run we just witnessed (while it still stings) was pretty damn special.

11-12 ended in a big fat disappointment. We needed one guy that could get the puck in the net, atleast on occasion. Instead....JOHN FUCKING SCOTT at the deadline :doh:

Ugh, can't believe I have to think about this right now. Thanks guys.

Captain Clutch
07-29-2014, 09:18 PM
Drafting Jessiman and signing Redden. Those are the only from recent memory I would change.

DiJock94
07-29-2014, 10:59 PM
1. Giroux over Sanguinetti
2. Getzlaf over Jessiman
3. Tarasenko over Mcilrath

Mike
07-29-2014, 11:25 PM
I disagree with the Nash suggestion. We were outworked by 4 hard lines in the ECF. We rolled 5, sometimes 4 D. You're not winning shit in the NHL when you're playing 14 guys. Trading for Nash would have weakened our depth further. Kreider + + for Nash = no shot.

leetchy2
07-29-2014, 11:50 PM
Two trades I didn't like:

Dealing Kelly Miller & Mike Ridley to Washington for Bobby Carpenter.

Trading Dubinski, Anisimov, Erixon & 1st to Columbus for Nash. However I can forgive this one if we win a cup while Nash is here.

Mike
07-29-2014, 11:57 PM
Two trades I didn't like:

Dealing Kelly Miller & Mike Ridley to Washington for Bobby Carpenter.

Trading Dubinski, Anisimov, Erixon & 1st to Columbus for Nash. However I can forgive this one if we win a cup while Nash is here.
Why would you forgive it just because he's here? They almost won this year in spite of him being awful, not because he was helping. That's like forgiving the Brad Richards signing if they would have won this year. He did some nice things here, but he was brought here to fill 2 major holes. He didn't come close to either task. I'm glad he adjusted, and did other things to contribute during the ebbs, and flows, but it wasn't enough.

The Dude
07-30-2014, 04:42 AM
Jagr left because wanted to be the highest paid player. He negotiated with Omsk during a Ranger playoff run.


Didnt know that was fact. More rumor than anything. Jagr loved Ny and its surroundings.

He may have negotiated during the play offs. But only because he knew he was out. Sather and the Rangers pushed him out that year. Took what was working and changed direction.

Pete
07-30-2014, 07:19 AM
Didnt know that was fact. More rumor than anything. Jagr loved Ny and its surroundings.

He may have negotiated during the play offs. But only because he knew he was out. Sather and the Rangers pushed him out that year. Took what was working and changed direction.

No, it was a fact. He pretty much said as much. And it was confirmed he had meetings and dinner with the GM from Omsk.

Phil in Absentia
07-30-2014, 09:16 AM
So you are upset that we did not trade Chris Kreider? Wow. And based on all of Nash's awesome production here, you think he would've had the killer clutch 012 post season? That's hilarious!

You need to go back and re-read what I wrote, because you are inferring something I wasn't saying.

Am I upset we didn't trade Kreider? No. The thread isn't asking anything of the sort. It's asking if I can go back and change one Rangers' move, what would it be? For me, that would be dealing Kreider at the time in a deal with Dubinsky and Erixon to Columbus for Nash, who'd have stepped onto, arguably, the best roster the Rangers have iced in probably 20 years. I'm aware of Nash's post-season troubles, but again, at the time, I'd have pulled that trigger in gunning for a Cup with a highly productive Richards, Gáborík, etc. all in place.

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-30-2014, 09:47 AM
So you are upset that we did not trade Chris Kreider? Wow. And based on all of Nash's awesome production here, you think he would've had the killer clutch 012 post season? That's hilarious!

the 94 team traded Tony Amonte Mike Gartner and Todd Marchant to make a cup run. You have to sacrifice to get quality, especially on a cup run

DiJock94
07-30-2014, 10:57 AM
the 94 team traded Tony Amonte Mike Gartner and Todd Marchant to make a cup run. You have to sacrifice to get quality, especially on a cup run

I could argue we would've had a chance to compete after 94 if we had kept Gartner Amonte and Zubov

Pete
07-30-2014, 11:02 AM
But we probably wouldn't have the Cup...And Zubov wasn't traded until well after.

DiJock94
07-30-2014, 11:09 AM
Just pointing Zubov out because he was probably a player we should have held onto

momentum
07-30-2014, 11:29 AM
the draft of jessiman with so many great players such as parise and getzlaf still available really stand out as horrible...what I would give for getzlaf on this team right now...

!br-avery!
07-30-2014, 02:59 PM
Zubov is obvious
Trading Gaborik hurt us even though many wanted him traded,we could have used his scoring in the playoffs

BlairBettsBlocksEverything
07-30-2014, 03:02 PM
Zubov is obvious
Trading Gaborik hurt us even though many wanted him traded,we could have used his scoring in the playoffs

IDK I'm not as against that. Brassard has been a good return, Moore still has a lot of potential and we got what we could out of Dorsett.

!br-avery!
07-30-2014, 03:19 PM
Brassard has been good,I like him a lot
Moore is still up for debate and Dorsett never lived up to his fandom in Columbus

NYR2711
07-30-2014, 04:00 PM
Id take Gabby over having Brasard anyway.

The Dude
07-30-2014, 06:44 PM
No, it was a fact. He pretty much said as much. And it was confirmed he had meetings and dinner with the GM from Omsk.

Should have clarified that I was talking about wanting to be the highest paid player. He had a bad year and was shit on. He was being phased out and he knew it.

Phil in Absentia
07-30-2014, 08:09 PM
Jagr is convinced that the only way he can be as effective as he desires is if he remains the Rangers' signature player - the one who is depended upon the most and whose particular skills drive strategy decisions. And he believes that being paid as much as the club's current salary kings - $7 million men Scott Gomez and Chris Drury - is the only way to confirm that status.

"You know, money determines your position on the team - especially in the NHL," Jagr told reporters in the Czech Republic on Friday. "As a top earner, you have more respect, they treat you differently than other cheaper players. But what I pursue the most is trust.

"I've already realized that I was playing my best hockey when there was the most pressure on me. I need to hear or need to know: 'This is your team. You are the key element and it will do as you will do.' Then I can play my best hockey. And I feel I can still play on the highest level."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/jaromir-jagr-rangers-odds-article-1.292409

The Dude
07-30-2014, 08:28 PM
Umm yeah. Haven't we learned that translations arent always accurate?

Happens often. This statement may have also been contradicted after it was reported.

He wants trust and to be yhe focal point of the teams offense, and wants to be the higjest paid because you get treated better? That make sense to you?

James Lionel Price
07-30-2014, 08:31 PM
You need to go back and re-read what I wrote, because you are inferring something I wasn't saying.

Am I upset we didn't trade Kreider? No. The thread isn't asking anything of the sort. It's asking if I can go back and change one Rangers' move, what would it be? For me, that would be dealing Kreider at the time in a deal with Dubinsky and Erixon to Columbus for Nash, who'd have stepped onto, arguably, the best roster the Rangers have iced in probably 20 years. I'm aware of Nash's post-season troubles, but again, at the time, I'd have pulled that trigger in gunning for a Cup with a highly productive Richards, Gáborík, etc. all in place.


You wanted them to trade Kreider in a package for Nash. I see a lot of people here are favoring that move at that time. Too bad they got Nash at all but thankfully they did not trade Kreider. It's impossible to say that move or what move if any would have gotten them further, but the team seemed physically exhausted against NJ, and the finals may have been ugly if we'd have advanced passed NJ, and there would have been no Kreider.

Phil in Absentia
07-30-2014, 08:38 PM
Umm yeah. Haven't we learned that translations arent always accurate?

Happens often. This statement may have also been contradicted after it was reported.

He wants trust and to be yhe focal point of the teams offense, and wants to be the higjest paid because you get treated better? That make sense to you?

Yeah, I don't care enough about something that happened in 2007 to fight you on it. Your mind is already made up, clearly, and you want a smoking gun as evidence. You asked, I provided what a quick Google search would return. If that's not good enough for you, that's fine. There are more important things to discuss than whether or not Jágr's comments were "translated" properly or not, and this isn't a thread about that anyway.

The Dude
07-30-2014, 08:44 PM
Wasnt being a dick Rome. Not trying to fight. Just seems to be the case with translations. Could be possible. Just seemed like the writing was on the wall for Jagr, the day they signed Gomez and Drury, while pushing the Czechs out the door.

Is what it is. Old news in a thread about old moves.

Phil in Absentia
07-30-2014, 08:49 PM
No worries, man. I'm just saying, I really don't care enough about something that happened that long ago to harp too much on it. I do remember this being an issue, as well as him meeting with Anatoly Bardin, then GM of Avangard Omsk, during the Rangers' playoff run to negotiate his KHL contract.

Drew a Penalty
07-30-2014, 08:50 PM
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h340/HL30MR35/ScreenShot2014-07-30at84850PM_zps965e718c.png

So, we almost had two picks in this draft? Fucking hell.

Pete
07-30-2014, 08:50 PM
Wasnt being a dick Rome. Not trying to fight. Just seems to be the case with translations. Could be possible. Just seemed like the writing was on the wall for Jagr, the day they signed Gomez and Drury, while pushing the Czechs out the door.

Is what it is. Old news in a thread about old moves.

They didn't push the Czechs out. Nylander left willingly. Straka stayed.

The Dude
07-30-2014, 09:36 PM
They phased them all out.

Prucha

Nylander (not czech but part of Jagr click) and had no spot with Gomez and Drury slotting up as 1 and 2.

Malik

Rachunek I believe was Czech.

And wasnt Hossa a Jagr coat tail rider?
Isbister as well?

Most anyone who worked well with Jagr was dispatched elsewhere or not used. Not like they used Straka as a top six winger, but that was more due to injury and the emergence of Callahan and Avery.

Guess we agree to disagree, that the Rangers phased the Jagr system and its pieces out with the signings of Gomez and Drury as they switched to a tight trapping system that relied more on speed, rather than puck possession. Only to switch back late in the playoffs as nothing was working. Jagr being centered by Dubinsky carried the offense but wasn't enough. With Jagr stating he saved himself for the playoffs or something.... Imo just didnt want to throw Renney under the bus for employing a system that didnt fit the entire teams skills.

Mike
07-30-2014, 10:16 PM
Renney didn't want Jagr, or Shanahan back. That's a fact. They were both ignored when there should have been discussion about contracts. Jagr knew he was gone for sure, and they strung Shanahan along all the way up until camp started. Renney had a plan for the near future, and neither of them were in it. He doesn't like to coach to those type of players, as he's a bit intimidated by their over all successes compared to his. I understand his thinking there, but if you can't coach a guy going to the hof, then maybe you shouldn't be behind the bench. He went to Edmonton, all youngsters. Didn't do well there, but who does?

G1000
07-30-2014, 10:38 PM
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h340/HL30MR35/ScreenShot2014-07-30at84850PM_zps965e718c.png

So, we almost had two picks in this draft? Fucking hell.

The condition on that pick was literally "Eric Lindros suffers a concussion in the first 50 games and misses over a year"

So, I suppose the worst move that we could undo was not running Lindros ourselves.

Then again, players on the board for that pick were Mike Richards, Brian Boyle, Anthony Stewart, Jeff Tambellini and Corey Perry, so we'd probably have picked Boyle and ended up with two oversized disappointments of a first round pick instead of one.

Pete
07-30-2014, 11:54 PM
They phased them all out.

Prucha

Nylander (not czech but part of Jagr click) and had no spot with Gomez and Drury slotting up as 1 and 2.

Malik

Rachunek I believe was Czech.

And wasnt Hossa a Jagr coat tail rider?
Isbister as well?

Most anyone who worked well with Jagr was dispatched elsewhere or not used. Not like they used Straka as a top six winger, but that was more due to injury and the emergence of Callahan and Avery.

Guess we agree to disagree, that the Rangers phased the Jagr system and its pieces out with the signings of Gomez and Drury as they switched to a tight trapping system that relied more on speed, rather than puck possession. Only to switch back late in the playoffs as nothing was working. Jagr being centered by Dubinsky carried the offense but wasn't enough. With Jagr stating he saved himself for the playoffs or something.... Imo just didnt want to throw Renney under the bus for employing a system that didnt fit the entire teams skills.

Um...some revisionist history.here.

momentum
07-31-2014, 06:28 AM
Zubov is obvious
Trading Gaborik hurt us even though many wanted him traded,we could have used his scoring in the playoffs

Gaborik is up there for sure, really HATED to see him go.

JOHN
07-31-2014, 07:32 AM
Gaborik trade, not retaining Nylander, drafting McIlrath over Tarasenko and signing Redden are all moves I'd love to change.

Also, just because I hated him, never signing Adam Hall.

Pete
07-31-2014, 08:38 AM
Gaborik trade, not retaining Nylander, drafting McIlrath over Tarasenko and signing Redden are all moves I'd love to change.

Also, just because I hated him, never signing Adam Hall.

OP said one move. :)

JOHN
07-31-2014, 08:39 AM
OP said one move. :)

I can't read. :(

The Dude
07-31-2014, 09:15 AM
Um...some revisionist history.here.

In what way do you mean that?

The Dude
07-31-2014, 09:18 AM
How about NOT signing Chara?

I may be wrong but I believe Sathers words at the time were "hes not worth what hes asking". Then went out the following summer and signed Redden.

Pete
07-31-2014, 09:22 AM
They went hard after Chara. They offered more than Boston. He didn't want to come here.

Phil in Absentia
07-31-2014, 09:28 AM
How about NOT signing Chara?

I may be wrong but I believe Sathers words at the time were "hes not worth what hes asking". Then went out the following summer and signed Redden.


They went hard after Chara. They offered more than Boston. He didn't want to come here.

Was just gonna say, I remember them offering Chara a dump truck of money. He went for substantially less to Boston.

The Dude
07-31-2014, 09:59 AM
Yeah? Huh. I thought they didnt go hard at all with Sather having little interest. My bad.

Puck Head
07-31-2014, 08:41 PM
Last 5 years
2010 Draft- Fowler instead of Mcilrath

DiJock94
07-31-2014, 08:45 PM
Last 5 years
2010 Draft- Fowler instead of Mcilrath

I was kicking myself that they passed on Tarasenko didn't really think Fowler cause at the time Del Zotto seemed like the real deal.

resmd
08-02-2014, 05:29 PM
Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was probably one of the most lopsided trades in NYR history, and I'd argue we got the worst of the Park-Ratelle for Espo-Vadnais deal also but it is debatable since both teams went to the SCF over the ensuing 3 seasons I think.

Yes, I am old LOL.

Mike
08-02-2014, 07:12 PM
Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was probably one of the most lopsided trades in NYR history, and I'd argue we got the worst of the Park-Ratelle for Espo-Vadnais deal also but it is debatable since both teams went to the SCF over the ensuing 3 seasons I think.

Yes, I am old LOL.
Tough call. Boston was a better team at the time. Espo put up some solid numbers with us, and added a toughness that they needed to compete with Philly, Isles, and ironically Boston.

resmd
08-02-2014, 08:05 PM
Tough call. Boston was a better team at the time. Espo put up some solid numbers with us, and added a toughness that they needed to compete with Philly, Isles, and ironically Boston.

Yeah, I suppose, but Park played for like another 10 years with Boston and Ratelle had a couple of 100 pt seasons in Boston.

Still, Middleton for Hodge was brutal.

Future
08-04-2014, 10:04 AM
If you Pass on Jessiman and pick any one of the 10 other guys taken in the first round after him, then you don't have half the issues we have now.

That was a major blunder.