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CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 06:16 PM
Can you help me out? I would like all of your opinions. I can't give it away right now, but it would be a huge help. Thanks!

Looking for how people perceive players as disappointing. Were they a player who was good here, but great somewhere else? A trade that saw a player decrease? A FA signing etc? I would give more details, but can't at this point. Just know it isn't something stupid. I have my own idea in mind for this and a few other things, but just wanted some additional perspective.

Thanks.

Pete
07-25-2014, 06:17 PM
Need more context...actually disappointing, our was fan perception skewed?

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 06:18 PM
Need more context...actually disappointing, our was fan perception skewed?

I guess dual in nature. Disappointing because the player who came here bombed, they failed to meet expectations or it was just a huge letdown all together.

Pete
07-25-2014, 06:23 PM
In history? Jeez. That's a long time.

There's almost no right answer.

Drury for some.
Landmark
Brendl
Robitaille
Jessiman
McIlrath

Some may say Kovalev based on talent.

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 06:25 PM
In history? Jeez. That's a long time.

There's almost no right answer.

Drury for some.
Landmark
Brendl
Robitaille
Jessiman
McIlrath

Some may say Kovalev based on talent.

I am going to try and use a well known name. The bolded will help me for another category though.

Puck Head
07-25-2014, 06:29 PM
I think Bobby Holik could also get a mention.
5 year 45 million dollar contract, and he responds with a 35pt season.

Wade Redden would also be a option.

Pete
07-25-2014, 06:31 PM
I think Bobby Holik could also get a mention.

That would fall under the fan expectation umbrella for me.

Puck Head
07-25-2014, 06:35 PM
That would fall under the fan expectation umbrella for me.

I'm pretty sure at 9 million per season the Rangers also had expectations.
He was considered one of if not the best two way centerman in the league.
He looked lost here.

Pete
07-25-2014, 06:37 PM
I'm pretty sure at 9 million per season the Rangers also had expectations.
He was considered one of if not the best two way centerman in the league.
He looked lost here.

Yea, but you have to remember...He came from a strict and regimented NJ team to a spa environment. Management was partly to blame.

cousin
07-25-2014, 06:39 PM
Drury

Respecttheblue
07-25-2014, 06:42 PM
We have too many of these,
First there are the ones who never made it
Alexandre Dangle I mean Daigle*
Pavel Brenda, Oops I mean Brendl
Huge Specimen (up to you if deserves a real name)


And country clubbers deluxe
Mike not Keane to be here**
Brian Skrewed-the-rangers- Skrudland**
Sandis Bozolinsch
Kevin don't count your eggs before they Hatcher


* I temporarily forgot his name, despite numerous anecdotes from my friend Terrible Ted who met him long ago at an HHoF night and actually discussed his failure with him: "yes, but they are still paying me." I have no idea what Daigle was doing at an HHoF night, but what the heck.

** I am aware some folk thought these were OK signings, I just found them desperately underwhelming epitomes of the Country Club Era.

Maybe there were others worse, please feel free to remind me, I'll have a glass in hand by the time I read your post, I hope.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:01 PM
In history? Jeez. That's a long time.

There's almost no right answer.

Drury for some.
Landmark
Brendl
Robitaille
Jessiman
McIlrath

Some may say Kovalev based on talent.
McIlrath? The kid played 2 NHL games. How is he a disappointment?

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:13 PM
McIlrath? The kid played 2 NHL games. How is he a disappointment?

As a first rounder, in that class, that high, to only have played 2 games?

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:16 PM
As a first rounder, in that class, that high, to only have played 2 games?

He was a huge reach at 10 and they already said he would take a few years to develop. Plus an injury slowed him down a little. I dont see how that is a disappointment

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:17 PM
He was a huge reach at 10 and they already said he would take a few years to develop. Plus an injury slowed him down a little. I dont see how that is a disappointment

Ok. I do.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:22 PM
Ok. I do.

I think your opinion is wrong. A 22 year old kid isnt one of the biggest disappointments in this teams history

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:24 PM
I think your opinion is wrong. A 22 year old kid isnt one of the biggest disappointments in this teams history

Opinions aren't wrong or right. They just are.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:25 PM
Opinions aren't wrong or right. They just are.

Some opinions are bad. I just dont see how a project at #10 is a big disappointment.

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:27 PM
Some opinions are bad. I just dont see how a project at #10 is a big disappointment.

No. No. Opinions just are. You can agree or not. :-)

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:30 PM
No. No. Opinions just are. You can agree or not. :-)

Why dont you explain why McIlrath is a disappointment? Because he didnt make the team his first season? Sather said he was a project and could take years to develop. How is he a disappointment and Del Zotto doesnt make that list?

Drury too. Your expectations are way too high dude

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:37 PM
Why dont you explain why McIlrath is a disappointment? Because he didnt make the team his first season? Sather said he was a project and could take years to develop. How is he a disappointment and Del Zotto doesnt make that list?

Drury too. Your expectations are way too high dude

You have no clue what my expectation are for anyone. So don't presume to tell me they are high.

This thread wasn't created to debate McIlrath. I find him disappointing. If you don't, good for you.

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 07:40 PM
Most Disappointing Moment?

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:40 PM
You have no clue what my expectation are for anyone. So don't presume to tell me they are high.

This thread wasn't created to debate McIlrath. I find him disappointing. If you don't, good for you.

How was Drury disappointing? I mean what were you really expecting from him?

And you said Mcilrath was disappointing and i asked why you think that and you said because he was drafted 10th overall, yet Sather said he would take years to develop and he had a setback with an injury. Absolutely no reason to be disappointed with Mcilrath.

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:41 PM
Most Disappointing Moment?

In history!?!

Pete
07-25-2014, 07:43 PM
How was Drury disappointing? I mean what were you really expecting from him?

And you said Mcilrath was disappointing and i asked why you think that and you said because he was drafted 10th overall, yet Sather said he would take years to develop and he had a setback with an injury. Absolutely no reason to be disappointed with Mcilrath.

Taking a project with a top ten puck is disappointing. I wasn't disappointed in Drury. He was one of my favorite players. I defended him until he was bought out. I said some people would say he disappointed.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:44 PM
Taking a project with a top ten puck is disappointing. I wasn't disappointed in Drury. He was one of my favorite players. I defended him until he was bought out. I said some people would say he disappointed.

It is disappointing but dont hate the player, hate the genius GM who did it. McIlrath didnt ask to be drafted 10th and at the time the team thought he was a good pick but thats when Tortorella was coach, we have different needs now

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 07:57 PM
In history!?!

I don't expect everyone to have a Jeff Marek like memory, but I can't find another one as disappointing as the 2003 draft. They opted to go off the board despite good, known and ranked players being available.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 07:58 PM
I don't expect everyone to have a Jeff Marek like memory, but I can't find another one as disappointing as the 2003 draft. They opted to go off the board despite good, known and ranked players being available.

That really set the team back actually because most of those guys are top players on their teams today. It sucks

Puck Head
07-25-2014, 08:46 PM
He was a huge reach at 10 and they already said he would take a few years to develop. Plus an injury slowed him down a little. I dont see how that is a disappointment

Next season will be his 5th since being drafted.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 09:31 PM
Next season will be his 5th since being drafted.

So? Some players take longer than others, he also had an injury. No need to rush the kid. He's only 22 years old

fletch
07-25-2014, 09:47 PM
Personally, I'd have to mention Eric Lindros. Solid first season, OK second season, then more concussion issues. Great career.... but I remember thinking that we might be getting a superstar that had worn out his welcome in Philadelphia. Lindros just couldn't keep healthy (unfortunately).

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 09:48 PM
Personally, I'd have to mention Eric Lindros. Solid first season, OK second season, then more concussion issues. Great career.... but I remember thinking that we might be getting a superstar that had worn out his welcome in Philadelphia. Lindros just couldn't keep healthy (unfortunately).

He is one I considered.

AmericanJesus
07-25-2014, 09:51 PM
Kreider was drafted the year before McIlrath and just had his first successful regular season. Miller was drafted the year after and still hasn't had a successful NHL season. Both are forwards. McIlrath is the exact type of D that takes the longest to develop. Plus he had a bad injury.

He may be a disappointment depending on your expectation, but calling him one of the biggest in Rangers history is objectively untrue atleast until he fails to ever play successfully at the NHL level.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 09:52 PM
Personally, I'd have to mention Eric Lindros. Solid first season, OK second season, then more concussion issues. Great career.... but I remember thinking that we might be getting a superstar that had worn out his welcome in Philadelphia. Lindros just couldn't keep healthy (unfortunately).

How about Bure? Look at those 2 years. Imagine he stayed healthy those years?

Captain Clutch
07-25-2014, 09:52 PM
Chris higgins

josh
07-25-2014, 10:13 PM
If you actually told us what this was about, it could be a pretty decent thread. Too bad.


Answer is Kovalev. Wins a cup in his second season, and look what he did outside of NY.

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 10:15 PM
If you actually told us what this was about, it could be a pretty decent thread. Too bad.


Answer is Kovalev. Wins a cup in his second season, and look what he did outside of NY.

If I could tell you I would.

josh
07-25-2014, 10:23 PM
... deja vu of third grade...

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 10:28 PM
Trust me I wish I could post why here but soon enough it may reveal itself. Then I can go into more detail.

The Dude
07-25-2014, 10:30 PM
I am going to try and use a well known name. The bolded will help me for another category though.


Agreed. Maybe throw in Bure, only due to injury.

The Dude
07-25-2014, 10:34 PM
McIlrath? The kid played 2 NHL games. How is he a disappointment?

Agreed. I still think hes going to be a solid player. He has a lot of what it takes. Thinking this year he shuts a lot of people up.

The Dude
07-25-2014, 10:38 PM
Chris higgins

Yeah. Yeah. I thought playing in NY, would be perfect for this guy. What a flounder.

The Dude
07-25-2014, 10:47 PM
Richards
Kaminsky
Ulanov
Ulf Samuelsson
Olcyck ( sp?)

ThirtyONE
07-25-2014, 10:56 PM
As a first rounder, in that class, that high, to only have played 2 games?

It's not like his career is over. It hasn't started. Not sure you're not just pushing your agenda on this one. LOTS of dissapointing players in HISTORY. A 21 year old kid is not one of them

josh
07-25-2014, 10:58 PM
It's not like his career is over. It hasn't started. Not sure you're not just pushing your agenda on this one. LOTS of dissapointing players in HISTORY. A 21 year old kid is not one of them

Dan Blackburn disagrees.

josh
07-25-2014, 10:59 PM
Yeah it isn't even for that. No need to get snippy. Others played along so I don't see why it is an issue.

If you come
Out and say "I plan on doing an elimination tournament" you'll get more interest and better response.

!br-avery!
07-25-2014, 11:27 PM
Valeri kamensky
Lucky luc robitaille
Chris dreary
Brian scrubland
Mike Keane

CreaseCrusader91
07-25-2014, 11:29 PM
Valeri kamensky
Lucky luc robitaille
Chris dreary
Brian scrubland
Mike Keane

Thanks. Kamensky and Robitaille are good ones for sure.

RangersFan
07-25-2014, 11:51 PM
It's not like his career is over. It hasn't started. Not sure you're not just pushing your agenda on this one. LOTS of dissapointing players in HISTORY. A 21 year old kid is not one of them

Repped. Lets give the kid a chance

lefty9
07-25-2014, 11:53 PM
how do we pick dylan mcirath ahead of ken hodge,i think we also have to reach a little further back to really see some of rangers big disapointments

Drew a Penalty
07-26-2014, 12:35 AM
He was a huge reach at 10 and they already said he would take a few years to develop. Plus an injury slowed him down a little. I dont see how that is a disappointment

Previously I would defend McIlrath, but Pete is right. McIlrath hasn't shown much of anything and is really our third best defensive prospect despite having been in the system the longest and having been picked the highest. Knee injury aside, he's a disappointment. It's actually tough to figure out where he fits in the overall picture because he's not ready right now. These next two or so seasons are make or break for him and his chances don't look great.

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 12:42 AM
Previously I would defend McIlrath, but Pete is right. McIlrath hasn't shown much of anything and is really our third best defensive prospect despite having been in the system the longest and having been picked the highest. Knee injury aside, he's a disappointment. It's actually tough to figure out where he fits in the overall picture because he's not ready right now. These next two or so seasons are make or break for him and his chances don't look great.

Not really. He was slowed down by a bad injury but he was improving every year. We all knew he was a project so i'm not sure what people are expecting from him. If anything i say he can fit on the 3rd pairing within the next year and hopefully he can stay there so we can trade Klein. Have patience

josh
07-26-2014, 01:06 AM
McIlrath isnt a disappointment.

Drafting him at that time was the disappointment.

Pete
07-26-2014, 01:54 AM
It's not like his career is over. It hasn't started. Not sure you're not just pushing your agenda on this one. LOTS of dissapointing players in HISTORY. A 21 year old kid is not one of them

He's asking us today. Not in 20 years when his career is over.

Me voicing that some people may find McIlrath disappointing is pushing an agenda? Give it a rest. It's an opinion. You're entitled to yours, and I'm entitled to mine.

Drew a Penalty
07-26-2014, 04:22 AM
Not really. He was slowed down by a bad injury but he was improving every year. We all knew he was a project so i'm not sure what people are expecting from him. If anything i say he can fit on the 3rd pairing within the next year and hopefully he can stay there so we can trade Klein. Have patience

How is that not really? You've mentioned his knee injury already. As much that took out his development time, he hasn't nearly improved enough over the last four years of development to really warrant a roster spot right now. He can fit on the third pairing, but that doesn't mean he should. McIlrath has a very short time to really improve and I also don't think he's any better than his competition for a spot.

momentum
07-26-2014, 09:00 AM
For me it's Nash so far.
I had sky high expectations of him and he has come up way short so far.
He still has a chance to make up for it I guess though.

Niko
07-26-2014, 09:32 AM
Besides from the gimmes already listed:

Tom Poti had 1 good season for us after being touted as the next Leetch.

Christian Dube, Jamie Lundmark and Manny Malholtra (though poor development may be to blame when first rounders that are picked top 10 fail)

Prucha bc I loved him and thought he had more skill than he really did based off those two great seasons.

Then there are the Russians, zherdev, grachev, frolov, etc.

Michael Sauer and Cherapanov for obvious reasons, obviously awful situations neither could control.

Dr. Jimmy
07-26-2014, 10:43 AM
Redden
Gomez
Drury

AmericanJesus
07-26-2014, 11:37 AM
From the dark ages there was. .. I'm going to butcher his name. ..Daniel Genaux or something that looked like we had finally maybe found a diamond in the rough but he turned out to be just another lump of coal. That disappointed me.

Captain Clutch
07-26-2014, 11:52 AM
Yeah. Yeah. I thought playing in NY, would be perfect for this guy. What a flounder.

He was just awful here, went on the play a lot better with the Canucks.

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 12:27 PM
How is that not really? You've mentioned his knee injury already. As much that took out his development time, he hasn't nearly improved enough over the last four years of development to really warrant a roster spot right now. He can fit on the third pairing, but that doesn't mean he should. McIlrath has a very short time to really improve and I also don't think he's any better than his competition for a spot.

If you say so.

JOHN
07-26-2014, 01:06 PM
So? Some players take longer than others, he also had an injury. No need to rush the kid. He's only 22 years old

A defenseman taken at 10 needs to a least project out to being a top pairing guy. He barely projects as a third pairing right now.

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 02:04 PM
A defenseman taken at 10 needs to a least project out to being a top pairing guy. He barely projects as a third pairing right now.

Tell that to Sather and co for drafting him.

JOHN
07-26-2014, 02:06 PM
Tell that to Sather and co for drafting him.

Sure, and I agree, but just because someone is drafted where they shouldn't be doesn't make them any less disappointing.

NYR2711
07-26-2014, 02:29 PM
Qunital will always be my number 1 disappointment, especially when he back stabbed us to the Montreal Press. I would also add Lefebvre, Poti, Pilon, Cullen, Driver, Skrudland, Kamensky, Malakov, Anson Carter, Aaron Ward, Redden, Kotalik, Higgins, Gilroy and Frolov. I would also say Dawes, only because I though he was gonna be someone special for us, and he wasn't. Now I am depressed with all the free agents we struck out with.

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 03:38 PM
Sure, and I agree, but just because someone is drafted where they shouldn't be doesn't make them any less disappointing.

If thats how you feel dude. Agree to disagree

momentum
07-26-2014, 04:27 PM
Qunital will always be my number 1 disappointment, especially when he back stabbed us to the Montreal Press. I would also add Lefebvre, Poti, Pilon, Cullen, Driver, Skrudland, Kamensky, Malakov, Anson Carter, Aaron Ward, Redden, Kotalik, Higgins, Gilroy and Frolov. I would also say Dawes, only because I though he was gonna be someone special for us, and he wasn't. Now I am depressed with all the free agents we struck out with.

Quintal was indeed a giant asshole, but he falls into my category of most hated ever, not most disappointing.

Puck Head
07-26-2014, 04:28 PM
My disappointment in the Mcilrath pick isn't that he's still not in the NHL.
Although it looks like we are going into his 5th season since him being drafted and still not being NHL ready.

Issue is that since being drafted, he has not lived up to the hype of a 1st round pick, let alone a top 10 pick.
Dominating Jr's, WJC, NCAA dominance, etc. These are things at least Miller, Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh, etc did since being drafted.
Even Fast and Lindberg.

And most disappointing, is that a number 6 defenseman in the NHL appears to be his ceiling.

NYR2711
07-26-2014, 04:31 PM
Quintal was indeed a giant asshole, but he falls into my category of most hated ever, not most disappointing.

He was terrible here, and only came here for the money. He was overpaid,didn't perform here like he should have and didn't deserve that contract.

!br-avery!
07-26-2014, 04:37 PM
From the dark ages there was. .. I'm going to butcher his name. ..Daniel Genaux or something that looked like we had finally maybe found a diamond in the rough but he turned out to be just another lump of coal. That disappointed me.
Daniel Goneau ,#16 lol
Good one,came out on fire and we thought he was something to get excited about
Nevertheless ,flash in the pan

Puck Head
07-26-2014, 04:44 PM
Christian Dube was my first big disappointment, (had just became Rangers fan).

momentum
07-26-2014, 04:45 PM
He was terrible here, and only came here for the money. He was overpaid,didn't perform here like he should have and didn't deserve that contract.

Quintal is one player I would like to knock out if I ever ran into him on the street.

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 08:15 PM
My disappointment in the Mcilrath pick isn't that he's still not in the NHL.
Although it looks like we are going into his 5th season since him being drafted and still not being NHL ready.

Issue is that since being drafted, he has not lived up to the hype of a 1st round pick, let alone a top 10 pick.
Dominating Jr's, WJC, NCAA dominance, etc. These are things at least Miller, Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh, etc did since being drafted.
Even Fast and Lindberg.

And most disappointing, is that a number 6 defenseman in the NHL appears to be his ceiling.

Calling a 22 year old kid a disappointment is a bit overboard imo. He was a project and they knew he would take long to develop. You mentioned all forwards who dominated those leagues, other than McDonagh. McIlrath isnt an offensive dman, he is supposed to be a crease clearer who is nasty, and he isnt a bad skater either. Out of all the losers we drafted, McIlrath gets the disappointment label and its just wrong imo. Give the kid a chance, just because he isnt playing when you want him to doesnt make him bad. Its obvious the NYR feel different about him.

And i didnt even like the pick because who the hell picks a project dman at #10 when there were good players on the board? At the time the team had different needs so it was understandable and back then i guess they felt ok with a project since we had Sauer in the mix too who would still be on this team today if he didnt get hit that one game. Time will tell if he is a disappointment but he is only 22, lots of dmen start late. I can name 5 picks that are worse than McIlrath

skunkman
07-26-2014, 08:21 PM
anyone mention all the old nasty fighters we signed that when we got them were not old and nasty but just old?

Captain Clutch
07-26-2014, 08:51 PM
Nigel Dawes. I thought he'd be a constant producing 3rd line winger. He became a dud

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 09:05 PM
Nigel Dawes. I thought he'd be a constant producing 3rd line winger. He became a dud

Dawes wasnt that bad actually. He produced good for a 3rd liner. 14 goals and 29 points in 61 games in 08 and 10 goals in 09. Didnt do anything in Phoenix but had 32 points in 66 games for Calgary. Wasnt the worst imo

RangersFan
07-26-2014, 09:13 PM
And for me, Zherdev was a huge disappointment. Put up 58 points in his first year with us and completely disappeared in the playoffs but he didnt just disappear, it was like he wasnt even on the ice. Then he left of course. I really thought we had a winger for the future with him.

Prucha was another one. I remember in 09 when Renney tried everything he could to get Prucha going but it just wouldnt happen. I thought he would stick and become a 15-20 goal scorer after his other seasons but he just died out on us.

Bure. If he was healthy he would have put up 55-60 goals both years he was here.

Redden disgusted me. I still have flashbacks of that game 7 against Washington when he was on Fedorov and he just fucking stopped and let him get a nice shot on Hank. Unbelievable.

James Lionel Price
07-27-2014, 12:48 AM
How about Bure? Look at those 2 years. Imagine he stayed healthy those years?


Yes they were both huge disappointments. For me it was more Bure. For some reason, I thought we were getting a healthy Bure, which would probably have constituted 1 of the very best players we have ever or will ever have (at wing).

The way the media is, you might want to get disappointed with some kids but kids have no guarantees as to their staying power and success.

Bure was so good the first few games he got here. And we had flirted with trading for him for so long, it was painful.

momentum
07-27-2014, 08:49 AM
Yes they were both huge disappointments. For me it was more Bure. For some reason, I thought we were getting a healthy Bure, which would probably have constituted 1 of the very best players we have ever or will ever have (at wing).

The way the media is, you might want to get disappointed with some kids but kids have no guarantees as to their staying power and success.

Bure was so good the first few games he got here. And we had flirted with trading for him for so long, it was painful.I already considered Bure past his prime due to all the injuries by the time we got him so it wasn't a huge surprise to me that what happened, not a HUGE disappointment because my expectations weren't that great, same as with Lindros, you just knew they just didn't have much left in them by the time they got here.

Bugg
07-27-2014, 08:15 PM
Kovalev comes to mind. The guy had incredible raw talent. And he simply never put it all together.

When EA made "NHL 94" NeiL Smith was a consultant on evaluating players, and he having drafted and signe Kovalev made him all world. But you cannot account for him being a knuckelead. Once Mike Keenan left him out for a very long shift trying to get his attention, and this idiot not only didn't get the message but thought it was really Keenan showing great confidence in him. If you play full seasons of "94" Kovalev totally cleans up in every stat category. But again the game could never account for his inability to put it together as happened in real life here. He did in fact have a very productive and long career, even being the Habs' captain for a time. But he could've been so much more. And odd thing-by all accounts a decent sort, not a bad guy at all.You would expect someone like this to be major DB, and he isn't.

Slobberknocker
07-27-2014, 08:38 PM
don murdoch

Flynn
07-27-2014, 10:31 PM
Bernie Nicholls
Bobby Carpenter
Petr Nedved (1st stint)

Mike
07-27-2014, 10:44 PM
Big names that were brought here like Robitaille, Carpenter, LaFleur, Nicholls, etc... didn't play more than 2 seasons here, some only played 1. That was more of a disappointment than their actual performance. Not given much of a chance. They weren't put in easy situations. Win us a cup now, or gtfoh. Not fair.

richterforever
07-28-2014, 10:54 AM
Players: Zherdev, Blackburn, Redden, and Del Zotto. Coach: Colin Campbell. He had the highest payroll team in the league and couldnt even get them into the playoffs. Probably the worst year in recent memory.

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 11:09 AM
Calling a 22 year old kid a disappointment is a bit overboard imo. He was a project and they knew he would take long to develop. You mentioned all forwards who dominated those leagues, other than McDonagh. McIlrath isnt an offensive dman, he is supposed to be a crease clearer who is nasty, and he isnt a bad skater either. Out of all the losers we drafted, McIlrath gets the disappointment label and its just wrong imo. Give the kid a chance, just because he isnt playing when you want him to doesnt make him bad. Its obvious the NYR feel different about him.

And i didnt even like the pick because who the hell picks a project dman at #10 when there were good players on the board? At the time the team had different needs so it was understandable and back then i guess they felt ok with a project since we had Sauer in the mix too who would still be on this team today if he didnt get hit that one game. Time will tell if he is a disappointment but he is only 22, lots of dmen start late. I can name 5 picks that are worse than McIlrath

We have a bad draft record, but the reason so many feel McIlrath is so disappointing is because he was drafted so high, and hasn't improved. HE still struggles in the AHL. Had he been a 5th, 6th or 7th rounder, your right we wouldn't be talking like this, but he wasn't. Whether he should or shouldn't have been a first rounder isn't the question. He was, and there is a certain expectation for him to be ready at this point. He has been passed in the Rangers prospect depth chart, and many of us feel he isn't gonna make it. He needs to be a number 4 or 5 defensemen, not hoping he becomes a number 6 defensemen. Right now, I would move him in a heartbeat if someone wanted him in a trade, because I personally don't see him ever becoming something good in the NHL. If he does, thats great, but my gut tells me he won't.

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 11:12 AM
Big names that were brought here like Robitaille, Carpenter, LaFleur, Nicholls, etc... didn't play more than 2 seasons here, some only played 1. That was more of a disappointment than their actual performance. Not given much of a chance. They weren't put in easy situations. Win us a cup now, or gtfoh. Not fair.

How is that not fair? Thats what they are brought here to do. Its the same as them saying if your not giving me the most money, then I am out of here. Their job is to win the cup, not just collect a pay check. The problem is that these guys took big salaries to come here, knowing they couldn't live up to the contracts they signed here and knowing they were at the tail end of their careers. Look at Naslund, he knew he wash finishing that contract and was going to retire before it ran out. He came here for the money.

Pete
07-28-2014, 11:23 AM
I don't think any athlete "knows" they can't live up to a contract. Drury got his contract after pushing 40 goals twice...Do you think he thought he was going to get worse?

The only guy I can think of who knew he wasn't worth the money was Holik.

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 11:26 AM
But most athletes now only go for the most money. Im also pretty sure redden knew he wasn't getting better when he signed that contract. My point was that its not unfair to expect players who sign a big contract to come here and win a cup. With the payrolls this team has had, we should have won many more times than we have. I have no problems telling someone they aren't welcome back if they can't perform.

Future
07-28-2014, 11:32 AM
I don't have much of a historical perspective, but there can't possibly be a bigger draft failure than Jessiman. Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook, Parise, Getslaf, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler, and Corey Perry were all taken after him in that round.

Pete
07-28-2014, 11:32 AM
But most athletes now only go for the most money. Im also pretty sure redden knew he wasn't getting better when he signed that contract. My point was that its not unfair to expect players who sign a big contract to come here and win a cup. With the payrolls this team has had, we should have won many more times than we have. I have no problems telling someone they aren't welcome back if they can't perform.

Players ask for what they want and owners/GMs have to agree. Blame Sather.

If anyone, in any job, asked for double their salary and their employer gave it to them, it isn't going to make them twice as productive. People are who they are. Especially 30 year old hockey players.

Future
07-28-2014, 12:08 PM
We have a bad draft record, but the reason so many feel McIlrath is so disappointing is because he was drafted so high, and hasn't improved. HE still struggles in the AHL. Had he been a 5th, 6th or 7th rounder, your right we wouldn't be talking like this, but he wasn't. Whether he should or shouldn't have been a first rounder isn't the question. He was, and there is a certain expectation for him to be ready at this point. He has been passed in the Rangers prospect depth chart, and many of us feel he isn't gonna make it. He needs to be a number 4 or 5 defensemen, not hoping he becomes a number 6 defensemen. Right now, I would move him in a heartbeat if someone wanted him in a trade, because I personally don't see him ever becoming something good in the NHL. If he does, thats great, but my gut tells me he won't.
How often do you watch him play?

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 12:18 PM
How often do you watch him play?

Obviously not at all. Some people see he was drafted 10th and only played 2 games and automatically think he sucks.

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 12:19 PM
We have a bad draft record, but the reason so many feel McIlrath is so disappointing is because he was drafted so high, and hasn't improved. HE still struggles in the AHL. Had he been a 5th, 6th or 7th rounder, your right we wouldn't be talking like this, but he wasn't. Whether he should or shouldn't have been a first rounder isn't the question. He was, and there is a certain expectation for him to be ready at this point. He has been passed in the Rangers prospect depth chart, and many of us feel he isn't gonna make it. He needs to be a number 4 or 5 defensemen, not hoping he becomes a number 6 defensemen. Right now, I would move him in a heartbeat if someone wanted him in a trade, because I personally don't see him ever becoming something good in the NHL. If he does, thats great, but my gut tells me he won't.
Wrong about alot of things dude. You would trade him so he can go and be a good defenseman somewhere else, its the typical NYR way

Slobberknocker
07-28-2014, 12:20 PM
Drury was disappointing. That being said noone was probably more upset about it than him. That guy had a good heart.

Pete
07-28-2014, 12:21 PM
Obviously not at all. Some people see he was drafted 10th and only played 2 games and automatically think he sucks.

How do you know how often NYR2711 watched anyone? I"m not saying he did, I'm saying the question wasn't directed at you and you have no business answering it sarcastically.


Wrong about alot of things dude. You would trade him so he can go and be a good defenseman somewhere else, its the typical NYR way

And if it's his opinion that he's disappointed, then you have no right to tell him it's wrong.

DiJock94
07-28-2014, 12:21 PM
Petr Prucha
Theo Fleury
Pavel Bure

Pete
07-28-2014, 12:23 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would think Prucha was disappointing.

Thump23
07-28-2014, 12:52 PM
FA - Holik
Homegrown - Kovalev. Guy was so ridiculously talented.

Puck Head
07-28-2014, 12:58 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would think Prucha was disappointing.

I would almost think the opposite.
Kind of like Todd Harvey.

Zero expectations, yet came here and kicked ass. Only disappointment would be that Prucha didn't turn out to be a franchise forward.
But considering draft position, contract, etc.....we should feel lucky with what we got out of him.

Pete
07-28-2014, 01:00 PM
I would almost think the opposite.
Kind of like Todd Harvey.

Zero expectations, yet came here and kicked ass. Only disappointment would be that Prucha didn't turn out to be a franchise forward.
But considering draft position, contract, etc.....we should feel lucky with what we got out of him.

Kinda how I feel...Was never a big scorer in Euro leagues, but capitalized playing with Jagr (something a bunch of other guys couldn't do), it's not his fault Shanny signed here and decided to become a RW after years on the left.

Puck Head
07-28-2014, 01:02 PM
Kinda how I feel...Was never a big scorer in Euro leagues, but capitalized playing with Jagr (something a bunch of other guys couldn't do), it's not his fault Shanny signed here and decided to become a RW after years on the left.

This is how I think of it.
I wish we had MORE Prucha's , (Hagelin comes to mind)...

And less Mcilrath's (Jessiman comes to mind).

Running away now before RangersFan starts yelling at me

:lol:

AmericanJesus
07-28-2014, 01:18 PM
This is how I think of it.
I wish we had MORE Prucha's , (Hagelin comes to mind)...

And less Mcilrath's (Jessiman comes to mind).

Running away now before RangersFan starts yelling at me

:lol:

I think comparing a 22 year old defensive prospect playing a top pair roll in the AHL to a 30 year old who played 2 NHL games and is now a KHL scrub is a little unfair.

Quite a few had labeled MZA a bust when he couldn't stick in the NHL at first and ended up back in the AHL in 11/12.

Pete
07-28-2014, 01:23 PM
I think comparing a 22 year old defensive prospect playing a top pair roll in the AHL to a 30 year old who played 2 NHL games and is now a KHL scrub is a little unfair.

Quite a few had labeled MZA a bust when he couldn't stick in the NHL at first and ended up back in the AHL in 11/12.

Dave, regardless of where McI is now, he still projects to be a lower-tier defender with little offense. Right now, that is a waste of a #10 pick.

Mike
07-28-2014, 01:25 PM
How is that not fair? Thats what they are brought here to do. Its the same as them saying if your not giving me the most money, then I am out of here. Their job is to win the cup, not just collect a pay check. The problem is that these guys took big salaries to come here, knowing they couldn't live up to the contracts they signed here and knowing they were at the tail end of their careers. Look at Naslund, he knew he wash finishing that contract and was going to retire before it ran out. He came here for the money.

Because 1 player doesn't win you a cup. 1 player could be a huge piece to the puzzle, but they can't do it alone. Through the years in NY, it's always been the next big name will get us there. You can't put that pressure on one individual. Just because they didn't win a cup doesn't mean they weren't worth their contract at that time. Some yes, some no, obviously. But a player is always considered a disappointment here when they weren't given a fair chance. The Ranger locker room was flipped every year. You can't expect 1 all-star player to come in and win the cup. All of those players were here for 2 seasons or less. Remember people calling for Messier's head after the 92-93 season? That was only his 2nd year here. Constant change of leadership, and key players that fill key roles will never lead to success. There has to be a core, and a base, and then you fill the pieces in where necessary. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You can say it rarely works if a Cup is your only measure of success being that only 1 out of 30 teams wins it every year. It all depends on how someone wants to look at it. Imo, it depends on the team, and the direction they are going. The Jackets are getting better, this year was a success for them. The Wings, not so much. See where I'm going?

AmericanJesus
07-28-2014, 01:26 PM
People like to look at the Jessiman draft as the worst for us, but 1999 was pretty horrific.

We traded:
Marc Savard
Dan Cloutier
Nicklas Sundstrom
11th in 1999
1st in 2000 (8th overall)
3rd in 2000


We got:
Rights to Jan Hlavac
1999 #4 (Pavel Brendl)
1999 #9 (Jamie Lundmark)
1999 3rd (Craig Anderson)

Only thing that makes it less painful was it was probably the worst 1st round draft class outside of the Sedins in forever.

Mike
07-28-2014, 01:28 PM
Kinda how I feel...Was never a big scorer in Euro leagues, but capitalized playing with Jagr (something a bunch of other guys couldn't do), it's not his fault Shanny signed here and decided to become a RW after years on the left.

It's also not Shanny's fault that Prucha couldn't last anywhere else in the NHL after that. He was a flash in the pan. It happens all the time.

Pete
07-28-2014, 01:29 PM
It's also not Shanny's fault that Prucha couldn't last anywhere else in the NHL after that. He was a flash in the pan. It happens all the time.You're way too sensitive anytime the guy is mentioned dude, seriously. Did I blame Shanahan for anything? Fact is, he came in a Prucha's ice time, especially on the PP was cut, leading to a decline in production. That's just a fact. It's also a fact that Shanahan was a LW in DET and decided to play the right side here.

Mike
07-28-2014, 01:32 PM
You're way too sensitive anytime the guy is mentioned dude, seriously. Did I blame Shanahan for anything? Fact is, he came in a Prucha's ice time, especially on the PP was cut, leading to a decline in production. That's just a fact. It's also a fact that Shanahan was a LW in DET and decided to play the right side here.

And you're not sensitive about Prucha ??? At least I have a reason to defend the guy.

Right, but nothing is his fault in regards to Prucha.

Pete
07-28-2014, 01:34 PM
And you're not sensitive about Prucha ??? At least I have a reason to defend the guy.

Right, but nothing is his fault in regards to Prucha.

Yea, seven years ago. I'm not going down that road again.

Doesn't change the fact that you're overly sensitive anytime anyone mentions anything about the guy. You're even getting defensive now. For what reason? Because I said he decided to play right wing? LOL. Come on.

AmericanJesus
07-28-2014, 01:34 PM
Dave, regardless of where McI is now, he still projects to be a lower-tier defender with little offense. Right now, that is a waste of a #10 pick.

Doesn't matter. Jessiman projects to have his NHL career stand at 2 games played. If McIlrath ends up as a 12:00/game 6th defender who fights and does little else, but can stick in the league in that roll for a handful of years, he will be considered wildly more successful than Hugh Jessiman. It won't even be close.

As to projections, they change over time. We'll see where he ultimately ends up.

Pete
07-28-2014, 01:36 PM
Doesn't matter. Jessiman projects to have his NHL career stand at 2 games played. If McIlrath ends up as a 12:00/game 6th defender who fights and does little else, but can stick in the league in that roll for a handful of years, he will be considered wildly more successful than Hugh Jessiman. It won't even be close.

As to projections, they change over time. We'll see where he ultimately ends up.

I'm not comparing Jessiman to McIlrath, in my eyes they were both wastes of high picks. Add in Brendl.

The fact that McIlrath, may, one day, be Mike Komisarek doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

AmericanJesus
07-28-2014, 02:02 PM
I'm not comparing Jessiman to McIlrath, in my eyes they were both wastes of high picks. Add in Brendl.

The fact that McIlrath, may, one day, be Mike Komisarek doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

Well, to be fair, I was replying to Puck, not you. Puck Head, who has been calling the McIlrath pick the worst draft choice of the millennium since before Bettman put the 11th pick on the clock in that draft, has no right at all to call the pick disappointing to him.

Mike
07-28-2014, 02:05 PM
Yea, seven years ago. I'm not going down that road again.

Doesn't change the fact that you're overly sensitive anytime anyone mentions anything about the guy. You're even getting defensive now. For what reason? Because I said he decided to play right wing? LOL. Come on.

I wasn't being defensive. You're the one that assumed it because it was Shanny. It could have been anyone in that spot, and it still wouldn't have been their fault why Prucha didn't have success after that.

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:23 PM
How often do you watch him play?

I have seen him play a couple of times, and I have read a lot of the reports on him. Lots of reports are saying he still isn't ready for the NHL.


Obviously not at all. Some people see he was drafted 10th and only played 2 games and automatically think he sucks.


Wrong about alot of things dude. You would trade him so he can go and be a good defenseman somewhere else, its the typical NYR way

And how many times have you seen him play? What am I wrong about as well? Your quick to jump on everyone who is basically saying the same exact thing, yet we are all wrong, so what are we wrong on? Where is your proof we are wrong? Its not the typical NYR way to trade a guy who is melting away in our system. The guy has been passed by every defensive prospect in the depth chart. Every report still says he isn't ready for the NHL, so what makes your opinion so much better? Its not hard to watch and read about players mow a days.

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:28 PM
I have seen him play a couple of times, and I have read a lot of the reports on him. Lots of reports are saying he still isn't ready for the NHL.


Where is your proof? You have no clue what youre talking about. Who passed him on the depth chart?




And how many times have you seen him play? What am I wrong about as well? Your quick to jump on everyone who is basically saying the same exact thing, yet we are all wrong, so what are we wrong on? Where is your proof we are wrong? Its not the typical NYR way to trade a guy who is melting away in our system. The guy has been passed by every defensive prospect in the depth chart. Every report still says he isn't ready for the NHL, so what makes your opinion so much better? Its not hard to watch and read about players mow a days.

I never said my opinion was right gut you guys are calling him a disappointment when he barely played any NHL games yet. Its just not fair to call him a bust yet. Just because he didnt make the team when you wanted him to doesnt make him a bust

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:33 PM
Because 1 player doesn't win you a cup. 1 player could be a huge piece to the puzzle, but they can't do it alone. Through the years in NY, it's always been the next big name will get us there. You can't put that pressure on one individual. Just because they didn't win a cup doesn't mean they weren't worth their contract at that time. Some yes, some no, obviously. But a player is always considered a disappointment here when they weren't given a fair chance. The Ranger locker room was flipped every year. You can't expect 1 all-star player to come in and win the cup. All of those players were here for 2 seasons or less. Remember people calling for Messier's head after the 92-93 season? That was only his 2nd year here. Constant change of leadership, and key players that fill key roles will never lead to success. There has to be a core, and a base, and then you fill the pieces in where necessary. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You can say it rarely works if a Cup is your only measure of success being that only 1 out of 30 teams wins it every year. It all depends on how someone wants to look at it. Imo, it depends on the team, and the direction they are going. The Jackets are getting better, this year was a success for them. The Wings, not so much. See where I'm going?

I get what your saying, but its also not like we had teams that didn't have a number of good players and fail miserably. Look at "The Dark Years", those teams shouldn't have been on the outside of the playoffs, they had tons of talent, and failed to make the playoffs. Hell, the FLY line was one of the top lines in the league, and we still couldn't get in. My issue was that we just handed money out to a lot of these guys that shouldn't have been given bloated contracts. Yes some guys didn't get a fair chance, but most never panned out. IMO, there are very few guys that deserved to be re-signed and weren't. A lot of it is mismanagement, but a lot is also on the players for not playing how they need or should have. We can all agree that this is a country club, and players want to be here for that reason, and we need someone to change that school of thought about this team. Sather isn't that guy, don't know about AV yet. I just don't feel bad when guys weren't given a second chance or second contract when they didn't perform here. We have see to many FA duds come through here.

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:35 PM
I get what your saying, but its also not like we had teams that didn't have a number of good players and fail miserably. Look at "The Dark Years", those teams shouldn't have been on the outside of the playoffs, they had tons of talent, and failed to make the playoffs. Hell, the FLY line was one of the top lines in the league, and we still couldn't get in. My issue was that we just handed money out to a lot of these guys that shouldn't have been given bloated contracts. Yes some guys didn't get a fair chance, but most never panned out. IMO, there are very few guys that deserved to be re-signed and weren't. A lot of it is mismanagement, but a lot is also on the players for not playing how they need or should have. We can all agree that this is a country club, and players want to be here for that reason, and we need someone to change that school of thought about this team. Sather isn't that guy, don't know about AV yet. I just don't feel bad when guys weren't given a second chance or second contract when they didn't perform here. We have see to many FA duds come through here.
Talent doesnt mean anything if the team doesnt work together and have chemistry. Just because a team looks good on paper doesnt mean a thing. Messier, Lindros, Leetch on the same team look excellent but it didnt work out at all

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:38 PM
I never said my opinion was right gut you guys are calling him a disappointment when he barely played any NHL games yet. Its just not fair to call him a bust yet. Just because he didnt make the team when you wanted him to doesnt make him a bust

You are saying it without being so blunt about it. Saying I myself have never saw him play is 100% wrong because you know nothing about me Have you ever seen him play besides his two NHL games, and outside of preseason? I have, I go to at least 1 pack game a year, and I watch games online when I get a chance, and I read reports that come out on these guys. What do you do? You like to call people out for what they post, so now answer me if you have seen him play? When every report coming out on the guy is that he is a couple of seasons out, for a first rounder at the 10th pick in 2010, there is a huge cause for concern. Just because you don't feel that way, doesn't mean everyone else can't.

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:39 PM
Talent doesnt mean anything if the team doesnt work together and have chemistry. Just because a team looks good on paper doesnt mean a thing. Messier, Lindros, Leetch on the same team look excellent but it didnt work out at all

Yes, but with a high payroll on a team, you expect more. Wit ha $70M payroll, I expect to make the playoffs. I don't know, maybe we have different expectations.

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:41 PM
You are saying it without being so blunt about it. Saying I myself have never saw him play is 100% wrong because you know nothing about me Have you ever seen him play besides his two NHL games, and outside of preseason? I have, I go to at least 1 pack game a year, and I watch games online when I get a chance, and I read reports that come out on these guys. What do you do? You like to call people out for what they post, so now answer me if you have seen him play? When every report coming out on the guy is that he is a couple of seasons out, for a first rounder at the 10th pick in 2010, there is a huge cause for concern. Just because you don't feel that way, doesn't mean everyone else can't.

Ok do what you want dude, you have your opinion and i have mine

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Yes, but with a high payroll on a team, you expect more. Wit ha $70M payroll, I expect to make the playoffs. I don't know, maybe we have different expectations.

It doesnt always work that way. You can expect it all you want but anything can happen in hockey

Pete
07-28-2014, 02:43 PM
I wasn't being defensive. You're the one that assumed it because it was Shanny. It could have been anyone in that spot, and it still wouldn't have been their fault why Prucha didn't have success after that.

Even you? ;)

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:45 PM
Ok do what you want dude, you have your opinion and i have mine

Yes, but Im not the one who always says your dead wrong when I have a differing opinion. And that still doesn't change the fact that you are saying I have never seen him play when you know nothing about me. So once again, how many times have you seen him play outside of the 2 NHL games he has had and any preseason action he has had here?

NYR2711
07-28-2014, 02:46 PM
It doesnt always work that way. You can expect it all you want but anything can happen in hockey

It has happened many times. Look at Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA.

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:47 PM
Yes, but Im not the one who always says your dead wrong when I have a differing opinion. And that still doesn't change the fact that you are saying I have never seen him play when you know nothing about me. So once again, how many times have you seen him play outside of the 2 NHL games he has had and any preseason action he has had here?
Ive watched videos of him, some games too. You have your opinion and i have mine

RangersFan
07-28-2014, 02:47 PM
It has happened many times. Look at Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA.

You can have an 8 million dollar payroll, there is no guarantee for anything

Mike
07-28-2014, 03:00 PM
Even you? ;)

I can't throw the sauce that good.

The Dude
07-28-2014, 06:49 PM
You're way too sensitive anytime the guy is mentioned dude, seriously. Did I blame Shanahan for anything? Fact is, he came in a Prucha's ice time, especially on the PP was cut, leading to a decline in production. That's just a fact. It's also a fact that Shanahan was a LW in DET and decided to play the right side here.

That drove me absolutely nuts.
I bitched and moaned about this magical switch to RW.
Prucha was a PP specialist, and was just dropped from the PP.

Never got why they never tried Shanny as a center. Thats where he started his career wasnt it?

Captain Clutch
07-28-2014, 09:16 PM
Renney destroyed Prucha's career. He was young and just killed his confidence by using Shanahan in his place and Shanny didn't really work with Jagr well.

!br-avery!
07-29-2014, 01:08 AM
Blame Jägr then,didn't he coach the team ?
Prucha had a ton of heart but a one hit wonder

Mike
07-29-2014, 06:15 AM
Renney destroyed Prucha's career. He was young and just killed his confidence by using Shanahan in his place and Shanny didn't really work with Jagr well.

The only thing Renney destroyed was our chance at a cup in 06/07 when he put Jagr, Nylander, and Straka on the ice with a minute left, up by 1 goal in game 5.

momentum
07-29-2014, 06:30 AM
I would almost think the opposite.
Kind of like Todd Harvey.

Zero expectations, yet came here and kicked ass. Only disappointment would be that Prucha didn't turn out to be a franchise forward.
But considering draft position, contract, etc.....we should feel lucky with what we got out of him.

Todd Harvey man...I loved that guy...I was so pissed when he was traded....god dammit..this thread is making me depressed.